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Dan Stair doesn't want PSers?!

Batgirl76

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Aug 7, 2018
Messages
250
Oh, and I’m sure there are some people on PS who had to pay for ALL of their own college tuition because they didn’t even HAVE a father, even a poor one.

Borrowing from a famous quote, to these people, you were born on third base, or at the very least, second.
 
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arkieb1

Ideal_Rock
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Joined
May 11, 2012
Messages
9,502
Oh, and I’m sure there are some people on PS who had to pay for ALL of their college tuition because they didn’t even HAVE a father, even a poor one.
Yeah O.K I get that, my brother died when he was 6 and I'm their only living kid..... because they lived in remote rural Australia and I had to move to Sydney to go to University they helped me when I first moved out of home I also took a gap year between school and starting University - I worked as a receptionist in a doctor's office during the day and stacked supermarket shelves at night for a year to also help pay for everything, so if people find it offensive that I'm lucky enough that they helped me when I first moved away from them....I still think that says more about them than it does about me...

I can remember the days when my flatmate and I didn't have enough money to buy a loaf of bread to eat when I was at Uni, let alone have expensive jewellery. I knew plenty of students that lived at home with their parents and their parents paid for everything while they were at University and I don't recall ever feeling envious of that. I do recall missing my family when I first moved away from home.

When I moved out of home my parents gave me money and both said they were so excited I was going to University and to be given the opportunity to do all the things they were unable to do because both of my parents came from exceedingly poor backgrounds, my mother didn't even finish school, her mother insisted despite my mother being dux of her year that she quit school and get a job as soon as she was legally allowed to.

My father was also forced to leave school and gave everything he earned to his mother to help pay for things for his younger siblings.....

So yes they helped me, yes I understand not everyone gets that, I feel grateful for their help. Does that legitimise anyone else feeling angry or jealous that I was lucky enough to have two parents that thought that way? I simply was not brought up to think that way. If you have money and opportunities great, if you don't, you work for them. I don't see the point of sitting on your backside comparing yourself to everyone else and complaining about it.
 
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arkieb1

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 11, 2012
Messages
9,502
Sorry about your brother. That stinks.
Thank you. I understand it's human nature to compare, but I think of it like this, you never know what goes on behind closed doors or in other people's lives, someone who might post that they have two houses, on here might have a range of other issues going on in their lives, I've known seemingly wealthy woman and men that have cheating spouses, unhappy marriages, kids on drugs, money issues and a whole heap of stuff they have to deal with.

IG is full of people with seemingly perfect lives, but if you scratch the surface I'm sure you would find that much of that is a facade and isn't true.

I've never felt the need to measure or compare my own worth against anyone else. I'm sorry if anyone else feels the need to do so human nature or not. If people want to post pics of the inside of their houses, that they have two houses, or anything else that isn't jewellery related other than enjoying their photos I personally don't think anything else about it. I've reached a really zen place a long time ago where I really don't give a [email protected]#* so perhaps if anyone else is offended by these things they should try it, care less about other people, what they have and what they think of you and more about yourself.

"Borrowing from a famous quote, to these people, you were born on third base, or at the very least, second."

My mother grew up without a father, dirt poor and she wouldn't agree with your quote. I've know people that have come to Australia with nothing that work hard, and despite their personal circumstances, have become doctors, lawyers and successful business people, and I've known people that have been born into rich families that have been given every opportunity available to them that have become drug addicts and a few that are now dead.

I can only conclude from that, that it doesn't matter which base you were born on, if you get your head out of your own backside put it down and work hard, and not compare yourself to others or make excuses for your situation then you can achieve anything you want. I'm sure a lot of successful entrepreneurs out there would agree. They didn't get anywhere in life by sitting on their backsides having a pity party about what they don't have.
 
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NKOTB

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 5, 2011
Messages
2,011
PS is a mix of people from a mix of backgrounds, yes some PSers have enough money to have expensive jewellery - this is after all a jewellery and gemstone forum.... I like looking at all jewellery and gemstones people have irrespective of how much they cost.

My poor white working class father came to this country with nothing, worked hard and paid for some (I paid for the rest) of my University education, my husband (also from a working class family) and I worked bloody hard for years for everything we own. So When other PSers and anyone else including vendors start throwing a public pity party that I or anyone else here am now middle class or that one person has more money and a better education than they do, I have little to no tolerance for that.

If people were born with money, I say good for them, if you live your life jealous of others wealth and personal circumstances then that says far more about you than it does about them. If you come to a jewellery and gemstone forum and have to compare yourself or feel resentment, they you should leave the forum...

We are on a forum that gives opinions about gemstones and diamonds, and jewellery, if some vendors do not like the opinions given here about their items then they need to grow a tougher skin. As I've said a number of times my sister in law and in laws own two different shops and work in the trade and they put up with, as far as I can see, far nastier stuff on a day to day basis from non PSers than many online vendors have to, including the ones that are doing the most complaining. So again, I have little to no sympathy for their unacceptable, unprofessional online meltdowns.

We all have personal stuff we have to deal with, we all have bad days, it doesn't excuse what equates to unprofessional, rude, jealous, classist, misogynistic rants online.
And some of us fluctuate. I started here feeling intimidated, with a relatively small budget, worried about browns and greys and “satisfying” certain members here (whom I appreciate, who give a lot of their time and energy to try to help - also this was my issue, I ultimately kept stones that I loved regardless of what anyone would think - that’s how you know a stone is right for you). My budget has generally increased (it has also had some big dips) over the years. The reality is, life can go either way. I heard once that a vendor used me as an example of why it might always be a good idea to relationship-build upfront. I was probably pretty annoying at first in terms of questions, and certainly made my fair share of returns at the beginning of my learning journey. I was curious and excited and anxious. Now, however, I ask very few questions and return almost none, if any, and refer new customers when I can. Obviously, being abusive or entitled or deliberately wasting someone’s time is not cool. But sometimes, when vendors have a little patience, it can also pay off in the long run.
 

arkieb1

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 11, 2012
Messages
9,502
In the beginning I’ve lost count of the amount of stones I kept that I didn’t like because I was afraid to return them to vendors. Some of them cost a lot of money some of them didn’t...

And I’ve been ripped off blind, lied to, been sent misleading photos, been ghosted, purchased a number of stones when sent to a lab were not as described... lost a considerable sum of money on a stone I returned that I never got my money back on. It works both ways there’s plenty of bad vendors that I’ve never bothered to name and shame out there as well.
 
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VapidLapid

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 18, 2010
Messages
4,267
wowsers.

When I had been reading PS for a little while, but still was a newish member, oh how much I thought I knew, but how poor was my estimation of my qualifications for judgments based on that knowledge. Still I looked, and bought, and posted, and said stupid things, and sometimes learned, other times just carried on. Though I don't come by here as much as I used to, all that is still true.

I remember feeling a sense of empowerment when newly on the consumer forum. The taking down of big corporate frauds (is that a redundant phrase?) ...could only be laudable. I made my somewhat embarrassing entry here doing just that, and one from which I had never bought! Whew! This isn't about me, or them, but I wanted to note the feeling of power an individual may feel being a (new) member of a group, regardless of the individual's qualifications. That, however, is not meant to imply that any individuals, whether seasoned, or newbies, right or wrong, should themselves be taken for representing, or speaking for the group to which they are perceived to belong.

Everyone comes here with differing wants, and needs, and all changing with time as well. Also the climate of the community changes like, well, climate. Individually we are human, but collectively we can be like El Nino, or equally La Nina. (Note to self: contact NOAA about making these terms neutral).

Even with a seemingly stable core, people come and go from the forum. Or they come and are strong voices for a time, and then fade away... and come back,,,and.. so it is possible for an individual's or some individuals' behavior to be seen as representing a larger pack, even when the larger pack may itself be a fictive figure.

I do not like that a vendor, respected or not, creates a published return policy that singles out a group, in this case Pricescope members, to deny them from the respect, and benefits offered to other, non-Pricescope member customers.

Many cut stone vendors, similarly to individual forum members, are human, not big corporate entities. They practice a largely solitary lapidary endeavor. Some have a storefront name, and others use their own to offer the results of their kind of lonely, and tedious work. Some stones are fantastic, some are mediocre, some suck, all are usually priced accordingly.

I have bought stones from Dan Stair. I have never returned any of them.

I have bought many stones from vendors on "the list". Only once did I try to return a disappointing stone to a vendor from whom I had made many purchases over the years (not Dan Stair). It was difficult, where I thought it would be easy. I had spent far over $10k in the two years prior. Some of my emails went unanswered, others got only curt replies. By the time he wrote allowing me to return the stone I didn't even bother. Two years later when I really liked another stone that was on his quasi-monthly mailing or "drop" I wrote asking about it. Of course it was already sold. Then he removed me from his mailing list, which he presumably had meant to do long before. I digress.

I think this thread is an interesting discussion. There are many perspectives, and experiences to be heard.
I like to think Dan Stair is an ok guy. I've never met him. I've heard other lapidarists say nice things about him. I can only imagine that he has had such a number of terrible experiences as a vendor that he finds himself needing to make, and state this policy. Also, I do think it is a terrible thing to have a separate policy for one group of people from the policy one offers to (other) people in general. I would think it to invite a class action. I hope that does not (need to) happen.

It seems sometimes that in working their ways up the the learning curve, many people use online vendors as source materials for their lessons, which then are regularly shared on the forum for the benefit of all, except perhaps for the vendor who was largely an unwitting participant in a spectator sport not unlike the Roman colluseum, which is not PS necessarily, just a metaphor for the workd today, especially as lived online. Still, consumers have a right to share, discuss and learn.

 

arkieb1

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 11, 2012
Messages
9,502
@VapidLapid - the sad part is if they don't learn here, where are they going to learn, vendors themselves confess they started as members here and have learnt a lot from this forum.

Perhaps a workable solution for everyone is that people post photos of gemstones and don't say who the vendor is, then people can give their opinions (because that is all this place is a number of different opinions) and the person can make their own minds up if they purchase the stone or not.

Believe it or not I'm not into vender bashing if I were I could have posted about a number of incidents with bad vendors over the years. I hold nothing against either vendor that started this post off other than the stuff they said on Facebook was unprofessional and completely unnecessary.

In fact, if Dan actually came here instead of posting that on Facebook and said, I've had to put these policies in place because x amount of PSers have messed me around lately in these ways, or described the issues he had with PSers and asked for solutions before he put that policy on his website and the rant on FB, I, and a heap of other PSers would probably have gone yes we have had similar experiences on Loupetroop. We are deeply sorry that a small number of PSers whomever they are are ruining your business and making you feel that way towards all PSers.

So with a little forethought and a bit of kindness from everyone this whole [email protected]#*show could have been avoided.
 
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chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 22, 2004
Messages
37,355
I thought that we already do our best to post photos of gemstones without naming the vendor? Unfortunately, many vendors have very distinctive photography styles so even if unnamed, most regulars know who the vendor is.

As part of my personal growth, I now try to comment with price taken into consideration as well as personal taste. It might not be trade preferred or intensely coloured but I ask to make sure that that's what the buyer wants. It's okay to want a gray stone if that's what the buyer wants as long as it is an informed decision. Maybe some inclusion is ok to bring the price down. Or maybe it's an interesting inclusion that won't affect the structural integrity.

It sort of disturbs me that wealth, gender and education are even brought up. As mentioned above, we come from all walks of life. It doesn't make one person "better" than another. Nobody should be putting anyone else down, period!
 

autumngems

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 24, 2003
Messages
1,448
Wow... is all I can say. Seeing how vendors post on FB about PS members makes you think about who you buy from.....
 

elle_chris

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 19, 2004
Messages
3,153
Came to this sub-forum looking for info. on sapphires then found this. WOW.

I can only imagine what they're saying on Reddit. I know some of the vendors are there and the posts I've seen about their competition are so nasty, so much underhanded manipulation to make customers question ethics and such. Just ugh..

I keep a list of who I'd never do business with, and thanks to this thread, have a few more to add.
 
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