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Dan Stair doesn't want PSers?!

MillieLou

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 27, 2020
Messages
60
Lurker here looking for a nice sapphire for an anniversary later this year. A well-cut stone is important to me and I saw Dan Stair's name being praised a lot. Just looked at his website and was really surprised to see this at the top of the homepage:


I searched but couldn't find a thread on this yet. How will he know who is a PSer and therefore who can't return items?!
 

voce

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 13, 2018
Messages
3,189
This is surprising to me. I guess he can tell because when someone tries to return a stone he can search these forums to see if we have posted a thread on it?

I've had nothing but good and cordial interactions with him. Didn't mention I was a member here or ask for more hand shots. I don't think my PS membership entitles me to anything, just wanted to be treated same as any other customer. And I understand that, even the hand shots vendors post online look different from my hand shots and how the gems look to me IRL.
 

Bron357

Ideal_Rock
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Jan 22, 2014
Messages
4,119
Wow.
I don’t know how he could identify PS members as we all have user names not our full names!
I don’t think his approach is sensible. It’s one thing to limit additional photos etc because of the time involved and he could be cutting gemstones but to “name and shame” a group of potential clients I would suggest is a poor business decision.
Further his name/ business has been promoted (for free) here on this forum by PSers who have bought from him.
PSers are one group who can and will buy loose gemstones, other than say jeweller makers/ artisans.
Not cool.
 

junebug17

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Jun 17, 2009
Messages
12,190
Whoa! Never seen anything quite like this! He seems pretty fed up with PSers. He's basically not interested in having them as customers anymore. Weird that he would turn down business this way but I guess he doesn't care.

@Bron357, good point on the free advertising...I wouldn't know who he was if it wasn't for PS.
 

arkieb1

Ideal_Rock
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Joined
May 11, 2012
Messages
9,537
There is a whole discussion on FB about the new rules on his website, that he posted where a lot of people in the trade bag out PSers and PS in general..... I see both sides of the argument, yes there are a few hard to please Psers and some that think it's O.K to get and return several stones at once and some that are just generally obnoxious and annoying to deal with. However, the majority of PSers I think are decent people so it saddens me when we all get labelled as being terrible from vendors.
 

mrs-b

Ideal_Rock
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Aug 18, 2013
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6,899
@arkieb1 - can you pls post a link to the discussion you refer to above?

The way it reads on his website, he'll take a return from someone else - just not someone from PriceScope??
 

whitewave

Ideal_Rock
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Feb 29, 2012
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9,639
PRICESCOPE MEMBERS - Due to my desire to concentrate on cutting more stones, I will no longer respond to your requests for additional photos and videos on the hand and in different lighting. Additionally, because of your high return rate (probably 25x normal) I will no longer sell spinels to members of Pricescope.com and any other sales to Pricescope members are final - no returns, no exceptions.



Maybe he should just ban the repeat offenders.
 

Rfisher

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 19, 2013
Messages
2,238
:|
There’s got to be more to the story.
This has been eluded to more than a few times here.
There’s got to be a middle ground.
Vendors can’t work for free.
but some vendors want customers to unequivocally like something just because they are told they should like it - because the vendor thinks it’s ‘really nice’
 
Last edited:

MillieLou

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 27, 2020
Messages
60
Thanks everyone. I really like his cutting but this has put me off, seems quite unprofessional. Why not just say he is unable to supply additional photos / videos, without naming a group?
 

pokerface

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 12, 2011
Messages
208
Aside from other concerns, I don't understand why he would refuse to sell spinels to PS members if he is also declaring all PS sales to be final. If he's stopped accepting returns, it wouldn't matter if spinels previously had been returned at a higher rate. Am I missing something here? :think:
 

dk168

Ideal_Rock
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Jul 7, 2013
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Spinels can look very different under different lighting conditions. I had experienced this myself.

I have yet to purchase from him, so not guilty!

I can appreciate where he is coming from. We as in PSers nearly always encourage potential buyers to request for more photos and to look for good return policy etc...

If I were a seller, I too would get fed up with demanding customers requesting extra photos and videos, for the sales not to go through for whatever reasons.

He has stated he T&Cs upfront, therefore it is up to us the consumers whether we agree to them or not.

DK :))
 

mtsapphirelovingannie

Shiny_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 27, 2015
Messages
351
There is a whole discussion on FB about the new rules on his website, that he posted where a lot of people in the trade bag out PSers and PS in general..... I see both sides of the argument, yes there are a few hard to please Psers and some that think it's O.K to get and return several stones at once and some that are just generally obnoxious and annoying to deal with. However, the majority of PSers I think are decent people so it saddens me when we all get labelled as being terrible from vendors.
Can you tell me were on FB. I'd like to read it. Is it Dan Stairs page?
 

voce

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 13, 2018
Messages
3,189
While it's dismaying to see him single PS out by name, I understand that he is not operating as a typical retailer. He wants to be a gem cutter first and foremost without having to deal with the pictures, return services retail vendors provide. Retail vendors provide those services by having a markup built into their businesses. Dan Stair charges wholesale prices, and he has very low margins. Maybe this is a buyer, beware situation if you are expecting to get the retail customer service. Don't buy from him expecting you might want to return.
 

whitewave

Ideal_Rock
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Feb 29, 2012
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9,639
While it's dismaying to see him single PS out by name, I understand that he is not operating as a typical retailer. He wants to be a gem cutter first and foremost without having to deal with the pictures, return services retail vendors provide. Retail vendors provide those services by having a markup built into their businesses. Dan Stair charges wholesale prices, and he has very low margins. Maybe this is a buyer, beware situation if you are expecting to get the retail customer service. Don't buy from him expecting you might want to return.
That makes sense.
 

junebug17

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Jun 17, 2009
Messages
12,190
To be honest, I kind of see both sides too...for him to take this step shows that some PSers have been really difficult and he doesn't want to deal with it anymore. That said, not all PSers behave in these ways and it's kind of unfair to paint all of us with the same brush.
 

mellowyellowgirl

Ideal_Rock
Premium
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May 17, 2014
Messages
3,506
Haha he sounds like he's had it up to his ears.

I can see his side and take no offense. He's peacing out as he's entitled to do. There's no right or wrong. If he's not going to cross the bridge he can torch it to his liking.

I try very hard not to even ask about things which I don't intend to buy and certainly will not buy half a dozen stones to stare at and then return. I cringe when people do that. I'm a firm believer that unless they've lied about the color or inclusions (my only return ever was due to a blatant lie) you should have an idea of what you want. Some people return based on "not feeling it". Would drive me crazy too!

I've never bothered selling my rings second hand simply because I don't want to deal with drama if the piece was not up to someone's expectations. Easier to give it away!
 

dk168

Ideal_Rock
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I seldom sell anything myself, as I too dislike the frigging drama and all the questions.

DK :))
 

whitewave

Ideal_Rock
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I seldom sell anything myself, as I too dislike the frigging drama and all the questions.

DK :))
I find if you sell with a good deal price, it makes for a quick and relatively painless transaction.
 

sarahb

Brilliant_Rock
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Jul 20, 2012
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1,903
His position is rather discriminating & for that alone, I wouldn't purchase from him. What an awful thing to put on his website. And even if I weren't a PSer, I'd be totally put off by his comment. Just my 2 cents.
 

dk168

Ideal_Rock
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Jul 7, 2013
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I find if you sell with a good deal price, it makes for a quick and relatively painless transaction.
I usually sell on eBay using Buy It Now with the option to make me an offer.

I got some sob stories why they could not offer me more and all that. If it is close to the minimum that I would accept, then I would say yes and get it over and done with.

DK :))
 

whitewave

Ideal_Rock
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Feb 29, 2012
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9,639
His position is rather discriminating & for that alone, I wouldn't purchase from him. What an awful thing to put on his website. And even if I weren't a PSer, I'd be totally put off by his comment. Just my 2 cents.
Well, we can feel about it however we like, but we can’t buy from Dan stair!! :mrgreen:
 

remetau

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 16, 2015
Messages
18
Sorry if I am out of place since I haven't purchased from Dan or posted here much, but I'm sorry purchasing online is hard enough, and if ýou can't offer additional photos, videos, and offer a decent return policy, then I can find other vendors in the preferred list who can.
 

dk168

Ideal_Rock
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He might have been too nice and accommodating in the past, and has wised up. Good on him I'd say.

DK :))
 

dk168

Ideal_Rock
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Jul 7, 2013
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5,644
Well, we can feel about it however we like, but we can’t buy from Dan stair!! :mrgreen:
That's not how I read it. Just no Spinels to PSers, and other sales to PSers are final with no return or exchange etc...

His stones are listed in one eBay seller's shop that I follow.

DK :))
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
10,524
I've been waiting for that FB discussion to come up here. It's a tricky issue and I see both sides. But I am sad that he won't offer returns or sell spinel to any members.
 

amoline

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 11, 2018
Messages
341
Fair enough, I suppose. Obviously he has made a business decision and found that his bottom line will be better off without PS than with it.

As a business owner, it would take a beyond serious event for me to accept the risk to all business by posting "No more returns for those from such and such group" - and clearly Dan has considered this, so one can only wish him all the best.
 
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