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Can someone provide a little design advice for my ring?

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decodelighted

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Date: 12/27/2006 9:37:07 PM
Author: Cehrabehra
Date: 12/27/2006 9:17:23 PM
Author: Dee*Jay
My fingers are crossed that he will be like, oh, yah, this is what *i* would do to fix this thing. and somehow it will be the *perfect* *easy* *feasible* solution.
Tell jack you want a ROUND HOLE in the square halo...
Respectfully ... I think it''s *WAY* too late for THAT solution ... unless DeeJay was willing to pay for an entirely new ring to be cast - along with DESIGN FEES for that modification which is a NEW request at this stage of the game. One they might not have chosen to execute (design??) if *that''s* what they thought they were contracted for. They agreed to make a ring they''d already made in the past (the one in the xerox pix). That''s what they quoted on ... that''s what they delivered.

I think Irina''s onto something ... and I am ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE that Kelege''s folks assumed the stone would be MUCH MUCH LOWER in that setting. They made that setting specifically FOR the measurements of that stone ... with split prongs ... it''s the local jeweler who''s messing the whole deal up IMHO.
 

Cehrabehra

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Date: 12/27/2006 9:52:28 PM
Author: decodelighted

Date: 12/27/2006 9:37:07 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

Date: 12/27/2006 9:17:23 PM
Author: Dee*Jay
My fingers are crossed that he will be like, oh, yah, this is what *i* would do to fix this thing. and somehow it will be the *perfect* *easy* *feasible* solution.
Tell jack you want a ROUND HOLE in the square halo...
Respectfully ... I think it''s *WAY* too late for THAT solution ... unless DeeJay was willing to pay for an entirely new ring to be cast - along with DESIGN FEES for that modification which is a NEW request at this stage of the game. One they might not have chosen to execute (design??) if *that''s* what they thought they were contracted for. They agreed to make a ring they''d already made in the past (the one in the xerox pix). That''s what they quoted on ... that''s what they delivered.

I think Irina''s onto something ... and I am ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE that Kelege''s folks assumed the stone would be MUCH MUCH LOWER in that setting. They made that setting specifically FOR the measurements of that stone ... with split prongs ... it''s the local jeweler who''s messing the whole deal up IMHO.
well I definitely don''t disagree with you - it might be too late, it is too late to have it done with forethought that''s for sure... and I do like the double prongs and I hope that and lowering it will be enough - I definitely agree to send it to JK.

What I''m not sure about is if the diamonds on the top were taken off, if it couldn''t be filled in somehow... of course I''m probably overly optimistic and it is unrealistic to think it would have any sort of sturdiness.... hmmm.... one thing is for sure, I''m more scared than ever to have my ring done!! lol If making sure the details you ask for are done well isn''t hard enough, trying to prepare for the things you forget to specify is horrifying!!!
 

mrssalvo

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Date: 12/27/2006 10:55:22 PM
Author: Cehrabehra
one thing is for sure, I''m more scared than ever to have my ring done!! lol If making sure the details you ask for are done well isn''t hard enough, trying to prepare for the things you forget to specify is horrifying!!!

I emailed deejay those exact same thoughts yesterday. I have yet to find the perfect setting as is (one that fits me anyway
39.gif
) so that leaves me with going custom and i''m just too afraid to do it and you''d think going with a pricy designer that all those details would be taken care of and this goes to show things can still happen that are unexpected. I do think the problem came in setting the stone locally though. Bill Pearlman has told me time and time again that he always recommends the designer setting stones b/c the when the local guys do it, that''s where the mistakes are made. Anyway, DeeJay, I''m glad you''re going to send the whole thing to JK. I really do think he''ll be shocked when he see''s the setting and will do what he can so it lives up to your expectations as well as his name
1.gif
 

Cehrabehra

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Date: 12/27/2006 11:08:21 PM
Author: mrssalvo

Date: 12/27/2006 10:55:22 PM
Author: Cehrabehra
one thing is for sure, I''m more scared than ever to have my ring done!! lol If making sure the details you ask for are done well isn''t hard enough, trying to prepare for the things you forget to specify is horrifying!!!

I emailed deejay those exact same thoughts yesterday. I have yet to find the perfect setting as is (one that fits me anyway
39.gif
) so that leaves me with going custom and i''m just too afraid to do it and you''d think going with a pricy designer that all those details would be taken care of and this goes to show things can still happen that are unexpected. I do think the problem came in setting the stone locally though. Bill Pearlman has told me time and time again that he always recommends the designer setting stones b/c the when the local guys do it, that''s where the mistakes are made. Anyway, DeeJay, I''m glad you''re going to send the whole thing to JK. I really do think he''ll be shocked when he see''s the setting and will do what he can so it lives up to your expectations as well as his name
1.gif
I don''t want to hijack DJs thread with all of this fear LOL But I''m with you - I haven''t found any settings I like as is - mostly because the one thing I''m really set on is having 8 prongs in just the right places.... anyway, I think you''re wearing your ring though - right? I can''t get my husband to agree to this lol Meaning if it gets put, it stays put. waaaah!!!
 

gail013

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I would think the Dee Jay has more of a chance at getting her ring made to her liking BECAUSE she went with a designer piece. he has his name on the ring, and he wants to make sure it is done well. Otherwise, she would be left at the mercy of her local custom person. I wish I had some suggestions, but I have nothing that hasn''t already been suggested. There are quite a few round stones in the square halo''s out there in the stores though.
 

Dee*Jay

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Date: 12/27/2006 11:08:21 PM
Author: mrssalvo
Date: 12/27/2006 10:55:22 PM

Author: Cehrabehra

one thing is for sure, I''m more scared than ever to have my ring done!! lol If making sure the details you ask for are done well isn''t hard enough, trying to prepare for the things you forget to specify is horrifying!!!


I emailed deejay those exact same thoughts yesterday. I have yet to find the perfect setting as is (one that fits me anyway
39.gif
) so that leaves me with going custom and i''m just too afraid to do it and you''d think going with a pricy designer that all those details would be taken care of and this goes to show things can still happen that are unexpected. I do think the problem came in setting the stone locally though. Bill Pearlman has told me time and time again that he always recommends the designer setting stones b/c the when the local guys do it, that''s where the mistakes are made. Anyway, DeeJay, I''m glad you''re going to send the whole thing to JK. I really do think he''ll be shocked when he see''s the setting and will do what he can so it lives up to your expectations as well as his name
1.gif



I think this is truly wise advice! If I had known (and how many times have we all uttered *that* phrase!) I would have insisted that the diamond go to Kelege for setting. But the jeweler was just so nonchalant about having it be set here that I thought I was missing something, and therefore I didn''t insist.

Also, about the gap. Let''s make sure we''re all talking about the SAME gap.

I was trying to explain it to the happy hubby last night and *his* confusion made me think I''ve led some of you down the path of other confusion, LOL. My problem is not with the gap between the girdle of the stone and top of the halo, because I know that can be fixed by simply lowering the diamond, my problem is with the gaps in the corners of the inside of the halo when you look at the ring straight on. Sorry if I confused anyone into thinking my gap problem was a function of the height of the stone from the side.
 

diamondseeker2006

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I knew what gap you were meaning, but I think many of us feel that the corner gaps will still be reduced with setting the stone lower and restoring double prongs in those corners. The only way to totally avoid the corner gaps would have been to ask for the opening in the halo to have been made round, and the outside of the halo square, octagonal, or whatever. I am thinking that Jayrenay''s halo has a round hole in the center. They can be made that way at the outset, but I don''t think you can alter this one unless they remake the whole halo.
 

Cehrabehra

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Date: 12/28/2006 9:41:06 AM
Author: Dee*Jay

Also, about the gap. Let''s make sure we''re all talking about the SAME gap.

I was trying to explain it to the happy hubby last night and *his* confusion made me think I''ve led some of you down the path of other confusion, LOL. My problem is not with the gap between the girdle of the stone and top of the halo, because I know that can be fixed by simply lowering the diamond, my problem is with the gaps in the corners of the inside of the halo when you look at the ring straight on. Sorry if I confused anyone into thinking my gap problem was a function of the height of the stone from the side.
Lowering the diamond will change the relative size of the diamond in relation to the square hole it is in. Lowering it will decrease the amount of corner gap you can see and increase the amount of side/top/bottom overhang you have. It''s the same concept as how high the stone is set. The higher it is off your finger, the bigger it will look against your finger, or relative to your finger''s size. In your case it will also be relative to the size of the square hole your diamond is over. How much .5 or 1mm difference will make I dunno. I''m sure there''s a formula out there that has to do with the geometry of a cone or something but I haven''t had coffee lol

cbtrydjtwo.jpg
 

Cehrabehra

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Date: 12/28/2006 1:23:58 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
I knew what gap you were meaning, but I think many of us feel that the corner gaps will still be reduced with setting the stone lower and restoring double prongs in those corners. The only way to totally avoid the corner gaps would have been to ask for the opening in the halo to have been made round, and the outside of the halo square, octagonal, or whatever. I am thinking that Jayrenay''s halo has a round hole in the center. They can be made that way at the outset, but I don''t think you can alter this one unless they remake the whole halo.
see.... I dunno... you might be able to alter this as long as it is in a non-structural spot. Meaning - he might be able to fill the gap in with metal and then shape and polish it but I don''t know that it would look *better* because it would have to just be fill around the prongs, I wouldn''t want my prongsattached to fill, and I don''t know that it would be sturdy enough to add diamonds too. Maybe solder in some little tiny bezel set melee - three per corner?
 

Cehrabehra

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Date: 12/28/2006 12:11:57 AM
Author: gail013
I would think the Dee Jay has more of a chance at getting her ring made to her liking BECAUSE she went with a designer piece. he has his name on the ring, and he wants to make sure it is done well. Otherwise, she would be left at the mercy of her local custom person. I wish I had some suggestions, but I have nothing that hasn''t already been suggested. There are quite a few round stones in the square halo''s out there in the stores though.
I haven''t seen anyone question that it was done well. At least as far as execution is concerned. A slight lack of intuit on the design perhaps, but that was overlooked by everyone.
 

Dee*Jay

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OK, I just had an entirely unproductive conversation with another jeweler about my ring. All he wanted to talk about was how he would have made the whole thing diferently, and not anything about how to "fix" it in its current condition. Sigh.

But I am having a thought: *What if* the halo were slightly smaller than the center stone? Here's a pic that looks like what I'm trying to describle. It came from this thread link and this is the only picture of the ring that I can find, but doesn't it look like the center stone overlaps the halo just slightly? So maybe they could take out my halo stones and replace them with slightly bigger ones? Right now I have one stone in each corner and four on each side, so maybe if they went to a slightly bigger one in the corners and three bigger ones rather than four on each side? (Or maybe the corner ones wouldn't have to be changed at all if the prongs stay where they are?) Do you think that would work? Do you think the stones would then be so big that I'd lose the delicacy of the halo? Do you think I am driving myself AND ALL OF YOU crazy? (YES!!!)

(Irina [or anyone], if you were so inclined to maybe show me what my new idea would look like I would be very very grateful!)

round overlap on halo.jpg
 

Cehrabehra

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Date: 12/28/2006 2:15:56 PM
Author: Dee*Jay
OK, I just had an entirely unproductive conversation with another jeweler about my ring. All he wanted to talk about was how he would have made the whole thing diferently, and not anything about how to ''fix'' it in its current condition. Sigh.

But I am having a thought: *What if* the halo were slightly smaller than the center stone? Here''s a pic that looks like what I''m trying to describle. It came from this thread link and this is the only picture of the ring that I can find, but doesn''t it look like the center stone overlaps the halo just slightly? So maybe they could take out my halo stones and replace them with slightly bigger ones? Right now I have one stone in each corner and four on each side, so maybe if they went to a slightly bigger one in the corners and three bigger ones rather than four on each side? (Or maybe the corner ones wouldn''t have to be changed at all if the prongs stay where they are?) Do you think that would work? Do you think the stones would then be so big that I''d lose the delicacy of the halo? Do you think I am driving myself AND ALL OF YOU crazy? (YES!!!)

(Irina [or anyone], if you were so inclined to maybe show me what my new idea would look like I would be very very grateful!)
oooh oooh dee jay!!! I have the answer for you!!!!! I think it''s time for the 4carat upgrade ;-) ;-)
41.gif
 

Vix

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Dee, gorgeous ring. I am sure that all this input will help you figure out a solution to what''s bothering you.

The only way to totally avoid the corner gaps would have been to ask for the opening in the halo to have been made round, and the outside of the halo square, octagonal, or whatever.

I have to respectfully disagree with the above, as I have a 20s ring with a round stone in an hex opening that is then set within what I term a double metal hex halo; there are no empty corners. In fact, I believe the setting illustrates the technique Oldminer was referring to way upthread re metal thickening at the corners to curve around the diamond, but I could be wrong.

In case it helps, I''ll attach a photo. Of course every prong/airline/"well-loved" spot etc looks so magnified here vs blending in person, but anything for the cause!

58734964.jpg




Best of luck!
 

Cehrabehra

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Date: 12/28/2006 2:24:50 PM
Author: Cehrabehra
oooh oooh dee jay!!! I have the answer for you!!!!! I think it''s time for the 4carat upgrade ;-) ;-)
41.gif
see solves all the problems :D

cbtrydjthree.jpg
 

diamondseeker2006

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Dee Jay, that is likely a round hole in that halo. I think it would require remaking your whole halo to put in different size diamonds. I think the halo is perfect now, other than the fact you don''t like the square hole. I really think with the stone lowered and the double prongs put in the corners, the ring will look like it is supposed to. I am really afraid that messing with it otherwise could make it end up worse than it is.
 

gail013

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I did not mean to imply the ring was not well made, just that I was thinking a well known designer would be more willing to work thru these details to make sure he had a happy customer. I think the ring is gorgeous, but I understand wanting what you want.....

Can you just call the designer or email him directly?

i was thinking the same thing about going to a larger stone.....
31.gif
I mean if you had to pay to redo something or pay for a larger stone, well......lol
 

diamondseeker2006

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Date: 12/28/2006 2:26:10 PM
Author: Vix
Dee, gorgeous ring. I am sure that all this input will help you figure out a solution to what''s bothering you.


The only way to totally avoid the corner gaps would have been to ask for the opening in the halo to have been made round, and the outside of the halo square, octagonal, or whatever.

I have to respectfully disagree with the above, as I have a 20s ring with a round stone in an hex opening that is then set within what I term a double metal hex halo; there are no empty corners. In fact, I believe the setting illustrates the technique Oldminer was referring to way upthread re metal thickening at the corners to curve around the diamond, but I could be wrong.

In case it helps, I''ll attach a photo. Of course every prong/airline/''well-loved'' spot etc looks so magnified here vs blending in person, but anything for the cause!

58734964.jpg




Best of luck!
I think we''re saying the same thing...yes, your outer edges are 6-sided, but the inside part where the diamond is set has been rounded. Dee Jay''s ring could have been made that way...I''m just worried about whether it can be changed adequately after completion. I have a grandmother''s ring very similar to that, as a matter of fact!
 

Dee*Jay

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Date: 12/28/2006 2:32:36 PM
Author: gail013
I did not mean to imply the ring was not well made, just that I was thinking a well known designer would be more willing to work thru these details to make sure he had a happy customer. I think the ring is gorgeous, but I understand wanting what you want.....


Can you just call the designer or email him directly?


i was thinking the same thing about going to a larger stone.....
31.gif
I mean if you had to pay to redo something or pay for a larger stone, well......lol


Gail - Oh no, I never thought you were implying that the ring was not well made. No worries at all! And hopefully I will have the opportunity to talk to the designer directly when he gets back from vacation next week. I would like him to have my ring in hand when we talk though because I think it would be a more productive conversation.

Now for all of you who are tempting me to go to a larger stone, (1) STOP IT! and (2) Don''t think I haven''t been considering it.
11.gif
 

Vix

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Diamondseeker, I had interpreted your statement differently, but then I am the antithesis of a visual person!

Here''s the statement from Oldminer upthread that makes me think Dee could get this resolved without too much trouble (or hopefully tooooo much money!):

Like I said, in days now past, a jeweler would have made a round hole in the octagonal plate to hold the diamond and any excess metal could have been carved or set with tiny, nearly invisible accent stones. It still could be done. It isn''t too late and won''t cause any problems. It will cost some time and money to make this kind of change. They may feel it is worthwhile to please you.

Dee (et al), what do you think?
 

Dee*Jay

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Vix, that statement from Dave did give me hope! I guess I was also trying to come up with idea that would carry the halo right up to or just under the stone and not incorporate another design feature *at* the stone. When i envision Dave''s suggestion I see another rim of metal inside the halo with tiny stones, but maybe I''m simply thinking about it the wrong way.
 

Vix

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I wish Dave would stop celebrating and clarify, ha! I read it as metal *or* tiny stones, not both. Hmmmmm.

Granted I am not a diagnosed Diamond OCDer and my stone is very modest next to yours (which could make a difference), but the extra metal is just imperceptible in person. I think you might be happy with it or the wee sparklies.
 

Cehrabehra

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Date: 12/28/2006 2:32:08 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
Dee Jay, that is likely a round hole in that halo. I think it would require remaking your whole halo to put in different size diamonds. I think the halo is perfect now, other than the fact you don't like the square hole. I really think with the stone lowered and the double prongs put in the corners, the ring will look like it is supposed to. I am really afraid that messing with it otherwise could make it end up worse than it is.
all joking aside -this is what I believe as well.

ETA: wait, let me clarify LOL I think it is gorgeous now. I think the claw prongs that irina put in in the places she put them, as well as lowering the stone a tad would make it *perfect*. At least as perfect as you're gonna get without a remake. I think messing with it more than that is an opportunity for disaster.
 

Dee*Jay

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Date: 12/28/2006 3:11:16 PM
Author: Vix
I wish Dave would stop celebrating and clarify, ha! I read it as metal *or* tiny stones, not both. Hmmmmm.


Granted I am not a diagnosed Diamond OCDer and my stone is very modest next to yours (which could make a difference), but the extra metal is just imperceptible in person. I think you might be happy with it or the wee sparklies.


Oh Vix, I think you''re right. Metal OR tiny stones. Sorry for the confusion!
 

Dee*Jay

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Date: 12/28/2006 3:15:41 PM
Author: Cehrabehra
Date: 12/28/2006 2:32:08 PM

Author: diamondseeker2006

Dee Jay, that is likely a round hole in that halo. I think it would require remaking your whole halo to put in different size diamonds. I think the halo is perfect now, other than the fact you don''t like the square hole. I really think with the stone lowered and the double prongs put in the corners, the ring will look like it is supposed to. I am really afraid that messing with it otherwise could make it end up worse than it is.

all joking aside -this is what I believe as well.


I am coming to agree with you guys (gals!). I think I will send it back to Kelege next week, explain what my problem is, and see what he suggests.

All that being said however, the discussion that has taken place and the ideas that were explored on this thread give me hope that there is *something* (even if it''s as elegant and simple as doing the claw prongs in the way that Irina showed) that can be done to minimize my problem.
 

Cehrabehra

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Date: 12/28/2006 2:37:05 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006

Date: 12/28/2006 2:26:10 PM
Author: Vix
Dee, gorgeous ring. I am sure that all this input will help you figure out a solution to what''s bothering you.



The only way to totally avoid the corner gaps would have been to ask for the opening in the halo to have been made round, and the outside of the halo square, octagonal, or whatever.

I have to respectfully disagree with the above, as I have a 20s ring with a round stone in an hex opening that is then set within what I term a double metal hex halo; there are no empty corners. In fact, I believe the setting illustrates the technique Oldminer was referring to way upthread re metal thickening at the corners to curve around the diamond, but I could be wrong.

In case it helps, I''ll attach a photo. Of course every prong/airline/''well-loved'' spot etc looks so magnified here vs blending in person, but anything for the cause!

58734964.jpg




Best of luck!
I think we''re saying the same thing...yes, your outer edges are 6-sided, but the inside part where the diamond is set has been rounded. Dee Jay''s ring could have been made that way...I''m just worried about whether it can be changed adequately after completion. I have a grandmother''s ring very similar to that, as a matter of fact!
even if it is a hex hole, the prongs TOTALLY cover those holes.... two things go against this where deejay''s ring is concerned - one is that a square with 4 holes is going to be bigger gaps than a hex with 6 holes.... and in this ring above the prongs take up ALL of that gap - but on a stone the size of dee jay''s the prongs would have to be truly monster prongs to do the same effect. Now, all of that said... I agree with DS - it does look like a round hole to me.
 

Cehrabehra

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Date: 12/28/2006 3:20:10 PM
Author: Dee*Jay

Date: 12/28/2006 3:15:41 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

Date: 12/28/2006 2:32:08 PM

Author: diamondseeker2006

Dee Jay, that is likely a round hole in that halo. I think it would require remaking your whole halo to put in different size diamonds. I think the halo is perfect now, other than the fact you don''t like the square hole. I really think with the stone lowered and the double prongs put in the corners, the ring will look like it is supposed to. I am really afraid that messing with it otherwise could make it end up worse than it is.

all joking aside -this is what I believe as well.


I am coming to agree with you guys (gals!). I think I will send it back to Kelege next week, explain what my problem is, and see what he suggests.

All that being said however, the discussion that has taken place and the ideas that were explored on this thread give me hope that there is *something* (even if it''s as elegant and simple as doing the claw prongs in the way that Irina showed) that can be done to minimize my problem.
wowyou''re quick lol - I think having the prongs slightly *everso* like irina had them to line up with the corners is something youc an easily get away with since your stone is so large - they''ll still look like double prongs. On my stone I''m trying to get them to not look like double prongs so I''m orienting them to point dif directions - but I know you''re not going for the 8 prong look.... but in the 4 corners like the pic irina had they look like double prongs -but grand ones, not skimpy ones :D
 

Cehrabehra

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Date: 12/28/2006 2:26:10 PM
Author: Vix
Dee, gorgeous ring. I am sure that all this input will help you figure out a solution to what''s bothering you.


The only way to totally avoid the corner gaps would have been to ask for the opening in the halo to have been made round, and the outside of the halo square, octagonal, or whatever.

I have to respectfully disagree with the above, as I have a 20s ring with a round stone in an hex opening that is then set within what I term a double metal hex halo; there are no empty corners. In fact, I believe the setting illustrates the technique Oldminer was referring to way upthread re metal thickening at the corners to curve around the diamond, but I could be wrong.

In case it helps, I''ll attach a photo. Of course every prong/airline/''well-loved'' spot etc looks so magnified here vs blending in person, but anything for the cause!

58734964.jpg




Best of luck!
I just want to add.. this oec is sooooo pretty :)
 

diamondseeker2006

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Cehra, I have to laugh at us, because of the million hours we have spent looking at settings, we now sound like setting consultants! Lol!!!
9.gif
 

Vix

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With all the posts flying, I totally forgot to say that I like Irina''s suggestion. I''m beginning to feel a little, tiny, wee bit sorry for Kelege...he may have trouble keeping up with all the hypotheticals, Dee!

ps Cehra, thanks (though it''s a bit younger cut...European vs OEC).
 

Cehrabehra

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Date: 12/28/2006 3:50:34 PM
Author: Vix
With all the posts flying, I totally forgot to say that I like Irina''s suggestion. I''m beginning to feel a little, tiny, wee bit sorry for Kelege...he may have trouble keeping up with all the hypotheticals, Dee!

ps Cehra, thanks (though it''s a bit younger cut...European vs OEC).
isn''t that what an OEC is? I don''t think I''ve ever heard of a "european"! OEC stands for old european cut... am I missing something? lol
 
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