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Can someone provide a little design advice for my ring?

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Dee*Jay

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As many of you know I got my new setting a few days ago. Despite my best attempt to communicate to Kelege exactly what I wanted, I have ended up with what I was afraid of all along: Empty Corner Syndrome.


Here is a picture of what I''m talking about. As you can see the inside of the halo is bigger than the diamond and, except for where the prongs are, the corners are "empty." I''m looking for ideas of what can be done to fix this problem because when I took it back to the jeweler yesterday he wasn''t too confident that they were a solution so I''m hoping that the creativity on this board will take over and a reasonable option can be suggested to Kelege next week when they get back from vacation.

My two ideas as this point are bigger, double prongs that would fill in the corners (but I don''t want to end up with Monster Prong Syndrome either, LOL!) or to somehow "rim" the inside of the halo with another row of metal that would take up some space. Neither of these sound fabulous to me, but if anyone can either render these ideas in photoshop or suggest some other different solutions I would MUCH appreciate it.

corners.jpg
 

Dee*Jay

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And here is a view that shows the prongs as they current exist.

The thread showing more pics is here:
The Eagle Has Landed!

One more thing. I want the stone to be lowered. My feeling is that lowering the stone with the current design of the halo and the prongs will simply make the empty corner problem more obvious. Now there is a little "play" in the way you can look at the stone and the corners by moving your hand around, but if the stone is lowered in to the setting that play goes away. Does that make any sense? Would lowering the stone make the problem any better or worse?

angle shot of prongs.jpg
 

jcrow

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i was thinking that lowering the stone would make the gap smaller. i could be wrong, but my way of thinking is that with the stone up as it is now, there is more air/room. if the stone is lowered, that gap would be filled in with the stone itself. does that make sense? i'm thinking of it as if looking at the profile - like the second shot.
 

kcoursolle

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Hi deejay,
I''m not loving those empty corners either. However, the stone height is bothering me less. How about some prongs like this on the tiffany split shank? They are delicate and will take up a larger part of each corner.

Tiffanyflatprong.jpg
 

diamondseeker2006

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Dee Jay, as a fellow person with diamond OCD, I understand your feelings. But as an objective observer of your ring, I have to tell you that I absolutely would not attempt to alter that setting. I think it is gorgeous as is, but I do agree that the stone could be set a tiny bit lower. Then you may not perceive the other problem as much. I really like the round stone in the square halo. I think by messing with it you might end up with a bigger problem. Trust me, the ring is outstanding as it is.
 

Dee*Jay

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kcoursolle - OH WHAT A GREAT IDEA! I was trying to describe something like this to the jewler yesterday and he just looked at me like I'm some special kind of stupid. Maybe they could even milgrain the edges in some way too, since they seem to be so fond of that little process, LOL. This is exactly what I mean -- everyone here thinks ouside the box!

jcrow - i am having such a hard time with what is such a basic concept on this one. I just don't know if lowering the stone would make the gap better or worse.

And DS, I *AM* afraid of creating a bigger problem to be totally honest with you. I can't tell you how many times I've done something and then been like, WHY did I have to mess with it?!?
 

Ellen

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Date: 12/27/2006 10:53:32 AM
Author: Dee*Jay
kcoursolle - OH WHAT A GREAT IDEA! I was trying to describe something like this to the jewler yesterday and he just looked at me like I''m some special kind of stupid.
DeeJay, you crack me up!



Sorry, I have nothing to add, just needed to say that!
 

UCLABelle

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I understand the fear you have about altering the ring, but to be 100% honest, I would at least alter the prongs. They look a bit strange, as it almost looks like single prongs (which I believe they are) with an "attempt" to make it look like double prongs. Maybe it is just me. I like KC's idea of the prongs, you might wants to see if someone here can photoshop images of different prong types.

Otherwise, I LOVE the setting and the diamond is to die for. One of my all-time favs! With a little bit of work, it will look 100% PERFECT (okay, us on PS are a bit more "into" our rings, so I will say 99.9% perfect)....
 

Dee*Jay

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UCLA Belle, they actually were *supposed* to be double prongs, but the setter somehow melded them into single prongs. When I showed the ring to the jeweler yesterday he was like, What The Hell??? (He obviously didn't look at it before he gave it to me on Friday night--but in his defense he was absolutely swamped and worked hard to get this to me by the weekend so I understand how that could happen.)

And yes, hopefully some kind *photoshop guru* will work a little magic for me!
 

jcrow

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Date: 12/27/2006 11:45:33 AM
Author: Dee*Jay
UCLA Belle, they actually were *supposed* to be double prongs, but the setter somehow melded them into single prongs. When I showed the ring to the jeweler yesterday he was like, What The Hell??? (He obviously didn''t look at it before he gave it to me on Friday night--but in his defense he was absolutely swamped and worked hard to get this to me by the weekend so I understand how that could happen.)

And yes, hopefully some kind *photoshop guru* will work a little magic for me!
ha, i wondered about those prongs too. it''s like faux splits. i would try having them redone to be actual split prongs. and lower the stone.
 

oldminer

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Years ago, tiny spaces like those would have been filled by a pair of 1/2 or 1/4 point, tiny diamonds set in beads. Another way now would be to remove the diamond and fill the open zones with bits of metal to cover the open zone. Once polished and the stone reset over it, you would see the open zones less....maybe.

Probably other people won''t see these as faults, but once you see them, it is difficult to be pleased about it. I am sure it can be made a bit better.
 

Dee*Jay

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Dave - so, not to read too much into your message, but do you think this setting might not have been "appropriate" for a round stone? I hate to second guess Jack Kelege, but I am having a hard time with the idea that he thought a round stone in an octagonal halo with no provision for the gaps was a good idea...
 

oldminer

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It is the way people make things today. A round peg into an octagonal hole looks good at 20 inches, but a little less good when closely examined. Good Enough is a key phrase as labor costs are prohibitive.

Like I said, in days now past, a jeweler would have made a round hole in the octagonal plate to hold the diamond and any excess metal could have been carved or set with tiny, nearly invisible accent stones. It still could be done. It isn''t too late and won''t cause any problems. It will cost some time and money to make this kind of change. They may feel it is worthwhile to please you. If it was something I made that displeased you, then it would be done regardless of cost...period. Not all firms operate this way, so you may need to politely complain, beg, plead, etc. Getting angry probably will insure you don''t get it done. Be a diplomat.
 

lim

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hi--aspiring jewelry designer here: what about true double prongs that line up with the clipped corners of the mounting? might fill the space in with prong material and aligning the prongs somewhat with the corners might fool the eye a bit.
 

allycat0303

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Well I don''t know anything about the manufacture of a ring, but maybe the flat prongs like the ashley judd ring? Although I think the prongs are a bit big, I do agree that the empty corners would make me insane. Good luck with your search!

alrasa.jpg
 

jaz464

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Could 8 tiny diamonds be set into the corners, kind of like oldminer said? Like suprise diamonds but on top?
 

kenny

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Dee*Jay, you wrote, ". . . do you think this setting might not have been "appropriate" for a round stone? I hate to second guess Jack Kelege, but I am having a hard time with the idea that he thought a round stone in an octagonal halo with no provision for the gaps was a good idea..."

I wasn't going to bring it up but since you did I'm also wondering why a round stone would be put into a halo that is not round.

And I agree with being diplomatic.
How you come across is just as important as what you say in any important interaction.

If putting a round peg into a square hole was not your idea then I think you should be getting a modification at no expense to you.
If it was the customer's idea you should be willing to pay for the modification.

BTW when I stand back I think it is a very beautiful ring and the concern it is not a major thing so I'd consider trying to put it out out of my mind for 30 days.
(I know I know - I'm the last person who should be giving such advice since I'm Mr. NitPick.)
 

Cehrabehra

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Date: 12/27/2006 12:06:43 PM
Author: Dee*Jay
Dave - so, not to read too much into your message, but do you think this setting might not have been ''appropriate'' for a round stone? I hate to second guess Jack Kelege, but I am having a hard time with the idea that he thought a round stone in an octagonal halo with no provision for the gaps was a good idea...
the setting is originally for a square stone, right? I expressed this concern iniitally but just assumed that the setting would be made differently somehow - the external part of the halo one shape, the internal part of the halo another shape. Did you specifically ask him to do that? Make the interior outline a circle? And like Dave I thinkit can be fixed... but not without upsetting the interior diamonds. But then again I''m not sure what their point is down there... kinda like having diamonds in the springs of your couch cushions. Does it make you feel better just to know they''re there or do they actually do something to help the springs be more springy? LOL I think you''re going to run into issues with lowering it as well. Sounds like the entire inside parameter is going to need to be fiddled with. If this is the case then I vote even more strongly for getting the stone to Jack so he can customize it for your stone.
 

Dee*Jay

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Date: 12/27/2006 1:01:12 PM
Author: kenny
Dee*Jay, you wrote, ''. . . do you think this setting might not have been ''appropriate'' for a round stone? I hate to second guess Jack Kelege, but I am having a hard time with the idea that he thought a round stone in an octagonal halo with no provision for the gaps was a good idea...''


I wasn''t going to bring it up but since you did I''m also wondering why a round stone would be put into a halo that is not round.


And I agree with being diplomatic.

How you come across is just as important as what you say in any important interaction.


If putting a round peg into a square hole was not your idea then I think you should be getting a modification at no expense to you.

If it was the customer''s idea you should be willing to pay for the modification.


BTW when I stand back I think it is a very beautiful ring and the concern it is not a major thing so I''d consider trying to put it out out of my mind for 30 days.

(I know I know - I''m the last person who should be giving such advice since I''m Mr. NitPick.)

Kenny - You raise several important points. Putting the round diamond in the square hole was my idea -- based upon the design that was presented to me from the Kelge catalog. I feel that I am responsible for this ring, and I have made it very clear to the jeweler that I will pay for the changes because I picked this setting for this stone.

That being said, it never occurred to me that the halo would not be made to fit the center stone. Believe me, if I had been told that there would be space in the corners and no accommodation would be made for the different shapes, I would NOT have ordered this setting. Maybe, however, I didn''t ask enough questions.

Let me post three pictures below with a little commentary.

In this pic you can kind tell that the halo curves around the center stone. I have a bigger pic of this showing exactly what I mean but it''s in a .bmp file and I don''t know how to convert it.

no side stones.jpg
 

Dee*Jay

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This is the picture that I was shown from the catalog. Obviously this is a copy of a copy, but honestly the pic in the catalog is not much better.

The corners clearly show space, however I asked the jeweler about this and he said that Kelege would not make a ring that didn''t "work" for the stone it was intended for.

catalog picture.jpg
 

Dee*Jay

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And here is the ring that was brought in for me as a sample, obviously with a square stone. You can kinda see the diamonds on the inside of the halo in this pic (which all of the Kelege halo settings seem to have). In the beautiful bright lights of the jewelry store the gaps are not as much of a problem, but I unfortunately do not live in a jewelry store and the lights in my reality are different...

kelege sample ring.jpg
 

Dee*Jay

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OK, now that we have pics to work with, especially the second one, let me say again that *I* chose this setting so I feel responsible for the way it turned out. There are gaps in the pic from the catalog and I should not have placed an order for a $XX,XXX setting just based on the jeweler telling me that it would be OK.

The bottom line is, now I have this ring and I don''t like the gaps. I need to find a way to have it modified and I am willing to pay for it. I just hope Kelege will cooperate...

Please keep the dialogue and suggestions coming; I appreciate all your help in thinking through this.
 

decodelighted

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I think lowering the stone would help a lot ... but here''s Kittenkat''s round in an octagonal setting for discussion sake ...I don''t see the same "empty corner" issue in this setting.

roundinoctagonal.jpg
 

Dee*Jay

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Date: 12/27/2006 12:14:32 PM
Author: oldminer
It is the way people make things today. A round peg into an octagonal hole looks good at 20 inches, but a little less good when closely examined. Good Enough is a key phrase as labor costs are prohibitive.


Like I said, in days now past, a jeweler would have made a round hole in the octagonal plate to hold the diamond and any excess metal could have been carved or set with tiny, nearly invisible accent stones. It still could be done. It isn''t too late and won''t cause any problems. It will cost some time and money to make this kind of change. They may feel it is worthwhile to please you. If it was something I made that displeased you, then it would be done regardless of cost...period. Not all firms operate this way, so you may need to politely complain, beg, plead, etc. Getting angry probably will insure you don''t get it done. Be a diplomat.

You have no idea how much better this makes me feel! I was in a total panic that this thing was "set in stone" at this point, but I am 100% relieved that it''s possible to modify it. I am more than willing to pay to have the changes made. And I am absolutely being diplomatic about this because I need them to want to work with me! I will do my best not to get angry at all (but I can''t promise that I won''t cry at some point, LOL).
 

Cehrabehra

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Date: 12/27/2006 1:19:21 PM
Author: Dee*Jay
In this pic you can kind tell that the halo curves around the center stone. I have a bigger pic of this showing exactly what I mean but it''s in a .bmp file and I don''t know how to convert it.
in this setting which looks a bit cushion like - the interior ring and exterior ring of the halo both mirror the stone shape. In your ring the interior and exterior rings both are square. I think you need to SPECIFICALLY request that the exterior be square and the interior be round and with wanting your stone set lower I think you need to be specific - like the girdle .5mm above the hole or whatever. I think the entire inside of your setting will need to be taken apart to acommodate both of these - having it round and having it lower. If you just want it round I think they can fill some gaps. If you just want it lower it might minimize the look. I think you should get the ring as is to the designer and ask him what HE suggests to meet these two desires of yours.
 

Dee*Jay

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Date: 12/27/2006 1:07:30 PM
Author: Cehrabehra
Date: 12/27/2006 12:06:43 PM

Author: Dee*Jay

Dave - so, not to read too much into your message, but do you think this setting might not have been ''appropriate'' for a round stone? I hate to second guess Jack Kelege, but I am having a hard time with the idea that he thought a round stone in an octagonal halo with no provision for the gaps was a good idea...
the setting is originally for a square stone, right? I expressed this concern iniitally but just assumed that the setting would be made differently somehow - the external part of the halo one shape, the internal part of the halo another shape. Did you specifically ask him to do that? Make the interior outline a circle? And like Dave I thinkit can be fixed... but not without upsetting the interior diamonds. But then again I''m not sure what their point is down there... kinda like having diamonds in the springs of your couch cushions. Does it make you feel better just to know they''re there or do they actually do something to help the springs be more springy? LOL I think you''re going to run into issues with lowering it as well. Sounds like the entire inside parameter is going to need to be fiddled with. If this is the case then I vote even more strongly for getting the stone to Jack so he can customize it for your stone.
They actually DO help, believe it or not. The diamonds on the inside/underneath sparkle too so there is sparkle around the stone that you can see at just the right angle. Sorry, I''m not describing this very well...
 

Dee*Jay

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Date: 12/27/2006 1:27:18 PM
Author: decodelighted
I think lowering the stone would help a lot ... but here''s Kittenkat''s round in an octagonal setting for discussion sake ...I don''t see the same ''empty corner'' issue in this setting.

Deco - I''ve spent quite a bit of time looking at Kittenkat''s ring, both before I ordered my setting and in the past few days. I think the reason why her''s works is because the angles are greater. There are two diamonds in the corners rather than just the one that I have, so the corners come in closer (if that makes any sense).
 

Cehrabehra

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Date: 12/27/2006 1:27:18 PM
Author: decodelighted
I think lowering the stone would help a lot ... but here''s Kittenkat''s round in an octagonal setting for discussion sake ...I don''t see the same ''empty corner'' issue in this setting.
this is why I think its important to differentiate the internal edge and the external edge of the halo rather than just saying "square halo" because in this stone you posted deco the internal edge or hole is round - the external is not. Having a round stone in a square hole is always going to give you corners, period. Having a round stone in a round hole with a square external halo is possible but obviously not all designers are going to assume that''s what you want.
 

Cehrabehra

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Date: 12/27/2006 1:35:05 PM
Author: Dee*Jay

Date: 12/27/2006 1:07:30 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

the setting is originally for a square stone, right? I expressed this concern iniitally but just assumed that the setting would be made differently somehow - the external part of the halo one shape, the internal part of the halo another shape. Did you specifically ask him to do that? Make the interior outline a circle? And like Dave I thinkit can be fixed... but not without upsetting the interior diamonds. But then again I''m not sure what their point is down there... kinda like having diamonds in the springs of your couch cushions. Does it make you feel better just to know they''re there or do they actually do something to help the springs be more springy? LOL I think you''re going to run into issues with lowering it as well. Sounds like the entire inside parameter is going to need to be fiddled with. If this is the case then I vote even more strongly for getting the stone to Jack so he can customize it for your stone.
They actually DO help, believe it or not. The diamonds on the inside/underneath sparkle too so there is sparkle around the stone that you can see at just the right angle. Sorry, I''m not describing this very well...
if you lower the stone and get rid of the corner gaps will you still see them? Do you think they will be able to be saved if he retools the opening shape?
 

Dee*Jay

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Date: 12/27/2006 1:41:55 PM
Author: Cehrabehra
Date: 12/27/2006 1:35:05 PM

Author: Dee*Jay


Date: 12/27/2006 1:07:30 PM

Author: Cehrabehra


the setting is originally for a square stone, right? I expressed this concern iniitally but just assumed that the setting would be made differently somehow - the external part of the halo one shape, the internal part of the halo another shape. Did you specifically ask him to do that? Make the interior outline a circle? And like Dave I thinkit can be fixed... but not without upsetting the interior diamonds. But then again I''m not sure what their point is down there... kinda like having diamonds in the springs of your couch cushions. Does it make you feel better just to know they''re there or do they actually do something to help the springs be more springy? LOL I think you''re going to run into issues with lowering it as well. Sounds like the entire inside parameter is going to need to be fiddled with. If this is the case then I vote even more strongly for getting the stone to Jack so he can customize it for your stone.

They actually DO help, believe it or not. The diamonds on the inside/underneath sparkle too so there is sparkle around the stone that you can see at just the right angle. Sorry, I''m not describing this very well...
if you lower the stone and get rid of the corner gaps will you still see them? Do you think they will be able to be saved if he retools the opening shape?
I don''t know. I think the reason I can see them now are becuse there *are* gaps, and also because the stone is set high enough that light is getting in to create the sparkle.
 
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