Can someone help me understand this?

[em2010]

My friend and I recently purchased two solitaire diamond rings. Hers is a VS1 G 1-carat excellent cut with AGS certificate. Mine is a VS1 E 2-carat excellent cut with GIA certificate and HCA of 1. When we set the rings side by side, hers is noticeably brighter and appears more ice-cold than my diamond. If my diamond was not appraised by a reputable appraiser, I would have thought the color is mislabeled on the GIA certificate.

Could anyone help me understand why this could happen? I would have chosen a G color larger diamond if I had a chance to compare with hers prior to the purchase.

Thanks,

 

[LGK]

Huh. Does theirs have fluorescence maybe? That could account for the visual difference, especially if you were looking at them outside.

Also, smaller stones tend to look whiter, in general. So it might be an optical illusion, really.

Other than that, it's always *possible* that something was mis-graded- either theirs is actually whiter than the cert states or yours is a lower color. Not likely, of course. But diamonds are graded by humans and you do occasionally hear about that happening from *any* lab.

Can you get an appraiser to look at yours for peace of mind? (Not just show it to some random jeweler in passing, but actually get a true independant appraiser to look and pay them for it, lol.) If it's too late and you can't return it, I'd just try to not worry about it; I'm sure it's plenty white and sparkly, and frankly huge!

 

[em2010]

Thank you for your response and suggestion. Yes, my diamond was evaluated by a well-respected master apparaiser. He said the color of my diamond is a couple of hues better than the master E-color sample so I am confident the color is right on the GIA certificate.

My friend's diamond almost make mine appears a little dull. Otherwise, mine looks sparkly by itself. I spent quite some time researching what grades of diamond to buy to get the most brilliance and ice-cold look. I was surprised a G-color excellent cut diamond would outshine a E-color excellent cut diamond quite noticeably. Does a smaller excellent cut diamond usually appear brigher than a bigger excellent cut diamond as well?

Thanks for the help!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

You did not answer about fluoro?

 

[em2010]

I will ask my friend next time I see her. I used to have a diamond with blue fluorescence and would appear milky under certain lighting. My friend's diamond appear crispy clear all the time I saw it.

One thing I thought might have helped the ice-cold look was that her diamond was set low on a 6-prong plain platinum ring. Mine was set quite high (dimaond's culet is +2mm above the joint of the mount piece) on a 4-prong plain platinum ring.

Her diamond looks definitely more brilliant to untrained eyes. I do not know the measurements but her AGS certificate rates the cut as excellent. The HCA score of my diamond is 1 so it should not be too shabby. Her diamond makes mine looks slightly dull. Is this due to the size of the diamond or the cut grading is more strict with AGS-certified diamond?

Thanks for sharing your advice! I hope to learn enough to make the right decisions in future diamond purchases.

Cheers,

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

If her stone is strong blue it is more likely to make it look better not worse.
Also are you certain your was very very clean?

 

[em2010]

VS1 grading, has one tiny cloud almost in the middle of the table. A couple of pinpoints along the side and one natural at the edge. Looks pretty clean to me. My diamond ring is kept clean.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Guessing but sounds like differences in cut.
Do you have a GIA report number and carat weight for your stone?
GIA Excellent HCA = 1 can have darkness and obstruction issues if being viewed at close proximity.
AGS 000 Ideal AGS-PGS are more strict, they penalize stones with more shallow pavilions.

 

[yssie]

I'm w/ CCL, if her diamond is shallower with long LGFs it could look very bright, sharp, and splintery compared to another deeper, softer high-crown/small-table/thick-arrow combo

 

[em2010]

Good thinking. Here is the link to the GIA report. The link to the full PDF certficate is on the website:

http://www2.gia.edu/reportcheck/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.showReportVerification&reportno=2121363515&weight=1.81

 

[demirci]

Your stone "sounds" very beautiful., great proportions. Her stone might have more facets to give more sparkle. You can tone up the sparkles by making it a solasfera cut. when I checked out Kay jewelers they had a Leo cut Diamond with more facets that increased the sparkles. sometimes a hearts and arrows cut outperforms a regular excellent cut. It;s mostly case by case basis. Ask her what the cut is.

 

[LGK]

VS1 grading, has one tiny cloud almost in the middle of the table. A couple of pinpoints along the side and one natural at the edge. Looks pretty clean to me. My diamond ring is kept clean.

Oh, I'm pretty sure Gary meant clean as in, if you'd cleaned it lately. If you hadn't cleaned your diamond in, say, a couple of days and she'd cleaned hers that morning, you bet yours would look dull in comparison. Diamonds are wee grease magnets and really need cleaning ideally every day, especially if you put lotion on or something.

It could be that there's a subtle difference in the style of cutting- like her stone is balanced towards white light return over fire, and your eye is drawn to that.

Still could be fluoro too- *most* fluorescent diamonds aren't milky in the sun, but do look "whiter" compared to a non-fluoro diamond.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Good thinking. Here is the link to the GIA report. The link to the full PDF certficate is on the website:

http://www2.gia.edu/reportcheck/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.showReportVerification&reportno=2121363515&weight=1.81

Your diamond has Ideal Tolk proportions and should perform well in most scenarios. However we would need reflector images to confirm as grading report data is based on average measurements.

1) Make sure the pavilion(bottom) is very clean.
2) The setting tone of metal and polish can make a difference
3) If you can view them both in many lighting scenarios (Inside in low light, outside, strong spot lighting etc)

We can't really answer without further investigation as we don't know the proportions of your friend's stone.

 

[em2010]

My friend is kind enough to let me have her diamond's certificate information. Correction, it is a GIA not AGS certified diamond, no flouresence and HCA of 1.7. Her diamond is truly stunning, very white and bright. Excellent purchase in my opinion.

http://www2.gia.edu/reportcheck/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.showReportVerification&reportno=2121327849&weight=1.01

Any thoughts why mine looks dull and less white? My diamond is clean so that is not a factor. Perhaps the cloud in the center of the table is a negative? Thank you all for your good inputs!!

 

[yssie]

another thought - perhaps her stone is one of those very rare specimens that *is* actually very faintly blue? As in, from blue rough and tinted just ever so slightly - there was a PSer some years ago who had a J from blue rough that Brian found I believe...

 

[em2010]

Thank you all for your inputs and kind suggestion!

I am very happy for my friend, who just spent one hour on the internet before purchasing an excellent diamond. It looks more gorgeous in person than the numbers on the GIA certificate.

I guess it would be not fair to compare a regular E color to an exceptionally good-looking G color diamond.

 

[Circe]

another thought - perhaps her stone is one of those very rare specimens that *is* actually very faintly blue? As in, from blue rough and tinted just ever so slightly - there was a PSer some years ago who had a J from blue rough that Brian found I believe...

Huh! This sounds fascinating - Yssie, if you remember any searchable details (or, if anybody else does, for that matter), I'd love a link to this. One recent poster had an E with a faint blue hue, and I was deeply intrigued by it ....

Em, I think you're being remarkably intellectually curious and persistent about this (both of which are among the highest compliments I can pay) - you're happy for your friend for finding a great rock, but you want to *know* about the science behind it all.

Honestly, diamond grading is a subjective art. It could honestly be that her stone was misgraded: without the numbers for her stone and yours, it's hard to say off the bat. But since we now HAVE both - I would (and will) look forward to some of the numbers folk on the specifics. Wish I was one of them and could be more help, but instead I'll be just as curious as you are to see the analysis ....

 

[antelope1]

I want to know too! This is very curious.

If I may suggest: Try using pure ammonia to clean your ring? I soak mine in a solution that's 25% pure ammonia (well diluted, like from the grocery store) and 75% water. Then I dip in a baby toothbrush and scrub everywhere, then I dunk it in the solution one more time to rinse off the debris, then I blow dry the ring. I forget which post I saw this in, but it was a great suggestion. Ammonia leaves no watermarks and really brings out the shine.

 

[em2010]

I want to know too! This is very curious.

If I may suggest: Try using pure ammonia to clean your ring? I soak mine in a solution that's 25% pure ammonia (well diluted, like from the grocery store) and 75% water. Then I dip in a baby toothbrush and scrub everywhere, then I dunk it in the solution one more time to rinse off the debris, then I blow dry the ring. I forget which post I saw this in, but it was a great suggestion. Ammonia leaves no watermarks and really brings out the shine.

Thanks, I was thinking to buy a machine to clean the diamond. I will give this practical suggestion a try? Pardon my ignorance, will ammonia have chemical reaction with platinum?

 

[Circe]

I want to know too! This is very curious.

If I may suggest: Try using pure ammonia to clean your ring? I soak mine in a solution that's 25% pure ammonia (well diluted, like from the grocery store) and 75% water. Then I dip in a baby toothbrush and scrub everywhere, then I dunk it in the solution one more time to rinse off the debris, then I blow dry the ring. I forget which post I saw this in, but it was a great suggestion. Ammonia leaves no watermarks and really brings out the shine.

Thanks, I was thinking to buy a machine to clean the diamond. I will give this practical suggestion a try? Pardon my ignorance, will ammonia have chemical reaction with platinum?

Nope, no worries with platinum - it can eat away at white gold, but with your setting you'll be fine.

P.S. - Windex and a Jewel Jet works perfectly for me.

 

[em2010]

Em, I think you're being remarkably intellectually curious and persistent about this (both of which are among the highest compliments I can pay) - you're happy for your friend for finding a great rock, but you want to *know* about the science behind it all.

You are very observant. The reason why I am fasinated with the science behind a good diamond is that the last time I spent 1 hour buying a diamond turned out to be a nightmare. I barely knew about what 4Cs mean before jumped on a 2.01 carat VS1 K with SB fluoro diamond which looked nice under the store light. I spent many hours in the following months doing research which lead to the refund of my bad purchase and the purchase of my new diamond over the internet. Since I miss out the luxury of seeing and comparing diamonds over the internet, I am interested in understanding the numbers to help make sound decisions.

 

[yssie]

another thought - perhaps her stone is one of those very rare specimens that *is* actually very faintly blue? As in, from blue rough and tinted just ever so slightly - there was a PSer some years ago who had a J from blue rough that Brian found I believe...

Huh! This sounds fascinating - Yssie, if you remember any searchable details (or, if anybody else does, for that matter), I'd love a link to this. One recent poster had an E with a faint blue hue, and I was deeply intrigued by it ....

Em, I think you're being remarkably intellectually curious and persistent about this (both of which are among the highest compliments I can pay) - you're happy for your friend for finding a great rock, but you want to *know* about the science behind it all.

Honestly, diamond grading is a subjective art. It could honestly be that her stone was misgraded: without the numbers for her stone and yours, it's hard to say off the bat. But since we now HAVE both - I would (and will) look forward to some of the numbers folk on the specifics. Wish I was one of them and could be more help, but instead I'll be just as curious as you are to see the analysis ....

her SN was "pqcollectibles", I found the thread she posts about the rough but my internet times out before I can get to her threads so that's about all I can do at the moment I'm afraid! [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/how-common-are-colors-other-than-yellow-in-g-k-diamonds.15824/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/how-common-are-colors-other-than-yellow-in-g-k-diamonds.15824/[/URL]
hah! here's another! Google to the rescue.. [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/color.12992/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/color.12992/[/URL]

 

[Venice]

em the next time you are together with your friend, clean both rings then have your friend wear your ring and you wear hers. Sit across the table from each other and observe. My diamond sparkles like crazy, but when it's on someone else's finger and I'm looking at it, to me it sparkles so much more.

 

[em2010]

Both of our diamonds look great by themselves. It is just when I set mine alongside my friend's, it looks slightly dull and less white. Both rings were clean when we met last time, though not showroom clean but clean enough to make an apple-to-apple comparison. That is why I am very interested in finding out what could have made the difference. I deliberately chose a better color diamond and went down on size because my limited research indicated that a 2-grade color difference would be visible to untrained eyes.

 

[Cehrabehra]

I always think smaller diamonds look brighter, but I don't think brightness is the #1 quality. I haven't seen your diamonds so I can't say for sure. bigger diamonds have so much else going on, so many other wonderful colors, they don't always just look white.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Your stone "sounds" very beautiful., great proportions. Her stone might have more facets to give more sparkle. You can tone up the sparkles by making it a solasfera cut. when I checked out Kay jewelers they had a Leo cut Diamond with more facets that increased the sparkles. sometimes a hearts and arrows cut outperforms a regular excellent cut. It;s mostly case by case basis. Ask her what the cut is.

I think leo diamonds are among the most brilliant stones, very much like the punch out of a hole punch. White. But not a lot of fire.

I'd like to hear the comparison of these two diamonds where scintillation and fire are concerned.

 

[yssie]

Your stone "sounds" very beautiful., great proportions. Her stone might have more facets to give more sparkle. You can tone up the sparkles by making it a solasfera cut. when I checked out Kay jewelers they had a Leo cut Diamond with more facets that increased the sparkles. sometimes a hearts and arrows cut outperforms a regular excellent cut. It;s mostly case by case basis. Ask her what the cut is.

I think leo diamonds are among the most brilliant stones, very much like the punch out of a hole punch. White. But not a lot of fire.

I'd like to hear the comparison of these two diamonds where scintillation and fire are concerned.

oh I'll just get you a nice unbiased bscope on that.. oh wait, you're not getting the spotlight attachment?

 

[yssie]

ETA - you know when you reach the point of brilliancescope humour..

 

[Cehrabehra]

ETA - you know when you reach the point of brilliancescope humour..

::patpatpat::: there, there Yssie, you'll be okay.... eventually... maybe...

 

[demirci]

Ok I have one guess: Lower half length. the higher that number is the more fire and flashes the diamond has. Both diamonds are listed as 80%, however GIA rounds the actual number to the nearest 5%. Example,both a 77 and 82 measurements will be reported as 80% lower half measurement. If hers is higher it might produce more sparkles and contribute to a whiter appearance. Check out this video from goodoldgold, watch in high resolution.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9FtRj_IG9Y