Buying from CeylonSapphireGems: An expensive mistake

[AnastasiaBeaverhausen]

Sorry you think I haven’t been “helpful”. It was actually me who remitted funds to Spring Day to refund her - in advance of me actually making another sapphire purchase - because it was easier for the seller to owe me rather than a new buyer, given I’ve been dealing with him for a couple of years. I felt bad that I had recommended the seller on here and people were stressed and out of pocket. But no, I’m an unhelpful bitch.

O.M.G. No wonder you were soooo certain he will give us our money back. You had to basically loan him money?? Well hey, can you send some my way?

 

[GeliL]

I get what you're trying to say. As an Asian person myself, I'm definitely the type to go "no it's ok," "I'll figure something out," etc. What differs me from CeylonSapphireGems is that when I goof, I immediately apologize, acknowledge my mistake, then do everything I can to make things right. Seems like CSG is stuck on the first step. Lol.

Definitely. I am Chinese-Canadian myself and most of my older family members are in China, and they definitely see me as a very straight laced harsh person sometimes (even though I don't really say no either, I generally just say "I promise I'll try my best" ), so I definitely understand. It's really not about not saying no, it's just how they handle the situation after that "not-no" backfires. That makes all the difference in the world.

Edit: Just adding that I really dislike how some sellers when confronting return requests say some sh*t like "All of my customers have been satisfied." "I've sold to many clients and none had problems". Like it really doesn't make a difference to me?? I never get what angle they are trying to get at. They have a return policy and they have to honour it, it's that simple.

 

[Ionysis]

O.M.G. No wonder you were soooo certain he will give us our money back. You had to basically loan him money?? Well hey, can you send some my way?

I thought at the time I was refunding you. Not knowing anyone’s real name on PS.

No I’m not funding the seller. With some of the dealers I buy from the balance of funds can be positive or negative at different times. For example if I pay for a stone, it’s sent off to the lab and turns out not to be unheated then I will leave the “credit” with that dealer until something else comes up that I can offset. Sometimes I will pay 70% of the price if the stone and credit the remaining balance later - as part of a transaction negotiation.

When you buy stones frequently this is part of how you do business.

As I said before, when I buy stones from Sri Lanka, knowing the market, I assume all sales are final and ask for no refunds. I would either offset credit on new purchases or recoup funds by selling on the stone, either set or loose.

This is not a market geared towards single retail buyers.

I am happy to have credit with this seller so it seemed a kind thing to do to put another buyers mind at rest.

This inter-client funds flow may seem totally whacked to most of us but it’s not too unusual in the SL gem business - for all the reasons set out above. I’m attempting to be part of the solution if I can help people, not add fuel to the fear.

I’ve said it’s likely everyone will be made whole because I believe that is the most likely outcome. If you want to flaggelate me for that and tell me I’m “biased” and a victim blaming moron, that’s fine.

 

[AnastasiaBeaverhausen]

It was actually me who remitted funds to Spring Day to refund her...

I thought at the time I was refunding you. Not knowing anyone’s real name on PS.

This is even worse!

So lemme get this straight…

Wednesday at 2:30pm @Spring Day posts saying both she and I will be sharing our experiences with CeylonSapphireGems soon.

Then yesterday, Thursday night, CeylonSapphireGems sends a screenshot to her from you of the transfer confirmation for money that you thought was going to me. @Spring Day also receives 1st payment from you at that time.

Then at midnight today, I posted my thread saying how I didn't get a single penny.

This morning, @Spring Day received the remaining balance from you.

Then at 9am, you ask @Spring Day on my thread, "Are you still owed?", now knowing that you had actually sent the money to her instead.

Do you realize how bad the optics are here?

 

[Ionysis]

I had no idea who I was sending funds to. As I said, I thought it might be you. I asked if she had been paid and when she said she had I realised it was her not you that I remitted funds to. And was glad I could help out. The only reason I said it was me who sent the money - which actually puts ME at risk, because Spring Day has MY personal details from the remittance confirmation - was because I was getting a pile of crap on here and accused of being a bad person.

No good deed goes unpunished does it?! You try and do something kind and this is the reaction?! I believe in karma and paying it forward. Now I wish I hadn’t bothered.

The other person who sent money was thanked. But I’m the bad guy?!!!

Do you know what, I’ve tried to be kind and help someone out, tried to be reassuring and make you feel less anxious about getting your money back. I don’t even know you. Why do I even give a **edited by moderator for language**.

Good luck.

 

[AnastasiaBeaverhausen]

I had no idea who I was sending funds to. As I said, I thought it might be you. I asked if she had been paid and when she said she had I realised it was her not you that I remitted funds to. And was glad I could help out. The only reason I said it was me who sent the money - which actually puts ME at risk, because Spring Day has MY personal details from the remittance confirmation - was because I was getting a pile of crap on here and accused of being a bad person.

No good deed goes unpunished does it?! You try and do something kind and this is the reaction?! I believe in karma and paying it forward. Now I wish I hadn’t bothered.

The other person who sent money was thanked. But I’m the bad guy?!!!

Do you know what, I’ve tried to be kind and help someone out, tried to be reassuring and make you feel less anxious about getting your money back. I don’t even know you. Why do I even give a shit.

Good luck.

No. I'm shocked at your behavior, because you kept touting that CeylonSapphireGems is an honorable person. When in fact he was only able to meet @Spring Day's hard deadline that she had given him by having you cover his ass. Little did he and you know that'd I'd end up posting first.

 

[westofhere]

So an Instagram seller in Sri Lanka shared the bank accounts and personal info of Pricescope members with another Pricescope member, who did not see fit to tell the victims or report the seller? I’ll be reporting this and ask that Ionysis’ account be deleted. And I’ve screenshot her posts.

 

[Ionysis]

I also had no idea about any “hard deadline” and what was she going to do if he didn’t meet it? Get him extradited? Post on a forum? Do you think most of his sales are to PSers?

I made a payment, which was for a stone, then I asked him if that had made the purchaser whole or if there was more to be refunded. He said a further balance was required. I said I would send it and would use the credit on future purchases. I was trying to do a good thing!

I’ve no issues with this seller and I trust him with my money because I’ve known him a long time and have never been left out of pocket.

I voluntarily remitted funds because of what YOU wrote here to try and help YOU because YOU were so worried. It turned out I was helping someone else instead. Well, that’s fine. Given your posts above Im bloody glad I was helping someone **edited by moderator for language**

Im out. Whether you get your money back or not is not my problem. As I said. Good luck.

 

[Ionysis]

So an Instagram seller in Sri Lanka shared the bank accounts and personal info of Pricescope members with another Pricescope member, who did not see fit to tell the victims or report the seller? I’ll be reporting this and ask that Ionysis’ account be deleted. And I’ve screenshot her posts.

I’m not the only one FFS!! The other PSer got a thank you.

Don’t bother. I will be asking myself for my account to be deleted.

I’ve been a member here since 2015. All I’ve done is voluntarily sent my own money to help out a member who was out of pocket and distressed.

What an evil person I am.

 

[westofhere]

You willingly accepted the private financial information of forum members from a vendor with whom you have an ongoing financial relationship, and you did so without their knowledge or consent. I’d suggest you delete your account before it’s deleted for you.

 

[Ionysis]

So when Module does that it’s fine but when I do it it’s heinous?

 

[westofhere]

Reported, and screenshots shared on FB and IG. What kind of stone discount is Ionysis getting for participating in all of this, I wonder? What kind of human being says, “Sure, send me the private banking information of strangers who haven’t consented?”

 

[Ionysis]

What kind of person sends money out of their own pocket to give a stranger peace of mind. Exposing their OWN personal details and bank info in the process.

I already get optimal pricing because of the number of stones I purchase. There is nothing more in it for me.

Well as I said, no good deed goes unpunished. I wish I hadn’t bothered.

 

[Ionysis]

And Anastasia - if you’re not satisfied with he colour of a stone which has been certified as Cornflower Blue by GRS, the top lab in the coloured gemstone trade - at half the price you would pay in US, then I wonder what WOULD make you happy.

 

[westofhere]

I assume that will be your last post ever. Goodbye.

 

[cheegg]

At first, I thought this is just a buyer/seller relationship. But now, I have a feeling, just a feeling, it is more of a business relationship, the one that shares the same interests.


Interestingly, it only a risk when YOUR personal information is at others hand, but not the other way around…???

 

[qubitasaurus]

Guys that's a lot of conclusions to draw from a few lines of text. Expecially when the most straightforward reading of it is that she had something she wanted to purchase, and was happy to help make some people she had spent considerable time talking to online happier in the process. It also exposes her real name so it isn't exactly risk free for her either, and I can not see how she personally benefited in the process.

Many of us have a very long term relationship involving multiple purchases or window shopping with several vendors and jewelers. I have a few and have recommended them all here -- I would again without hesitstion. And I currently would like to know fussy kiki's jeweler very much. It has been one of the delights of pricescope, as most of the vendors I know I have been introduced to by other members of this forum -- they actually don't know how much I value the conversations I've had with them. I can not see anything currently other than the kindness I've already recieved from multiple pricescopers over the years, being played back again by someone who is trying to help and also to obliquely offer some reassurance.

 

[westofhere]

What’s interesting is that if you look back through her threads, she seems to have been the first to mention this seller, linking to his Instagram, saying how trustworthy he is, that she’s met him, etc etc. I wonder how much business she generated for him, and how much suffering for members here, and what she got in return?

Perhaps time to lock the thread while the administrators and their lawyers look it over.

 

[Frost]

Just to chime in.. Maybe I can help clear up a few misunderstandings!

Simple - the Sri Lankan government want wealth to stay in the country. There are many Sri Lankans living overseas with considerable wealth stuck in SL. If they were allowed to remove it, it could collapse the entire banking system. It is strict, there are no easy ways around it (or indeed any ways other than smuggling it out of the country).

The rules that enable private banks to arbitrarily stop any outgoing wire transfers to other countries are very recent. Sending a wire out even as late as two months ago wasn't even in question - and it still isn't at all times, it merely depends on the circumstances.

It isn't wealth creation or anything similar, it's just that the country has a runaway foreign debt problem that has been bad enough for years and has now finally gotten to the point where the government imposed further restrictions on the private sector to try and service their own obligations. It was being done to prop up the very shaky and overpriced Sri Lankan rupee for years, but it got worse recently due to Covid-related forex deficits from tourism shutdowns which then spilled over into import/export controls. It's still a few years away from Cyprus in 2013 though.

Knowing this - why do Sri Lankan vendors offer money back guarantees they cannot legally honour?

Quite a few people have PayPal, foreign bank accounts or trading partners/companies they rely on when it comes to refunds. The majority of the serious dealers do, at least, so the unfortunate Sri Lankan forex rules don't really apply and painting an entire country with the same brush based on Instagram and Facebook may not exactly give you the most accurate portrayal.

To give you an example, a whole bunch of dealers who visit Tucson every year deal with PayPal through a single completely legit B2B company in TX which facilitates incoming and outgoing transfers for a tiny fee (fraction of a percent).

Another major reason people will sometimes run into issues with refunds on social media is because many dealers sell stones they don't actually own - they are stones brokered from the live market daily, not owned stones.

So in such cases, even if the seller is actually completely willing to refund, they know that they won't be able to receive a refund from the person they brokered it from as locally refunds aren't possible at all except for enhancement discrepancies (no heat -> heat is something you can go to the police for). Come to think of it, this isn't unique to Sri Lanka at all, it's actually very common on social media globally.

The correct thing to do in such cases is one of three:
1) state that it isn't your stone (99.9% will not)
2) never offer stones you don't own
3) or understand that you must buy the stone yourself if you do.

Whether that happens depends on the seller, of course.

There are many cultural nuances here. Not least the fact that most gem dealers are not the mainly Buddhist Sinhalese but from the Muslim minority population where the sensitivities are slightly different.

This is a common misconception stemming from visits to Beruwala, since the town is ethnically homogenous so it's the impression people get. But Beruwala is distribution center. A trade center, if you will, where for the most part African gemstones come into the country.

The mining of gems, the vast majority of which is done in the central-eastern Sabaragamuwa province, has been almost entirely controlled by the majority-population Sinhalese for practically thousands of years - so the majority of dealers (and almost all mine owners) actually live either in the hills or in Colombo, the capital. Various documentaries and travelogues show these differences/peculiarities.

The cultural nuances mentioned here aren't so much due to not being able to say no, as not wanting to say no to potential business. That is individual, not a trait that millions of people share. For anyone thinking differently, I'd encourage you to visit various place in Sri Lanka with plenty of cash on hand and try offering terms that aren't in the seller's favour (like keeping the stone for inspection for a day). See how quickly, easily and often you'll get "no" on the spot. So being forthright (even abrasive!) isn't so much a cultural impossibility in Sri Lanka, more of an economic choice.


In closing... People, generalizing entire countries and in a few cases even continents based on visiting one or two places doesn't help anything. I understand that some generalization is necessary to simplify guidelines for forum members when working with various places abroad and I wouldn't call generalizations on here unhelpful so far, but gem dealers in Sri Lanka, Asia and even the States vary from this:

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/08/25/08/438B443100000578-4822304-image-a-1_1503645855770.jpg (bonus for those of you who get the reference)

To dealers who have more spare cash and gems than the rest of this thread put together. Burmese generals-style, only completely legal and not tied to exploitation.

So it's just that. The gem trade, like all other businesses, varies; nothing is black or white and there are plenty of dealers who can and will abide by Western business concepts in any given country, just like there are plenty who won't. Some genuinely want to but can't, some don't want to at all and will rather deal with visiting locals or Chinese buyers who adapt to local rules. And some can and do. It's like everywhere else really, one size doesn't fit all.

 

[HGar]

What’s interesting is that if you look back through her threads, she seems to have been the first to mention this seller, linking to his Instagram, saying how trustworthy he is, that she’s met him, etc etc. I wonder how much business she generated for him, and how much suffering for members here, and what she got in return?

Perhaps time to lock the thread while the administrators and their lawyers look it over.

As an outsider looking in - no dog in this fight - Westofhere, you seem to have a real bee in your bonnet about the other poster. You seem to have decided you are judge and jury of deciding that that poster is doing something nefarious.

Again I don’t know anyone here from a bar of soap and am starting to rethink about posting any further as some forum members just seem to attack over anything.

 

[Ionysis]

Yeah @westofhere im sure the admin with get their top legal counsel reviewing this threat immediately.

Big mouth and knows it all, for someone who has started four threads ever on this forum. You’d be a lot more careful if you lived where I do - the things you’re alleging about me online could get you jail time.

 

[icy_jade]

What’s interesting is that if you look back through her threads, she seems to have been the first to mention this seller, linking to his Instagram, saying how trustworthy he is, that she’s met him, etc etc. I wonder how much business she generated for him, and how much suffering for members here, and what she got in return?

Perhaps time to lock the thread while the administrators and their lawyers look it over.

I think this is uncalled for and unfair. You have made a lot of accusations where you have no evidence of. In real life, that’s defamation.

I’ve benefited from vendors recommended by posters, and in turn once in a while recommended some vendors that I trust. If you are going to accuse everyone of benefiting from such recommendations, then no one will dare to post in the future. I would hate for the CS community to collapse like that.

FWIW I’ve also bought like a mini store and get close to trade prices from vendors as a result. No extra benefit to me when I recommend those vendors and in fact I’ve incurred costs in the past to help PS-ers with purchases from those vendors. So I believe @Ionysis when she says that she doesn’t benefit as I can see that she buys enough to be considered a “trade regular”.

Am also wondering what’s happening here and why you are reacting so adversely.

 

[Ionysis]

Hand on heart I was just trying to help - because I could. I never thought I’d get so much unwarranted vitriol for that. Since when has paying money into a person’s bank account without their consent been a crime?!

Aside from collecting gemstones, outside of work my only other interests are animal rescue and managing and coordinating charitable donations for labour camps and battered women’s hostels. I try and help people when I can, mediate disputes and see both sides. I believe what goes around comes around and that if you do good for others the world becomes a better place.

It is absolutely horrible to be accused of acting for some personal benefit when I’ve done something, at my own cost and risk, to try to help BOTH sides of this horrible mess - both buyer and seller. Despite not having any close personal relationship with either of them.

 

[qubitasaurus]

As an outsider looking in - no dog in this fight - Westofhere, you seem to have a real bee in your bonnet about the other poster. You seem to have decided you are judge and jury of deciding that that poster is doing something nefarious.

Again I don’t know anyone here from a bar of soap and am starting to rethink about posting any further as some forum members just seem to attack over anything.

Sorry to be honest Id be also feeling this way if I was you. I can only think of saying that many of us know each other in real life and have friendships with people we met through PS, outside of this forum (if you want to get a feeling for this you can more or less intuit it from this thread). I wouldn't have built these relationships if I didn't trust many of the people here. Of course this doesn't mean trust us all willy nilly -- that'd be totally insane. And no forum is entirely commodious, so I couldn't honestly promise this wont happen from time to time.

 

[Snowbebe]

There are good sellers and bad sellers in every country. My jeweler in Hong Kong is super good and will always fix things for me until I am satisfied. There are also some jewelers I stopped going due to their services level. Hard to conclude whether a seller is honest or not based on their countries.

To be honest, as a Chinese, I also don’t like to deal with people in mainland China. Hard to tell if they are telling the truth or not.

There is so much bias against people in mainland China due to political reasons. And as you said there are good and bad jewelers in every country. I really feel as a bling forum, we all love blings and we come from different countries. please don’t make discriminatory generalization against 1.5 billion people here. You can of course share your bad experience with certain jewelers you have but they won’t represent all people of mainland China.

p.s. I am Chinese, grew up and live in North America (both Canadian and American) by the way but I have relatives living in Shanghai and lots of wonderful friends from HK, mainland China and Taiwan.

sorry Anastasia, didn’t mean to divert from your thread. I hope you get refund soon!!!

 

[MillieLou]

@Frost you are very knowledgeable about SL - I've got to ask... are you Ivan? (If you don't mind disclosing).

 

[Rfisher]

I think if I were able to intervene between a vendor and a forum member to help the forum member out
I’d ask the forum member well before I brought it up to the vendor.

I think consent of the customer that is your co-forum member is an important part here.
I get trying to be nice and help.
I get not advertising ‘charity work’

I could be in the same position of a PayPal go between two PS members, one outside the county. I would never presume to do so without asking the third PS member if they were ok with it, first. It’s personal information, period.

 

[fussykiki]

There is so much bias against people in mainland China due to political reasons. And as you said there are good and bad jewelers in every country. I really feel as a bling forum, we all love blings and we come from different countries. please don’t make discriminatory generalization against 1.5 billion people here. You can of course share your bad experience with certain jewelers you have but they won’t represent all people of mainland China.

p.s. I am Chinese, grew up and live in North America (both Canadian and American) by the way but I have relatives living in Shanghai and lots of wonderful friends from HK, mainland China and Taiwan.

sorry Anastasia, didn’t mean to divert from your thread. I hope you get refund soon!!!

I have no intention to discriminate against Mainland China. Why would I? I am part of them.

 

[Snowbebe]

I think this is uncalled for and unfair. You have made a lot of accusations where you have no evidence of. In real life, that’s defamation.

I’ve benefited from vendors recommended by posters, and in turn once in a while recommended some vendors that I trust. If you are going to accuse everyone of benefiting from such recommendations, then no one will dare to post in the future. I would hate for the CS community to collapse like that.

FWIW I’ve also bought like a mini store and get close to trade prices from vendors as a result. No extra benefit to me when I recommend those vendors and in fact I’ve incurred costs in the past to help PS-ers with purchases from those vendors. So I believe @Ionysis when she says that she doesn’t benefit as I can see that she buys enough to be considered a “trade regular”.

Am also wondering what’s happening here and why you are reacting so adversely.

This thread is getting more twisted. Even though I argued with @Ionysis on the other thread, I am not sure if she is what she is described as by some posters? That’s a lot of accusation. I would rather believe that most of us are just here because of the same interests in gems. But we certainly are very different in our ways of thinking and doing things.

I hope we can all share honest experiences with vendors in the forum. And the people who are suffering from the experiences like Anastasia can get a resolution soon.

 

[VividRed]

Sorry OP about that happened, it does suck, and the vendor did **** up. No doubts about it.

In a nutshell: don’t buy from a total stanger online who only accepts wire if you are not willing to accepting the risks (= possible unforeseen negative events) that come along.