Buying a diamond from a friend ......

[fmzip]

I had Brian recut a stone for me a couple of months ago. I will tell you that he will not guarantee that the stone ends up signature level or even ideal. It will be improved over what it was. He balances out improving the stone with retaining as much size as possible. I was extremely pleased with my recut. It did lose 20% of it's weight and that was pretty much his limit. I did not send it for regrading because it was a smaller stone and I had enough information on it and had no intent of ever selling it.

Here is my thread in case you are interested:

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/brian-gavin-re-cut-and-milgrain-bezel-pendant-redesign.160887/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/brian-gavin-re-cut-and-milgrain-bezel-pendant-redesign.160887/[/URL]

Somewhere else I posted before and after idealscope pictures and I will try to find that thread, too.

Found it:

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/details-on-a-diamond-re-cut.160957/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/details-on-a-diamond-re-cut.160957/[/URL]

Note: This is an excellent example of a stone that was appraised as "good" cut and improved extremely by BGD!

If a signature level or even ideal isn't a guarantee, does this mean I could still end up with a diamond with a good cut rating by GIA?

If I buy this stone from my friend, it will be before the cut....

 

[fmzip]

I had Brian recut a stone for me a couple of months ago. I will tell you that he will not guarantee that the stone ends up signature level or even ideal. It will be improved over what it was. He balances out improving the stone with retaining as much size as possible. I was extremely pleased with my recut. It did lose 20% of it's weight and that was pretty much his limit. I did not send it for regrading because it was a smaller stone and I had enough information on it and had no intent of ever selling it.

Here is my thread in case you are interested:

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/brian-gavin-re-cut-and-milgrain-bezel-pendant-redesign.160887/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/brian-gavin-re-cut-and-milgrain-bezel-pendant-redesign.160887/[/URL]

Somewhere else I posted before and after idealscope pictures and I will try to find that thread, too.

Found it:

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/details-on-a-diamond-re-cut.160957/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/details-on-a-diamond-re-cut.160957/[/URL]

Note: This is an excellent example of a stone that was appraised as "good" cut and improved extremely by BGD!

Does this potentially mean I can end up with a diamond that could still be graded by GIA as "a good" cut ?

To answer the other question posed, If I buy her ring, it will be cut on my dime.....

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I think it is extremely unlikely that it would be recut by BGD and still remain a "Good" cut. I would certainly expect a minimum of very good and probably excellent (just not necessarily perfect hearts and arrows). But Brian will give you a projection of what he plans to do, as you can see on my thread, and you have an idea of what he is aiming for before you commit. He will not make guarantees, though. It's not possible.

 

[fmzip]

I think it is extremely unlikely that it would be recut by BGD and still remain a "Good" cut. I would certainly expect a minimum of very good and probably excellent (just not necessarily perfect hearts and arrows). But Brian will give you a projection of what he plans to do, as you can see on my thread, and you have an idea of what he is aiming for before you commit. He will not make guarantees, though. It's not possible.

Hmmmm........

I definitely like the hearts and arrows dazzle but my lady, the rings she sees in Tiffany's are plenty to her liking. I like the 2 carat stones, she would be content with a 1.25ct out the case....

So would a "very good cut" stone be comparable to what she is drawn to in the Tiffany's display?

 

[slg47]

yes, if it is recut it will most likely end up as excellent/ideal cut. I would send it off to ask about the projected recut.

 

[fmzip]

yes, if it is recut it will most likely end up as excellent/ideal cut. I would send it off to ask about the projected recut.

I am waiting for my friends reply if she is gong to allow me to send it out before buying it....I shouldn't offer to buy it without Brian looking at it first, correct?

 

[denverappraiser]

The curse of the cutting business is that ALL they can do is subtract. A skilled cutter is pretty good at looking at a stone and predicting what they would like the results to be if everything goes well, but if something doesn't go well, like they come across a knot or there is a chip in the process, all they can do is subtract MORE in order to resolve it. That's why they don't guarantee a particular result. Mostly they're pretty good at coming out at or near what they expected but there is no guarantee.

That's why the advice of letting the SELLER do the cutting process, if they decide that the stone will be most valuable and/or most saleable that way. That's their decision. Presumably you want to do this as a tradeoff that, by assuming more of the risk, you'll get a better price on the final stone. Perhaps you will, and the issue is largely one of your own risk tollerance as well as that of the seller. That's your call, and yes, there's money on the table here if you can buy it right, but it's just not the simple question you're hoping for. Talk to a pro who can actually see the stone, get the facts and make your decision. Tain't your problem but the seller would be wise to do the same.

 

[fmzip]

The curse of the cutting business is that ALL they can do is subtract. A skilled cutter is pretty good at looking at a stone and predicting what they would like the results to be if everything goes well, but if something doesn't go well, like they come across a knot or there is a chip in the process, all they can do is subtract MORE in order to resolve it. That's why they don't guarantee a particular result. Mostly they're pretty good at coming out at or near what they expected but there is no guarantee.

That's why the advice of letting the SELLER do the cutting process, if they decide that the stone will be most valuable and/or most saleable that way. That's their decision. Presumably you want to do this as a tradeoff that, by assuming more of the risk, you'll get a better price on the final stone. Perhaps you will, and the issue is largely one of your own risk tollerance as well as that of the seller. That's your call, and yes, there's money on the table here if you can buy it right, but it's just not the simple question you're hoping for. Talk to a pro who can actually see the stone, get the facts and make your decision. Tain't your problem but the seller would be wise to do the same.

She isn't willing to put money into a stone she may never find a buyer for. I think she would simply like to get the most she can as the stone stands. I myself would like to be fair but certainly would like to not overpay either

I don't mind gambling and am risk tolerant to a degree provided the odds aren't that that I come up with dust in the end

 

[mrssalvo]

I'd offer 5K and then send it to Brian. I think if he can keep it over 1.5 and upgrade the cut to very good or excellentl you'd get an amazing deal and a killer stone. win/win....

 

[loriken214]

I'm late to the party....what's the latest?

Lori

 

[Mayk]

I think he is drinking the punch...now. I hope it turns out fabulous!!!

 

[fmzip]

I think he is drinking the punch...now. I hope it turns out fabulous!!!

I've always liked the punch as I've said earlier......it just can't be to spiked for the lady's palette ....

My friend hasn't decided yet if she is willing to have it sent to Brian....I might have to buy it first which seems a bit risky. However she just had an appraisal done just last week....

It's simply been a simple decision on "price" for this specific diamond if i decide to pull the trigger. I really would like Brian's input.

 

[karpouzi]

The risk of having her do the recut is that it comes back as a knockout and she realizes she can get a lot more for it than you're offering. I agree with buying it and then sending it to Brian yourself. One thing you might consider as a compromise is to make the price dependent on the results of the recut, e.g., offer her $5000 upfront for the stone and agree to give her an extra $1-2000 if it comes back VG or Excellent, that sort of thing (just pulling those numbers out of nowhere). Of course, don't do this if she's willing to take a good price with no adjustment!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I would settle on a price and not involve her in the recut at all. She is selling a "good" cut stone and what you do with it afterwards is your business. You take the risk and you reap the rewards of the recut! Even if it went below 1.5 cts. you'd still be coming out with a great deal if you paid $5000-7000 for the diamond.

 

[fmzip]

Looks like this this deal is dead......she thinks $11,500 is fair.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Ugh!!! She is probably going to have a tough time getting that much but she could try. $7500 is probably fair. But I just couldn't go higher than that with the unknowns about the recut.

 

[slg47]

Ugh!!! She is probably going to have a tough time getting that much but she could try. $7500 is probably fair. But I just couldn't go higher than that with the unknowns about the recut.

you could always offer to pay that much AFTER the recut...have her send it to get recut?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Ugh!!! She is probably going to have a tough time getting that much but she could try. $7500 is probably fair. But I just couldn't go higher than that with the unknowns about the recut.

you could always offer to pay that much AFTER the recut...have her send it to get recut?

My problem with that is that the stone's value (or sale potential) has the potential to be increased after the recut. I think she'll have a harder time getting the price she wants with the cut as it is now. I think it is to his advantage to buy it as is. But that's just my opinion.

 

[fmzip]

But buying it for $11.5K....... Isn't that way too much?

Ideally, my GF would take any ring out of a Tiffany' display case from 1.25-1.5CT. So with that, maybe I should switch gears and find a diamond that would "equal" a Tiffany's stone. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[tradergirl]

I'd pay that to a private seller about the same time winged porcines were viewed passing past my window.

There is no ready market for her at her price. You have cash. She wants cash. Let her stew for a few weeks.

 

[mrssalvo]

yes, $11,500 is way too much. If you have time to wait you could see if after she sits on it for a while with no offers she'd be willing to take a lower cash offer from you. If not, I'd go to a vender with a nice upgrade policy and start from scratch. Brian Gavin make a beautiful Tiffany replica so you could get the stone and setting both from him. Tiffany quality but not the Tiffany mark-up.

 

[fmzip]

yes, $11,500 is way too much. If you have time to wait you could see if after she sits on it for a while with no offers she'd be willing to take a lower cash offer from you. If not, I'd go to a vender with a nice upgrade policy and start from scratch. Brian Gavin make a beautiful Tiffany replica so you could get the stone and setting both from him. Tiffany quality but not the Tiffany mark-up.

Yes, I was thinking Brian Gavin but what stone cut is comparable to Tiffany's. I know I can get better but like I said, the ring is for her, not for me. It has to be what she likes.

 

[mrssalvo]

yes, $11,500 is way too much. If you have time to wait you could see if after she sits on it for a while with no offers she'd be willing to take a lower cash offer from you. If not, I'd go to a vender with a nice upgrade policy and start from scratch. Brian Gavin make a beautiful Tiffany replica so you could get the stone and setting both from him. Tiffany quality but not the Tiffany mark-up.

Yes, I was thinking Brian Gavin but what stone cut is comparable to Tiffany's. I know I can get better but like I said, the ring is for her, not for me. It has to be what she likes.

well, Tiffany sells some excellent stones and some nice stones. Not all are H&A's but none are extremely poorly cut either IMO. You can go with Brian's signature cut stones and it will sparkle like Tiffanys. there have been pricescopers who have actually been into Tiffany's with their Brian Gavin rings and even the Tiffany staff thought the ring was one of theirs.

 

[Christina...]

yes, $11,500 is way too much. If you have time to wait you could see if after she sits on it for a while with no offers she'd be willing to take a lower cash offer from you. If not, I'd go to a vender with a nice upgrade policy and start from scratch. Brian Gavin make a beautiful Tiffany replica so you could get the stone and setting both from him. Tiffany quality but not the Tiffany mark-up.

Agreed, no way is she going to get that much money for the stone. Her appraiser already told her she would be lucky to get half. Let her sit on it for a couple weeks, when she comes back to accept your offer, give her $500 less than your original offer.

 

[0-0-0]

yes, $11,500 is way too much. If you have time to wait you could see if after she sits on it for a while with no offers she'd be willing to take a lower cash offer from you. If not, I'd go to a vender with a nice upgrade policy and start from scratch. Brian Gavin make a beautiful Tiffany replica so you could get the stone and setting both from him. Tiffany quality but not the Tiffany mark-up.

Yes, I was thinking Brian Gavin but what stone cut is comparable to Tiffany's. I know I can get better but like I said, the ring is for her, not for me. It has to be what she likes.

I found this video helpful: http://www.vimeo.com/21825120

The stone in the video that was on consignment: http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/7898

From what I have seen in stores, Tiffany's diamonds vary a lot in cut quality. The one in the video is among one of Tiffany's better cut ones compared to the ones I have seen. A few have noticeable leakage, and the majority don't have clear arrows like the branded stones from BGD/WF/JA/GOG.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Brian's signature stones, WhiteFlash's ACA's, and Good Old Gold's Hearts and Arrows stones are all excellent choices and equal to or better than Tiffany. All three have Tiffany replica settings. (I can recommend them all because I have purchased from all of them.)

Here are some examples of stones available:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8474/

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8230/

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8068/

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8326/

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2618015.htm

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2632202.htm

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2631628.htm

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/diamond-detail/?product_id=AGS-104051364013

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/diamond-detail/?product_id=AGS-104049676010

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/diamond-detail/?product_id=AGS-104050213007

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/diamond-detail/?product_id=BLAGS-104052029007

 

[fmzip]

^^^^^^ Awesome...thanks for the links!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

You're welcome! Let us know if you have any questions!

 

[TristanC]

Hello, late to the party.

I'm going to be a contrarian here a little. It was never explicitly stated but did you bring your partner to tiffany's and ask her what she would like? Or if she has hinted that something in the 1.25ct to 1.5ct range from any of tiffany's shelves would be perfect?

Reason being, she might actually be hoping and wishing for a tiffany stone. I doubt that she is actually saying "the center stone I want should match a Tiffany stone in terms of cut quality and optics and should score in the same acceptance band of the HCA or that the aset image should be better and no worse than a tiffany stone". If that's what she's saying, she would probably have a PS forum nick, and would be reading and respondind to your posts right now! I doubt this is the case.

To 99% of the women out there, a Tiffany diamond is special. Because it is Tiffany's. If you've never had the pleasure of presenting one to your lady before: teal box, white ribbon... works every time. I hear good things about Harry Winston packaging as well but they're new in town.

The sad news is that Tiffany is NOT a better diamond. Merely a better brand. It is also a very very expensive diamond. Most of the links are overkill in terms of quality of cut vs the average tiffany stone. I've seen a few first hand, and I can tell you they were in the D-H colour range, with average Very Good cut gradings to Ideal. But the stones don't show a strong hearts and arrows image.

They are typically very pretty in comparison to the bulk of the offerings in your mainstream brick and motar stores, but they aren't the level of perfection that PS forum people tend to crave. I'm new to the forum... that I ended up here and gravitated towards eightstar/solasfera/octavia asschers etc just shows that I'm the kind of cut nut that loves being in like company.

I'm just saying, if she wants a tiffany - you might be better off going that route. If she just wants a diamond that is as pretty or better than a tiffany? Those sites will definitely leave a big smile on her face. Hope you're enjoying your search more lately.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Looks like this this deal is dead......she thinks $11,500 is fair.

tell her to "keep on dreaming".