Buying a diamond from a friend ......

[risingsun]

I'm starting to feel badly for the "friend" from whom the OP wants to buy a diamond for the cheapest amount possible. To the "friend": unless you need the $5000, which you evidently do not, why not trade in your ring for a nice pair of diamond studs, a pendant, or whatever you like. The market in which you will get the greatest value for your ring is to trade up to another piece of jewelry. If your finances permit, that's what I would do--and have done. The OP isn't planning to do you any favors

 

[fmzip]

I'm starting to feel badly for the "friend" from whom the OP wants to buy a diamond for the cheapest amount possible. To the "friend": unless you need the $5000, which you evidently do not, why not trade in your ring for a nice pair of diamond studs, a pendant, or whatever you like. The market in which you will get the greatest value for your ring is to trade up to another piece of jewelry. If your finances permit, that's what I would do--and have done. The OP isn't planning to do you any favors

I started this thread asking what a fair value would be to offer for my friend ring. I didn't know anything on price which is why I came to this forum. Implying that I was trying to be anything other than considerate is quite insulting with the"friend" comment.

If the group here told me that a reasonable price to offer would be "xxxx", I'd offer that. It was suggested that I offer her between $4000-$7500, so I offered $7000 to which she replied, $11,500 is what she was hoping for. I asked the forum if $11,500 was too much. I haven't heard from anyone that that is something I should consider, particularly if I am going to have it recut.

 

[fmzip]

Hello, late to the party.

I'm going to be a contrarian here a little. It was never explicitly stated but did you bring your partner to tiffany's and ask her what she would like? Or if she has hinted that something in the 1.25ct to 1.5ct range from any of tiffany's shelves would be perfect?

Reason being, she might actually be hoping and wishing for a tiffany stone. I doubt that she is actually saying "the center stone I want should match a Tiffany stone in terms of cut quality and optics and should score in the same acceptance band of the HCA or that the aset image should be better and no worse than a tiffany stone". If that's what she's saying, she would probably have a PS forum nick, and would be reading and respondind to your posts right now! I doubt this is the case.

To 99% of the women out there, a Tiffany diamond is special. Because it is Tiffany's. If you've never had the pleasure of presenting one to your lady before: teal box, white ribbon... works every time. I hear good things about Harry Winston packaging as well but they're new in town.

The sad news is that Tiffany is NOT a better diamond. Merely a better brand. It is also a very very expensive diamond. Most of the links are overkill in terms of quality of cut vs the average tiffany stone. I've seen a few first hand, and I can tell you they were in the D-H colour range, with average Very Good cut gradings to Ideal. But the stones don't show a strong hearts and arrows image.

I'm just saying, if she wants a tiffany - you might be better off going that route. If she just wants a diamond that is as pretty or better than a tiffany? Those sites will definitely leave a big smile on her face. Hope you're enjoying your search more lately.

Let me explain further.

Her and I have been through alot of stores. First store had a wide selection including the hearts on fire brand. When she and I left that store, she said she thought the "hearts on fire" was certainly nice. And when I popped a 1.75ct ring on her finger, she said it was too ostentatious and she would never feel comfortable wearing something like that and pointed to a 1.25 CT.

Then we proceeded to go to a higher end jewelry store and explain that we just saw "hearts on fire". We asked if they carried that brand as well. It was explained that that was simply a brand name which signifies a "perfectly cut stone" . With that we look at other diamonds which too looked very very nice. She preferred what we now saw in this store again gravitating toward a 1.25CT stone

Then we strolled into Tiffany's. All the rings in the display case looked marvelous. She loved the the classic Tiffany setting. Then she saw the price tags and said this store was not for us and we left.

Then I found Pricescope.....

So I began "reaseraching", finding out that Tiffany's wasn't all that and a bag of chips. You indeed indeed you could get more stone, for much much less. I explained to her that the Tiffany setting was a setting we could get practically anywhere

Then I showed her pictures of perfectly cut stones, explaining color cut and clarity to her. All of it meant nothing to her. She thought I was getting too analytical about things, (my usual tendency)

So back to the other high end jewelry store we went. I wanted to simply see if stone color had any impact to her. Not much. "I" color grade she thought maybe she would see a difference, they all looked the same to her......But interestingly, those 1.25CT stones look small now.

I do think she would love a ring from Tiffany's, what girl wouldn't? That's were value comes into play for me. Granted the name is huge, the "box" has the impact factor is well. But I can't see settling for a smaller stone there just because of the price factor. Knowing that I could get a bigger better stone for less is now the thorn in my side.

Budgetwise, there really is no budget per se. But if I am in the 1.5CT range, it does seem a bit wasteful to both of us going to Tiffany's. It certainly wouldn't break the bank if we did.

We are both in our mid forties. She was already married for 25 years. I think she would simply like a ring, nothing chintzy,but certainly it doesn't have to be the holy grail or the "punch" that I refer to that this forum is usually serving. That isn't a derogatory comment, it just simply means all this stuff discussed here is irrelevant to her. If it was for me, I would have to get into all the details like this group gets into.

I hope that clarifies things.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

fmzip, then from what you have said, you will be in the perfect zone to get her a hearts and arrows diamond between 1.25 and 1.5 carats! I think all the ones I listed were between G and I color. I happen to like H color, personally, for the value in larger sizes without getting too low in color. But many here have I and J color as well because that allows even larger sizes for the money. I can list more stones for you in the 1.5 to 1.6 range if you'd like, but there is a large price jump at that point and I was uncertain of your price requirements. Incidentally, I do have a diamond solitaire and got my wedding band from Tiffany's. And that is kind of a fun way to have the Tiffany's experience without drastically overpaying for an e-ring!

 

[fmzip]

Thanks for the input.

But is a hearts and arrow diamond necessary based on what I've explained? Are Tiffany's diamonds to that level of perfection?

I was thinking that if they weren't, then maybe I could get in the 1.5CT range with a comparable cut stone. My only pre-requisite, it must be eye clean. I agree, H seems to be the right color grade as well from a value stand point

 

[slg47]

Thanks for the input.

But is a hearts and arrow diamond necessary based on what I've explained? Are Tiffany's diamonds to that level of perfection?

I was thinking that if they weren't, then maybe I could get in the 1.5CT range with a comparable cut stone.

yes you can get an excellent cut non H&A. what do you think you would prefer? or what do you think she would prefer? it seems like your experience at jewelery stores may have been swayed by slogans/sales people/lighting/overall experience.

i would try to get whatever would make her the most happy did she like the Tiffany's more because it was in Tiffany's? or was it some optical difference? i would be surprised if it was the latter because you were not comparing the HOF and Tiffany's side by side!

 

[fmzip]

Thanks for the input.

But is a hearts and arrow diamond necessary based on what I've explained? Are Tiffany's diamonds to that level of perfection?

I was thinking that if they weren't, then maybe I could get in the 1.5CT range with a comparable cut stone.

yes you can get an excellent cut non H&A. what do you think you would prefer? or what do you think she would prefer? it seems like your experience at jewelery stores may have been swayed by slogans/sales people/lighting/overall experience.

i would try to get whatever would make her the most happy did she like the Tiffany's more because it was in Tiffany's? or was it some optical difference? i would be surprised if it was the latter because you were not comparing the HOF and Tiffany's side by side!

My only pre-requisite, it must be eye clean. I agree, H seems to be the right color grade as well from a value stand point.

I think it is all a blur. She loves the classic platinum Tiffany setting. That is what she loved the most. If the diamond has similar fire and dazzle I think she'd be floored. Having a 1.5CT diamond on a Tiffany setting would be better than a 1.15-1.25CT from Tiffany's.

Quite honestly, she really just wants a ring

 

[0-0-0]

Thanks for the input.

But is a hearts and arrow diamond necessary based on what I've explained? Are Tiffany's diamonds to that level of perfection?

I was thinking that if they weren't, then maybe I could get in the 1.5CT range with a comparable cut stone.

Tiffany's diamonds are generally at least GIA Very Good cut.

The price jump in going from 1.25 - 1.49 to 1.5 carat and above within GIA Very Good cut is much bigger than going from GIA Very Good to GIA Excellent / AGS Ideal cut within the 1.25 - 1.49 carat range.

Keep in mind that even stones within GIA Excellent cut can vary a lot. AGS Ideal cut has a tighter range. https://www.pricescope.com/journal/laboratory_cut_grades_what_report_doesn%E2%80%99t_show

 

[Laila619]

Looks like this this deal is dead......she thinks $11,500 is fair.

That's crazy--way too much!

 

[fmzip]

Thanks for the input.

But is a hearts and arrow diamond necessary based on what I've explained? Are Tiffany's diamonds to that level of perfection?

I was thinking that if they weren't, then maybe I could get in the 1.5CT range with a comparable cut stone.

Tiffany's diamonds are generally at least GIA Very Good cut.

The price jump in going from 1.25 - 1.49 to 1.5 carat and above within GIA Very Good cut is much bigger than going from GIA Very Good to GIA Excellent / AGS Ideal cut within the 1.25 - 1.49 carat range.

Keep in mind that even stones within GIA Excellent cut can vary a lot. AGS Ideal cut has a tighter range. https://www.pricescope.com/journal/laboratory_cut_grades_what_report_doesn%E2%80%99t_show

Thanks for that link.

I think that is where things can get too scientific to some degree. If we aren't looking through a loupe and from at the closet 18 inches away (we are in our forties , 18 inches may be a fib ) I think alot of them begin to look the same.

Here is my summary of the first set of images in that link, #3 and #5 look off to me.

Against the white background, #4 looks off, the black background #4 looks off, against the skin, the two compared look the same.

Then if I look down the summary photos of the actual photos of each diamond, they all look similar. My GF thought the same thing when I first started showing her blown up photos of diamonds some time ago, like "what am I looking at??" I get what the data is conveying. The thing is visibly, it seems to become somewhat of a mind game. If there is not another diamond of reference next to the one you are currently viewing, these difference do seem somewhat negligible. The mind has no reference on the details but it does have reference if something is glaringly "bad" like the "blob of spit" reference earlier in this thread.

So I guess that is it. I don't want to pay for features that we don't even care about. I also think my GF may feel these too perfectly cut diamonds may look fake because of the lack of knowledge on the subject. This is something I am definitely guarding against in this purchase. Could the perfection factor could be a disappointment if I go too far with the cut grade? I realize that may sound odd to some people on the forum.

 

[denverappraiser]

Looks like this this deal is dead......she thinks $11,500 is fair.

She hired an appraiser and her appraiser told her SOMETHING. We dont' know what other than that she was provided a report that gave some retail replacement information. That appraiser is the ONLY person in this whole series who has actually seen the stone, actually assessed the marketplace and who, presumably, was providing his/her good council on what it is, what to do with it and how to maximize her own position in the deal. It's not about being 'fair'. SHE chose her appraiser and hopefuly she considers them trustworthy. We, of course, don't know what advice was given or whether or not that advice was any good but she's being sound to rely on it. It's nearly certain that she was told more than what appears in that report. I agree with many of the above that it seems unlikely that she'll realize this price but there are plenty of non-gemological attributes that go into pricing decisions and half the sellers get above average prices after all. Personally, I think you're better off letting this deal walk anyway but if you really really want it, I suspect it'll still be around in a few weeks. Perhaps the sellers motivations will change. Maybe not. Maybe she'll get it. Bully for her.

 

[fmzip]

^^^^^ I completely agree with you.

Can an appraiser put "anything" on a piece of paper? I noticed the notation on the bottom that it referenced a +/- variable of 25% of the $25,000 replacement value. So on the low end is this ring not worth $18750 on a retail level?

Just a question for conversation purposes. Again, I am not swayed to either direction for or against on this ring. It's simply just an option. If I were to recut it and it gets down to 1.50, could I simply have instead purchased a VG/EX SI1 F for $12,500? Is that the reason I should also walk away or is it that there is a high probability it will go lower than this in size then then stone wasn't worth it?

 

[0-0-0]

So I guess that is it. I don't want to pay for features that we don't even care about. I also think my GF may feel these too perfectly cut diamonds may look fake because of the lack of knowledge on the subject. This is something I am definitely guarding against in this purchase, the perfection factor could be a disappointment if I go too far with the cut grade. I realize that may sound odd to some people on the forum.

As long as you are making an informed decision, I think it's great that you are picking diamonds based on your preferences. I just want to add that what the link fail to capture is that the better cut, more symmetrical diamonds tend to perform better across a wider range of lighting. Check how the diamonds perform under bright lights, away from them, in sunlight, in the shades, in a dim room, etc. to get a better gauge of which diamonds you like more.

Back to your original question of judging the value of a diamond, I think it makes more sense to compare it against similarly graded stones on James Allen and Blue Nile with their extensive databases. Of course, you'll still need to take into account how the different settings and policies are worth to you.

 

[denverappraiser]

^^^^^ I completely agree with you.

Can an appraiser put "anything" on a piece of paper? I noticed the notation on the bottom that it referenced a +/- variable of 25% of the $25,000 replacement value. So on the low end is this ring not worth $18750 on a retail level?

Just a question for conversation purposes. Again, I am not swayed to either direction for or against on this ring. It's simply just an option. If I were to recut it and it gets down to 1.50, could I simply have instead purchased a VG/EX SI1 F for $12,500? Is that the reason I should also walk away or is it that there is a high probability it will go lower than this in size then then stone wasn't worth it?

I think you should walk away from this deal because it's a mistake to get into the cutting business for the vast majority of buyers. Most of the above are taking the position that, if the price is low enough, everything is worth buying. Maybe so, but that's not what you're looking for and it's CERTAINLY not what you're seller is lookig to do.

I'm unwilling to make assumptions about what cutting results you can expect but it's easy enough to use the database here to look up what discount retailers are charging for similar items based on whatever assumptions you choose to make.

Yes, an appraiser can put anything they want on a piece of paper. I would add to that the observation that anyone who wants can call themselves an appraiser. The secret is that client's don't have to care. 'Some guy said it's worth $50,000' may be true, but so what?

 

[0-0-0]

Just a question for conversation purposes. Again, I am not swayed to either direction for or against on this ring. It's simply just an option. If I were to recut it and it gets down to 1.50, could I simply have instead purchased a VG/EX SI1 F for $12,500? Is that the reason I should also walk away or is it that there is a high probability it will go lower than this in size then then stone wasn't worth it?

There are many options for comparable or better stones with a budget of $12,500 once it gets below 1.5 carat, all with generous vendor policies and without the risks of a re-cut.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8326/
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8282/
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2649053.htm
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/diamond-detail/?product_id=AGS-104051364017

 

[fmzip]

Yes, an appraiser can put anything they want on a piece of paper.

Wow!

With that, this deal with the second hand ring is dead unless I can send it out to Brian first.

 

[denverappraiser]

Yes, an appraiser can put anything they want on a piece of paper.

Wow!

With that, this deal with the second hand ring is dead unless I can send it out to Brian first.

THAT'S why it matters who you choose as an appraiser, why it's important to understand what their methodology is, and why it's important to be the client rather than some 3rd party. An appraisal is not the same as an appraisal report and a report taken out of context is of no use whatever. I point out that what you are asking of Brian is an appraisal. YOU are choosing him, and you made that choice based on his qualifications, his advertising and referals based on people you trust. The fact that he doesn't promote himself as an appraiser has no bearing whatever. That's as it should be and I would advise you to enter such a deal any other way.

 

[risingsun]

You have asked your friend to jump through a lot of hoops before you would consider buying her diamond. Perhaps she is asking a higher price to discourage anymore dialogue between the two of you...perhaps not. Since you have said that budget is not a problem for you, why not start over and buy a diamond that already has the specs you want. Please don't be concerned that a H&A will be "too perfect." It will be stunning, if it is a true H&A. Not all diamond cutters have the same level of expertise. Settle on a range of specs and the good people of PS will--and have--made suggestions. If you are not sure how to read an IS or ASET, we can help with that, too. Brian Gavin is an excellent resource for you. He knows beautiful diamonds and is a long time diamond cutter. He can work with you. The other vendors mentioned above can also assist you. This process doesn't have to be so frustrating or difficult.

 

[fmzip]

I am having a hard time deciphering which setting is comparable to Tiffany's classic knife edge platinum setting on White Flash and Good o Gold's website. I see there are 4 or 6 prongs too. Any links to the suggested styles would be extremely helpful.

Thanks

 

[diamondseeker2006]

http://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/classic-tiffany-style-knife-edge-solitaire-engagement-ring-713.htm

http://www.goodoldgold.com/SettingSearch/ (last two pictures on the top row)

 

[fmzip]

http://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/classic-tiffany-style-knife-edge-solitaire-engagement-ring-713.htm

http://www.goodoldgold.com/SettingSearch/ (last two pictures on the top row)

Thank you very much!

Is there a consensus as to which supplier has the best Tiffany replica? Tiffany's does not have a 6 prong setting, correct?

 

[slg47]

http://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/classic-tiffany-style-knife-edge-solitaire-engagement-ring-713.htm

http://www.goodoldgold.com/SettingSearch/ (last two pictures on the top row)

Thank you very much!

Is there a consensus as to which supplier has the best Tiffany replica? Tiffany's does not have a 6 prong setting, correct?

yes, Tiffany's does have a six-prong.
http://www.tiffany.com/Engagement/Item.aspx?GroupSKU=GRP10001#f+0/0/0/0/0/0

I like the BGD replica personally

 

[farmer gal]

This looks like a nice stone from WF

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2531930.htm

Tiffany solitaire
http://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/contemporary-tiffany-style-solitaire-engagement-ring-1416.htm

If you want some side stones
http://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/diamond-settings/tiffany-style-bead-set-diamond-engagement-ring-1006.htm

Some from JA, you would have to call to see if they are eye clean, they will also compare 3 diamonds for you to see which one is the best

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1380349.asp

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1371218.asp

Setting
http://www.jamesallen.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/diamond-solitaire-rings.html

Pictured with a diamond around the same size
http://www.jamesallen.com/engagement-rings/sold/solitaire-rings/3685/Round-Solitaire-Ring.html

 

[Laila619]

http://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/classic-tiffany-style-knife-edge-solitaire-engagement-ring-713.htm

http://www.goodoldgold.com/SettingSearch/ (last two pictures on the top row)

Thank you very much!

Is there a consensus as to which supplier has the best Tiffany replica? Tiffany's does not have a 6 prong setting, correct?

The Whiteflash classic Tiffany style knife edge solitaire is a *very* close replica to the Tiffany 6 prong. It's beautiful in person. Very low setting though, so make sure she likes low set rings.

 

[fmzip]

http://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/classic-tiffany-style-knife-edge-solitaire-engagement-ring-713.htm

http://www.goodoldgold.com/SettingSearch/ (last two pictures on the top row)

Thank you very much!

Is there a consensus as to which supplier has the best Tiffany replica? Tiffany's does not have a 6 prong setting, correct?

The Whiteflash classic Tiffany style knife edge solitaire is a *very* close replica to the Tiffany 6 prong. It's beautiful in person. Very low setting though, so make sure she likes low set rings.

Is the original Tiffany setting "low" like the whiteflash replica?

 

[Christina...]

yes, you'll find that almost all Tiffany and tiff like setting sit low. I find that you are less likely to catch your prongs with a head that sits lower to the finger. I have a higher set stone and I feel like I'm bashing the head into things all the time. Although many will tell you that you get used to the higher setting and wearing it becomes second nature. If you have a busy lifestyle though, I think I'd much prefer that lower traditional Tiffany setting.

 

[fmzip]

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2666577.htm
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2650812.htm

What are the thoughts on the two stones?

 

[crbl999]

http://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/classic-tiffany-style-knife-edge-solitaire-engagement-ring-713.htm

http://www.goodoldgold.com/SettingSearch/ (last two pictures on the top row)

Thank you very much!

Is there a consensus as to which supplier has the best Tiffany replica? Tiffany's does not have a 6 prong setting, correct?

yes, Tiffany's does have a six-prong.
http://www.tiffany.com/Engagement/Item.aspx?GroupSKU=GRP10001#f+0/0/0/0/0/0

I like the BGD replica personally

Ditto.

 

[fmzip]

I like the BGD version as well. I would like to purchase the entire ring through one supplier

Unfortunately, it seems that there is a big gap in Signature Hearts & Arrows stone selections between 1.3 and 1.5 on the BGD website.

 

[crbl999]

I like the BGD version as well. I would like to purchase the entire ring through one supplier

Unfortunately, it seems that there is a big gap in Signature Hearts & Arrows stone selections between 1.3 and 1.5 on the BGD website.

You can also give them a call or an email to find out when they are expecting more stones.