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BrillanceScope a load of BS??

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sparkles

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
May 24, 2002
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662
I spoke to my diamond guy today. He has had several decades worth of experience. He is a wholesaler not a shopfront. I was asking him about Sarin reports and BrillanceScope. He said all the sarin report is, is a machine generated report. When I asked about the BrillanceScope he seemed unsure and answered with, "All these reports I am asking about are a marketing ploy to get more of a premium out of customers for a particular stone". Same goes for H&A and Royal Asscher.

I was asking in particular about Emerald cuts and said I wanted something from 1.24 to 1.4 ltwidth ratio. He didn't understand this and said he needed percentage ratios I was after. ie 60:40% he suggested after I miscalculated the mm. I worked this out to be 1.5 ratio. He said that is the perfect ratio, what emeralds should be and as a result would not need to run any tests.

I'm unsure now. He said he cannot guarantee that he could find me a 2.37 carat GVS2 stone. Only somewhere between 2.2 and 2.4. He would have to source from his overseas branch. He quoted me prices per carat that were a little on the high side. I am pulled to deal with him because of his 100% buy back - upgrade deal he gives me.

I am not ready to buy a stone for another month. My husband is in the process of waiting to see if he will be forced into early retirement. I suggested if early retirement did occur that the house renovations would get priority - call me insane. If not - well the money's on the ring.

So what does everyone think??? Does anyone agree that Sarin, BrillanceScope and Firescope are a load of BS?????

Sparkles
:errrr: :confused:
 

lawmax

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Dec 31, 1999
Messages
1,317
You can do a search here on the brilliancescope by clicking on the search button in the menu bar above. It has not been shown by any independent testing facility to have any credibility. Time will tell.

As for the other instruments: The sarin machine measures the diamond's proportions. It has a small margin of variability.

The Firescope is a simple instrument to detect light leakage in a diamond. Garry Holloway based his portable ideal scope on the Firescope. Few dealers will know about it since it is only available to 8* dealers. 8* uses a version of the firescope as a cutting guidance tool. You can read more about it here and on www.eightstar.com: https://www.pricescope.com/eightstar_beginning.asp

I would suggest that you find a more knowledgable dealer. Look for someone less "old school". Knowledge is power to the consumer.
 

Caratz

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
222
The Brilliance Scope has its limitations, but the concept of measuring and evaluating light return is a good one. After all, you don't care about the *theoretical* performance of a diamond based on a mathematical formula -- you care about how it actually looks.

The main limitation of the Brilliance Scope is that it only evaluates light from 6 positions. Over time I suspect that another company will develop a machine that has a moving camera that can evaluate light from many many more positions, but for now the Brilliance Scope is the best way to get an idea of how a stone "performs" without actually seeing the stone.
 

lawmax

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Dec 31, 1999
Messages
1,317
----------------
On 6/6/2002 10:48:32 AM



The Brilliance Scope has its limitations, but the concept of measuring and evaluating light return is a good one. After all, you don't care about the *theoretical* performance of a diamond based on a mathematical formula -- you care about how it actually looks.

The main limitation of the Brilliance Scope is that it only evaluates light from 6 positions. Over time I suspect that another company will develop a machine that has a moving camera that can evaluate light from many many more positions, but for now the Brilliance Scope is the best way to get an idea of how a stone "performs" without actually seeing the stone.
----------------


I would definitely disagree with the notion that the BS is the best way to get an idea about a diamond's light performance.

Use your eyes.
 

Caratz

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
222
lawmax . . . I think you missed the last five words of my last post.

If you are buying online, then I think that the Brilliance Scope tells you something important that numbers alone cannot . . .
 

DiamondGuy

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 6, 2002
Messages
3
SARIN REPORTS ARE HELPFUL, EVERYTHING ELSE I DOUBT.. IF YOU GET A SARIN 0 THAT IS THE BEST.
 

lawmax

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Dec 31, 1999
Messages
1,317
----------------
On 6/6/2002 11:03:02 AM



lawmax . . . I think you missed the last five words of my last post.

If you are buying online, then I think that the Brilliance Scope tells you something important that numbers alone cannot . . .
----------------


I'm not going to argue with you, but I still disagree with the validity of that instrument.
 

lawmax

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Dec 31, 1999
Messages
1,317
----------------
On 6/6/2002 12:28:19 PM

SARIN REPORTS ARE HELPFUL, EVERYTHING ELSE I DOUBT.. IF YOU GET A SARIN 0 THAT IS THE BEST.
----------------


An AGS 0 cut grade is not necessarily the best. There are diamonds with steep/deep crown and pavilion angles that still get an AGS 0 cut grading that leak lots of light. Read the tutorial here. AGS is aware of this and is currently working on a light performance based cut grading system with the aid of EightStar Diamond Company.
 

Caratz

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
222
oldminer Dave,

I am curious to know what you think of the Billiance Scope, and what you think the future holds for the next generation diamond evaluation tools.

Thanks!
 

buttercup

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 19, 2002
Messages
87
He said all the sarin report is, is a machine generated report. When I asked about the BrillanceScope he seemed unsure and answered with, "All these reports I am asking about are a marketing ploy to get more of a premium out of customers for a particular stone". Same goes for H&A and Royal Asscher.

yes, a sarin is a machine generated report. and...?
i don't understand why he told like it was a bad thing. when i stand on the scale to see how much i weigh, the number that comes back to me is a 'machine generated report'...that's all a sarin is, a measuring machine. i think it's important to know all the measurements of your stone. the brilliancescope is questionable. i think it's a good device to maybe rule out stones (say if something scored low in all three categories), but beyond that I don't know how much I trust it.
and some might argue that H&A is just a marketing ploy. fine. but Royal Asscher is a patented cut, it's special. i also think the eightstar is special.

I was asking in particular about Emerald cuts and said I wanted something from 1.24 to 1.4 ltwidth ratio. He didn't understand this and said he needed percentage ratios I was after. ie 60:40% he suggested after I miscalculated the mm. I worked this out to be 1.5 ratio. He said that is the perfect ratio, what emeralds should be and as a result would not need to run any tests.

huh? first of all, how can this guy tell you what YOU like. i personally like emeralds with a 1.5 ratio, but others like them with a smaller ratio. that's up to you. i don't think emeralds 'should' be any ratio. it's not like a princess, which 'should' be square. emeralds are rectangular...so do you like fat emeralds or skinny ones? that's your preference, not his.

I'm unsure now. He said he cannot guarantee that he could find me a 2.37 carat GVS2 stone. Only somewhere between 2.2 and 2.4. He would have to source from his overseas branch. He quoted me prices per carat that were a little on the high side. I am pulled to deal with him because of his 100% buy back - upgrade deal he gives me.

I wouldn't worry about the fact he can't find you EXACTY 2.37 G VS2...but I don't know if I'd feel comfortable with someone that judges a stone purely on it's length to width ratio...that's dumb. what if a stone had 1.5 ratio and a depth of 80%? it's still 'perfect' to him? you might want to try contacting jan/brad at diamondbrokersoffl.com or jonathan at goodoldgold.com...i know they both have 100% lifetime upgrade policies. and their prices (especially DBOF) are really competitive. Or if he finds you something you like, but can't provide the sarin, then have him send it to Oldminer before you commit to it.
 

sparkles

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
May 24, 2002
Messages
662
Thanks for the informative posts.

Seems in general that brillancescope can't be the sole method to rely on for purchasing a particular stone. Can the same be said for the Firescope? Sorry I did read all the material, but have forgotten what this is used for.

I have looked at both DBOF and Goodoldgold's website and leaning with going with this option. But fearful about forking over so much cash without having stone in hand. Means I may have to get on a plane...

Okay, so these are the things I should be looking for;

a. GIA cert - measurements falling under 2A or 2B (my preference)
b. Cross reference these stats with Sarin and brillancescope performance.

I guess then this is failproof???? The send the stone to be appraised by Dave Atlas, is that correct?

I have seen some brillance scope reports on Goodoldgold that have emeralds coming out very high on all 3 light tests. As I still like the sparkle of the RB but want something unique now, these light test results are important to me.

sparkles
 

lawmax

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Dec 31, 1999
Messages
1,317
You can't compare the BS results for rounds with the results for other shapes. It compares emerald cuts to emerald cuts, rounds to rounds, etc.
 
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