Bow tie? Is this a nice oval Diamond?
- Thread starter TLW
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This link seems to require a download. Is there a direct link to a website to avoid that?
I apologize I can’t seem to do it another way?
freddyboston
Brilliant_Rock
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0.72 Carat Oval Diamond G Color VVS1 Clarity Very Good Cut | Ritani
0.72 Carat Oval Earth Diamond VG Cut G Color VVS1 Clarity with diamond report number GIA #3525462963
www.ritani.com
Loupe360
Heres links to video
0.72 Carat Oval Diamond G Color VVS1 Clarity Very Good Cut | Ritani
0.72 Carat Oval Earth Diamond VG Cut G Color VVS1 Clarity with diamond report number GIA #3525462963
Thank you!
TXwidow
Shiny_Rock
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Ibrakeforpossums
Ideal_Rock
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What do you think of the Diamond shown?
Dreamer_D
Super_Ideal_Rock
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It is a very typical 8 main (rotated) oval (not bad but not the best either IMO).
Here is an 8 main not rotated, (arrows go through the center) oval. What do you think of this one?
Here is an 8 main not rotated, (arrows go through the center) oval. What do you think of this one?
Husband purchased first shown to see in person- I am thinking this Diamond is less likely to have a severe Bowie, can you please give thoughts on this one?
www.ritani.com
0.75 Carat Oval Diamond G Color VS1 Clarity Very Good Cut | Ritani
0.75 Carat Oval Earth Diamond VG Cut G Color VS1 Clarity with diamond report number GIA #6515812497
www.ritani.com
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Husband purchased first shown to see in person- I am thinking this Diamond is less likely to have a severe Bowie, can you please give thoughts on this one?
0.75 Carat Oval Diamond G Color VS1 Clarity Very Good Cut | Ritani
0.75 Carat Oval Earth Diamond VG Cut G Color VS1 Clarity with diamond report number GIA #6515812497
Any* 8 main rotated oval you pick is going to have that area through the center. That area will go dark in bright light (and give
what most people call a bow-tie).
Here is what the ASET looks like for an 8 main rotated oval. It is that bright red area that returns light really well that will make it go
dark through the center. Plus, the facets around that area are not returning light that well, so they make the bow-tie area stand
out even more. This is a sample ASET and not of the stones you posted above.
The oval below is the one you posted above (.75). You can see the mains that cause the bow-tie-ish area. What do you see that
makes you think the bow-tie wont be as bad as the first stone you posted? I think you would need an ASET of both stones
and then would need to pick them apart to tell which one would have less of a bow-tie. Ultimately, they both have that
cut pattern and will have the darkness through the center (so "less" between these two stones is somewhat irrelevant, IMO).
Many people own this type of oval...they just make peace with the cut and understand that it is the nature of the cut, unless you
are willing to go with a different cut pattern in an oval (like a 4 main, 6 main, or an 8 main, not rotated).
What do you mean by not rotated? How to find online, or what proportions would help in finding this particular cut? I read the 6 pattern is rare.. I understand all ovals will have some degree of Bowtie effect, however in researching, it seemed L/w ratios and depth percentage being in a certain range would make the bowtie effect less severe. Is this incorrect? I can still see those facets in the.75 I listed a link to this morning, but it seemed less severe to me? I am probably wrong on that too. I am having the stone set in a platinum halo ring. I appreciate your assistance and insight.
Any* 8 main rotated oval you pick is going to have that area through the center. That area will go dark in bright light (and give
what most people call a bow-tie).
Here is what the ASET looks like for an 8 main rotated oval. It is that bright red area that returns light really well that will make it go
dark through the center. Plus, the facets around that area are not returning light that well, so they make the bow-tie area stand
out even more. This is a sample ASET and not of the stones you posted above.
The oval below is the one you posted above (.75). You can see the mains that cause the bow-tie-ish area. What do you see that
makes you think the bow-tie wont be as bad as the first stone you posted? I think you would need an ASET of both stones
and then would need to pick them apart to tell which one would have less of a bow-tie. Ultimately, they both have that
cut pattern and will have the darkness through the center (so "less" between these two stones is somewhat irrelevant, IMO).
Many people own this type of oval...they just make peace with the cut and understand that it is the nature of the cut, unless you
are willing to go with a different cut pattern in an oval (like a 4 main, 6 main, or an 8 main, not rotated).
0.70 Carat Oval Diamond F Color VS1 Clarity Very Good Cut | Ritani
0.7 Carat Oval Earth Diamond VG Cut F Color VS1 Clarity with diamond report number GIA #7526544585
www.ritani.com
Is this one a different cut, the 4 main? Thank you for looking
0.70 Carat Oval Diamond F Color VS1 Clarity Very Good Cut | Ritani
0.7 Carat Oval Earth Diamond VG Cut F Color VS1 Clarity with diamond report number GIA #7526544585
Is this one a different cut, the 4 main? Thank you for looking
And this one too?
0.70 Carat Oval Diamond G Color VS1 Clarity Very Good Cut | Ritani
0.7 Carat Oval Earth Diamond VG Cut G Color VS1 Clarity with diamond report number GIA #1523519863
www.ritani.com
TXwidow
Shiny_Rock
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sorry to say but I am really picky regarding cut of diamonds.
There are actually a couple of guys that cut (specialty cut designed by them) to avoid things like bowties.
If I was in the market for an oval (which I am not at this time) I would purchase from Brian Gavin; his ovals have ARROWS like the round diamonds are supposed to have, which is why his don't have a bowtie.
Stroll over to his site just for comparison to an outstanding cut stone and check out his oval stones. And yes, they are priced higher than a "standard" cut stone. But I want sparkle/fire over size.
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0.70 Carat Oval Diamond F Color VS1 Clarity Very Good Cut | Ritani
0.7 Carat Oval Earth Diamond VG Cut F Color VS1 Clarity with diamond report number GIA #7526544585
Is this one a different cut, the 4 main? Thank you for looking
Yes!
And this one too?
0.70 Carat Oval Diamond G Color VS1 Clarity Very Good Cut | Ritani
0.7 Carat Oval Earth Diamond VG Cut G Color VS1 Clarity with diamond report number GIA #1523519863
Yes...although this one is not as obvious.
Unfortunately, GIA does not include a clarity plot for stones under 1 carat. Makes it harder to be sure what the cut is.
If you look at the GIA report for this stone you can see the clarity plot shows 4 mains.
An oval with rotated 8 mains means the arrows arent going straight through the center like this stone (again, look at the clarity
plot)
This is a regular 8 main (not rotated)...
6 main
You can find good and bad ones of each type. The problem with Ritani is the North/South videos...very hard to read and tell what's
going on, unlike the ones at Blue Nile, where the stone sits on its side.
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Which Diamond do you think is nicer, the first I posted that is .72 G VvS1, or the second I posted that is .75 G, VS1?
As far as a “bow tie, the 4main I found didn’t seem to have the same shadowing (?) in the middle but not sure I liked the Play of light as much as a stone with an 8 main. It’s very hard to understand what makes a stone have “good or bad” shadowing in the middle. Is there a certain depth that’s better?
I appreciate your insight.
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It's not a depth thing afraid or as simple as pavilion mains. But that first stone with the video was a keeper
This first one I posted
0.72 Carat Oval Diamond G Color VVS1 Clarity Very Good Cut | Ritani
0.72 Carat Oval Earth Diamond VG Cut G Color VVS1 Clarity with diamond report number GIA #3525462963
www.ritani.com
Husband did purchase it. Thank you for your time.
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@Garry...unfortunately we continue to have a semantics issue with ovals*. You, the professional, call bow-ties the black area through
the center (rightfully so), usually showing up as blue or black on an aset image. On the other hand, the general population considers
a bow-tie the shape through the center created by the two mains where the light return goes from nice (red/green) to mushy (gray)
on an Aset image, without feathering out nicely.
I have tried to use your definition (the real definition), but keep getting pulled back to the "general populations" interpretation
of a bow-tie.
@TLW technically, this is what @Garry H (Cut Nut) is talking about. This is a "real" bow-tie.
However, no one posts a diamond like this asking about the bow-tie. They know off the bat that its not a good choice. They post
8 main rotated ovals, this is @Karl_K 's naming convention for this kind of cut, asking about the bow-ties. I would be thrilled if
we could come up with a naming convention that differentiated between the two, so we aren't giving what looks like mixed advice.
Is there a naming convention we can use for this center area that the general population is asking about?
*applies to marquise and other fancies.
@Garry...unfortunately we continue to have a semantics issue with ovals*. You, the professional, call bow-ties the black area through
the center (rightfully so), usually showing up as blue or black on an aset image. On the other hand, the general population considers
a bow-tie the shape through the center created by the two mains where the light return goes from nice (red/green) to mushy (gray)
on an Aset image, without feathering out nicely.
I have tried to use your definition (the real definition), but keep getting pulled back to the "general populations" interpretation
of a bow-tie.
@TLW technically, this is what @Garry H (Cut Nut) is talking about. This is a "real" bow-tie.
However, no one posts a diamond like this asking about the bow-tie. They know off the bat that its not a good choice. They post
8 main rotated ovals, this is @Karl_K 's naming convention for this kind of cut, asking about the bow-ties. I would be thrilled if
we could come up with a naming convention that differentiated between the two, so we aren't giving what looks like mixed advice.
Is there a naming convention we can use for this center area that the general population is asking about?
*applies to marquise and other fancies.
I am certainly confused.. And have been looking at so many stones. The verbiage can be confusing. I came here many years ago looking for advice on a cushion cut, also from Ritani that I ended up purchasing- it was generally well liked by you on here- so ten years (of marriage) later back again to ask about ovals. Ovals are not as straightforward it seems. I tried to go thru Costco (that was returned due to not liking the I color, I could see tint in daylight, then tried brick and mortar store which wanted more than double price of Costco to make the same type of ring with center a G color in 14k, now trying ritani again. I hope that first one I posted looks good in person.
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Yes, it can be confusing when naming conventions aren't the same among everyone. Garry is obviously the expert/pro in this area.
But, then we have what the general population thinks...we can try to educate those that come to Pricescope, but then you have the
rest of the population that looks at an oval and sees the bow-tie shape created by the faceting pattern and says that it has a bow-tie.
This causes quite a conundrum for someone trying to advise someone on an oval. Must we ask everyone wanting advice on an Oval
what they consider a bow-tie to be? Maybe that is the answer?
@Garry H (Cut Nut) Looking for your input on this.
I do hope you find the first stone to your liking since it's on its way! Do let us know what you think!
But, then we have what the general population thinks...we can try to educate those that come to Pricescope, but then you have the
rest of the population that looks at an oval and sees the bow-tie shape created by the faceting pattern and says that it has a bow-tie.
This causes quite a conundrum for someone trying to advise someone on an oval. Must we ask everyone wanting advice on an Oval
what they consider a bow-tie to be? Maybe that is the answer?
@Garry H (Cut Nut) Looking for your input on this.
I do hope you find the first stone to your liking since it's on its way! Do let us know what you think!
It actually isn’t on its way, I have asked ritani rep to get more photos and perhaps an aset if possible- so I can see photos in real life, she said it did appear to have one but that it seemed minimal and I’d have to look at the photos to see how all the facets interacted together. I have photos coming of the 4 main I saw as well. Hopefully I can find a good one with the extra assistance they’re providing. I like the setting I found there, a halo in platinum abs would be easier to get the stone there as well.
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