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ted9000

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First post to this great community!

I am looking for a 2.5-3ct RB for an engagement ring. Can you all assist me with what specficiations to look for to get the best value in a diamond of this size? Also what range should I be looking to spend? Can I get into a nice piece in the $20k-25k range?

Thanks all in advance!
 

Stone-cold11

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Not much picking on the lower color range.

Found some in the I and J

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1122766.asp?b=16&a=12&c=77&cid=131 Ask for IS image.

http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=view-id-diamond-infinity&id=389 Might be a little too much color for you.

http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-2-carat-ideal-cut-i-color-si1-clarity_LD01467289?__fun_frm=i&filter_id=0, You will have to buy almost blind with this.

EDT:
The SI1 you will have to ask the vendor are they eye-clean.
 

ted9000

Rough_Rock
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I do not have a color in mind, really looking for some help from the community on the cut, clarity and color that I should be going after in a stone of this size. I realize that to the naked eye that there is a "sweet spot" in the reaming "C''s" after you determine what weight you want - thats a big gap in my knowledge.

Thanks for the detail so far.
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
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HI Ted,
Great suggestions given so far....I have a different viewpoint on this.

No question that $25K for a 3carat round will mean you need to look "outside the box"

Personally I have no problem with K-L colors- or imperfect diamonds with " benign" inclusions.

Many folks here love "ideal" cut diamonds, yet there are other, really well cut diamonds that may cost less because they are not called "Ideal"
 

Maisie

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Date: 2/17/2009 3:26:20 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
HI Ted,
Great suggestions given so far....I have a different viewpoint on this.

No question that $25K for a 3carat round will mean you need to look 'outside the box'

Personally I have no problem with K-L colors- or imperfect diamonds with ' benign' inclusions.

Many folks here love 'ideal' cut diamonds, yet there are other, really well cut diamonds that may cost less because they are not called 'Ideal'
I agree with you that there are beautiful lower coloured diamonds which will cost less. I just got myself a gorgeous M I1.
I don't think people like me are in the majority though.

A lot of people who post here seem to be looking for white diamonds. Sometimes its easier for someone to just buy an 'ideal' diamond rather than to spend ages learning about how to choose a great diamond based on the numbers. I know I can't do that, for some reason I just don't understand the numbers and angles etc. I like how some vendors have a list of these diamonds so I can choose much easier.

Of course if people do want to learn and choose a diamond the numbers way - good for them. They will be a better man than me
My eyes will have to do the choosing for me!
 

Lorelei

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Date: 2/17/2009 2:50:19 PM
Author:ted9000
First post to this great community!

I am looking for a 2.5-3ct RB for an engagement ring. Can you all assist me with what specficiations to look for to get the best value in a diamond of this size? Also what range should I be looking to spend? Can I get into a nice piece in the $20k-25k range?

Thanks all in advance!
Welcome Ted,

As long as you find a well cut diamond then you can consider H I or J colour ( GIA or AGS graded) and verified eyeclean SI1 or SI2 if you are working with a trusted vendor in order to get the most size for the money. It is cut which will get you a beautiful diamond, you don''t necessarily have to go with one of top cut quality, but proven proportions and good finish should get you a very attractive diamond.
 

Rockdiamond

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I''ve seen the thread about your diamond Maise- it''s a knockout!!

You may be right about the "general consensus" around here- maybe it''s common for folks posting to want a "white" diamond.
Yet to me, the value of this type of site is the ability to give differing viewpoints- otherwise it might seem that there''s something" wrong" with an M color- and we both know that''s simply not a rule that works.
I also feel the same way about the "ideal" cut.
For me, it seems like a lot more work trying to figure out all the angles charts and graphs.
If GIA graded it EX, or VG cut grade ( or AGS 0 or 1) we can know it''s going to be a well cut diamond.
Some people will actually pick a "non ideal" stone over an ideal cut- based solely on appearance.
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Date: 2/17/2009 3:33:47 PM
Author: Maisie

Date: 2/17/2009 3:26:20 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
HI Ted,
Great suggestions given so far....I have a different viewpoint on this.

No question that $25K for a 3carat round will mean you need to look ''outside the box''

Personally I have no problem with K-L colors- or imperfect diamonds with '' benign'' inclusions.

Many folks here love ''ideal'' cut diamonds, yet there are other, really well cut diamonds that may cost less because they are not called ''Ideal''
Of course if people do want to learn and choose a diamond the numbers way - good for them. They will be a better man than me
My eyes will have to do the choosing for me!
but that would be a difficult thing to do if one was buying online. you go broke paying the postage if you had to ship stones back forth.
 

Maisie

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Date: 2/17/2009 6:09:06 PM
Author: Dancing Fire


Date: 2/17/2009 3:33:47 PM
Author: Maisie



Date: 2/17/2009 3:26:20 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
HI Ted,
Great suggestions given so far....I have a different viewpoint on this.

No question that $25K for a 3carat round will mean you need to look 'outside the box'

Personally I have no problem with K-L colors- or imperfect diamonds with ' benign' inclusions.

Many folks here love 'ideal' cut diamonds, yet there are other, really well cut diamonds that may cost less because they are not called 'Ideal'
Of course if people do want to learn and choose a diamond the numbers way - good for them. They will be a better man than me
My eyes will have to do the choosing for me!
but that would be a difficult thing to do if one was buying online. you go broke paying the postage if you had to ship stones back forth.
I agree, in my case I have trusted the vendors. For my Infinity diamond I saw a video and that showed me enough to know this diamond would be beautiful.

What I was trying to say was that the numbers thing is beyond me, so I have relied on the Vendors experience, both Whiteflash and Wink and then used my eyes when the diamond arrived.

I would like to point out that I have had ACA diamonds and an Expert Selection diamond from Whiteflash and both were just as beautiful to me.
 

Dancing Fire

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Date: 2/17/2009 3:54:15 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
I''ve seen the thread about your diamond Maise- it''s a knockout!!

You may be right about the ''general consensus'' around here- maybe it''s common for folks posting to want a ''white'' diamond.
Yet to me, the value of this type of site is the ability to give differing viewpoints- otherwise it might seem that there''s something'' wrong'' with an M color- and we both know that''s simply not a rule that works.
I also feel the same way about the ''ideal'' cut.
For me, it seems like a lot more work trying to figure out all the angles charts and graphs.
If GIA graded it EX, or VG cut grade ( or AGS 0 or 1) we can know it''s going to be a well cut diamond.
Some people will actually pick a ''non ideal'' stone over an ideal cut- based solely on appearance.
David
you sound like my old-timer jeweler. he hates modern day ideal cuts and swears on the bible that a 60/60 stone is thee ideal cut.
 

Rockdiamond

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Maise- Wink is a great guy, and a proven vendor- plus, you love the Infinity cut, so you got exactly what you wanted!
Ted, it is possible to buy online with less risk of needing to return if you get a lot of photos, a vendors first hand opinion, and even a video.
All of which Maise had. It is out there.

In terms of which is older, the Tolkowsky standard used smaller tables starting back in the early 1900's- in some ways resembling the modern "Ideal" cut.
It was after WWII- when the business really started to flourish in the US, that different, and more modern ( at the time) methods of cutting developed. That's when 60% tables- larger than the old style, came into fashion.
If you want to call Harry Winston "old timer" then I'm guilty. That's where I learned. In 1976 the house of Winston was the largest loose diamond company in the world. The standard there was 60/60. Believe me, these stones will knock your socks off- amazingly well cut- that's what Winston was known for. These stones hold up today- they do not look at all"old fashioned"
Say we showed such a stone to 100 people who were committed to having a really great cut- and compared to a beautiful diamond with H&A and 57% table- a stone we can call for the sake of conversation, "Ideal" . How many would pick a slightly spreadier stone?
50? 40? 60? it's not going to be much different that that.
In fact, a well cut 1.00ct diamond with a 60% table, and 60% depth can earn a GIA "EX" cut grade- and may spread 6.5 or 6.6 mm.
Many of the ideal cut stones spread 6.3mm.
There's a lot of the top people currently in the industry- young and old- that prefer the type of stone I'm talking about.
It's wrong to say 60/60 is the best cut, just like it's not really accurate to say 57% table is the best- it's really a matter of taste.

Ted- I apologize for the "thread-jack"
Have a look at both, that's all I'm saying.
If you love ideal cut then that's the way to go.
But don't immediately rule out K color- or a diamond with a 60% table.
I'm all for using your eyes to be able to buy the most diamond for your money.
 

John Pollard

Ideal_Rock
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Date: 2/17/2009 3:54:15 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
I've seen the thread about your diamond Maise- it's a knockout!!

You may be right about the 'general consensus' around here- maybe it's common for folks posting to want a 'white' diamond.
Yet to me, the value of this type of site is the ability to give differing viewpoints- otherwise it might seem that there's something' wrong' with an M color- and we both know that's simply not a rule that works.
I also feel the same way about the 'ideal' cut.
For me, it seems like a lot more work trying to figure out all the angles charts and graphs.
If GIA graded it EX, or VG cut grade ( or AGS 0 or 1) we can know it's going to be a well cut diamond.
While I respect David's right to an opinion I've seen enough dubious examples that I disagree with the 'well-cut' sentence.

There's a steep/deep range of GIA EX that leaks light, and VG allows up to 41.6/37.0 in common table sizes. While a top cut grade may be a good sign, cutting variances are not accounted-for in the GIA metric, so diamonds can have swings in those angles causing leakage. Here is a post with such an example. An earlier example in that thread (also GIA EX) is somewhat steep/deep and windows so much you can see the person's skin under the diamond's table.

Some people will actually pick a 'non ideal' stone over an ideal cut- based solely on appearance.
I believe David means a near-Tolkowsky make (in round) when he says 'ideal cut' ... correct me if wrong David. If so, that's true. It also has has nothing to do with the concerns in my prior paragraph - which apply to all RB makes.
 

Rockdiamond

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To me John, it's still a subjective call.
I'm sure that some people would not like the stone you referred to.
But very likely others would like the stone. To me, the photos did not clearly demonstrate a deficiency.
That's not to say your concerns are unwarranted- we simply look at it differently

Personally, I don't like to go above 61% depth on a colorless round- and really rather stay right at 60% depth if I have a choice.
I don't believe a GIA EX cut grade "steep deep" is possible with a 60% depth, or a 60% table.....


Ted- if you find a stone, and can post the stats here you will get a lot of assistance in selection.
 

John Pollard

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Date: 2/17/2009 7:18:54 PM
Author: Rockdiamond

To me John, it''s still a subjective call.
I''m sure that some people would not like the stone you referred to.
But very likely others would like the stone. To me, the photos did not clearly demonstrate a deficiency.
That''s not to say your concerns are unwarranted- we simply look at it differently
Understood.


I don''t believe a GIA EX cut grade ''steep deep'' is possible with a 60% depth, or a 60% table.....
I wish it wasn''t. Unfortunately...

60-60-414-345-ex.jpg
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
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That''s interesting John.
Are there any photos of the diamond- can we see it in profile?
 

Maisie

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Can I say something with total due respect to you guys? This thread started out with a diamond novice asking about how to buy a diamond. Now its turned into a technical discussion which may well be too in depth for him and any others reading it.

Would it be possible to maybe bring it back to something we can all understand.. not just the vendors.

*backs off bowing and scraping*
 

Rockdiamond

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Ted9000- if you''re out there- sorry!!

You will get a lot of really well advised advice once you start looking at, and posting specific options.

Thank you Maisie.
 

purrfectpear

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I think the Cliff Notes version would be that the statement "GIA excellent = well cut diamond" is not uniformly good advice.

The rest is technical.

David seems to go by the adage "if the customer thinks it''s sparkly, it''s all good". I don''t disagree, but it is NOT necessarily the very best performer that can be had, and possibly for the same money. There was a time when customers loved ALL diamonds that were sparkly, reasonably colorless, and not included to the eye. We''ve come a long way from that viewpoint. It''s important for the OP to know that
 

Rockdiamond

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More accurate an adage would be: I believe that there''s a lot of diamonds that are easily dismissed that might actually be viable options.
Performance, in relation to diamonds is a subjective notion in itself.
Ted9000- I believe that everyone who''s commenting here is doing so in an attempt to help you get a great diamond.
There''s no questiion you can get an amazing 2.50ct for less than $20k.
 

MissGotRocks

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Date: 2/17/2009 9:19:03 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
More accurate an adage would be: I believe that there's a lot of diamonds that are easily dismissed that might actually be viable options.
Performance, in relation to diamonds is a subjective notion in itself.
Ted9000- I believe that everyone who's commenting here is doing so in an attempt to help you get a great diamond.
There's no questiion you can get an amazing 2.50ct for less than $20k.
Don't think this is what the top labs are promoting - least not in the area of light performance.

Can you give the poster some examples of these stones? I would love to see some of the ones you are suggesting!
 

Rockdiamond

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If you look at stones in the I-J/Si1-2 range, it will be no problem to get 2 and a half, EX cut grade- and stay under 20K.
If we go up to $25k we can maintain the cut grade, and increase the color up to H keeping wiht SI, or go to I VVS.
There''s a lot of options.
I feel that the GIA EX cut grade is inclusive of a lot of really nicely cut diamonds. You guys will ask for IS and ASET and make sure the guy will get a great diamond.
AS he should.
 

Dancing Fire

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Date: 2/17/2009 7:00:37 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
If you want to call Harry Winston ''old timer'' then I''m guilty. That''s where I learned. In 1976 the house of Winston was the largest loose diamond company in the world. The standard there was 60/60. Believe me, these stones will knock your socks off- amazingly well cut- that''s what Winston was known for. These stones hold up today- they do not look at all''old fashioned''
Say we showed such a stone to 100 people who were committed to having a really great cut- and compared to a beautiful diamond with H&A and 57% table- a stone we can call for the sake of conversation, ''Ideal'' . How many would pick a slightly spreadier stone?
50? 40? 60? it''s not going to be much different that that.
In fact, a well cut 1.00ct diamond with a 60% table, and 60% depth can earn a GIA ''EX'' cut grade- and may spread 6.5 or 6.6 mm.
Many of the ideal cut stones spread 6.3mm.
There''s a lot of the top people currently in the industry- young and old- that prefer the type of stone I''m talking about.
It''s wrong to say 60/60 is the best cut, just like it''s not really accurate to say 57% table is the best- it''s really a matter of taste.
that would be an interesting Coke vs Pepsi test. the ideal cut of the 70''s vs today''s AGS ideal cut.
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

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Date: 2/17/2009 10:03:35 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
If you look at stones in the I-J/Si1-2 range, it will be no problem to get 2 and a half, EX cut grade- and stay under 20K.
If we go up to $25k we can maintain the cut grade, and increase the color up to H keeping wiht SI, or go to I VVS.
There''s a lot of options.
I feel that the GIA EX cut grade is inclusive of a lot of really nicely cut diamonds. You guys will ask for IS and ASET and make sure the guy will get a great diamond.
AS he should.
David people buying blind do not care that a cut grade can be inclusive of some nice stones that others might end up owning.
They want a nice stone for themselves.
http://diamonds.pricescope.com/60.asp this page on the tutorial here needs an update - but it might help you in your learning process, if you wish to learn.
It also shows some profile views that will help you with your request from John.
 

Rockdiamond

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Date: 2/17/2009 8:44:24 PM
Author: Maisie
Can I say something with total due respect to you guys? This thread started out with a diamond novice asking about how to buy a diamond. Now its turned into a technical discussion which may well be too in depth for him and any others reading it.

Would it be possible to maybe bring it back to something we can all understand.. not just the vendors.

*backs off bowing and scraping*
Ted9000- I apologize if this thread has been brought off topic.
I feel that if you stick with a GIA ''EX" cut grade you''re going to get a gorgeous diamond.
A lot of people here do not trust GIA, I do.
Regardless of this, I strongly believe that if you do post info about a diamond you''ll get a lot of well advised opinions- and that this should prove helpful to you- that is my goal in participating.

Garry, John, Dancing Fire- I will be starting a thread about Cut grades, and 60/60 so we can continue the conversation without thread jacking.
 

strmrdr

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Date: 2/18/2009 1:29:32 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
Date: 2/17/2009 8:44:24 PM

Author: Maisie

Can I say something with total due respect to you guys? This thread started out with a diamond novice asking about how to buy a diamond. Now its turned into a technical discussion which may well be too in depth for him and any others reading it.


Would it be possible to maybe bring it back to something we can all understand.. not just the vendors.


*backs off bowing and scraping*
Ted9000- I apologize if this thread has been brought off topic.

I feel that if you stick with a GIA 'EX' cut grade you're going to get a gorgeous diamond.

A lot of people here do not trust GIA, I do.

Regardless of this, I strongly believe that if you do post info about a diamond you'll get a lot of well advised opinions- and that this should prove helpful to you- that is my goal in participating.


Garry, John, Dancing Fire- I will be starting a thread about Cut grades, and 60/60 so we can continue the conversation without thread jacking.
The thread is here:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/performance-vs-beauty-in-diamond-cut.107782/
That is the place to hash it out.
 

fleur-de-lis

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Interesting posts and debates, y''all, but some of you might not actually be helping the OP by addressing HIS questions.




Date: 2/17/2009 2:50:19 PM
Author:ted9000
First post to this great community!

I am looking for a 2.5-3ct RB for an engagement ring. Can you all assist me with what specficiations to look for to get the best value in a diamond of this size? Also what range should I be looking to spend? Can I get into a nice piece in the $20k-25k range?

Thanks all in advance!
Ted9000, welcome to Pricescope!

In a nutshell, it''s going to be quite the challenge to find a conventional diamond of that size within your price range. As Maisie and Lorelei pointed out, you likely will have to sacrifice one of the C''s for something that is less conventionally desired to get into the size/price range you desire. Fortunately, there are many stones that are both beautiful and unconventional, and if they work for you, great! [For example and using the broadest of brushstrokes with this example, the typical color range one sees regularly is D/colorless to J. If you''re willing to go down to K color, the demand will be less and the price will be less. If you and your future wife find that you''re one of the people who actually prefer ''warmth'' in diamonds, you might come across an M for a comparatively low price. However, not all people are willing to go to a lower color, and I''ve encountered several women who have complimented my e-ring (E color with a bit of blue fluorescence added in), then wistfully mention that they wish their stone was as white. But before I lead you astray, it''s not all about color; with a great cut that maximizes light return/brightness, there are stones that appear to have color when you look at it through the bottom but "face up" white, bright, and gorgeous.)

First and foremost, I''d recommend reading some primers on the basics. The GoodOldGold (www.goodoldgold.com) website has great tutorials, and I highly recommend you take a look at their site so you can quickly "speak the lingo" around here.

Oh, and for a quick hint Ted9000, pay very close attention to the information about "cut" when looking at Round Brilliants. The math may look complicated, but by learning it THAT will help you in getting a great diamond for less more than anything else. Let''s face it, the overwhelming majority of people are terrible with numbers, can''t be bothered, and will focus on the easier-to-remember criteria. But, perhaps more than any other of the 4C''s, a superb Cut can visually overcome other shortcomings in the stone. If you get that right, you can go down in both color and clarity a little bit, which will result in reducing that larger stone''s price a bit.

Good luck! And feel free to ask any additional questions!

f-d-l
 

ted9000

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All - Thanks for the feedback.

Back to the original question, what should I expect for a nice stone of this size? I do not want to go down in color and want an ''excellent'' or ''ideal'' cut. Is $30-40k more what I should be budgeting for?

Thanks!
 
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