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Are Fancy Color Diamonds going up in prices also??

leecube

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 20, 2011
Messages
28
Hi all, I'm a total newbie here. My boyfriend and I just started looking for an e-ring 1.5 weeks ago. After learning about the price increase, we are already KICKING ourselves because we had the funds and the intension to buy 2 years ago, but we just kept on procrastinating it! Because for us newbies, buying diamonds is really a stressful process...not a fun project like most of you enjoy.

Anyways, we are looking for a yellow diamond (intense or vivid). Do you expert think that color diamond will go up in prices as sharply as its colorless counterparts? What have been the historical data for yellow diamonds during the past few months. Do anyone have any "stalking project" particularly on a yellow diamond?

Also has anyone purchased yellow diamonds from BlueNile before? I can't seem to find anyone with past experience.

THANKS very much in advance!!!
 

slg47

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
9,667
leecube|1309225107|2956691 said:
Hi all, I'm a total newbie here. My boyfriend and I just started looking for an e-ring 1.5 weeks ago. After learning about the price increase, we are already KICKING ourselves because we had the funds and the intension to buy 2 years ago, but we just kept on procrastinating it! Because for us newbies, buying diamonds is really a stressful process...not a fun project like most of you enjoy.

Anyways, we are looking for a yellow diamond (intense or vivid). Do you expert think that color diamond will go up in prices as sharply as its colorless counterparts? What have been the historical data for yellow diamonds during the past few months. Do anyone have any "stalking project" particularly on a yellow diamond?

Also has anyone purchased yellow diamonds from BlueNile before? I can't seem to find anyone with past experience.

THANKS very much in advance!!!
I am not sure about price increases in yellow diamonds but I would advise you to buy from a place that has images and a good return policy. Kenny who is a lover of fancy colored diamonds has purchased from fancydiamonds.net several times and has posted about it--you could search for his threads?
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Leecube welcome to PS. :wavey:

I'm an FCD nut: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/fancy-colored-diamond-collection.159746/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/fancy-colored-diamond-collection.159746/[/URL]
Nobody knows what the future will bring on prices, but yes there have been several recent increases on FCDs lately.
In the last 6 months it's over 20%.
I do know that not all colors and sizes go up by the same percentage.

All my business has been with Leibish & Co at www.fancydiamonds.net
They have around 1000 FCDs in stock and lots of yellows.
They have been very understanding about refunds and returns because you can't really be sure you'll like the color till you see it live.
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
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Hi Leecube,
I suppose many people do find diamond shopping stressful- however it does not have to be- nor should it be imo
After all, it's about love and joy, yes?
Re prices of Fancy Intense and Fancy Vivid- yes, the prices have gone up- I'd say, percentage wise, slightly less than colorless stones in general.
Surprisingly (to me anyway) Fancy Light Yellow has taken an even steeper hike that colorless lately
 

leecube

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 20, 2011
Messages
28
Kenny, that link to the FCD education is really helpful, thanks! May I ask why you are so contend with Leibish? Because I've done some quick price comparison against DBL, BlueNile and Michael Scheiner, and Leibish's prices seem to be slightly on the high side. On the other hand, Michael Scheiner have SO many fancy yellow stones listings. He has all these readily available in stock? And BlueNile's pricing seems competitive as well, but how come I don't see more PSer buying from either one of them??

DBL's pictures are the best though! All FCD vendors should strive to take more pictures/videos like them

Oh my...see what I mean about the stressful part?
 

TristanC

Brilliant_Rock
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Jun 6, 2011
Messages
995
I've spoken with Leibish quite a bit, DBL is one of the few firms they are not very well connected to. Aside from that they have good working relationships with IBD, Seren diamond and a few others. I actually started a thread on CS forums about fancy yellows flying off the shelves.

Frankly I find Leibish prices to be on the lower side - spec for spec. It is VERY confusing to get a ballpark on what fancy coloured diamonds cost as extremely small changes in colour can result in very large changes in price. I feel that Leibish is actually one of the most transparent with prices and why some stones are cheaper than others and if you were willing to you can get them involved with your search and they can better advise you. I just feel comfortable with them from all my ongoing communication.

Also various cuts have premiums for FCDs. I am sure you know to create an account with Leibish to view their discounted price that is available to all.

Frankly if you were fixated on fancy yellows, I would move NOW. There is nothing material behind that, but daily nicer large and high grade coloured yellows seem to be moving very quickly lately. Yellow more than any other - so I doubt that waiting would be in your best interest.

Share your specs and budgets? We can help point out stones =D Gives us FCD lovers something to do.
 

Rockdiamond

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Leecube- thanks for the comment about the photos and videos- we are very proud of them

Tristan- you made an interesting comment about firms being connected.
In my experience there's different channels within the diamond industry, and no firm is connected with all, or even most channels.
In fact there's been times I've acted as a conduit between two site holders simply because I had a relationship with each- but they did not speak to each other.

The same holds true in the colorless arena.
It's unlikely that BN speaks to JA who likely does not communicate with WF
 

TristanC

Brilliant_Rock
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Hi Rockdiamond, i'm only reiterating what was communicated to me, and the fact that i have seen the firms pull inventory off one another and to resell at varying prices (sometimes lower) to their customers.

Also, Kenny has worked with Leibish and has been instructed a handful of times to ship his leibish returns to ishay ben david.

Leibish has also transparently stated that they do not work with diamonds by lauren, at least I have been told that prior to this thread.

I apologise if I have made a wrong statement of fact
 

kenny

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True.
Every time (6 IIRC) I have return an FCD I bought from Leibish, which is in Israel, they have instructed me to ship it to Ishay Ben David http://www.fancycolordiamond.net/ which is in New York.

I believe the two companies are run by families which are related.
I can only speculate about the reason they had me return the stones to NY.
Perhaps it is a courtesy to save me the high cost of secure international shipment.
Perhaps IBD and Lebish periodically ship things back and forth and mine were just added to those shipments.
Maybe business to business movement of goods avoids incoming customs fees when it enters Israel.
All speculation on my part.

I am also aware sometimes FCD vendors will "co-buy" a particularly expensive stone and both list it, often not at the same price.

It is understandable there can be tension between competitors.
After all, money IS money.
Money is the oxygen of commerce.
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
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It's true that we are not affiliated with Lebish
Although they are publically afililiated with IBD
Tristan's statement implied Lebish is affiliated with many firms- but not us
I cant speak to thier affiliations but as Kenny noted, competitors don't frequently affiliate
 

TristanC

Brilliant_Rock
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Messages
995
leecube|1309225107|2956691 said:
Hi all, I'm a total newbie here. My boyfriend and I just started looking for an e-ring 1.5 weeks ago. After learning about the price increase, we are already KICKING ourselves because we had the funds and the intension to buy 2 years ago, but we just kept on procrastinating it! Because for us newbies, buying diamonds is really a stressful process...not a fun project like most of you enjoy.

Anyways, we are looking for a yellow diamond (intense or vivid). Do you expert think that color diamond will go up in prices as sharply as its colorless counterparts? What have been the historical data for yellow diamonds during the past few months. Do anyone have any "stalking project" particularly on a yellow diamond?

Also has anyone purchased yellow diamonds from BlueNile before? I can't seem to find anyone with past experience.

THANKS very much in advance!!!
Ok back to the OP's points.

In terms of "on paper" specs for FCDs when you compare prices vs various vendors, I can't speak for a lot of them but for Bluenile it is quite a shot in the dark. They don't appear to hold physical inventory of their fancy diamonds (unlike their signature stones which they can get hands on immediately or quite quickly) So buying without sight is a big of a gamble for coloured diamonds.

The reason being again that Fancy Coloured Diamonds vary in price based on small things like origin, certification and most importantly colour a lot. To a lesser extent, the appearance of inclusions would change the price of two almost like colours. Unlike colourless, you frequently can't rely on the certs to provide a bunch of standard measures which you can run through PS analysis tools. Bluenile DOES seem to have a good return policy, but I have no clarity on that. So if you want you can pick up a "bargain" and view in real life, and keep if it is gorgeous, or send it back if you don't like it.

Re the other sites, again Rockdiamond, I wasn't trying to imply that you are badly connected at all or that you stand alone. I have apologised earlier if there is misrepresentation.

I do like DBL's thoroughness with videos and photos, plus the fact that they don't try to 'enhance' the appearance of their gems. I do find that they are skewed towards offering yellows though, and right now I am not in the market for a yellow.

If there was one thing I wished vendors had for coloured diamonds is a common coloured background to photograph against, and a range of lighting - just 2-3 would be nice: incandescent, flourescent and 'daylight' or something along the lines. But this actually assists consumers more than sellers so i wouldn't exactly hold my breath that all sites will start doing this. I can hope that GOG suddenly decides to carry FCDs though.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Deleted
 

kenny

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leecube|1309245316|2956868 said:
Kenny, that link to the FCD education is really helpful, thanks! May I ask why you are so contend with Leibish? Because I've done some quick price comparison against DBL, BlueNile and Michael Scheiner, and Leibish's prices seem to be slightly on the high side. On the other hand, Michael Scheiner have SO many fancy yellow stones listings. He has all these readily available in stock? And BlueNile's pricing seems competitive as well, but how come I don't see more PSer buying from either one of them??

DBL's pictures are the best though! All FCD vendors should strive to take more pictures/videos like them

Oh my...see what I mean about the stressful part?
Good luck comaring prices.
Given two GIA fancy intense FCDs identical in weight, cut and every spec, one can have a price that is twice the other at the same vendor.
Color is so important yet impossible to fully express in existing GIA grades.
So, good luck comparing prices between vendors.
These are not like white diamonds where a GIA F is a GIA F.

I have not looked at yellows much but Leibish has 230 of them.
They have the largest selection of FCDs in the size and high quality-clean, strong hues that appeals to me.

All of these are from Leibish.

Screen shot 2011-06-28 at 7.16.44 PM.png
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Kenny I believe posted this picture some time ago, which I find fascinatingly baffling - L is a Fancy Brownish Orangy Pink 1.43 VVS1 - was $38k in Feb, R was a Fancy Pink Brown 1.52 VS2 $21k

file.png



Regarding the deleted post - best stay deleted, I think, if my first guess is anywhere close to target.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Yssie, that's an excellent example of how you can get a killer deal if you can find an FCD that GIA graded brown but you can't see much brown in.
Plus I assume those are both from the same vendor.

Sure viewing them live is the only way to be 100% sure, but still this is an excellent example of why FCD shopping can be like solving a complex puzzle.

(Are you sure those 2 pics are not swapped?) :D
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
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TristanC|1309314185|2957587 said:
Lol Kenny, why deleted?
Eight years of history before your joined PS.

I thought you deserved some semblance of an answer.
I'll leave it at that.
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
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kenny|1309315872|2957606 said:
Yssie, that's an excellent example of how you can get a killer deal if you can find an FCD that GIA graded brown but you can't see much brown in.
Plus I assume those are both from the same vendor.

Sure viewing them live is the only way to be 100% sure, but still this is an excellent example of why FCD shopping can be like solving a complex puzzle.

(Are you sure those 2 pics are not swapped?) :D
hey, you posted it
ETA: found it [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/i-have-fallen-in-love-w-a-pink-brown-diamond-make-it-stop.156503/#post-2852465?hilit=fancy%20brownish%20pink#p2852465']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/i-have-fallen-in-love-w-a-pink-brown-diamond-make-it-stop.156503/#post-2852465?hilit=fancy%20brownish%20pink#p2852465[/URL]
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
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They say the best thing about getting old and senile is you meet new family members every day! ;( :bigsmile: ;( :bigsmile:
 

leecube

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 20, 2011
Messages
28
Thanks for all your replies. Sorry that I couldn't reply sooner. Following Kenny's advise, I called Leibish, and they recommended this stone to me. http://www.fancydiamonds.net/view_diamonds/5119.htm

My concerns:
1) Fluorescence is "Strong Blue" - no matter what, this will inevitably diminish the intensity of the yellow in certain lighting, right?

2) Spread - Isn't this kind of small for a 2.26ct stone? I looked at some charts, and they said it should be at least 8mm

3) Girdle - "Thin to Extremely Thick", does this mean a lot of the stone's weight is going to the girdle? Which is a waste?

4) Table 71%, Depth 66.1% - Ideally, the table should be smaller than the depth, right? Even if it's not, it should be close, no? In this case, the difference is significant.

5) Inclusions - There seem to be a big "Indented Natural" on the bottom right corner, how could I know whether a prong will be able to cover it?

THANK YOU SO MUCH in advance for your help!

Wait....should I start a new thread now that I'm seeking advice on some stones? And should I move this over to the Colored Stone section? (Sorry, I'm new to this.)
 

stepcutnut

Ideal_Rock
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Aug 11, 2008
Messages
2,500
A FCD e-ring will be fabulous! I have been a FCD nut for years now and would have loved to receive one as an ER!!!

May I ask what shape stone you are leaning towards?

That is a lovely stone you posted, I would also recommend speaking with David from DBL as I have had awesome luck with all of my purchases from him :) I currently own multiple rings, earrings and pendants from David and the entire process from choosing a stone, to finding side stones to hammering out a design, has been such an enjoyable process with DBL.

Good luck with your decision and be sure to come back with lots of pics!
 

slg47

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
9,667
leecube|1309848733|2961806 said:
Thanks for all your replies. Sorry that I couldn't reply sooner. Following Kenny's advise, I called Leibish, and they recommended this stone to me. http://www.fancydiamonds.net/view_diamonds/5119.htm

My concerns:
1) Fluorescence is "Strong Blue" - no matter what, this will inevitably diminish the intensity of the yellow in certain lighting, right?

only in certain lighting, not most of the time.

2) Spread - Isn't this kind of small for a 2.26ct stone? I looked at some charts, and they said it should be at least 8mm

those charts were probably for round diamonds. a 2 ct princess is 7 mm x 7 mm

3) Girdle - "Thin to Extremely Thick", does this mean a lot of the stone's weight is going to the girdle? Which is a waste?


4) Table 71%, Depth 66.1% - Ideally, the table should be smaller than the depth, right? Even if it's not, it should be close, no? In this case, the difference is significant.

FCDs are cut for maximizing color often so the dimensions look different than what we see for colorless diamonds.


5) Inclusions - There seem to be a big "Indented Natural" on the bottom right corner, how could I know whether a prong will be able to cover it?

ask Leibish!

THANK YOU SO MUCH in advance for your help!

Wait....should I start a new thread now that I'm seeking advice on some stones? And should I move this over to the Colored Stone section? (Sorry, I'm new to this.)
you can start a new thread...colored diamonds are either discussed here or in the colored stones area. either way is fine! I did a brief search...didn't see too many options. Are you looking for a radiant specifically?
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
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leecube|1309848733|2961806 said:
1) Fluorescence is "Strong Blue" - no matter what, this will inevitably diminish the intensity of the yellow in certain lighting, right?
2) Spread - Isn't this kind of small for a 2.26ct stone? I looked at some charts, and they said it should be at least 8mm
3) Girdle - "Thin to Extremely Thick", does this mean a lot of the stone's weight is going to the girdle? Which is a waste?
4) Table 71%, Depth 66.1% - Ideally, the table should be smaller than the depth, right? Even if it's not, it should be close, no? In this case, the difference is significant.
5) Inclusions - There seem to be a big "Indented Natural" on the bottom right corner, how could I know whether a prong will be able to cover it?
1. I'm no expert on how flour changes the overall color appearance in FCDs, but I'd reason that IF it changes the appearance of the yellow hue it would move it in the green direction since blue and yellow make green when mixed.
I'd ask Leibish to take it outside and give their opinion.
Tell them you'd rather not buy it and return it so you need a frank assessment.
If it moves it in the green direction I'd personally like that a lot.

2 & 3. Again FCDs are cut to make the color stronger (not for spread or light performance) and both greater depth and thicker table strengthen the color by making the light travel through more yellow-colored material. Sure it would be nice to have everything in one diamond (that still got the Fancy Intense grade) but only you can decide when to trade off between grabbing a stone or waiting for another one.

4. Sorry I have no idea, some of the cut experts here may answer that.

5. That is a rather large cavity, visible in the pic which is greatly magnified. I doubt it will be visible to the naked eye, but again your call on if you want to pay to see it in person to make the decision.

You could buy it and return it if it's not groovy in person.
It will set you back near $50 for Registered shipping to New York.
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
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Hi All,
Shout out to stepcutnut :wavey:

Leecube- please note that vendors may not comment on other vendors stones- therefore questions about a specific stone identified as from a particular vendor can only be commented on by other consumers.

As a general statement- Fluorescence in natural colored diamonds is a wildcard.
That is to say: there's no way to state definitively that Strong Blue will do xyz- or won't do xyz in any given stone without looking at it.
 
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