Appraisal Burma Ruby

[Fabri]

I think Ivy New York is in hong kong. They have a lsrge inventory, perhaps they will have some heated with minor residues stones for you to compare agsinst? Otherwise I am with Arkieb I think Hong Kong has several open to the public shows towards the end of the year you may get an idea there -- unfortunately you will have to battle against the need to know what you are comparing against had a similar level of treatment (your stone is worth a small fraction of what an unheated one, or even a heat only stone would be worth) and the need to bargain for an accurate price at the show. Totally doable though, and sounds like fun!

I am also projecting arround >5k though. Heated with residues just isnt that rare.

I’d love to visit some exhibition in hk or singapore, I’ll check if there is anything coming soon.. but isn’t easy for me because I don’t know stones much to find out if it’s similar to mine, inclusions and all other characteristics.. I’ll see tho ! Thanks

 

[qubitasaurus]

I’d love to visit some exhibition in hk or singapore, I’ll check if there is anything coming soon.. but isn’t easy for me because I don’t know stones much to find out if it’s similar to mine, inclusions and all other characteristics.. I’ll see tho ! Thanks

It is never too late to learn .

It is in some ways going to be easier to price out a clarity enhanced stone. Because while an unheated one would be a huge headache where small changes in secondary colour will cause huge (disproportionately amplified) changes in price, a clarity enhanced one is probably going to show relatively much smaller fluctuations in price depending on colour. My prediction is that you'll be able to narrow down the window of possible values to within +/- 4 k even if you aren't spot on about matching colour. Problem is probably going to come in at the negotiation stage -- I don't know hong kong's gem shows, the first price you are offered may be a long way from what the vendor is hoping to have as a settling price (this is likely to be different from vendor to vendor, making this problem tricky to crack).

It will be fun in any case though and a good opportunity to learn (which is going to be super important if you intend to continue making more purchases), so I can't see what you have to lose.

 

[icy_jade]

Go to to BKK show in Sep. It’s bigger than the Singapore show.

 

[Fabri]

It is never too late to learn .

It is in some ways going to be easier to price out a clarity enhanced stone. Because while an unheated one would be a huge headache where small changes in secondary colour will cause huge (disproportionately amplified) changes in price, a clarity enhanced one is probably going to show relatively much smaller fluctuations in price depending on colour. My prediction is that you'll be able to narrow down the window of possible values to within +/- 4 k even if you aren't spot on about matching colour. Problem is probably going to come in at the negotiation stage -- I don't know hong kong's gem shows, the first price you are offered may be a long way from what the vendor is hoping to have as a settling price (this is likely to be different from vendor to vendor, making this problem tricky to crack).

It will be fun in any case though and a good opportunity to learn (which is going to be super important if you intend to continue making more purchases), so I can't see what you have to lose.

Yes, you are right it’s definitely really important to visit the show, I’ll probably wait for the one in bkk in September. 4 k it’s still a reasonable price but due to my job I see buyers buying entire lots of rubies same as mine and sometimes even not as nice, but to get this price “4K” for 2 heated ct same color they need to buy lot of half to 1 million usd at time, then they get 4K price for a stone as mine. Then they sell to distributors , and again to the shops and retails. That’s why I believed retails in a jewelry store must be more than 4K otherwise it doesn’t make sense. I’ll definitely check the show in bkk in September..

 

[Fabri]

Hello everyone, finally the wait is over ! Got my certificates and even put stone on settings ! The heated one for
My mom and the unheated for my little sister. Sorry for the bad quality of the pics !

 

[Bron357]

Very beautiful rings. Your mum and sister are lucky ladies indeed.

 

[icy_jade]

Very stunning rings. You are a wonderful son and brother!

 

[Sunstorm]

Wow these are A amazing rubies and beautiful rings! I especially love the color of the big one and the smaller one is a beauty too. Rare, lucky finds! BTW, Ruby prices are all over the place today, meaning higher being the norm rather Than lower when they are the right color, quality, etc. Origin is a Plus. You really should have then appraised by an appraiser competent in CS because only based on pix here people will not give you the correct value. IMHO, they could be worth way more Than 1000-4000/ct. Get a professional opinion. You are a wonderful family member, what gorgeous gifts!!!

 

[Fabri]

Aww you are all too kind. Unfortunately I don’t get to see them so often.. hope they’ll like it !!

 

[Fabri]

The bigger stone has been classified heated with minor residues H(A). Is this considered a treated stone ? Or only heated ? I’m still confused about it and I don't know if it’s still considered a nice ruby and how it’ll affect the value .. so complicated

 

[MrsBlue]

How beautiful! And so kind and generous of you to have these gifts made.
Your mom and sister will be thrilled!

 

[voce]

You're a wonderful person, gifting these beautiful rings to mom and sister. I wish my brother could do the same haha.

The bigger stone has been classified heated with minor residues H(A). Is this considered a treated stone ? Or only heated ? I’m still confused about it and I don't know if it’s still considered a nice ruby and how it’ll affect the value .. so complicated

Technically this stone has been treated, which does make it uncertain to price, but I still think it's a nice stone to receive as a gift. Visually it's much better than the untreated ruby in terms of the brightness of color and the light return.

 

[Sunstorm]

Yes I agree with @voce and her assessment. Treated=heated, does not matter what we call it, Still it has a very attractive color. It would be insanely expensive if untreated with this color, origin, etc. You got a gorgeous stone, this is what matters. If your point is gifting and not reselling, them rest assured you did very well. If you are concerned about value, again a professional appraisal is what you need.

 

[Fabri]

You are all too kind with your beautiful messages! I Really appreciate it.

 

[Fabri]

Yes I agree with @voce and her assessment. Treated=heated, does not matter what we call it, Still it has a very attractive color. It would be insanely expensive if untreated with this color, origin, etc. You got a gorgeous stone, this is what matters. If your point is gifting and not reselling, them rest assured you did very well. If you are concerned about value, again a professional appraisal is what you need.

You and Voce are right.. stone is really beautiful, my mom will like it. It's just that I didn't expect the stone to be treated as I bought it for heated only. At the end of the story I paid for that 2.17ct something like 9k usd and I tot i made a good deal by the look of it. I'll try to get an appraisal once I get back to Milan for Xmas. Stone is truly beautiful in real, also the guy who made the setting said so, his comment was literally " it's a really beautiful ruby".. and I'm sure he see plenty of it.
But I'm afraid I overpaid after I read is treated even it's only an HA.
Btw thanks again for the lovely messages!

 

[Fabri]

Here’s some videos
Unheated:

Streamable - free video publishing

Check out this video on Streamable using your phone, tablet or desktop.

streamable.com

Heated:

Watch 9g4di | Streamable

Watch this video on Streamable.

streamable.com

 

[Stone Hunter]

These are beautiful rings! What a thoughtful son/brother you are.

 

[Mrs_Strizzle]

Beautiful stones, rings, and sentiment!

 

[MMtwo]

stunning colors and such thoughtful gifts!

 

[Sunstorm]

I think you are just confused about terminology. By treated we mean any form of treatment, in this case it was verified that the treatment is heat only. Heat only is a form of treatment. No, no, this does not mean you over paid! Like I have said I have seen stones in the 3-4 ct range going for 125 K the stone being treated! I have also seen untreated ok stones going for less than 5. It is a combination of many factors such as the components of what determines color, even subtle nuances. Also, the life id the stone, brilliance, clarify, cut, they all matter. CS are not easy to assess! There is no exact formula like in diamonds and even there it can get hard at times. It is also impossible to even make a guess here based on pix. There is no reason that you should be disappointed. I can see you have two nice stones one with gorgeous color close to pure red. So do not worry but getting an appraisal never hurts so you know exactly what you got. Do it locally as you are at the market.

 

[icy_jade]

The bigger stone has been classified heated with minor residues H(A). Is this considered a treated stone ? Or only heated ? I’m still confused about it and I don't know if it’s still considered a nice ruby and how it’ll affect the value .. so complicated

This may help...

Gemstone Enhancement Disclosure - GRS

Understand the different terminology for gemstone treatments and enhancements found in our GRS Reports

gemresearch.ch

Yes is treated.

Best is just heated only (H), and H(a) isn’t so bad

 

[Fabri]

I think you are just confused about terminology. By treated we mean any form of treatment, in this case it was verified that the treatment is heat only. Heat only is a form of treatment. No, no, this does not mean you over paid! Like I have said I have seen stones in the 3-4 ct range going for 125 K the stone being treated! I have also seen untreated ok stones going for less than 5. It is a combination of many factors such as the components of what determines color, even subtle nuances. Also, the life id the stone, brilliance, clarify, cut, they all matter. CS are not easy to assess! There is no exact formula like in diamonds and even there it can get hard at times. It is also impossible to even make a guess here based on pix. There is no reason that you should be disappointed. I can see you have two nice stones one with gorgeous color close to pure red. So do not worry but getting an appraisal never hurts so you know exactly what you got. Do it locally as you are at the market.

Hi Sunstorm, but what about the H(A) grade certified by the lab (you can see in the certificate). I’ve done some research and it means, if I’m not wrong, that the stone has been flux healed during the process of heating with minor residues (the lowest grade in the scale actually ) of borax, which in my case h(a) means only the 0.001 ct of foreign substance.
Basically almost all stone from Mong Hsu mine are flux healed .. problem is that I bought expecting to be only H (heated) and not H(a) .. so now the price I paid is ... I don’t know anymore , too much maybe ? Here the concerns

 

[Fabri]

This may help...

Gemstone Enhancement Disclosure - GRS

Understand the different terminology for gemstone treatments and enhancements found in our GRS Reports

gemresearch.ch

Yes is treated.

Best is just heated only (H), and H(a) isn’t so bad

Yes I spent few hours looking for info regarding the flux healing process.. now everything is more clear. The only thing is not clear in my mind is if I paid the correct price for this H(a) grade stone. Which in this case is 9k usd .. I know it’s hard to tell from pics.. but, what you think ? Is this price appropriate in this case ?

 

[Fabri]

I probably have a sort of OCD but I hate that 0.001 of borax haha

 

[Sunstorm]

So what bothers you if I understand correctly that the stone was misrepresented by the seller correct? Well, yes that is understandable and you should contact the seller about that. This is something to settle with him because if a stone is H (a) then it should not be sold as H. Of course seller may not have known, not very likely if it was a gem dealer, but possible.

Of course no indication of heat is best in an ideal world, H is second best and desirable but H (a) well that is totally up to you if you find it acceptable or not. But if not then you should have contacted the seller about it prior to setting the stone. That said it still is a beautiful stone. Great gift.

Like I said impossible to say here about value. Please contact someone local who can actually see it. Price was probably ok but perhaps others will venture a guess.

I cannot because it is liability to me I just cannot take here and also I would consider it as violating the rules of this forum. I can only say what I have said and I do think you got some amazing gifts!

 

[Bron357]

My understanding of H(a) is that the “residue” is incidental not intentional which to improve the gem.
GRS I believe is also “very tough” on their reports which is why they are so highly regarded.
And I am also aware that some people will also try other labs to ”see” if they can get a “heat only” lab report.
in terms of price, there is absolutely no doubt that “no evidence of heat” is by far the most desirable result and causes the price per carat to go sky high but H(a) does not deter most buyers.
in terms of price, I think you said $9,000 for the 2 carat one? For a Burmese ruby of top colour I think that price was very cheap.

 

[voce]

I agree with @Sunstorm in that I think if H(a) bothered you, you should've taken it up with the seller before setting the stone. Normally it's good practice to extract a promise from the seller before purchasing it to be able to return the stone if the lab report doesn't confirm what is claimed by the seller about the treatment, if any, of the stone.

Although, if it's .001 ct, it's possible that the seller might also have been fooled, maybe because they themselves wanted to believe it's H, not H(a), so they might not have checked the ruby as thoroughly as a lab would.

Here are a couple rings for around $9k USD. https://eragem.com/ej60117.html and https://eragem.com/rx15760.html although neither stone is as beautiful as yours or is of Burmese origin, which would drive up the price.

What I personally think is that $3,000/ct is a fair price for a heat-only ruby of African origin around 1 ct size as clean and beautiful as yours, and $6,000/ct is a fair price for a heat-only ruby of African origin of around 2 ct size. Had your Burmese ruby been heat-only, $9k USD was definitely a steal compared to "standard" market prices.

What's tricky, is that there's no good data on H(a) pricing compared to (H) pricing. I've seen other vendors on Etsy try to pass off H(a) stones as heat-only. The best answer I have for you is comparison to this heated-with-residues ruby from Mastercut Gems. Yes, this ruby offered by Mastercut Gems is only 1.07 ct, but I'm estimating a 2-ct stone to be double the price per carat as a 1 ct stone. The Mastercut price is roughly $1400/ct for sale price, which I take to be around wholesale price/ct, and around $2550/ct full price, which I use as a proxy for retail price/ct. At the wholesale price/ct, I estimate your ruby to be worth at least around $5600, (2x2x1400), and at the retail price/ct, it would be worth $12k, if my assumptions about the pricing are correct. Of course, the Mastercut Gems ruby is silkier, and yours has better clarity, even though both are heated with clarity residues (same level of treatment).

In short, I think the price you paid is within the range of reasonable prices, although it is no great steal.

 

[Sunstorm]

I agree with the the above and think you did find. You were definitely not ripped off rest assured. How well you did should be no problem to find out. You already got two reports, getting an appraisal should pose no difficulty at all. But it will be good to have for your peace of mind and you could actually find that it is worth much more.

 

[Fabri]

oh thanks a lot ! This is exactly what I was I looking for. I searched a lot but I couldn’t find any information related to prices qnd grade of treatments, only technical infos about the process of healing fractures. At least I’ve learnt so many things! My eyes are bleeding for the many researches i did last couple of days. Haha
thank you Bron, Voce and Sunstorm for the very clear informations, it’ll be useful in researches for other users of the forum too, I’m sure. Because what you wrote is the only info i can find about this topic on the entire forum !
Btw I am thinking about something exciting, I don’t know if any of you works with jewelry and stones or it’s just a hobby like it is for me. And I don’t know if it’s against the rules of the forum too having a talk about possible projects. Anyway it just came in my mind this morning while reading your comments.l and drink my coffee.
Thanks again so much to everyone !

P.s I will ask for an appraisal in a Milan and post here the results end of December so we can see

 

[voce]

I just realized I did my mental math wrong yesterday, and 4x2550 is $10.2k. I'm glad you're able to get peace of mind about this.