America is Regressing

[redwood66]

It will be very interesting to follow this project over the coming years. I know some PSrs didn't understand why others thought it was so important to protest and participate in marches recently. But the thing is, without people willing to go against the grain, be disliked, be mocked, and be brave enough to do all this very publicly, changes like the ones my coworkers and I are trying to make would never occur, and the bad takes over the good. Because of complacency.

I am glad that it worked out and I hope your program does what it is intended to do. The more that programs like this which cost little help a community, the more will sprout up if the positive outcomes are made known.

I am not against any kind of marching. But it can't be just marching. More positive things need to be done like what you are doing. If neither side opens their eyes and ears then we get nowhere.

Edit - Lots of guns does not mean that you are a scourge of society - though the tweeked out zombie part does.

 

[OreoRosies86]

I wish I could hit like 10000x on that post Monnie.

 

[telephone89]

$65 rent? Lol yeah, that's totally comparable to what someone could get now a days on minimum wage Those damn poor people just not trying hard enough!

 

[OreoRosies86]

$65 rent? Lol yeah, that's totally comparable to what someone could get now a days on minimum wage Those damn poor people just not trying hard enough!

$65 doesn't cover lunch for the week for two children.

 

[monarch64]

I am glad that it worked out and I hope your program does what it is intended to do. The more that programs like this which cost little help a community, the more will sprout up if the positive outcomes are made known.

I am not against any kind of marching. But it can't be just marching. More positive things need to be done like what you are doing. If neither side opens their eyes and ears then we get nowhere.

Edit - Lots of guns does not mean that you are a scourge of society - though the tweeked out zombie part does.

I know. You're right. I think the people I've known who have a lot of guns must just be the dumb ones. Like a neighbor who thought it was ok for her boyfriend to leave his loaded shotgun on the top shelf of her bedroom closet because of course her kids would never climb up there and want to look at it. Or like my new neighbor who had 16 guns confiscated from his home a couple weeks ago--I came home to 14 LE vehicles parked around my house and blocking off entrances/exits in neighborhood--after he went to his wife's place of employment that happens to be a daycare, slammed down his wedding ring and divorce papers, and dramatically fired a handgun in the air outside. (My stbx was like, oh yeah, I know that guy, he's totally harmless and that was a complete fluke; he just lost it for a few hours.) And countless other tales of idgits with too much testosterone and not enough brainpower. But I digress. There are obviously educated folks out there who appreciate weaponry and shooting for the sport of it, and I am not an advocate of gun bans, because I am inherently against banning things, period.

I would encourage people who would like to cut government funding go out into their community and volunteer. Be a mentor. Actively SHOW people what it looks like to be a positive contributor to society. Coach a team or donate funds to pay for uniforms or gear. Etcetera. Be part of the change. Because it's true; throwing money at issues does NOT make them go away. And I agree with the conservative ideology that it can be enabling.

 

[redwood66]

I would encourage people who would like to cut government funding go out into their community and volunteer. Be a mentor. Actively SHOW people what it looks like to be a positive contributor to society. Coach a team or donate funds to pay for uniforms or gear. Etcetera. Be part of the change. Because it's true; throwing money at issues does NOT make them go away. And I agree with the conservative ideology that it can be enabling.

I want to like this a million times.

 

[jaaron]

Redwood, I think I've mentioned this before but I'm going to throw it out there again. (I am all for working towards a day when we don't need to keep "throwing money at it.") One of the projects I've been working on with a local school system is an education/workforce initiative. Basically it's a program we developed to get workplaces to partner with the school to give students the initiative to stay in school, maintain good attendance and grades, and be guaranteed an interview with a company when they graduate. The students who participate will receive a certificate kind of like a letter of recommedation, stating they had completed the program by demonstrating a good work ethic by doing the things a job requires--showing up consistently, on time, and performing effectively. While it seems basic, and some would say unnecessary, in this particularly depressed area we have a lot of kids who aren't motivated to stay in school because they think it's easier to drop out and cook meth than it is to find gainful employment. This benefits the entire community, without really a ton of effort or money (the school applied for and received a grant from the state; the employers stand to benefit by confidently hiring young people with demonstrated good work ethics, the town benefits because its population is gainfully employed, etc.) You know, working together, without a boatload of government involvement aside from the public school and little bit of state funding. #goals

That sounds like a great initiative. It's so nice to hear about concrete actions right now.

 

[jaaron]

I was wondering if anyone else saw this

http://releases.jhu.edu/2017/04/05/...acher-black-students-more-likely-to-graduate/

I found it both depressing that such a small thing can have such a huge effect, and heartening that such a small thing can have such a huge effect.

 

[Dancing Fire]

DF, did your family emigrate in this time period?
http://www.shmoop.com/1960s/timeline.html

Did you think this was a reason why they were able to emigrate?
http://www.asian-nation.org/1965-immigration-act.shtml
Yes, and I'll always be grateful to Prez. Kennedy.

Do you think this was helpful for your family?
http://elcoushistory.tripod.com/economics1960.html
Not really helpful to us chinese b/c we didn't speak english but it did help many Americans.

Would you agree that the 1960s, American economy, was quite different than it is today?
Do you remember the inflationary period in the 1970s? (I do, but i'm 64).

I was too young to remember about the 60's. However, I'd remember the inflationary period of the 1970's


One thing that has changed is social mores. What do we do about this? or should we?
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article...unmarried-women-exceeded-40-8th-straight-year
IMO, parents should be responsible for raising their kids not the taxpayers.


What the root of the problem is and has been for the last 30 years imho.. loss of jobs.. loss of the middle class (which I have been reading about since the 70s)... growth of good jobs, not low paying jobs..

Again back to my point about getting a good education. How can one expect a high paying job w/o a good education? ...Sure I would love to make $50 an hr. right out of HS, but it ain't gonna happen.

 

[monarch64]

Thanks, jaaron. When the results of the last election were announced, a friend and I decided the only thing we could do was to try to stay positive and keep trying to effect change. As much as I love bitching about Donnie on the internet, better to at least try to counteract some of the negativity, right? It's hard, though!

I was wondering if anyone else saw this

http://releases.jhu.edu/2017/04/05/...acher-black-students-more-likely-to-graduate/

I found it both depressing that such a small thing can have such a huge effect, and heartening that such a small thing can have such a huge effect.

I think the positive part about people needing to follow a leader or have boundaries and rules to abide by in life is evident in things like this. And I think that's why so many liberals are so disappointed and upset by the POTUS spewing vile things about other cultures and races and talking about building walls to exclude others. You reap what you sow. Positivity begets positivity, and vice versa. His old school fear tactics really honed in on a base that responds to those things because that's what they've known all their lives. The above article demonstrates that a positive leader cultivates positive change. I don't understand what the heck is so hard about that concept. Well, yes, I do. Back to humans hating change.

 

[Dancing Fire]

$65 doesn't cover lunch for the week for two children.

This was back in the early 70's before you were born!.. school lunch was a 25 cents back then.

 

[vintagelover229]

I am one of 3 people in my family who have 'pulled out of poverty' in both my fathers side and my mothers side. That is one uncle on one side (one very successful-partner at whitecase lawfirm in NYC and has little/nothing to do with the family) and one uncle on the other side. Everyone else continued the drug abuse cycle, due to extreme trauma that they experienced as well as neglect. It's by the grace of God, sheer will power, and a window of being adopted late in life by a good family that gave me any sort of chance to make a different path for myself. I met my husband after string of following in my parents footsteps-thankfully I was terrified of drugs but I used drinking as a coping/social thing that got a bit out of hand, and he gave me enough stability to begin the cycle of healing my inner self as well as my mental and emotional areas that were greatly messed up due to things out of my control.

My younger half sisters were also adopted, same family, at a MUCH younger age than myself. One returned (like I was at 17) to our bio family and ended up marrying someone from the really crappy place we come from. She is doing much better than most in that area, but still by comparison will live in poverty likely all of her life. All bc the area is NOT a good place to rise above (crappy factory swing shift jobs, high rent/cost of living, little to no good insurance, etc). My youngest who was 1 when we were taken away moved in with her high school bf in the trailer park outside of town (much to my adopted parents horror) and got a pit bull. I think she isn't doing too bad all things considered but I can say without a shadow of a doubt my parents certainly didn't expect ME to be the one to become a healthy, emotionally and mentally sane woman and then have my youngest baby sister move into a trailer park. Which coming from where I do (not even the same state I was adopted in) my folks really need to take a look at where SHE lives and compare it to the ones were I grew up when I was younger. Not even the same planet. I believe she is young and is still finding herself and the trailer gave them an option to 'own something' verses rent something in their area that was unaffordable for them.

When I go home to see my bio family it's very strange for me. I can relate to them on almost every level but now that we drive a nice car (nothing fancy Ford SUV) and own a home (that we have/are gutting every square inch of) it's like I'm an alien to these everyone in that town. I talk differently, I see things differently, behave differently since I am of a healthy mindset. I understand why/how/everything about them but it takes YEARS of a STABLE ENVIRONMENT (if you can even live in it after being raised in such a different environment) to even begin to realize just how many things were miswired in yourself and begin making small changes that over time lead to a totally different emotional and mental awareness.

Survival mode, seeing abuse/experiencing neglect, sexual violence/drug/alcohol abuse is totally normal and unless you come out of it, from it, have lived it none of you have the cability of understanding. Many may have some insight based on chosen professions or having family members who chose a different path and seeing/having some of the affects ooze into your own life.

As far as welfare goes, for every one that abuses it there is one that it helps. I will say that everyone in my family except my mother at this point (and the family members who are successful) are on some form of assistance, be it food/housing/insurance/etc.
My dad would be homeless I am sure if it wasn't for his disability (drug addict and crazy, which probably pisses a lot of you off knowing your tax dollars are going to him) or dead at this point in time if it wasn't for HUD and SSI. He has case managers who handle all of his money, meds, etc.
Is my dad totally broken beyond repair at this point, yes. Is there someone else who probably is less of a 'broken' person (meaning drug abuser) who could use it more, I'm certain there is.
Am I glad it's there for him so he's not out wandering the streets like a crazy person not knowing where he is, if he's hurt (or hurting someone else) and that he is safe, no doubt about it.
He has a good heart but between a messed up childhood, bad decisions in his youth/young adult life, it set him on a path that is nearly impossible to undo.

The path to stability not only financially but also mentally/emotionally/spiritually for even people who come from 'stable' homes is usually one full of up's and downs and self discovery. For those who didn't have that, the cycles are very difficult to break. It is possible with a strong will, a great support system and a strong safety net. But if those were to come later in life (which is not likely, usually you hitch your wagon up to someone as broken/more broken than yourself) many can't even handle it bc it's just such a foreign environment for them to be in. Most if not all want more/a different life but even when they are given the recipe, ingredients the cookies still come out under baked, or burnt.

The one sister I mentioned who married someone in that town, he has a drug addiction (pills). He's had it since he was a kid (probably 15) and its an opiate addiction. The help they offer addicts (if you can get it) is usually just prescription alternatives which according to my father, are even harder to get off of than heroin. My sister works a job that gives her hours the day of (gas station) and her hubs works shut downs currently at different factories. Many of the people they rely on for child care are okay options, but well, aren't cheap either.
It's a no win situation. If they work they don't get as much in help-but when they don't work they get more in help but neither is enough to actually get them to a place where they can stand fully on their own two feet. Makes my sad for her, knowing how hard they work-the challenges that they face-but even if you gave them money who knows if it would go to savings/where it needs to go. Like when they get tax returns they take a cheap hotel family vacation. And why not? Should they not be allowed to relax in a pool (by most standards its not even a vacation) when they work as they do?
Like bc they don't have a savings, live from paycheck to paycheck we should expect them to forgo all things that most can do/save to do?

I'm rambling. Darn pregnancy brain and 2 kids running around and I need a vacation myself!

 

[Dancing Fire]

I'm rambling. Darn pregnancy brain and 2 kids running around and I need a vacation myself!

At least you can afford a vacation...

 

[OreoRosies86]

This was back in the early 70's before you were born!.. school lunch was a 25 cents back then.

Sounds nice.

 

[vintagelover229]

DF:
Your right, we can. But its not without sacrifices (I guess such as most people). Our vacation always usually stems around visiting my family, and to say going there/spending money visiting always leaves a bit of a bitter taste in my mouth. We also have been in our home for 5 years, and I am yet in my master loft though my husband recently did get half of the dry wall up. Spending a couple of thousand heading to the states, plus the exchange rate that is awful-is something we think carefully about but I haven't seen my family in nearly 2 years now (both my adopted and my bio family). This time we aren't staying long and it's just on the way home while we camp and see other sites, but still-its no cruise or blue ocean sandy beach sort of holiday.
Still, we are very fortunate. My husband does well for himself, works hard but right now is away for nearly 2 weeks while I hold down the fort homeschooling 2 young kids as well as being 6 months pregnant. We have only one car, so I am not able to do much during the day/during the week unless I drive him to work early in the AM which is a 45 min commute with the 2 young boys, its a long day for everyone if we go that route.

I realize these are very small inconveniences compared to many people. We are able to have a chest freezer full of meat directly from the farm, I blog of a local organic farm and we get our organic veggies delivered during share season to our door free of charge for my time, and I am able to stay home while many people don't have that option-since my husband is very talented and handy and we were able to buy a home for a price that was well within our means, though it requires time/energy and funds to fix it up. I am a blessed woman, no doubt about it. I am grateful for all I've been though, came from and don't expect a handout from anyone for anything. But am grateful that it was there when I was an innocent child suffering at the hands of addicted and irresponsible parents, bc without it I'm not sure where I would have ended up.

 

[Tekate]

As I said before, training, a high school education that fits the youth's educational ability and their desire. I put all the stuff about IBM so you could read what may be a solution.

 

[Dancing Fire]

As I said before, training, a high school education that fits the youth's educational ability and their desire. I put all the stuff about IBM so you could read what may be a solution.

Sounds good to me but doubt these new jobs will be anywhere near $50 an hr. Now you must give Trump a pat on the back...

 

[AnnaH]

Been busy and not following the news, but I understand that the federal budget is making few if any cuts. Not that I think Washington has many answers.
I agree with many who have posted regarding education. As long as federal and even state legislators are in charge, common sense will be lacking. Their children attend either highly rated public schools or private schools and are, at the least, four year college bound. Most legislators appear clueless.
Of course, an appropriate education for each American is important. But what are the opportunities after school? As technology, etc. has changed the available jobs, where do we direct students? Plumbers and welders can make a living, for example, but only so many are needed. Where and what are the jobs that can support a family? Places such as North Dakota are doing well but can accommodate just so many workers. Trump talks about keeping manufacturing jobs here, but how much will that help?
I'm asking because I don't know. What I do know is that for decades the federal budget has been growing. The liberal leadership of the last eight years had no answers, and, so far, neither has the current leadership (although time will tell.)
Personally, I and mine are fine, but the country as a whole--no.

 

[cmd2014]

If my non speaking English parents can make it w/o depending on social programs so should Americans who were born in US....

The bottom line is you must work/help yourself out of poverty. A welfare career doesn't help anyone out of poverty.

Dancing Fire,

While I really admire your family and other immigrant families who face huge challenges in making a life for themselves, I think you are failing to see what some of us who actually work with these populations of people are trying to tell you - that the challenges faced by many of the groups that make use of social assistance programs isn't just poverty stemming from a transient unfortunate situation like yours - and that hard work, determination, and the opportunity to attend school won't solve many of the problems that perpetuate the cycle of poverty that we see in these groups. If it was simple, the problem would be solved by now. For all your struggles, from what I have gleaned you were still blessed with a family that loved you, that was capable of working (with siblings that were old enough to do so), that didn't struggle with severe mental health issues, that was sober, that didn't abuse you or sex traffic you or continuously put you into unsafe situations where others were able to cause you harm, or that were too drunk/stoned/hungover to even notice whether or not you bathed, ate, or went to school, and that had hope and a plan for how to make it better. This is exponentially more than what most of the children/adults from these communities that I see have been given. I can't help but think that unless the circumstances are equivalent, we can't really judge others by what we were able to achieve.

I think that programs like what Monarch is working in are probably the way to a better future. I'm always in awe of people who are willing/able to give of themselves in this way, because it's surely not easy.

 

[Tekate]

Sounds good to me but doubt these new jobs will be anywhere near $50 an hr. Now you must give Trump a pat on the back...

Well since they were proposed BEFORE his presidency, no.. but I give business a pat on the back. And I doubt they pay 50.00$ an hour but certainly 25.00$ probably.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Dancing Fire,

This is exponentially more than what most of the children/adults from these communities that I see have been given. I can't help but think that unless the circumstances are equivalent, we can't really judge others by what we were able to achieve.

Making more excuses for people living in poverty?? ...

FYI, most of my childhood friends live in the projects when they first immigrated to the U.S., and yes few of them were on welfare and stamps till their parents found a job. None of my childhood friends grew up in a white affluent neighborhood. Most of our classmates were minorities.

 

[sstephensid]

Making more excuses for people living in poverty?? ...

FYI, most of my childhood friends live in the projects when they first immigrated to the U.S., and yes few of them were on welfare and stamps till their parents found a job. None of my childhood friends grew up in a white affluent neighborhood. Most of our classmates were minorities.

You do realize it's not the 60's, 70's, or 80's anymore, right? Cost of living is far different. The types of jobs available and salaries with no education are completely different. Jobs require more and more education. Look, my dad worked and retired from GM with just a high school diploma. He made a good living. He worked hard. Factory work isn't easy. But a high school graduate can't walk into a factory making that kind of money anymore.

A married man in his 30's mows our lawns. He does this on the side because he works multiple part-time jobs. He works anywhere from 40-60 hours a week. During the summer closer to 60. In the winter closer to 40. His family barely makes ends meet. He is the hardest working person I know. His story is not a unicorn sighting.

Do you genuinely think all poor people are lazy? Do you think most poor people are lazy? Of course I'm sure some are. Plenty of middle class and wealthy people are lazy.

It's great you worked hard and had financial success. That doesn't mean other hard workers always will too. Not everyone lives in a city with job opportunities, public transportation, or has their health to be able to work around the clock to make ends meet. Not everyone has a family to help chip in. Not everyone has a spouse to share the workload of childcare.

 

[Dancing Fire]

You do realize it's not the 60's, 70's, or 80's anymore, right? Cost of living is far different. The types of jobs available and salaries with no education are completely different. Jobs require more and more education. Look, my dad worked and retired from GM with just a high school diploma. He made a good living. He worked hard. Factory work isn't easy. But a high school graduate can't walk into a factory making that kind of money anymore.

Agree, thus the reason I am advocate of higher level of education for all kids.

 

[OreoRosies86]

And how are you an "advocate"? Wagging your diamond clad finger at poor people on a luxury goods forum isn't advocating for educational opportunities.

 

[Dancing Fire]

And how are you an "advocate"? Wagging your diamond clad finger at poor people on a luxury goods forum isn't advocating for educational opportunities.

There are poor people on PS?? ...think you better check out SMTB forum.

 

[arkieb1]

Agree, thus the reason I am advocate of higher level of education for all kids.

I think the point you are sidestepping, is many of these kids with ADHD, autism and a whole host of other physical, social and mental issues can be given all the education you want, it still won't make many of them employable.

While I greatly admire the things your family had to overcome, and there are some things in my families history not unlike your own, in 2017 your brother might not have just been able to get a job as a kitchenhand or a cook or whatever at night because imagine now, there are no such jobs. The labour market compared to back then and now has shrunk.

People who want jobs can't get them. So yes I agree you need more job creation but jobs that are future proofed in service industries, in technology, not just revamping old outdated factory jobs which will bolster your economy short term but help create yet another recession if not managed properly.

Read Vintagelovers background again, compare it to your own, she escaped the cycle of poverty because she was adopted by someone else, many of the children stuck in environments like this don't get that chance. You and your family were not drug addicts or drug dealers, so that is another primary difference between back and and now. The Ice epidemic is exactly that a widespread epidemic that is literally destroying families, communities both in the US and in Australia, you didn't have to contend with that.

I think what we are all trying to say is that on top of all the other things you overcame, many of these children and people face what you faced, PLUS you have to add the drugs, environments where children are frequently neglected and or assaulted or not safe, a higher cost of living and way way less available jobs to even make it a fair comparison. So you see more education will help fix this gap for some people but for a many, it won't change a thing.

 

[Dancing Fire]

I think what we are all trying to say is that on top of all the other things you overcame, many of these children and people face what you faced, PLUS you have to add the drugs, environments where children are frequently neglected and or assaulted or not safe, a higher cost of living and way way less available jobs to even make it a fair comparison. So you see more education will help fix this gap for some people but for a many, it won't change a thing.

Nope, nothing will change unless they are willing to change themselves.

 

[arkieb1]

Nope, nothing will change unless they are willing to change themselves.

Many are willing to change but are unable to change due to circumstance or are unable to change because like Vintagelover's family members they can't see any other way of life. That is the type of education you need, not just black and white schooling, not just keeping more people in school, but actual education about how to live a sensible meaningful life without drugs, how to teach your children how to get out of the cycle of poverty and abuse.

 

[azstonie]

DF, you've expressed a healthy curiosity about your fellow posters here on PS: Specifically, what they do for a living. Now I'm curious about you---I don't recall that information about you, although you've shared about your new-grad RN daughter, for example.

Care to share?

 

[Dancing Fire]

DF, you've expressed a healthy curiosity about your fellow posters here on PS: Specifically, what they do for a living. Now I'm curious about you---I don't recall that information about you, although you've shared about your new-grad RN daughter, for example.

Care to share?

Yea, She have been working for 4 months now...just save myself $1500 bucks on auto insurance.... guess who was paying her auto insurance all these yrs?..

I used to buy/sell American coins. I still do now and then just for fun...