Allegations against Harvey Weinstein

[nala]

Of course it happens to men too, I never said it didn't so please don't try to go there with me. I was in my feelings a lot about this the past few days. Having a conversation about exploitation and assault on women and young girls does not in any way diminish a man's experience. But to me trying to say "But it happens to men too" right at this moment is like saying "But all lives matter." Yes of course they do, but right now women are having a moment to talk about this.

But it’s hollywood. And there are plenty of men who have been in a similar situation, but probably don’t share it bc then they will be labeled as gay and omg, can’t have a heartthrob is he’s a gay. Please address that. And don’t tell me that all this time you’ve held Hollywood’s morals to a high standard. Don’t tell me you are seriously shocked that this shit was happening. Bc no one is that naive. That’s all. Done.

 

[OreoRosies86]

But it’s hollywood. And there are plenty of men who have been in a similar situation, but probably don’t share it bc then they will be labeled as gay and omg, can’t have a heartthrob is he’s a gay. Please address that. And don’t tell me that all this time you’ve held Hollywood’s morals to a high standard. Don’t tell me you are seriously shocked that this shit was happening. Bc no one is that naive. That’s all. Done.

K then.

 

[lovedogs]

Being a victim of rape or assault is different than consenting or listening to the wold penis, IMO.

I'm confused--were they equated in this thread? Or by the women coming forward from Hollywood?

 

[telephone89]

So two things - I believe it was brought up earlier in this thread (or perhaps im merging threads from various sites) about Corey Feldman. He was on the View with Barbara Walters discussing his experiences as a child and Barbara said "youre calling them pedophiles? ... Youre damaging a whole industry"
https://pagesix.com/2017/10/18/barbara-walters-faces-backlash-after-corey-feldman-clip-resurfaces/
We know it happens to men. We know it happens to women. No one is ignoring men by discussing that it happens to women. Its just as bad when a male victim is shamed or ignored after bringing it up and if a man cant bring it up, how can a woman feel safe to?

Second - @lovedogs You might like this article. Similar to what you feel, but from the opposite side. So many people discussing really serious PTSD causing trauma, and people dont want to come forward with their own trauma, lest it be seen as lesser. https://totalsororitymove.com/literally-why-cant-i-say-metoo/

 

[Matata]

o many people discussing really serious PTSD causing trauma, and people dont want to come forward with their own trauma, lest it be seen as lesser.

I've seen a few pieces slamming #MeToo on the claim that constant outrage expressed on social media tends to dull the senses toward the issue. What I hope comes from #MeToo and the Weinstein case is horror at the numbers of victims and a sustained discussion about sexual abuse that leads to positive cultural change. It would be a disservice to all victims if the conversation turned into a competition about whose abuse is more relevant, more traumatic, PTSD-inducing vs non PTSD-inducing. I can't image the level of damage that would engender and I hope it doesn't become a reality.

 

[Calliecake]

I hope this movement brings about change. Too many women have been affected and I too am furious that the discussion is always what the women should do, how we should act, dress. In my mind it's very simple. Men need to quit raping and abusing women period.

 

[lovedogs]

Second - @lovedogs You might like this article. Similar to what you feel, but from the opposite side. So many people discussing really serious PTSD causing trauma, and people dont want to come forward with their own trauma, lest it be seen as lesser. https://totalsororitymove.com/literally-why-cant-i-say-metoo/

Thanks @telephone89 ! This is really well-written and just underscores the problem with how pervasive "rape culture" (or whatever term people prefer) is, even among women. The fact that people doubt their own experiences, or if they were "bad enough" to "count" is incredibly sad. But I get it, because I feel the same way a majority of the time. Admitting the stuff that happened on here is easier because it's "anonymous", mostly. In "real life" it's much harder.

EDIT. @Matata I agree with what you are saying completely, and hope it was clear that I think everyone should be free to speak up about sexual harassment, assault, etc. I was just trying to express confusing feelings about reading about all of this online, and feeling "different" or "outside" of it in a weird way.

 

[rainydaze]

Saw this on FB the other day. He makes a good point. Language and narrative are two things that also need to change.

This.

I have often thought aobut how I feel discomfort with the idea of telling a female "It wasn't your fault", as I have seen it suggested we do and have seen it played out in literature, dialogues, and movies. But why? The intention behind it is good. But it spotlights the female, the victim, and frames the assualt in the light of what 'happened to her'. That subtly suggests she played some active role in her assault, even though we are trying to confirm the opposite for her.

It's like telling a child they were a 'good girl/boy'... it suggests that the opposite is *possible*, that s/he are *capable* of being a 'bad girl/boy'. And once that suggestion exists, it's hard not to receive that message.

Wouldn't it be more helpful to say "It was his fault."? We need to be spotlighting the males who assualt, who rape. They are the ones who should feel shame, they are the ones we should be shining the spotlight on. And maybe once they start feeling this shame - publicly, like women have had to endure for centuries even though the shame is not theirs to bear - maybe then we will start to see some shifts in behaviors and attitudes.

 

[rainydaze]

About the 'Me Too' movement. It's powerful, it certainly opened my eyes even wider to just how many more women have suffered sexual assualt and abuse than I ever realized.

However, yet again, it puts the spotlight on victims and not the assaulters.

What about a 'Him Too' movement instead? Where we can post about what he did, not that it happened to us too. Post his relationship to you (boss, father, relative, family friend, etc.) and what his crime against you was. Out HIM, not you. (And by that I don't mean by giving the abusers names necessarily. I mean showing the world how many males are assaulting females rather than how many females are 'being assaulted'.)

Because there is no shame for me in what HE did. The spotlight is on him, let him take the stage... he earned it.

Intentions are in the right place, but let's shift the spotlight so it shines not on the victims, but rather on the perpetrators.

 

[valeria101]

#MeeToo

If only rape is not OK, tell me where the other world is ...

Then, I have heard the question to which this mighty hashtag is The answer: 'Don't free womenfolk like it ?'

#MeeToo

 

[House Cat]

I remember when the internet was just a baby, there was a website where women could identify their attackers by name and describe what was done to them. That would be the sledgehammer version of #himtoo.

That site didn't last too long.

@lovedogs, I'm sorry for what you went through. I wish there was a way to send actual hugs across the internet to you.

I am doing a new form of EMDR that has you focus solely on a happy memory, then you very, very briefly flash on the trauma, then go back to focusing on the happy memory. This all takes place while watching an object very slowly move back and forth. When you flash on the trauma, you don't even bring up an image in your mind.

This is perfect because there is no reliving it. None. I have only done my first session with this method yesterday. I just thought I would put this out there for anyone who might want to look into it.

 

[telephone89]

Thanks @telephone89 ! This is really well-written and just underscores the problem with how pervasive "rape culture" (or whatever term people prefer) is, even among women. The fact that people doubt their own experiences, or if they were "bad enough" to "count" is incredibly sad. But I get it, because I feel the same way a majority of the time. Admitting the stuff that happened on here is easier because it's "anonymous", mostly. In "real life" it's much harder.

EDIT. @Matata I agree with what you are saying completely, and hope it was clear that I think everyone should be free to speak up about sexual harassment, assault, etc. I was just trying to express confusing feelings about reading about all of this online, and feeling "different" or "outside" of it in a weird way.

+100. It's why I also haven't posted on FB either. Its a complicated subject, not one that is black and white/right or wrong [in how people react].

 

[telephone89]

About the 'Me Too' movement. It's powerful, it certainly opened my eyes even wider to just how many more women have suffered sexual assualt and abuse than I ever realized.

However, yet again, it puts the spotlight on victims and not the assaulters.

What about a 'Him Too' movement instead? Where we can post about what he did, not that it happened to us too. Post his relationship to you (boss, father, relative, family friend, etc.) and what his crime against you was. Out HIM, not you. (And by that I don't mean by giving the abusers names necessarily. I mean showing the world how many males are assaulting females rather than how many females are 'being assaulted'.)

Because there is no shame for me in what HE did. The spotlight is on him, let him take the stage... he earned it.

Intentions are in the right place, but let's shift the spotlight so it shines not on the victims, but rather on the perpetrators.

I agree with all of this. Does it matter how many women are assaulted/harassed? I don't think so. It matters that men have done/are still doing/are going to continue. TBH, if something didnt come from the #yesallwomen (except #notallmen *eyeroll*) then I don't expect much (yes! I'm cynical that way). I don't know if men realizing how many women are effected will do anything until THEY start to realize that THEY are part of the problem (or the entire problem). Thats why I enjoyed the #howiwillchange, because it actually showed they were listening. Not, "oh thats so sad, so many women are assaulted". FVck that. DO something about it.

 

[Calliecake]

Thank you @Bonfire I'm fine now and the police treated me so kind. It was many years ago and it's seems like so little has changed.

 

[lovedogs]

This article is nice because I feel like it presents both sides of the coin (those who love the "me too", and those who feel re-"triggered" by it).

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/h...rvey-weinstein-news-can-be-triggering-n811496

 

[PintoBean]

Viral campaign by a man for Men- how I will change
https://nextshark.com/benjamin-law-...sault-awareness-campaign-with-howiwillchange/

 

[Calliecake]

It makes me sad to think that this campaign is giving many woman panic attacks.


38 women have come forward to accuse another director (James Toback) of sexual harassment.

 

[Arkteia]

Being a victim of rape or assault is different than consenting or listening to the wold penis, IMO.

There is a term "sleeping one's way up", it is often used in movie and fashion industry. And probably someone did... otherwise, how come I was watching "Sunset Boulevard" yesterday and thinking, "there are very few talented actresses left in Hollywood"? So not everyone was necessarily raped.

But there is another side of it. I have just read about Weinstein once asking "Is she fu...ble?" (about a proposed actress for a movie... I think she was a person of color). The producer he wanted to employ said, "She is a good actress" and advised something about not following one's dick... and consequently, lost the job.

So while there might have been some actresses whom Weinstein casted because of their "fu...ability" and not real talent, and who might have been pretty consenting in view of big roles, there is another side to it...

There is an actress who did not get the job because she had principles (or something that made Weinstein doubt her "fu..ability"), and the producer who lost the job for the same reason, because he wanted to make a movie with a talented actress who would not sleep with Weinstein.

And maybe the loss was not only for these two, but for the movie industry, for all of us. And how many times had it happened? And why do we wonder that the same actresses, some of them with pretty graphic nicknames in Hollywood, are constantly cast and made into mega-stars, and others never get the chance?

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

Made the cover of Time.

cheers--Sharon

 

[Matata]

He should be chemically castrated as should all rapists.

 

[MollyMalone]

* * * I have just read about Weinstein once asking "Is she fu...ble?" (about a proposed actress for a movie... I think she was a person of color). The producer he wanted to employ said, "She is a good actress" and advised something about not following one's dick... and consequently, lost the job.

So while there might have been some actresses whom Weinstein casted because of their "fu...ability" and not real talent, and who might have been pretty consenting in view of big roles, there is another side to it...

There is an actress who did not get the job because she had principles (or something that made Weinstein doubt her "fu..ability"), and the producer who lost the job for the same reason, because he wanted to make a movie with a talented actress who would not sleep with Weinstein.

And maybe the loss was not only for these two, but for the movie industry, for all of us. And how many times had it happened? And why do we wonder that the same actresses, some of them with pretty graphic nicknames in Hollywood, are constantly cast and made into mega-stars, and others never get the chance?

Sophie Okonedo was the actress whom director Michael Caton-Jones wanted to cast in the leading female role in B. Monkey (the role that ended up going to Asia Argento). Here's the interview Caton-Jones gave to BuzzFeed about the hotel meeting with Weinstein 20 years ago & its immediate aftermath:
https://www.buzzfeed.com/claudiarosenbaum/harvey-weinstein-lead-role-recast

Lupita Nyong's account of her encounters with Weinstein has yet been posted in this thread, so here's the link; it too will make your blood boil:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/19/opinion/lupita-nyongo-harvey-weinstein.html

 

[Arkteia]

Sophie Okonedo was the actress whom director Michael Caton-Jones wanted to cast in the leading female role in B. Monkey (the role that ended up going to Asia Argento). Here's the interview Caton-Jones gave to BuzzFeed about the hotel meeting with Weinstein 20 years ago & its immediate aftermath:
https://www.buzzfeed.com/claudiarosenbaum/harvey-weinstein-lead-role-recast

Lupita Nyong's account of her encounters with Weinstein has yet been posted in this thread, so here's the link; it too will make your blood boil:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/19/opinion/lupita-nyongo-harvey-weinstein.html

Exactly. I am very happy Lupita made it on her own. Her account is extremely well-written, too.
As to Calton-jones, it is scary how much power Weinstein wielded. The press was afraid of honestly covering the incident at that time.
And it seems we did lose the chance to watch Sophie Okonedo, who some consider British most acclaimed actress...i probably never saw her play, i am not a big movie person. Sad.

 

[whitewave]

Dh likes to watch movies from the 70s and 80s and the thing that smacks you in the face is how normal looking the actresses are. Of course, some are naturally pretty, but many are just plain average looking, which is great and relatable. Now, actresses have to look hyper-female with fake boobs, nose, chin, lips, botoxed within an inch of life, fake nails,butts, hair extensions, etc.-- a near drag queen look.

It makes me sad.

 

[whitewave]

Back to Polanski. More accusers.

One says she was 9 when he attacked her. Where is Meryl Streep now?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5058727/Five-women-accuse-Roman-Polanski-sexual-assault.html

 

[redwood66]

It seems Louis CK can be added to the list. Pretty dang disgusting behavior.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/09/...nduct.html?smid=tw-nytimesarts&smtyp=cur&_r=0

 

[E B]

Alabama Senate candidate Roy Moore, too:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/inve...art-1pm:homepage/story&utm_term=.039749e89be0

Disgusting, all of them.

 

[E B]

A must-read thread. Warning: absolutely horrifying.

https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/928730814350811147

 

[E B]

I'm sure most of us have been wondering what the floor would be. Turns out, there isn't one.

 

[whitewave]

Alabama Senate candidate Roy Moore, too:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/woman-says-roy-moore-initiated-sexual-encounter-when-she-was-14-he-was-32/2017/11/09/1f495878-c293-11e7-afe9-4f60b5a6c4a0_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_moore-art-1pm:homepage/story&utm_term=.039749e89be0

Disgusting, all of them.

Oh, I hope that F-er goes down memorably

 

[whitewave]

A must-read thread. Warning: absolutely horrifying.

https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/928730814350811147

I hope there is more and he got them all to trap themselves. Only the woman's reply made sense: "have to digest this"...