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AGS vs Gia Ideal cuts and prices on hearts and arrows?

C

cj2011

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 25, 2011
Messages
19
In my price range I can only find AGS diamonds that are hearts and arrows- but my partner wants to get a GIA diamond and feels like GIA is stricter in analysis and AGS might not be the color we want which is G or higher, would I AGS hearts and arrows diamond be better than a GIA none hearts and arrows


basically we are looking for
ideal cut- I would like to get a hearts and arrows but GIA diamonds that have hearts and arrows are like $500-600 out of my range
.58-.65cts
G and above
SI1 or SI2 and above- really anything I clean


I'm worried about the price differences between hearts and arrows that are AGS certified vs GIA certified, I have noticed color differences between GIA diamonds (without comparing them side by side) and feel like I can actually see the differences between them we're worried that even though they aren't supposed to differ that much that an Ags G or H will be closer in color to a GIA I, J or K
 
This is because most vendors use AGS for H&A because they feel that AGS is stricter in terms of cut and a better representation for a H&A. GIA grade cuts by proportions average from 8 measurements while AGS does a full light performance modeling of the stone's proportion for their Platinum/Diamond Quality Document report.

There is no such grade as GIA Ideal, max grade issued by GIA is Ex.

AGS ideal H&A no necessary better than GIA Ex. Some GIA could be just as good, just not marketed as a H&A.

Color difference, if you are not looking at the side by side, I highly doubt you can tell the color difference for the stone size you are looking at. More likely what you think is the color difference is due to the lighting and environment of the different stores.
 
cj2011 said:
I'm worried about the price differences between hearts and arrows that are AGS certified vs GIA certified, I have noticed color differences between GIA diamonds (without comparing them side by side) and feel like I can actually see the differences between them we're worried that even though they aren't supposed to differ that much that an Ags G or H will be closer in color to a GIA I, J or K
Click to expand...

Note that neither GIA or AGSL grades cut-precision, aka H&A: Nothing you see on the report has anything to do with whether the diamond shows H&A patterns, or how crisp/precise they are. So if someone is selling the diamond as a "H&A" stone, with an associated premium, it's prudent to determine who is claiming the diamond has H&A cut-precision (because it's not GIA or AGSL) and what criteria is being used to make that judgment. Standards vary significantly.
 
cj2011|1295943735|2832356 said:
In my price range I can only find AGS diamonds that are hearts and arrows- but my partner wants to get a GIA diamond and feels like GIA is stricter in analysis and AGS might not be the color we want which is G or higher, would I AGS hearts and arrows diamond be better than a GIA none hearts and arrows


basically we are looking for
ideal cut- I would like to get a hearts and arrows but GIA diamonds that have hearts and arrows are like $500-600 out of my range
.58-.65cts
G and above
SI1 or SI2 and above- really anything I clean


I'm worried about the price differences between hearts and arrows that are AGS certified vs GIA certified, I have noticed color differences between GIA diamonds (without comparing them side by side) and feel like I can actually see the differences between them we're worried that even though they aren't supposed to differ that much that an Ags G or H will be closer in color to a GIA I, J or K
Click to expand...

AGS should be on par with GIA in terms of color grading.

also, as far as is H&A better than non H&A...it depends on what you are calling non H&A. This post and this article may be of use to you!

thread about H&A vs non H&A
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/h-a-vs-non-h-a-is-there-a-visual-difference.152720/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/h-a-vs-non-h-a-is-there-a-visual-difference.152720/[/URL]

article about differences within GIA Ex grade
https://www.pricescope.com/journal/laboratory_cut_grades_what_report_doesn%E2%80%99t_show
 
Welcome CJ! 8) I really can't add much to the experts that have already commented but being a relative "newbie" myself, I remember the day when I thought GIA was the "gold standard" and everything else was sub-par. If I am reading your post correctly, it sounds like one of your big concerns is AGS color grade being inferior to GIA, and per your example off by 2-3 grades. From all that I have read and all that I have seen, that is likely not the case. AGS is a very reputable grading laboratory and in standards of cut, most would say superior having more criteria to deem a stone "ideal". Their newer documents (platinum light performance document) even breaks down the cut to look at the light performance, symmetry, and polish. I will leave the hearts and arrows and GIA excellent cut discussion to the great links already posted, but in terms of color, GIA and AGS should be quite comparable and in terms of reputation, I think quite comparable also. I used to be fixated on GIA but the more I read, the more comfortable I have become and I recently bought an AGS0 Ideal Cut, G, and it is fabulous. I have many pictures posted in SMTB forum to show you how white is shows up if you are interested. In the end, you should continue to do what it sounds like you have been doing and look at stones and see what your comfort level is as far as what you want, but I don't think you should fear an AGS G or H being a GIA I,J, or K or vice versa. I just wanted to share with you, good luck in your shopping :)
 
There definitely are unreliable labs out there, but AGS isn't one of them. I have a GIA graded hearts and arrows stone, and I believe it was comparable to similar AGS H&A stones at the time. What is your budget?

In addition, most people will not be able to look at a G and H H&A diamonds and tell them apart, so you might want to consider H color.
 
Hi all,
Thanks so much for the replies. All of this has been very helpful. so on a side note i did some more research and agree w many of the posts. The comparisons i was making was at the same store so the lighting wasn't different. However, after looking up store reviews I question the store more than the labs. I believe that perhaps the sales woman was incorrect about what she was showing me or possibly confused the rings with others in the case. To be honest I'm not really sure what happened. It might have been a mistake or it might not have. I looked at what was supposed to be AGS diamonds all in white gold settings. I saw a significant difference in color between what I was told was a G, H, and I. All of which are supposed to be near "colorless" or at the very least should not appear too yellow. Each got more and more noticeably yellow. Which was expected. Not very yellow, but just slightly yellower. The biggest difference of which was between the H and I. There was also a difference in clarity. I saw a G VS2 and H VS2 and then an I SI1. The first 2 (G and H) were very similar, but the G looked slightly nicer. Both looked pretty colorless w maybe a slight yellowish color. However when I tried on the I SI1 it looked terrible. It was not even close to near colorless. I didn't even need to put the rings side by side to see it. Which was surprising bc most people say that you shouldn't be able to just see the difference. The SI1 looked much more cloudy as well. Not terribly bad but VERY Noticeably different. Another thing that was strange is that in a the next case there were diamond earring studs. I asked to see a pair to compare the diamonds. They had offered to take the stone from earrings/ or a similar stone to what was in the earrings and put it in a ring. I looked at the case and chose a pair that looked fairly nice. As I was looking at the diamond she told me that the stone was a GIA diamond and was D or E color. I cant remember which. However AGAIN the stone was noticeably yellow. I'm not sure if it was the fact that the setting was yellow gold or what but it was not colorless. That was when I thanked the sales rep for her help and decided to leave. I don't believe that it was any sort or issue with the lighting that was making the stone appear yellow. The G and H look much less colorless than the D/E, and furthermore it doesn't make much sense to put such a colorless diamond in a yellow setting. So now of course I would never go back there, but now I have more questions.

So I guess my second question is whether the difference I saw could be from clarity. Clearly there is something fishy going on at the store, and I wouldn't dare shop there but now I'm kind of wondering if maybe I should be looking for something a little different.
Now after doing more research I believe that I might be interested in something like an H with a VS2 or VS1. I have found AGS stones in H VVS2 in our original price range, but now I'm wondering if it's really necessary to spend so much. How much of a noticeable difference do you think I would see between an H VS2 and an H VVS2? Probably a lot right. I'm still trying to learn about how clarity plays into the whole quality of the diamond. I know there are other important factors such as cut, polish, symmetry, depth and table. I guess my idea is to get a smaller higher quality diamond that will shine more and in my mind will probably look maybe slightly larger than a larger lower quality diamond. I plan on getting a split shank solitaire and eventually pairing it with surrounding diamond bands. I am going to post another threat so any one who's interested or loves split shank rings should check it out. Thanks again!
 
Hi cj,
Have you seen the good old gold color videos? This video may help some.
http://www.vimeo.com/3288695

I would think you should be able to go down to an H (GIA or AGS graded).
Did you give your budget for the stone? We may be able to help you find a stone if we have your budget.

tyty
 
Hello again CJ. I love the rope braided shank, very unique and very nice. Again I will show my brief story and opinion in reference to your clarity question. Just like color, in the end clarity is personal preference. Most would agree that the most important part of clarity is eye clean and no quality threatening inclusions (sig feather reaching the surface, etc). A VS2 (from a reputable lab) is usually going to be eye clean and should lack any quality/stone threatening inclusions. Obviously it would be nice to see the stone yourself but if you work with a reputable vendor, you can ask them about the inclusions (as well as your appraiser). Most would say VS2 would be a good money saving way to go and still not sacrifice clarity or performance. Large inclusions can in fact act color sometimes. I had an old IGI stone (don't ask), D/SI3 and it actually said on the cert "inclusions may affect the D grading of this diamond.

Now back to the personal preference. I just bought a 1.31 G VVS2. I would have EASILY got a 1.5 H VS1 for similar price but my PREFERENCE was slightly better on the certificate and smaller, although I still wonder if I should have just went bigger as the stones overall will appear very similar (at least ones I have seen), especially when you get an ideal cut stone (that is the biggest factor to me). So it is all personal preference, I would have been fine with a VS1 or even VS2 but the only comment/input my fiancee told me when I was designing was "VVS something would be great". hahahaha I dont even know if she knew exactly what that means (not the type A like me) but she knew it was good. I think you couldn't go wrong with an ideal G-H/VS1-VS2 but obviously it is all personal preference.

Lastly, I have had shady experiences with some jewelers, I think most have. I never forget one that told me "EGL is the same thing as GIA, anything that thinks differently doesn't know what they are talking about" in reference to trying to charge me a GIA price for an EGL graded stone. So I say if something doesn't feel right with that jeweler, go look elsewhere. Good luck :)
 
you would not see any difference with VVS2 and VS2 without a loupe. Also, I think sometimes the lighting in jewelry stores can cause diamonds to look more 'tinted' than they actually are. If you are color sensitive then stick to F or G color though!
 
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