Advice- Stone exchange

[Md123456789]

Here is the link to the report:

https://myapps.gia.edu/ReportCheckPortal/getReportData.do?&reportno=2126732086&weight=2.03

 

[Lula]

It's definitely an improvement over your current diamond. And it is quite a bit larger in diameter. As for this stone's performance and appearance -- GIA rounds the numbers on the grading report, so it's just a guess on how the numbers will work together on this stone. It's on the edge, cut-wise -- the lower girdles (75%) may be a bit too short; the pavilion may be a bit too deep for that crown angle, and the table is on the large side. Because you will be able to see this diamond in person, you will be able to compare it to other stones in the store and your current stone, right? So you'll be able to see if its more or less sparkly than your current stone, dead in the middle or around the edges. I get the impression you are more interested in maximizing the diamond's diameter, which is certainly a common request around here. This stone will look substantially larger than your current stone, but you'll be compromising a bit on cut quality (that's a guess on my part, not having seen the stone, and just going by the numbers) and certainly you'll be taking a risk, with an SI2, that this stone will not be eye clean face-up, and probably it will not be eye-clean from the sides. Those are reasonable trade-offs for many people; but others would not be okay with an SI2 with visible inclusions. It really comes down to personal preference on size, color, and clarity.

 

[Md123456789]

Hi Lula! Thank you so much for your response. I am most interested in maximizing cut and size. I also think you are right, anything with an excellent cut grade is going to be an improvement for me so it is all relative from that standpoint. I will be able to view this in person along side my current diamond and hopefully others. I am taking a risk with clarity- absolutely- and will have to see how it looks in person in terms of inclusions.

At this point, I am just shopping stones but the jeweler happened to have easy access to this one in particular to hold it. As for the inclusions, I have read that twinning wisps cans be a favorable inclusion so I was attracted to this stone for that reason as well as the medium blue fluorescence. If I am going down to J, fluorescence is my preference.

 

[Md123456789]

P.s. can you explain lower girdle facets and their importance in performance?

 

[mrssalvo]

Md123456789, I glad you get view it in person. Some folks prefer a higher clarity stone which is fine, but I think if you can find an eye clean SI2 (and they are out there) it can provide a great value and a way to stretch your budget. I personally love a good SI2 and have no worries about getting one.

 

[Mikla]

I hope this diamond works out for you, but in any event, stick to your guns. It may cost a little more to fix this problem because the purchase was made from this vendor, but at the end of the day, just get the diamond that you want and lesson learned. Apparently an exchange alone is not going to do it, or are you saying that this new stone is the same price? Even if it costs you some money, it's better to wrap this up quickly so you can enjoy showing off your new ring and celebrating your engagement.

Best wishes,
Mikla

 

[Lula]

P.s. can you explain lower girdle facets and their importance in performance?

Here's an article written by Good Old Gold that explains the "minor" facets, i.e., the star facets and the lower girdle facets.
http://www.goodoldgold.com/Articles/MinorFacets/

Lower girdle facets determine the thinness or thickness of the arrows. If they are too long, the stone may lack contrast and look flat. If they are too short, the stone may have too much contrast and look dark. If they are not cut correctly, they may cause the diamond to leak light in the center, causing the stone to be dull, dark, and lack sparkle in the center. There's a lot more technical stuff involved, but that's the quick and dirty explanation. GIA rounds the numbers on its grading reports, and this stone is on the edge, so the only way to assess how well the stone's angles work together is to view the stone in person, in a wide variety of lighting conditions, and by comparing it to other diamonds.

 

[Md123456789]

Hi all- how does independent appraisal work? I would like to hire my local jeweler to act as my independent appraiser on the exchange (appraisal is one of the services he regularly offers) but am not sure what that would entail and how it would work in this unusual case.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

No problem with a good SI2, but you are into danger territory with a 41.4 pavilion angle. Please run any stone you are considering through the HCA before sending them to the jeweler. You can do better than that stone. If a stone scores between 1 and 2 on the HCA, you should be safe, but if it scores below 1 or between 2 and 3, then post the numbers here for some input.

An independent appraisal is done by someone who does NOT sell diamonds. You can't really get a 100% unbiased opinion any other way. There are independent appraisers in NYC and I am sure a couple can be recommended for you.

 

[Md123456789]

Thanks for chiming in, Diamondseeker! Can you explain the danger with this pavilion angle? I am learning a lot but don't understand how all of the angles effect performance.

Basically, I am trying to find something with an excellent cut and in the size that I want for a little less than what we paid. ($13.5k). J si2s seem to be my best bet but i am finding limited pickings other than this stone with flourescence which I would really want.

Reason being- this jeweler's pricing isn't great and I want to shoot as close to an even exchange as possible. I doubt if I find a perfect stone listed at $13.5 k that he will give it to me for $13.5k. He has stated he cannot give me 'Internet pricing' but will 'come close.'

 

[Lula]

Thanks for chiming in, Diamondseeker! Can you explain the danger with this pavilion angle? I am learning a lot but don't understand how all of the angles effect performance.

Basically, I am trying to find something with an excellent cut and in the size that I want for a little less than what we paid. ($13.5k). J si2s seem to be my best bet but i am finding limited pickings other than this stone with flourescence which I would really want.

Reason being- this jeweler's pricing isn't great and I want to shoot as close to an even exchange as possible. I doubt if I find a perfect stone listed at $13.5 k that he will give it to me for $13.5k. He has stated he cannot give me 'Internet pricing' but will 'come close.'

This stone is worth considering. It is a GIA excellent cut, in the size you want, and with medium blue fluorescence. 2-plus carat diamonds in your target price range are not all that common, as you've found. You may need to compromise a bit on clarity and color, which it soudns like you're willing to do. The angles of this stone are not in the PS "preferred range," and they are definitely on the edge of the GIA excellent range, but I'd caution you about relying too much on the numbers in this case. Using the numbers on the lab report and the HCA to help guide your search is wise if you are buying online without the ability to see the stone in person before you buy. But you have the advantage of seeing the diamond in person and sending it to an independent appraiser. The numbers on the report indicate that you should proceed with caution, because, as DS has noted, the pavilion angle is a bit steep, especially combined with that crown angle. But, remember, GIA rounds the numbers, so we have no way of knowing what the actual numbers of that stone are, and how well the combination works together. The star facets and lower girdle facets will have an effect on the diamond's appearance as well. Please don't get hung up on the numbers. And I say this as a complete cut-nut who is very picky about diamond cut. But, in your case, given your situation with this jeweler and needing to stick with this jeweler for a trade-in, and considering your desire to maximize face-up size, I'd hate to see you lose out on this diamond because of the numbers on the report. At least see it in person first. The report has been linked to on this thread; others could snatch the stone out from under you, if this stone is available on a "virtual" list and not in-house.

 

[Md123456789]

Lula- thank you for your post! It made me feel a lot better. I was really hesitant to link to the report but the stone was put on hold for me on Friday. Hopefully that actually means something...

As for independent appraisal- How does that work and what are the costs? Do you know of any PS appraisers in NYC? I do trust my jeweler who did my setting quite a bit and my fiancé is really comfortable with him which means a lot considering this mess.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I agree with Lula that we cannot know the exact measurements of the stone unless you use an appraiser who will do a Sarin or helium scan. I am going to link you a page that may be TMI, but it does say that they can see that diamonds with a crown angle of 35 begin to show leakage at 41.4 pav. angle.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/content.php?c=159

So, this could be a diamond worth buying or it might not, but you'll need an appraiser who can tell you if there is leakage or not if you are after a well cut diamond.

 

[Md123456789]

That article is definitely a lot of information but also really helpful. I am going to view two diamonds today around 12pm- the one that I showed you as well as another that rates 2.4 HCA. It has a smaller diameter (7.8x7., is a J SI2, but only has faint flourescence. I will see how it goes!

 

[Md123456789]

Hi All-

I finally saw some stones! I looked at the 1.9 mentioned as well as the 2.03 I linked to. The 1.9 had two eye visible inclusions so I have ruled it out. The 2.03 was eye clean and I really really liked it. I looked at it in three lighting enviroments- under lights, by a window, and under a table. I preferred the performance to my stone in all settings. I also don't think I am very color sensitive at all because it faced up nice and white to me. I could only noticed the color when flipped over and it really didn't bother me.

There is one more dealer I can go see but to be honest, I really like this stone and I sourced it so I know the market value. Basically, I am driving the boat in terms of pricing with this stone. I also don't want to confuse my mind with viewing a ton of stones and then have my heart broken if I can't afford something.

I am attaching pics. My stone is always on the right in all of these pics.

Specs
2.03 carats
J SI2
Cut: Excellent
Polish: Very good
Symmetry: Excellent
Table: 59%
Depth: 61.8%
Crown Angle: 35%
Pavilion Angle: 41.4%
Culet: None
Flourescence: Medium Blue

 

[Md123456789]

Two more pics..

 

[Md123456789]

The jeweler is giving me an even exchange on this stone which is the best I could possibly hope for. I only have to pay for shipping. No responses yet but I can't stop looking at it

 

[Laila619]

It looks pretty and significantly improved from your current stone! Unfortunately, you can see light leakage in your current stone. You see how when it's against the white paper you can see the white background through the stone? That's light leakage. The stone on the left is a great size on you too! Talk about finger coverage.

 

[Lula]

It looks pretty and significantly improved from your current stone! Unfortunately, you can see light leakage in your current stone. You see how when it's against the white paper you can see the white background through the stone? That's light leakage. The stone on the left is a great size on you too! Talk about finger coverage.

I agree with Laila. It's a great improvement over your other stone. And I can see the light leakage in your original stone, too. It's especially noticeable in the first photo of the two stones side-by-side. The new stone appears to have much better "contrast" (combination of light/dark areas), which makes for a more attractive and lively diamond. Has the jeweler who made your setting seen this stone yet?

 

[Md123456789]

He saw the cert and the pictures and thought it looked great. Considering that the jeweler is willing to do this stone at an even exchange, he advised me to buy it.

He is going to have to swap out the head on my current setting in order to accomodate the new sized stone. He will do this at the same time as the repairs are done. This will cost us some money. We may end up going through insurance depending on the costs versus the deductible. We are just worried about being dropped and don't want to call in the insurance on a smaller amount of money

Of course, as an ever enterprising PSer, I will use the head change as an opportunity to make some revisions

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I am not sure about judging light leakage from a picture where the stone is clearly tilted, but certainly the new stone looks good! And wow, what a size increase! So glad you were able to find a stone that you love! Please come back and post the finished ring!

 

[Md123456789]

Thank you, Laila, Lula, and Diamondseeker!! I am so glad you think it looks good. I should be able to pick it up tomorrow, then it will go to my current jeweler.

It definitely looks quite big in the hand pic but I think it's a little skewed looking due to the height of the 'stunt' ring. It's hard to picture what it will look like when set.

Maybe the stone isn't perfect but I think it's damn good and the best I was going to come by for our budget. Thanks for everyone's help!!!!!!! This has been an invaluable resource. I never would have even considered an SI2 before PS.

Hoping everything works out tomorrow and it's officially mine! And I am so excited to redo the basket hopefully with some changes I have in mind

 

[Lula]

Thank you, Laila, Lula, and Diamondseeker!! I am so glad you think it looks good. I should be able to pick it up tomorrow, then it will go to my current jeweler.

It definitely looks quite big in the hand pic but I think it's a little skewed looking due to the height of the 'stunt' ring. It's hard to picture what it will look like when set.

Maybe the stone isn't perfect but I think it's damn good and the best I was going to come by for our budget. Thanks for everyone's help!!!!!!! This has been an invaluable resource. I never would have even considered an SI2 before PS.

Hoping everything works out tomorrow and it's officially mine! And I am so excited to redo the basket hopefully with some changes I have in mind

You are welcome Md! The part of your post I underlined is really all that matters. That, and that you were able to make the best of a touchy situation with the jeweler your fiance chose to work with. I'm impressed by the way you handled this; these stories don't always end so well! Please post photos of the finished ring.

 

[ame]

I am THRILLED to see you are getting a good resolution!

 

[onedrop]

I am so happy that it looks like you are going to come to a good resolution! Those new stones are SO much better than what was offered earlier. Can't wait to see your posts with the finished product. Kudos to you for being persistent!

 

[mrssalvo]

I am truly happy for you too! Please come back with pictures!!

 

[Md123456789]

The stone is officially mine! I overnighted my old one back and picked up the new one this afternoon. Took it straight to my current jeweler for the setting. Now I wait to hear about the costs of the repairs plus the new basket... eek.

Also, I made some design revisions to the basket and requested to have it sized a bit. I think the benchworker wants to kill me, for sure.

now the waiting is going to kill me!!

 

[Christina...]

Yah! I'm so happy that this is resolved and that you were able to find a stone that you clearly love! And look at the size of that beauty! So happy for you!!

 

[Dreamer_D]

A great ending! Your new stone is much better than the old, you can see the poor cut on the other photo, tilt angles are great for showing that type of leakage (fish eye is another term for it). Plus, you used your own actual eyes Good job.

 

[atp223]

i love the new one! i'm so glad you were able to resolve this! you must come back and post pics of the new ring !!