Advice- Stone exchange

[Md123456789]

So here's the scoop. My fiance spoke to the jeweler who said that there is "nothing in our price range" that meets my requirements. Basically, he is overpriced. He asked us to send him some diamonds we have found that are in these specs. He also tried to convince my fiance that i was happy with the stone until I saw the numbers. This is completely false. I always thought it looked small but just didn't understand WHY until I saw the numbers.

What to do now??

 

[Dancing Fire]

So here's the scoop. My fiance spoke to the jeweler who said that there is "nothing in our price range" that meets my requirements. Basically, he is overpriced. He asked us to send him some diamonds we have found that are in these specs. He also tried to convince my fiance that i was happy with the stone until I saw the numbers. This is completely false. I always thought it looked small but just didn't understand WHY until I saw the numbers.

What to do now??

get a refund and buy online.

 

[Md123456789]

Now he told us to send links after my fiance said we have seen several stones in that price point and that he can 'get anything.' I sent him some of the ones that everyone helped evaluate as well as some others that are more borderline. Stay tune! And thanks everyone!

 

[mrssalvo]

I'm really hope he will find you a suitable replacement. If not, I'd try for a refund

 

[Md123456789]

Just wanted to check in an update my thread.. sadly, with no real update. I sent the jeweler a list of a handful of stones (one of which was on his site) that I was interested in early last week after his discouraging call to my fiance. We haven't heard back on any feedback. He is out of the office this week (though he told us he would still be available) so I am trying to give him the benefit of the doubt. Sadly, I've seen two of these stones get sold over the last two weeks so I am going to have to search again

 

[Md123456789]

I don't think anyone is following my thread anymore but it's helpful for me to keep all of this in one place. Spoke to the Jeweler today and he offered us the option of two stones: 1.7 j vs2 and 1.7 I si1 for over $2000 more than we paid.

This was all of the info he sent me so i decided to play to game and call him and ask for cert numbers. He refused to show me the certain or give me the very numbers because he thinks I just want to comparison shop. Either way, I am not spending any where near that kind of money for what is technically a downgrade!

We spoke later on in the day and I proposed returning the entire ring outright for a slight restocking fee. Not to my surprise, he has no interest in a used setting and would only accept the stone back, making this an unappealable option to me as I wouldn't get the full dollar back on the stone. (we have already spent a good sum resetting it because the setting he made was not what we asked for and not my taste).

The final thing we discussed and where we left it is that he is going to send my very to a recutter and see if he thinks that it is a good candidate for recutting. This way, he can take the stone back as a return and sell it for more when recut to ideal proportions. (which is ironic to me considering he insists the stone is wonderful as is and that we got a great deal).

Not to mention, he insulted me as a person saying that most girls are simply happen with anything they are given and that if they aren't, they simply learn to live with it. This was deeply insulting to me because of course I struggle with feeling ungrateful and awful about all of this. However, my fiancé is in agreement with me and feels betrayed by this jeweler so i just remind myself that this was a bad deal to begin with.

Oh, I also fell and completely smashed my setting this weekend and am devastated while I wait to hear about repairing it. I can't catch a break the jeweler who made the setting thinks we should wait to do all of the work on the setting at the same time if buying a new stone pans out...

Here is my smashed ring

 

[Md123456789]

If anyone has any thoughts or advice on these latest developments, I would really really appreciate it!!!

 

[GemFever]

I don't really have any advice, but I read through your thread and just want to say -- good luck! It sounds like it's been incredibly frustrating, but I'm sure you will see the happy end of this process soon. Don't let that ridiculous argument (girls should be happy with what they get or just bear with whatever) get to you. Have a clear goal in your mind about what you want -- both in terms of the stone and the setting -- and work for that goal. In the end, the troubles will be behind you, and you will have a beautiful stone that you love Good luck!

 

[onedrop]

What is the jeweler offering regarding the return of the stone? If a full price refund or something close to that is an option, I'd probably return the stone, take the hit with the setting and move on. Plus you can't return the setting anyway, as it is now damaged. There is too much going back and forth with no real satisfactory conclusion to make it worthwhile to keep dealing with this jeweler. Maybe he can find a stone to your satisfaction, maybe not. But at this point, I wouldn't trust him to deal with him any further.

I really sympathize with you, though. You want resolution and it's taking forever to get it!

 

[Md123456789]

He really isn't offering anything besides the two stones I mentioned at a cost of $9,111 per carat! I know that is NOT market value. He asked me what I thought was fair in terms of a return and I didn't really know what to say since of course I want to maximize my return. The current setting isn't the setting that I got with the ring but he doesn't know that I've changed it.

He seems to want to see what he thinks he can get for the stone by recutting it before making any concrete offers. I agree, I have no trust in him at this point and no faith he is going to come up with any kind of offer that appeals to me. I think I will likely have to end up keeping what I have and if I decide to upgrade down the road, recutting the stone to make it sellable.

In the meantime, I await finding out the cost of repairs on my mangled setting..

 

[mrssalvo]

Was your ring insured? I'd try to get a refund for the stone. Please do not try to have it recut, you are opening up another can of worms and it's not going to help IMO. If you ring is insured, insurance will cover for a new setting so it doesn't matter if the jeweler refunds that or not. Don't tell him that though. Just tell him you have thought about it and you will eat the cost of the setting but want a full refund on the stone. And, if it wasn't insured, there isn't anything you can do about it and will have to eat the cost of it anyway, unfortunately. But, I would do everything possible to at the very least get as much as you can back from that stone. You may take a little loss but we can help you find a suitable replacement and possibly a deal that will make up the difference!!

 

[Md123456789]

My ring is insured, thankfully, so worst case scenario we can put in a claim for the setting. and i LOVE my setting.

I agree that I think this is just getting complicated and I want to resolved it as soon as possible. I just sent him the following email:

"Hi Mr. Saettele,

Thank you for taking the time to speak with me yesterday. I understand this is a delicate issue on both sides of the fence and understand your frustration.

I have thought about this some more and think the easiest thing for both sides would be to not complicate this further by coming up with a solution that involves recutting or exchange. We have been in discussions about this for going on a month and we would like to put this matter to rest. Like you said, we are doing this long distance and I fear further issues down the road.

That said, we would like to offer to eat the cost of the setting entirely and return the stone for a refund. I understand that the setting is used but regardless, this is still a significant financial sacrifice on our end in order to reach an amicable resolution.

Thanks again for your time"

 

[Christina...]

It sounds like you've already been able to determine that his prices are approximately 25% higher than some online vendors. How about finding a stone online that you like and then basing the refund amount on that price? Essentially you would be trading one diamond for another, and he pockets about 25% and can resell the diamond.

That looks like one heck of a fall!! Hope your ok!!

edit: your email sounds great! good luck!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Obviously if he will not even give you the diameter, table, depth, crown and pavilion angles on these diamonds, you cannot begin to know whether these two stones will be any good or not.

Honestly, I would probably try to return the stone and start over. You'll have to take a loss, but there is no way I'd be stuck with a diamond I didn't like. You'd probably lose a lot more trying to sell the diamond yourself. Wash your hands and a hard lesson will be learned. Never, ever buy jewelry with no return policy. I am saying this for those who are lurking and haven't bought yet.

I would play hard ball with him, though. I'd try to get a fair deal with him getting something but not too much. To me, 10% of the stone price would be fair. I'd mention that you are a member of a diamond forum and have the choice of revealing a good or bad outcome to this situation.

Under no circumstances would I let him recut the stone as long as you own it. For one thing, if you wanted to do that we'd tell you who to send it to. But I'd return it and start over.

Incidentally, how wide of a shank was the ring that was damaged? It looks like it might have been too thin to bend that drastically.

 

[mrssalvo]

Your email sounds good. Please let us know what he says! Hoping for the best for you...

 

[Md123456789]

He is definitely being shady on the details because he knows that I will find comparisons and question his prices.

I think you're right about the return and I agree that maybe a loss of 10% wouldn't be the worst thing in the long run though my fiance may disagree. However, we have been budgeting about that much for my wedding band so maybe we can just go with something much simpler for now and use that towards the new stone. Provided, the jeweler agrees to this.

I don't think he was suggesting recutting it while I own it (at least not in this latest conversation). I think he is just looking into that for himself to make sure he will get value for the return. However, in him saying that he needs to recut it to make it sellable, he is just justifying my feelings about the stone in the first place!

I have mentioned Pricescope previously and it didn't even seem to blink on his radar so I am not sure how much he cares. I searched his store on here and have only found it mentioned once by someone who was shopping in his area. (shockingly, the buyer didn't go with him because of his pricing!)

The shank of my setting is somewhere between 1.7-1.8, depending on who is measuring. I know it is delicate and that is what I wanted. I have certainly learned a lesson though and will be super careful when I get it back.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

The real experts (such as ring makers like Victor Canera, etc.) recommend a minimum of 1.8mm for a platinum pave shank, just so you know. The thin ones do look pretty, but they are sooo fragile and insurance won't repeatedly pay for the ring to be remade. They'll either drop the person or they will increase rates. We've just seen this happen before with the very thin shanks.

 

[Md123456789]

I am pretty sure it is 1.8mm+ because everyone who has measured it (including Mark at ERD) has come up with 1.8 or greater. I wanted 1.7 and the designer urged me against it but then said they would make it anyway. I think they knew of these issues and knew I wouldn't notice so made it 1.8 anyway

 

[onedrop]

Hopefully your e-mail will bring the resolution you want. Good for you to try and just end this transaction now, and start over!

BTW- Your setting is gorgeous!! So sorry it was damaged.

 

[Md123456789]

Hopefully your e-mail will bring the resolution you want. Good for you to try and just end this transaction now, and start over!

BTW- Your setting is gorgeous!! So sorry it was damaged.

Thank you so much! I absolutely love it. I can't speak highly enough of the jeweler who helped me design it and who created it. I know I bent it but I think any ring of 1.7-1.8 mm has the potential to bend if fallen on.

Supposed to hear from the jeweler today.. Will update if/when I do!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Yes, your e-ring looks beautifully made! I am glad he was aware that too thin was not a good idea, but I would just talk to him about this again before you have the ring remade. I commented about this on your wedding band thread and am not sure you saw it, but you know you have to wear a plain spacer band between the e-ring and wedding band when you have a 3 sided pave ring, right? We just always try to warn people about this, also, so they don't come here to post about damage to their rings after it is too late!

 

[ame]

Damn, I cannot believe that they haven't resolved this well yet. I didn't see who you were working with til now with that email chain you shared with them...and yes they are grossly overpriced, I happen to be friends with one of his daughters, and priced a ring through them and it was almost double what any other authorized dealer of that brand was selling for. I felt like they were trying to take advantage of the fact that I know someone there, and "give me a deal". When I commented to the salesperson that I priced it at a few other places and they were all substantially less expensive, the reply was "they're selling you a knockoff then". No, no they're really not. They try to push the Hearts on Fire stones too so I am surprised that's not what your Fiance ended up with.

Is you ring insured? I would file an insurance claim on the ring itself for the setting to be remade, and get a refund on the stone, and cut your losses and go elsewhere. Yes you will lose money, but to be dne with this, worth it. I do feel that at this point they're not as interested in working with you.

You could then either try another local shop, like Summa in Kirkwood who sells AGS/Infinity stones, or try online. I haven't had a lot of luck with local jewelers, honestly. Haven't had much luck with jewelry, period, frankly.

As an aside, who made your setting? Pave makes me think Mavrik or Rafael? Or was it outside of STL?

 

[Md123456789]

Damn, I cannot believe that they haven't resolved this well yet. I didn't see who you were working with til now with that email chain you shared with them...and yes they are grossly overpriced, I happen to be friends with one of his daughters, and priced a ring through them and it was almost double what any other authorized dealer of that brand was selling for. I felt like they were trying to take advantage of the fact that I know someone there, and "give me a deal". When I commented to the salesperson that I priced it at a few other places and they were all substantially less expensive, the reply was "they're selling you a knockoff then". No, no they're really not. They try to push the Hearts on Fire stones too so I am surprised that's not what your Fiance ended up with.

Is you ring insured? I would file an insurance claim on the ring itself for the setting to be remade, and get a refund on the stone, and cut your losses and go elsewhere. Yes you will lose money, but to be dne with this, worth it. I do feel that at this point they're not as interested in working with you.

You could then either try another local shop, like Summa in Kirkwood who sells AGS/Infinity stones, or try online. I haven't had a lot of luck with local jewelers, honestly. Haven't had much luck with jewelry, period, frankly.

As an aside, who made your setting? Pave makes me think Mavrik or Rafael? Or was it outside of STL?

Ame- I am actually from NYC! My fiance and I went to college with one of the sons so I guess trusted working with his father. He truly believes he cut us some fabulous deal. Clearly, I have not had great luck with jewelry either so I feel your pain

My ring is insured. I found out today that the repairs will cost less than $200 so I am very relieved I won't have to use the insurance. My setting is not the original setting and was made by my jeweler in New York who I cannot speak highly enough about.

I am trying to push for an outright refund but not sure if they will agree to it. We have accepted that there will be another loss for restocking fees but I agree there is no interest in any other resolution on their behalf.

DiamondSeeker- I have started looking at bezel set rings in order to avoid the spacer issue. (also because of the money I anticipate us losing on the stone, we won't be buying the eternity ring from IDJ right now and I have my eye on some round bezel set stackers that kind of achieve the look i like) Will this suffice?

 

[Md123456789]

Spoke to the jeweler. He is refusing refund but is offering to move forward with an exchange. He is going to have me meet with his supplier in NYC to see stones in person. I have sent him a few and confirmed he has one that I am interested in. He is going to send me a list tomorrow of options they have in house.

This is my only option so I am cautiously optimistic especially since I can evaluate in person...

 

[susimoo]

MD

I am more of a lurker on Rocky Talky due to lack of expertise. I just wanted to stop by and say I really really feel for you. This is a terrible predicament to be in , especially over something so emotional.

I hope that you get a stone that you love and have this situation remedied ASAP!!!

Good luck and I will be following your story with my fingers crossed.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Spoke to the jeweler. He is refusing refund but is offering to move forward with an exchange. He is going to have me meet with his supplier in NYC to see stones in person. I have sent him a few and confirmed he has one that I am interested in. He is going to send me a list tomorrow of options they have in house.

This is my only option so I am cautiously optimistic especially since I can evaluate in person...

Very interesting indeed. Whatever you do, do not agree to a stone when you first go. Insist on a copy of the GIA report for any stones you are interested in and come back here before you commit. It is GREAT you can see them, but you are only probably going to see them in a limited lighting environment, and you surely don't want to make a mistake this time! We may be able to find the stones online depending on the info you are given. Good luck!!!

A bezel band sounds very pretty! Hopefully you can try one on with your ring once it is fixed. We have several people around here who have a large eternity to wear as an alternate to the wedding set or on the right hand, so that is always something you can get later!

 

[atp223]

Hey MD! This whole experience sounds awful - I feel bad for you and your fiancé. It's horrible that there are so many people out there who try to make an unwarranted windfall for purchases that are so emotionally significant, especially when it is the one situation I can think of where the intended wearer sometimes has no say in the purchase (eg in the case of surprises etc). Iand the "shut up and be grateful" comment made my blood boil for you. So he is allowed to basically rob uninformed people, but you are not allowed to protest...wow. hope the situation is resolved to your satisfaction soon! If it makes you feel any better, I *was* involved in our e-ring purchase and there was still a fair amount of stress/drama in the whole process, with respect to budget, size, quality, etc. We ended up with something I was happy with, but my fiance was not super happy with me the whole time haha. It sounds like yours is being great, though. I don't think it's "ungrateful" at all to be upset that the person you love got ripped off by someone he trusted.

I was just wondering - how did you fall and bend your ring like that? I run a lot, and never wear my e-ring when I do, and people make fun of me - but I'm worried about falling and breaking my ring. I was curious if that had happened to you.

 

[Md123456789]

Hey MD! This whole experience sounds awful - I feel bad for you and your fiancé. It's horrible that there are so many people out there who try to make an unwarranted windfall for purchases that are so emotionally significant, especially when it is the one situation I can think of where the intended wearer sometimes has no say in the purchase (eg in the case of surprises etc). Iand the "shut up and be grateful" comment made my blood boil for you. So he is allowed to basically rob uninformed people, but you are not allowed to protest...wow. hope the situation is resolved to your satisfaction soon! If it makes you feel any better, I *was* involved in our e-ring purchase and there was still a fair amount of stress/drama in the whole process, with respect to budget, size, quality, etc. We ended up with something I was happy with, but my fiance was not super happy with me the whole time haha. It sounds like yours is being great, though. I don't think it's "ungrateful" at all to be upset that the person you love got ripped off by someone he trusted.

I was just wondering - how did you fall and bend your ring like that? I run a lot, and never wear my e-ring when I do, and people make fun of me - but I'm worried about falling and breaking my ring. I was curious if that had happened to you.

Thank you so much for the kind words! All of this has NOT gone without drama with my fiance but he has come around and is now fully supportive. I think there was resentment on his part of course and resentment on my part that I felt he didn't listen to me and made some really stupid decisions with a big purchase. For one, why on earth would you buy a ring out of St. Louis when you live in the diamond capital of the world? I think it finally clicked to him one day when I made the point that when purchasing his car, he could tell me every single detail and spec of that car but yet he bought a diamond without even knowing one of the 4 c's, much less all of the other info!

I actually tripped in my apartment and my hand shot BEHIND me and smacked my dining table, hard. I also run and workout a lot and recently stopped wearing my ring to do so even though I am rarely doing anything besides cardio. A friend at work's wife had her stone come loose from wearing it at the gym. So I think you are smart to not wear it when running! Why risk it?

 

[Md123456789]

Apt223- p.s. your stone is EXACTLY what I am looking for. Except probably will have to go down to a J (with flourescence, i hope)for budget reasons..

 

[Md123456789]

The jeweler put a stone on hold for me. I mistakenly ran the HCA score (5.2, eek) AFTER sending it to him so it's very likely a dud but I at least feel like it's a sign that things are moving forward.

Specs
2.03 carats
J SI2
Cut: Excellent
Polish: Very good
Symmetry: Excellent
Table: 59%
Depth: 61.8%
Crown Angle: 35%
Pavilion Angle: 41.4%
Culet: None
Flourescence: Medium Blue
Inclusions: Twinning wisps are the grade making inclusions and there is a crystal in the center of the table
Comments: Additional twinning wisps, pinpoints, and surface graining not shown