Advice on price

[OoohShiny]

Just because someone's been on a forum for a decade, doesn't indicate their knowledge on everything and everyone in the diamond world, and it also doesn't mean I know less because I signed up a day ago.

lol

While this could technically indeed be the case (you could be a world-class diamond cutter with 50 years experience, who is also running a mutli-million-$-turnover international diamond selling company but has only just discovered the internet, for example) it is highly likely that a decade of experience will enable a greater understanding of the nuances that are sometimes involved in assessing diamonds, achieved through the sheer quantity of stones assessed and situations worked through, along with a concomitant 'gut feeling' when things don't seem quite 'right'.

Gypsy is a huge asset to this community and gives her time and experience freely to noobs and experienced hands alike, and I have little doubt that a search through the forum archives will reveal a great many members who have secured amazing stones with her assistance, and very probably no-one who has bought a dud while taking her advice.

Her style is direct, factual and to the point, and she is on the board a lot while also having a personal life - she likely doesn't have the time (or probably inclination ) to tread softly-softly in case others don't like her style, and for me, I like that incisive style because it cuts down on reading time required to get to the key information of interest.

As Kenny says, though, people vary, so it is perfectly understandable if her style is not for you, but please do not take her directness as a personal attack on you; it is just her modus operandi and like all of us here, we want to see you get a great stone for a good price. That is why several people have raised concerns over the claims the jeweller is making about the quality he can get for the price he is quoting - if something seems to cheap to be true, it usually is. As already mentioned, there are very, very few diamond 'bargains' because there are too many people in the chain to allow things to slip through to the customer without someone pricing them accurately somewhere along the way, so the concern expressed by individuals is genuine.


I think we are all interested to see what happens and are keen to see high quality macro pictures with associated IdealScope and ASETscope images, and the reference number of the diamond's GIA or AGS report, so we look forward to the next steps in your quest.

Good luck with your search and please do post up when you have more information.

 

[MollyMalone]

breanne, I assumed the guy with whom you've been in contact is not someone you found through the likes of Craigslist & you weren't planning to meet him in a parking lot after dark. But none of us has ESP; we have to rely on what a poster presents, as they type it, and "hearing" that this person pays nothing for his business space did set my antennae wriggling.

I hope you'll consider that threads here are not private ones, have a far wider audience than the original poster and those who post in response. Because I was a NYC prosecutor for many years, I think I've seen it all re flim-flams, etc. & my father-in-law was a diamond dealer (to the trade only) here in NYC, whose blood would boil when he heard of horror stories like this one:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/need-advice-diamond-dealer-wont-honor-return-policy.209574/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/need-advice-diamond-dealer-wont-honor-return-policy.209574/[/URL]
So I am protective of consumers, and my comments reflect that concern. I wish you hadn't taken umbrage, but I'm hopeful that one or more future readers will benefit from my wish to steer folks away from "bad eggs."

And because PS forum threads are a collective repository of knowledge and opinions, it's great that you and flyingpig have now shared illuminating info re this mode of in-person, diamond shopping in Canada, why it's an appealing alternative to, e.g., Blue Nile Canada.

I really hope that if you are as satisfied as you expect to be, you will provide the vendor's name & contact information. Good vendors deserve recognition, and your fellow Canadians would be grateful to learn of one!

 

[flyingpig]

In Canada, at least in Vancouver, in addition to high-end brand name stores (Cartier/Tiffany), mall stores (Micheal Hill), premier stores (Maison Birk, Lugaro), and independent jewellers, we have small diamond “wholesalers” like luksus diamond and Vancouver diamond (http://vancouverdiamonds.ca/) who hold a very tiny office (less than 200sqf??) in downtown Vancouver. These are not the same as a random booth in NYC diamond district, although I have never beem there. They bring in a stone you want from the virtual inventory for inspection. It is actually nice; you don’t have to deal with any shipping back and forth. No deposit either. Breanne’s claim of 6.5k USD for 1.4c J SI1 or 9k~11k CAD for 1.4c J/I is completely reasonable, on par with what budget pricescope vendors offer. Loose diamonds are not subject to any import duty in Canada. Thus, unlike European vendors, Canadian vendors can offer competitive pricing. My assumption is that Breanne is dealing with a small, but, registered business like this, based on his statement that they hold an office, he pays HST, and it is not a cash transaction.
I am sure such business exists in the US as well, but overshadowed by big names like BN and JA, mall stores, and unethical practice of some diamond dealers who fool their customers by selling EGL/uncertified diamonds. Because these small businesses don't have either strong online presence or physical showroom, not many are aware of their existence.

 

[breanne]

Listen, I'm not negating the fact that this forum, and the people on it have helped aid in better diamond purchasing, and deterred some as well, including scams. I however didn't post about needing guidance on my selected specs, nor did I express uncertainty with the person whom I'm doing business with. The tone of this thread almost immediately was changed to what I should and shouldn't be looking at, in a way that I found a bit flippant, and I think if you're objective, you could see it. It's not a matter of someone's blunt honesty, it's really about imposing thought on something that wasn't asked.

I've gone well above the average person in researching, I'm definitely not a noob, I may be new to signing up to this forum, but I've read it for many years. Moreover, I've always had an interest in diamonds, so, although I'm just on the hunt for a diamond now, that's simply because I'm finally at a point where I can.

I appreciate flyingpigs thorough breakdown of some of the buying options we have here in Canada, in fact, that is exactly the route I'm going. I know many feel buying online is the end all be all in terms of 'deals' when it comes to diamonds, but there are certainly other options available. My expectations of a stone are in alignment with the price provided, so it's not "too good to be true," just slightly better due to my research, and connection with the right person. It's not THAT big of a deal to raise concern.

That's really it, I signed up because I wanted to share the journey I'm on, I'm excited about it, I also have a life, but just because I don't spend years posting on a forum, doesn't mean I'm not as informed. I simply just wanted what others would budget, not a breakdown of my competence or preferences.

I'd like to know, for the sake of proving a point, for my specs, I'll relist them, how is 9-11k CAD too good to be true that this whole thread was redirected.

1.40-1.50
Round XXX/OOO
I-J
SI1-SI2

 

[drk14]

I'd like to know, for the sake of proving a point, for my specs, I'll relist them, how is 9-11k CAD too good to be true that this whole thread was redirected.

1.40-1.50
Round XXX/OOO
I-J
SI1-SI2

Initially, you indicated you were getting the above specs for $6500 USD ($8300 CAD), which is not impossible, but difficult to achieve in light of the fact that about 80% of candidate stones (i.e., stones meeting your specs) are more expensive than $6500 USD ($8300 CAD). Your new budget (9-11k CAD, or $7100-$8700 USD) is more realistic.

 

[breanne]

9-11k CAD is not a new budget, I pay 13% tax on the final number. If I would pay even 7k USD that's already 10k Canadian.

 

[flyingpig]

Again, i think your budget is reasonable to get a GIA xxx with AGS ideal proportions and HCA score of less than 2.0 with a decent IS image (minimal leakage). I found a few stones with some potential, for an example 58/40.6/35.5/62.3.

Finding a stone with super ideal proportions and super ideal light performance may be difficult.

 

[LLJsmom]

I think anyone reading can see, including yourself, that your response in particular has been aggressive. I didn't ask how the stone may appear, or may not appear to be, I asked a general opinion on price. You've called me out for having a red flag type deal, expressing that my stone may not be GIA OR AGS verified, went on to try to inform me of what certification not to go for.

Furthermore, you also commented on the specs, going for VS2 SI1 and H Color over my written preference. This is why we're still here, why you're still here, because you wanted to somehow direct my purchase in a way that suits you. You also tried to let me know that HCA is merely just a tool, and should not be used in place of GIAXXX etc. I've been nothing but open with my search, my expectations, and you've essentially written each and every time against my post. Take a look, if you can't honestly agree, please don't further comment.

This is a public forum. People are allowed to comment. You asked a question, and people gave their opinion, and it may or may not be something you like or agree with. Just shrug and take what you like and discard what you don't. You are the one constantly being argumentative, defensive and getting off topic, offending some people and generally not being constructive. If you have an answer to all the questions, there is no point in asking. You can say what you want, but telling a poster who has just tried to help you "please don't further comment" is one of the rudest things I have ever seen from someone seeking advice.

 

[drk14]

9-11k CAD is not a new budget, I pay 13% tax on the final number. If I would pay even 7k USD that's already 10k Canadian.

OK, thanks for clarifying. In that case, my original comment stands. Among diamonds that meet your specifications and are currently on the market, only 16% are priced at $6500 USD or below. Therefore, with your budget, approximately 84% of the available stock would have to be excluded from consideration. Furthermore, the 16% pool of diamonds that fall in your budget all have one or more factors that make them more difficult to sell than the 84% pool of diamonds priced higher than $6500. Some of these factors may represent issues that you personally don't consider to be negatives (or at least not deal-breakers), and the stones for which this happens to be true constitute the actual pool from which you will be purchasing. So, in reality, you will be able to seriously consider only perhaps 1%-10% of the available diamonds that satisfy your specifications.

In conclusion, at least as far as I'm concerned, it is entirely possible that you will be successful (and this is what I wish for you!). Nonetheless, I hope that the above assessment clarifies for you why some posters here have expressed various degrees of disbelief.

 

[JDDN]

Listen, I'm not negating the fact that this forum, and the people on it have helped aid in better diamond purchasing, and deterred some as well, including scams. I however didn't post about needing guidance on my selected specs, nor did I express uncertainty with the person whom I'm doing business with. The tone of this thread almost immediately was changed to what I should and shouldn't be looking at, in a way that I found a bit flippant, and I think if you're objective, you could see it. It's not a matter of someone's blunt honesty, it's really about imposing thought on something that wasn't asked.

I've gone well above the average person in researching, I'm definitely not a noob, I may be new to signing up to this forum, but I've read it for many years. Moreover, I've always had an interest in diamonds, so, although I'm just on the hunt for a diamond now, that's simply because I'm finally at a point where I can.

I appreciate flyingpigs thorough breakdown of some of the buying options we have here in Canada, in fact, that is exactly the route I'm going. I know many feel buying online is the end all be all in terms of 'deals' when it comes to diamonds, but there are certainly other options available. My expectations of a stone are in alignment with the price provided, so it's not "too good to be true," just slightly better due to my research, and connection with the right person. It's not THAT big of a deal to raise concern.

That's really it, I signed up because I wanted to share the journey I'm on, I'm excited about it, I also have a life, but just because I don't spend years posting on a forum, doesn't mean I'm not as informed. I simply just wanted what others would budget, not a breakdown of my competence or preferences.

I'd like to know, for the sake of proving a point, for my specs, I'll relist them, how is 9-11k CAD too good to be true that this whole thread was redirected.

1.40-1.50
Round XXX/OOO
I-J
SI1-SI2

Hi Breanne ,

There's nothing worse than coming with excitement and feeling the air let out of your balloon. I do think you're misunderstanding some of the comments on your thread though. When you asked about the budget and you gave your specs, posters did just what you asked....they gave opinions on your budget based on what you're wanting. No one is saying you're incompetent! 100% of the people here want you to get an amazing diamond at a great price. I think you probably answered your own question though....you may be able to find a great stone in your budget within your specs, but you will need to be choosey, discerning, and careful which is sounds like you will be. But you would be that way regardless of your budget so you are in a good place .

Come back and share with us what you found. If there ever was a forum of people who luuurve to relish in other people's jewelry purchases, it's this one!!!! We will be excited for you!!! Have you thought about a setting for your diamond?

 

[breanne]

I think the tone of some of the replies were a bit unnecessary, if you read back. I came with my specs to not be told to change them, or to be challenged on every detail, but to get an overall opinion on price. I feel as if I've had to defend my research, and the overall point of price was missed for reasons I wasn't posting about.

Anyway, I have chosen the setting style, and will be having it made through the person I'm buying the diamonds from, as well as the wedding band. If you look up Birks Amorique, it'll be that style, with a 4mm knife cut shank without taper. I'm undecided on white gold or platinum, each have a fair argument, so I don't know.

I'll be looking into an eternity band, with U shapes prongs. Probably similar width to the solitaire setting, I don't like the imbalance of size from each ring, if that makes sense.

http://daisyantiques.com/birks-amorique-solitaire-diamond-ring/

I've attached two photos, one is of my actual hand, obviously not exactly the rings I want, but a general idea of what I want to see on my hand. The second photo demonstrates the balance between the two rings, I like that they fit together and don't loosely lay between each other. Hopefully I'm making sense. Nothing fancy or super unique, but it's the look I envisioned from a young, young age looking through my grandmothers jewellery. Hence why I've been super interested in diamonds and jewellery my whole life.

 

[tyty333]

How is your budget for you wedding band (almost hate to bring this up)? A 4mm eternity is pretty wide and could be 3 carats or
so. I have a 1.4 7 stone that is about 4mm. A 20 pointer is 3.8mm + metal would be around 4mm.

The other thing you might need to think about (maybe you already have), is how tall the eternity will be vs. where your prongs are
so that they it doesnt scratch up against your ering.

I like the look you're going for.

 

[JDDN]

That's an elegant classic look you're after. I think it will be gorgeous! You definitely have to post photos of your finished e-ring and wedding band!

 

[Sagefemme]

This is the kind of thread that keeps this forum interesting. I hope Breanne is right, that her guy is going to find her a stone within her parameters for an awesome price. Please post pictures and report on what you see on June 20!!

 

[breanne]

The budget is fairly open, I've tried to be reserved because he's such a giving person, and works long days for his money, I don't want to take advantage of his willingness to make me happy. I've ALWAYS dreamt of this moment, and had a vision of the rings, I know the price tag that generally goes with them. I've taken a lot of the surprise out of the actual engagement, I knew he'd probably walk into a store and search for what he thinks I'd want, and pay whatever they're asking for. I've taken reign over it, which I know he feels takes some of the romance away, but I've been very diligent in the process to ensure he's not out anything more than he needs to be, while finding something I find pleasing.

The person I'm working with works with someone who creates the bands, and there's prototypes made before agreeing on anything. I'll have to workout those details, but I've questioned how it'll turn out as 4mm engagement IS quite large already, and wanting a band that fits similar in size may take up my whole ring finger lol. I've been informed about the scratching too, which also makes me wonder what metal to go with. I'm not quite there in the process, so much detail to sort out, knowing what you want comes with a lot of work haha

 

[breanne]

The photo below is the closest I can find to my desired width, I'm on my phone so I had to do a quick Google search. Like I mentioned, I love how they fit well together, and similar in width.

I will probably use a mixture of I-J color with SI1-SI2, aside from that I haven't broken down the details too much outside of the band having U shaped prongs. I'm not too sure what to budget either, or, how many diamonds will be needed etc. I'm open to suggestions though.

 

[PintoBean]

If you add a thin 1mm spacer, that should help prevent some of the scratching from the diamond girdles, and still remain invisible.

 

[msop04]

This is the kind of thread that keeps this forum interesting. I hope Breanne is right, that her guy is going to find her a stone within her parameters for an awesome price. Please post pictures and report on what you see on June 20!!

This! It sounds like you know exactly what you're looking for in a diamond... I can't wait to see what you choose, so please do come back and share!

 

[artdecolover71]

exciting! keep us in the loop

when I first joined PS, I was sometimes surprised at an occasional comment, but stick around...it is worth it because you end up helping others and learning in the process...

Take what you like and leave thes rest, it is quite a community!

 

[tracylt]

I am a long time reader, first time poster, but I can't help with this topic. The title is "Advice on price", so I would think she wanted advice from experts about whether the price is too high or too low. After reading her offensive comments (to Gypsy), who clearly was giving helpful advice (at least to me), it sounds like she knows better than all the experts here. So perhaps the topic should be "I found (or am finding) a great diamond for a better price than anyone here could find, everybody give me a clap!" ? That would be much more relevant to what is going on here. Not to criticize anyone, just to say the title is truly misleading.

 

[breanne]

I probably will, I initially thought to close my account, but couldn't find where to do so.

I will receive the list of 10 options next week, we drive into Toronto father's day weekend anyway, so we lined it up to have the stone sent in, and we can kill two birds with one stone while we're there.

My only concern is the week to choose before having it brought in, I was originally looking at 1.20ct, and when he sent the list, I spent a lot of time looking at everything, going back and forth between GIA's website, putting in the specs to HCA, narrowing them down, stressing over the tiniest of differences. Now going from 1.40-1.50 and I-J, there will be a lot of inbetween, so I hope I can sort it out.

Unfortunately I haven't seen a J GIA certified in person, I've watched a lot of good old gold videos over the years, and my threshold IS higher, but that's against white and face down, face up I have a harder time. I can't bring in two diamonds at a time, so I may bring in a J, see how that goes, and if I don't like it, I guess I'll have to go back and pick my second option, and return to view it.

 

[breanne]

I asked for the realm of price for my specs, and I originally didn't share my budget. I didn't ask for a breakdown of my specs, and what certifications I should be looking at, I had already posted what they were. I also had to defend my choice of jeweller, which is not at all what I was asking.

I'm over going in circles about this, I felt one way, and if you completely disregard some of the undertone in the replies, then I can't help you see it any other way. I was voicing what I was looking at, I wanted to see what others would pay for those specs, I'm looking at a range between size and color, so the price had a variance. I don't really see how I was rude, I simply replied to every comment, I actually find your's quite rude, and unneccesary as well. Take care.

 

[msop04]

I asked for the realm of price for my specs, and I originally didn't share my budget. I didn't ask for a breakdown of my specs, and what certifications I should be looking at, I had already posted what they were. I also had to defend my choice of jeweller, which is not at all what I was asking.

I'm over going in circles about this, I felt one way, and if you completely disregard some of the undertone in the replies, then I can't help you see it any other way. I was voicing what I was looking at, I wanted to see what others would pay for those specs, I'm looking at a range between size and color, so the price had a variance. I don't really see how I was rude, I simply replied to every comment, I actually find your's quite rude, and unneccesary as well. Take care.

breanne, I totally get what you're asking, and I think others do as well. You shouldn't feel like you have to defend yourself, as it seems like you've done your due diligence on the diamond scene. I truly hope you come back and show us the diamond and ring! Best of luck to you!

 

[MollyMalone]

* * * I will receive the list of 10 options next week, we drive into Toronto father's day weekend anyway, so we lined it up to have the stone sent in, and we can kill two birds with one stone while we're there.
My only concern is the week to choose before having it brought in, I was originally looking at 1.20ct, and when he sent the list, I spent a lot of time looking at everything, going back and forth between GIA's website, putting in the specs to HCA, narrowing them down, stressing over the tiniest of differences. Now going from 1.40-1.50 and I-J, there will be a lot of inbetween, so I hope I can sort it out.
Unfortunately I haven't seen a J GIA certified in person, I've watched a lot of good old gold videos over the years, and my threshold IS higher, but that's against white and face down, face up I have a harder time. I can't bring in two diamonds at a time, so I may bring in a J, see how that goes, and if I don't like it, I guess I'll have to go back and pick my second option, and return to view it.

Clarification, please:
Even tho' he will bring in just 1 stone off the list he sends you next week, does this mean he will show you no other stones, so you won't even be able to see somewhat smaller or larger stones with GIA color, cut and clarity grades within the parameters of what you're presently thinking you want? Being restricted to viewing 1 solitary stone per visit eviscerates a huge advantage of in-person shopping, so if that's the MO, it's good for folks considering this option to know that.

 

[breanne]

Yes, only one stone at a time. They don't keep diamonds on hand, I don't feel this process is for everyone, it works for me as I already know my general preferences visually. They can send you multiple ideal scope and ASET imaging, but for actual in person viewing, only one at a time. I think this has to do more with the vendors than anything else, I could be wrong though.