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Advice on price

breanne

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 7, 2016
Messages
188
Hello,

I'm new to the forum, I come often to read, but haven't asked any questions yet. I've finally found the perfect man, so I'm on the hunt for the perfect diamond (I know what I like :angel: ) Most of the diamonds I'm looking at are excellent/very good graded by HCA, I know little nuances will fluctuate each stone, but I wanted to get some feedback on price.

Anyway, I'll be looking at :

Round - XXX/OOO
1.40-1.50
GIA/AGS
SI1-SI2
I-J

I'll be purchasing in USD, what would you say is the price range? I have a budget in mind, I won't post yet, I want to see what realm of numbers that come up. Thank you! :twirl:
 

flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
2,175
It is better for you to post your budget, and we can review if it's realistic.

Meanwhile, you can visit sites like bluenile, jame allen, and whiteflash to do some market research of your own.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
9000-12,000 is about where's I'd put you at. 9k will be very low and make a nice stone hard to find. And 12k would be the absolute maximum.

If you are buying for someone else I'd advise you to raise both your color and clarity requirements. H/I in color at least. And Si1/VS2 or better. So realistically 10k-11,600 is where you are likely to be.

Most Si2's are not going to be eyeclean and are going to have significant issues, and J color stones we do not recommend unless the wearer has specifically seen them and loved them.
 

breanne

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 7, 2016
Messages
188
I'm working with a jeweler, he estimated around $6500, I'm looking for the diamond for myself, but I'll be proposed to with it lol.

I don't mind the colour I-J, because I'm going for XXX/000 I don't think it's neccesary to go higher in colour, perhaps some fluorescence as well to make it look whiter. If I weren't going for round, then maybe I'd go up to H, but I'll most likely stick with I.

I'll be viewing the diamond in person before we purchase, so no stress about clarity if I'm unhappy. If I were to buy online then maybe I'd be a little more uncertain, but I don't feel it's neccesary to pay for something your eye generally can't see, or pay a price for the rarity.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
You need to specify the following GIA 3X only or AGS O.
No other lab and certainly not EGL.
Table: less than 60
Depth: 59-62.3
Crown Angle' 33.5-35
Pavilion Angle: 40.6-40.8

And completely eyeclean. i am warning you now the jeweler will try to sell you on crap stones. 6500 is unrealistic and a red flag
 

breanne

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 7, 2016
Messages
188
I did specify in my original post.

It's $6500 USD, which will be closer to 8-9 CAD.
 

breanne

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 7, 2016
Messages
188
No red flags, he doesn't have a store so there's no other costs to pay for. He's reputable, and everything is GIA or AGS certified. The stones I looked at rank below 2 in the HCA, most of which are all excellent or very good at very least.
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
31,541
breanne|1465315084|4041191 said:
I'm working with a jeweler, he estimated around $6500, I'm looking for the diamond for myself, but I'll be proposed to with it lol.

I don't mind the colour I-J, because I'm going for XXX/000 I don't think it's neccesary to go higher in colour, perhaps some fluorescence as well to make it look whiter. If I weren't going for round, then maybe I'd go up to H, but I'll most likely stick with I.

I'll be viewing the diamond in person before we purchase, so no stress about clarity if I'm unhappy. If I were to buy online then maybe I'd be a little more uncertain, but I don't feel it's neccesary to pay for something your eye generally can't see, or pay a price for the rarity.
For a well cut GIA/AGS 1.5ct??.. :errrr: something doesn't jive here.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
breanne|1465316480|4041198 said:
No red flags, he doesn't have a store so there's no other costs to pay for. He's reputable, and everything is GIA or AGS certified. The stones I looked at rank below 2 in the HCA, most of which are all excellent or very good at very least.
Okay so. HCA is an elimination tool. It just a rejection tool. And you use it IN ADDITION to a GIA 3X not in place of. And even that isn't enough. You need the spec range above.
And an idealscope image. That IN ADDITION to depth and crown are you selection criteria.
HCA misused is basically useless.

But you will do what you will.
 

breanne

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 7, 2016
Messages
188
I'm not exactly sure where the hostility is coming from "you will do what you will."

I know it's an elimination tool, but lots of people want to know what the stones grade on it, which is why I included the information. I'm not looking at improper proportions in the diamond, nor am I looking at IF diamonds that are colourless. I've opted for a lower clarity and colour, while keeping the cut as priority. There are plenty of these stones listed on the main diamond sites online, I'm working directly with a jeweler to avoid additional costs from brick and mortar. I've done a lot of research in the past year for whom I'm choosing to go with from extentive searches, and reviews.
 

breanne

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 7, 2016
Messages
188
I will see the diamond in person, everyone is provided with ideal scope.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
Okay then. No hostility just insomnia.

I am sure you'll get something you love and that's all that matters. There are exceptions to every rule and it sounds like your jeweler is one. Good for you.
 

breanne

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 7, 2016
Messages
188
Well, to be honest, I've always been a diamond lover, I never dreamt of the wedding, just the ring. I think because of that I've always been on the lookout for someone, as I knew I wouldn't pay in store pricing. I don't mean to upset anyone with this comment, but I also knew I wouldn't order online either. Too many poorly cut diamonds sold, unable to view the diamond before purchase, I took my time to find someone who works within a space where they don't pay overhead costs, with store front expenses etc.

I'm Canadian so I will be paying USD. Although the price seems low, it'll be closer to 10K CAD, and that's without the band etc.

I did my own hunting and found similar stones for similar pricing so I know it's not an out of this world deal, just a bit better of a price dealing with someone who deals directly with the sellers with nothing in between.
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
31,541
IMO, $6500 sounds too good to be true for a 1.5ct GIA/AGS I SI stone... ::)
 

breanne

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 7, 2016
Messages
188
1.40-1.50
SI1-SI2
I-J

Come up on pricescope for less, even with GIAXXX, not sure why everyone is so put off by $6500, I'm probably saving about 1k working directly with my jeweller, so a budget of $7500 is still even healthy buying online, I'm not paying for the expenses of online dealers, brick & mortar. Ultimately the stone itself will be costing me 10k or more, it lines up with price, otherwise if the conversion was from 12k USD, that would be closer to 15k CAD, which is overly priced for the specs I'm after. Even way more than brick and mortar where I'm from.
 

drk14

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 25, 2014
Messages
1,061
Probably the reason your getting some push-back from long-time PSers is that with your search parameters, current diamond prices range from around $5k to around $12k. So while $6500 USD is possible, approximately 80% of the available diamond stock is priced higher than $6500 (these market prices are mostly from internet vendors, who have the same overhead savings as your jeweler -- so we are comparing apples to apples here). Moreover, the diamond market is very efficient, so there are very few "bargains" to be found (i.e., lower priced diamonds are priced lower because they are harder to sell for some reason or another). Thus, while it is definitely possible to find stones with your specs in the $6500 range, a natural question would be why are these diamonds priced in the 20th percentile?

Here is an example of an AGS0 1.54ct J SI2 for $6400: http://segoma.com/v.php?type=view&id=BT8I718BB

I'm not implying that all $6500 range diamonds will have clarity issues like the one above, just that it will be much harder to find a nice diamond with your desired specs at this price. If your jeweler can do it, kudos to him! But this is the reason why you may be sensing some skepticism from the other posters.

I think you'll be fine, since you seem knowledgeable, you are restricting yourself to GIA/AGS, and you will have the opportunity to see the diamonds in person before purchasing. Good luck, and enjoy your hunt!
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
Because we know that many of the stones at lower price points have flaws and are priced that way for a reason. Like transparency issues and clouds even if they are eyecealn and well, many just aren't eyeclean.

I guess I don't really see the point of your post.

You asked a question. We answered it. And you've decided you know better and you have a jeweler you seem confident in and have done your research.

So again: Good for you!

Why are we still talking? I just don't see the point of this post.
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
21,670
According to what I see on line you are about $500-$1000 low (and that's for your bottom specs). I did find a few slightly
smaller J colored that are nicely cut but slightly more than $6500. Please post what you eventually get...we'd
love to see what your jeweler finds for you (I mean that sincerely 8) ).
 

breanne

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 7, 2016
Messages
188
I think anyone reading can see, including yourself, that your response in particular has been aggressive. I didn't ask how the stone may appear, or may not appear to be, I asked a general opinion on price. You've called me out for having a red flag type deal, expressing that my stone may not be GIA OR AGS verified, went on to try to inform me of what certification not to go for.

Furthermore, you also commented on the specs, going for VS2 SI1 and H Color over my written preference. This is why we're still here, why you're still here, because you wanted to somehow direct my purchase in a way that suits you. You also tried to let me know that HCA is merely just a tool, and should not be used in place of GIAXXX etc. I've been nothing but open with my search, my expectations, and you've essentially written each and every time against my post. Take a look, if you can't honestly agree, please don't further comment.
 

breanne

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 7, 2016
Messages
188
I will! I will work through a list of options next week, and travel to Toronto to see whichever one I have brought in the 20th!
 

PintoBean

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 27, 2011
Messages
6,379
Hi breanne,

Here are a couple comps for you - BG Blues with medium fluor
1.523 J SI1 and 1.471 K VS2
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/search-for-diamonds/round#search_compared_results

You could also look for candidates with fluor in the virtual stock of JA or BN and if you see something that looks good, ask your jeweler if they can do better than the listed price and if they can call it in for you.

I am ok with K's because my skintone helps! without a tan I'm a Mac NC27 on a pale day :naughty:
 

flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
2,175
I think 6.5k is reasonable for 1.4~1.5c J.

I dont think I color is doable with 6.5k
Who is your vendor in canada?
 

gr8leo87

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 24, 2015
Messages
381
Thread subscribed. I'd love to see what you purchase. Please do keep us posted. And best of luck for your search!!

Just a helpful note, I'm pretty sure you already know all of this but still: the 1.4 and 1.5 are different price categories, there will obviously be a price jump on 1.5.

Some SI2 with transparency issues appear eye clean to untrained person. Make sure this isn't the case.

Some strong fluorescence stone may appear over blue and hazy. Make sure this isn't the case.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
 

breanne

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 7, 2016
Messages
188
Yep, I'm familiar with over blue fluorescence, I personally don't mind a bit of fluorescence, especially in the lower coloured diamonds. As far as price variance from 1.40-1.50, I did express that the carat weight isn't necessarily what I care about, more the face up diameter. I don't want to hit exactly 1.50 due price increases, and I'm fully aware of the price difference in that of I-J and 1.40-1.50

I want to see a J, I know I personally don't mind I color, if I'm unhappy I'll just send the stone back and switch colours. J color brings down the cost significantly, so if I can find one that I find pleasing to the eye, I think it's a good trade off for size and cut.

I know everyone feels that it's comparing apples to apples, but you do pay more for online vendors, maybe not significantly, but there's definitely a difference. With that said, $6500 was a rough estimate, which in turn has to be switched over to Canadian and 13% tax, my point in expressing if I were to pay 10k USD, that would exchange for quite a bit more Canadian, and out value the stone I'm actually looking at. I know that wasn't your specific comment, but I wanted to clarify. I'm not upset with some inclusions, so the price for a stone that is GIAXXX and has a good performance grade IS fine for me. We all have different desires for diamonds, and where we place its value, but I don't feel 9-11k Canadian is so much of a deal for the diamond I'm looking at to feel it's too good to be true.
 

PintoBean

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 27, 2011
Messages
6,379
I think you know exactly what your parameters are, with regard to price, size, color, clarity, etc. Most importantly, sticking to your budget. Since you will be buying in person, find out if you can take the diamond with you for a week to make sure that you're in love with it in your normal lighting conditions as much as you are when you see it in the store.

If you want additional feedback from your fellow PSers once you've narrowed down the search to a couple of candidates, you could always post images for input.

I wish you well, and do come back and update us on your search! :wavey:
 

breanne

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 7, 2016
Messages
188
I will! I have a week to decide whether I like the diamond, so that's comforting as well. I'll share next week the two I narrow down to!
 

MollyMalone

Ideal_Rock
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Jun 2, 2013
Messages
3,083
breanne said:
* * * I'll be purchasing in USD, what would you say is the price range? I have a budget in mind, I won't post yet, I want to see what realm of numbers that come up. Thank you! :twirl:
breanne said:
I will! I will work through a list of options next week, and travel to Toronto to see whichever one I have brought in the 20th!
Since I'm a US resident with no knowledge of this kind of transaction, I'm curious as to what the advantage is to you, a resident of Canada, in paying a service fee for converting your Canadian dollars so as to pay someone in Toronto in US dollars.

I initially thought -- because you said he doesn't have a retail store & you made clear you have no interest in making an online purchase -- that he is one of those vendors who hold themselves out as a diamond "wholesaler" willing to sell to retail customers at "wholesale" prices, maybe has a booth in Toronto's version of a Diamond District. And I was going to say that would be reason enough in my book to not deal with him because that's a unprincipled, deplorable sales tactic.

But you've since said he "works within a space where they don't pay overhead costs, with store front expenses etc." If true, that's a sufficiently unorthodox, business arrangement that it raises other questions-concerns in my mind -- especially if, as it seems, this will be a cash transaction (which, honestly, I wouldn't agree to were I in your shoes). So I'll encourage you to proceed with skeptical caution... maybe even do additional "legwork" like, e.g., ascertaining whether this is a business that's registered with Ontario's provincial government?
 

breanne

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 7, 2016
Messages
188
Thank you for your concern, most diamonds are bought in other currancy than Canadian, he could make the exchange himself, then forward the total in Canadian dollars, but he lists the USD pricing. I've mentioned that I'll be paying in Canadian, I listed the USD here because I know a majority of people are not from Canada, so if I said, 9-11k CAD, that may mean nothing to you. There is no service fee aside from the exchange, and whatever profit deducted, we pay harmonized sales tax on almost everything at 13%, so whether I purchased the diamond in Canada or elsewhere, that tax would apply.

I've done my due diligence, it would not be a cash transaction, and they do hold an office. They don't keep diamonds on hand, they'll order them in for you, so that limits extra price ups that other retailers have, including online. I've never once said I'd be going to a dingy hotel, paying cash, and not have thoroughly done research with whom I choose to do business with. I feel as if my thread has been hijacked into lecturing me on decision making.

I understand if people come from a place of concern, 9-11k CAD for what I'm looking for is not a ridiculous deal, I'm not meeting some random person and being cohersed.

This person posts on this site, and I'm sure many of you would be familiar. I'm not planning on sharing the information now as I feel too much negativity. I was excited to join this forum, I kind of wanted to see the realm of pricing of which a person would feel comfortable paying, but I think I'm over it. Just because someone's been on a forum for a decade, doesn't indicate their knowledge on everything and everyone in the diamond world, and it also doesn't mean I know less because I signed up a day ago.
 

flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
2,175
Hi. :wavey:

I am also from Canada. Things sound legit to me. I am familiar with the shopping environment you described; I know a couple vendors who are like that.

I have never been to Diamond District in NYC. But small vendors here in Canada function more like Bluenile or any other online drop shippers. They have small offices, access to virtual inventory shared among them, and bring in GIA/AGS diamonds free of charge for inspection upon customer's request.Pricing is comparable to B2C, BN, Solomon Brothers, etc....

Some Canadian vendors do accept US currency (eg USACertedDiamonds.com). There is no reason for them not to. Diamonds are mostly traded in US currency, and their pricing in Canadian dollar is often simply US price x currency conversion rate. For anyone who actually has some US dollar from, say, two years ago, it makes sense to pay in US, rather than CAD.

Also, the exchange rate a vendor applies is often higher than what banks apply. This is one of reasons why I never shop at Bluenile; no option to make payment in US dollar for Canadian shoppers, and the exchange rate they apply. It is almost always better to pay in US currency.

Just sharing what non-US shoppers go through when US dollar is strong.

Good luck to you breanne
 
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