A Courting Story

[Jambalaya]

cmd - you're great! I would have liked a booty call in the form of dinner, nice conversation, then booty.

But just the booty? No.

 

[Jambalaya]

And also, I'm getting older and going out late isn't as appealing. SO sad!

 

[SandyinAnaheim]

Good job @Jambalaya. The Frugal Gourmet must be reminded that he must massage the cow while feeding it champagne while listening to pleasing music, like Kobe, before he gets the milk, cuz it ain't for free.

 

[MamaBee]

Omg..I understood everything! I must be a fast learner!
No dinner and romance..no dessert!

 

[Jambalaya]

Exactly, Mamabean!

I swear, I don't know how some men can reach their late fifties and still be so clueless about women. All for the lack of a bit of finesse, no one gets dessert.

At least I have my principles to keep me warm!

Hopefully this is the last time he'll try the after-dinner stunt. And if it doesn't work, I'll just have dinner and dessert with someone else.

 

[MamaBee]

Exactly, Mamabean!

I swear, I don't know how some men can reach their late fifties and still be so clueless about women. All for the lack of a bit of finesse, no one gets dessert.

At least I have my principles to keep me warm!

Hopefully this is the last time he'll try the after-dinner stunt. And if it doesn't work, I'll just have dinner and dessert with someone else.

If you really like him you may have to tell him..He may be clueless and never get it..If he’s not worth it to talk to him....there’s more “frank and beans” at the barbecue!

 

[Jambalaya]

I did. After telling him I couldn't make it, I told him next time, dump his colleagues for dinner and spend it with me instead. He said, "Of course!" Remains to be seen if the message has sunk in or not.

 

[Jambalaya]

And I know there are other restaurants out there, but I really liked the look of this one. If it's ever re-branded, it should be called Garth.

 

[Jambalaya]

I've got another one on the go who needs more finesse, too.

Currently, nobody is getting Jambalaya's dessert!

 

[Jambalaya]

I am weakening...turns out he's getting into town later so will not be his usual tired, jetlagged self. That bodes well for the dessert...

 

[AGBF]

I am weakening...turns out he's getting into town later so will not be his usual tired, jetlagged self. That bodes well for the dessert...

Can you explain that? He gets in later and is therefore not as tired as usual? Wouldn't getting in later mean he'd be more tired? (I have to know the details here.)

 

[Jambalaya]

Oh - he's leaving his hometown late this morning, so he did not have to get up at his usual 5 am.

 

[cmd2014]

cmd - you're great! I would have liked a booty call in the form of dinner, nice conversation, then booty.

But just the booty? No.

I agree. Maybe even a "hey, I'm sorry that I can't make dinner with you, but can I come by later with a really nice bottle of wine and some dessert for us to share" might have been ok. But a "hey, I've had my social needs met elsewhere, can my frank and beans come visit your can" kind of thing is just not appealing once you're beyond a certain stage in life. You deserve better! Hopefully he'll be responsive to the feedback you've given him. But if not, there are plenty of fish in the sea!

 

[Jambalaya]

I'm going, cmd. I need some nookie.

 

[cmd2014]

I'm going, cmd. I need some nookie.

I hear ya! Don't we all!!! His loss, someone else's gain.

 

[Jambalaya]

So, I went to see Paddle Hands. We talked and we established that we are completely, totally incompatible sexually, hence the frustration last time. Unlike last time, though, I did not oblige him. Bottom line: (Matata, look away) He wants to play around and get each other off but not have sex, whereas I'm longing for a good old-fashioned porking, so I find the playing-around-with-no-penetration thing intensely frustrating. To me, it adds up to sexual rejection, even if he didn't mean it that way. And I've had enough sexual rejection to last me a lifetime. I want to be pounded into dust pestle/mortar style.

He's 16 years older than me, so maybe that has something to do with it. Or maybe he's not attracted to me enough - which is odd because he was stroking me all over and kissing me beautifully and running his hands all through my hair - or maybe he likes the perceived power of dangling a woman.

Whatever, getting each other all hot and then not having sex isn't where I'm at. He didn't want sex, I did, we both expressed our desires and stuck to our guns, and that's OK. I told him if I went along with it ("it" meaning that I was supposed to eat my dessert and he would use his paddle hands, if you get my drift) I would just resent it tomorrow. I'm proud that I expressed my needs and stuck to my guns, as did he, so the result is that nobody had dessert. And I guess that's what sexual incompatibility is.

 

[JPie]

That is just so odd! Can’t say I ever encountered a straight man who didn’t want his frank and beans to visit a lady’s can (thanks @cmd2014 - best euphemism ever!).

 

[Jambalaya]

Thanks, JPie. I'm a little puzzled, too. He kept saying how pretty I am, and there was SO much sensual touching - it was particularly lovely the way he stroked my hair - and we had such nice conversation, but it was the same as the last two times. Basically, three times now, we've met, been attracted to each other, got nekkid...and he didn't want sex, although he wanted us to do the other stuff outlined above. And this was the third time. I can't take that every time - three times is just rejection, for me. So I turned him down for what he wanted, and I was truthful about it feeling like rejection and that I wanted a full sexual relationship. He wouldn't budge, though. He just wants to touch and play but not go all the way. (Hey! I'm a poet and I don't know it!)

I don't think he has a low sex drive - he was plenty excited, and he was ALL over me, both in the bar and in his room, stroking and kissing. Just didn't wanna do the whole deed, for the third time. And truth is, he doesn't need a reason. He just said he wasn't comfortable with going all the way. (He's 58, by the way.)

And that's fine, but I need something different. And even if he changed his mind, it wouldn't be the same because now he's the guy who didn't want to make love to me, in my mind.

 

[JPie]

@Jambalaya I wouldn’t be okay with that either. Dump or get off the pot!

Anyway, better luck with your next gentleman caller!

 

[missy]

@Jambalaya I'm sorry you aren't getting your needs fulfilled. Yes, you are right, sexual comparability is key in any successful relationship but especially critical for a *sexual* relationship. Hope you find your sexually compatible and hopefully emotionally compatible partner soon. You deserve it girl.

I have to add I didn't realize you are so young. You are in your sexual prime and you deserve to get those desires met preferably by a sweet and handsome and generous and funny guy. Wishing that for you.

 

[AGBF]

I am curious, Jambalaya. Do you know his sexual history? Has he been married? Does he have children? Is he in a relationship now?

I am asking because I am curious. As you say, he doesn't need a "reason" as in a written excuse not to "go all the way", but in my opinion, as in yours and in that of some others here, his not desiring to do so in the circumstances raises questions. So I am interested in possible answers.

 

[Jambalaya]

Thanks, Missy, JPie, and AGBF.

He's been married twice and has an adult daughter. He's not in a serious relationship. He was a late starter - lost his V-plates at age 24, he told me last night - and he's had weight loss surgery at some point in the past. So he must have been pretty large at some point.

I hate thinking that perhaps withholding sex is a control thing to make up for the rejections he might have received in the past, but last night we got along very well and I KNOW I looked nice - he kept stroking me all over, especially my hair, which was lovely - but he would not have sex, and all he would say is that he didn't feel comfortable doing so. For the third time.

The other possibility is that we are different faiths (Jewish/Methodist). Perhaps he feels that as long as he doesn't go all the way, no one upstairs will be mad at him for dating outside his faith?

He describes himself as a hopeless romantic, and he is, albeit one who does not want the penetrative kind of sex. Oddly, he tells me that he is very sexually adventurous, that he has had a threesome, and been to swingers' clubs, to which I have an open invitation with him!!!

 

[bludiva]

I feel hesitant to comment on something so personal but I had to say....don't take it as something about you....I think women tend to do that and it's not fair to ourselves. It could be so many things. He could have an STI he's not ready to tell you about. He could have a ladyfriend he has been hiding who has a loose definition of not cheating. He could have had problems with his performance in the past. I mean so many many things that have nothing to do with you at all, don't make it mean something about you which it doesn't.

 

[Jambalaya]

To be perfectly frank (shout-out to cmd!) what he really wanted was oral sex. I declined, saying that I would only resent it tomorrow, which was the truth.

 

[Jambalaya]

Bludiva, thank you. Of course, the thing that's running through my head on a loop is that I'm too fat. I am quite overweight, but it doesn't go on my face and I still think I look nice, and he couldn't get enough of kissing me and stroking me.

But I still think that if I was a size 4-6 he might have magically found that he did want sex after all.

He's had weight loss surgery so I thought he understood.

 

[Jambalaya]

Performance-wise, his erection did ebb and flow a little, although it was mostly OK - he's 58, after all - and I'd have insisted on condoms, which I had with me.

 

[missy]

He describes himself as a hopeless romantic, and he is, albeit one who does not want the penetrative kind of sex. Oddly, he tells me that he is very sexually adventurous, that he has had a threesome, and been to swingers' clubs, to which I have an open invitation with him!!!

@Jambalaya I hope you don't mind me saying your gentleman friend seems mess of contradictions IMO. Something feels off. Whether he is a hypocrite (because let's face facts..it is just semantics IMO if you do everything but penetration and then claim you are not having a sexual relationship and are following religious rules whatever those are) or something else is going on...listen to your gut.

When my dh and I were dating on our third date he asked me if it was OK with me if we took things slowly and I was completely on board with that. I remember exactly where we were (Blah Blah lounge no longer in existence sadly), listening to great jazz, and what we were doing (kiss fest and it was so good lol) when he said that. I also remember silently laughing because no way was I sleeping with him anytime soon anyway...it was only our third date lol. But turns out he was just getting out of a very long term unhappy relationship and didn't want to rush into anything. Which worked out great for us because we got to really know each other and were crazy about each other before we proceeded to a more intimate affair.

All this to say when 2 consenting adults are in agreement it is all good. When they are not it is time to part ways if talking through it doesn't resolve the issues.

 

[AGBF]

I cannot keep up with you, Jambalaya! I try to respond to one posting, but then see you wrote another one. I guess every time that you say something, it elicits a response in me!

If a man is turned on by you, I do not think that he would "withhold" intercourse because of your weight. I think that something else is going on with that. Remember that this man has sought you out several times and been physically aroused by you as well as wanting to be seen with you in a bar.

I feel angry on your behalf that he wanted oral sex, because it is so typical, even though a large part of me believes that he asked for it due to his own pathology or insecurity. It just resonates with me in a negative way because of the many, many demands my daughter has received for oral sex from men. (For the record, I , personally, do not hate fellatio with the right man, but I do not consider performing it some obligation a woman has because she goes on a date with a guy! )

Impotence and performance anxiety are huge deals to men as they age. If this man is not taking Viagra, he may not want to risk intercourse. And, as you say, if he has a secret partner, that "line" of intercourse is a big one. I believe that Bill Clinton meant it when he said, "I did not have sex with this woman" because he had not had intercourse with her. Once I had a relationship and I drew the line at intercourse for similar reasons. Intercourse may just seem a bridge too far.

 

[AGBF]

I just read missy's posting above. She and I have different views on the symbolic tole of intercourse. I agree with her that a sexual relationship is going on with or without intercourse if two people are engaging in sexual acts. I just know that intercourse has a strong symbolic meaning in our culture. Look at all the rites surrounding virginity!

AGBF

 

[Jambalaya]

Thanks, AGBF. I also enjoy giving fellatio to the right person, but I don't like it being used in place of sex. It feels like a way for him to get off while getting out of intercourse with me, and I don't like that. It should be part of the repertoire, not a replacement. For me, anyway.

He was also very concerned that I got my rocks off, too - just not with intercourse! And he was very sensual about touching and kissing. Perhaps this sort of lovemaking would suit an older person better.

Missy - that's a lovely story about your DH!

Usually I like to wait, too, but I'm having a midlife hormonal surge, and my libido keeps tap-dancing in my mind!