Why earth mined anyway? In the colored stone world, where lab grown stones have been around for a while, I think the gem labs usually go by “natural” and “synthetic”. E.g. natural ruby vs synthetic ruby.
Garry, all due respect- because we agree 100% that selling Factory Produced Diamonds based on environmental superiority to mined diamonds is being disingenuous.David and others who are marketing LGD's are using 'Earth' to appeal to peoples environmental concerns.
Exactly. But i agree not to use the word synthetic because for some reason diamond people are not as smart as gemstone people.
David and others who are marketing LGD's are using 'Earth' to appeal to peoples environmental concerns.
This is unfounded because it is trading off. That is negative marketing. It is derogatory and attempting to focus on a missproven concept: that LGD's are enviromentally friendly.
I have generally said mined, or lab to differentiate origin but other terms are understandable and not offensive to me. As for synthetic, I guess it comes down to word association: how did you first learn/hear the word synthetic? In my case, it's synthetic hair, versus human hair. Because of that association, I'm hesitant to use synthetic for lab stones, mostly due to a layperson's likely misunderstanding of what it means, as correct as it may be to use synthetic in this case.
Marketing people took over the debate.Ooh!
Please tell some more
I promise- like MQS- and most others in this discussion , I do not perceive “Earth Mined” in any derogatory sense.
I ( personally) do not derive any negativity whatsoever in the term Earth Mined....of course, we're not that luxurious
Based on this totally unscientific thread.....no one seems to have a negative connotation with the term Earth Mined- while "Synthetic" has garnered some negative reviews...
It reminds me of the old musicians' joke: What's the difference between a normal fellow and a gentleman? A: Both of them know how to play the saxophone. The gentleman chooses not to.
In this thread's context:I struggled before with the musician joke John.
Marketing people took over the debate.
The margins on LGD's are so huge and attractive (because they sell 'off' the rarity of natural diamonds that are rare in bigger sizes.
So people in that nascent industry are throwing huge money on advertising - especially to millenials who make up most of the engagement ring market.
So the marketing is designed to appeal to Gretta T etc.
And that means attacking mining, blood diamonds, De Beers old monopoly stories etc and all things to do with the natural diamond market. They are taking advantage of the fact the product they produce costs so little that Light Box diamonds are selling at half price = $400 per carat.
We see people quoting tens of thousands of dollars for diamonds that will eventually be selling for a tenth of that.
On the other hand there are knowledgeable people buying LGD diamonds for themselves for fun with their disposable income who do not care - the number of PS folk buying Light Box diamonds and having fun with resetting them is great.
The geeky types who love the idea of the technology - that is great and a real serious marketing opportunity.
And for the record, my Vera has a treated blue diamond and some of the last remaining Chatham pink woman made diamonds (I believe a lot of the people in that Ukrainian factory were women). So do not shoot me - I am simply messaging that the messages discussed in this thread are about underhanded marketing trickery.
If anyone wants to engage me further I will just re-post this post.
I think it seems that some believe it's fish or cut bait.
John, you never answered my main point about the term- and more importantly, consumer knowledge.
If a consumer is aware of both, wouldn't they want to know which one came from the earth?
Kind of like Farm Raised, or Wild Caught- but don't get me started on the decimation of the seas by both sorts of operations....
So maybe it's not the terminology that's offensive.
There are unscrupulous diamond sellers- and there have been forever.
There are honest diamond sellers- and there have been forever.
It's going to be the same with Lab Grown Diamonds.
Probably, like now, the bulk of them to be sold by a few Mega sites, and whatever B&M Jewelers that can hang on.
There are already database LG sellers chopping margins to the level where service is impossible.
Why can't a seller sell both, or either promote the great things they offer, without using negative tactics in any way?
I hate to put it in these terms.. if those who find the term offensive can't see past it, it's more of an over-sensitivity on the readers part- especially here in the Lab Grown section of Pricescope- everyone reading this is familiar with both mined and fabricated diamonds.
David, I've given more than two dozen courses over the past year, from the sales teams for global luxury brands to Jewelers of America membership to a LGD-producer's preferred retail sellers.John- if you were working on both sectors of the business and of course you'd want to honestly represent both....what terms would you use?
In showcases for example- if a jewelry store is selling both- how should they label them?
Do you have any Mars diamonds?
@Philmc99 here is some info you might enjoy.I know that it takes a lot of resources and people to mine diamonds from the earth but when people refer to LGD as having huge margins it seems to indicate that earth mined diamonds don't have large margins as well? I can't imagine the entire diamond industry exists on thin margins. Plus the protective nature of DeBeers and diamond sellers leads me to believe they work very hard to make pricing as nontransparent as possible to the public. I don't see the margins as being a con or strike against LGD.
I hope this becomes a thing someday.
And, if not harvested from Mars, then elsewhere in the solar system...be it from a different planet, from one of the many moons around one of the many planets, or maybe even from one of the carbonaceous asteroids between Mars and Jupiter if they bear such a prize as diamonds.
Doubt it'll be in my lifetime, but one never knows.
@Philmc99 here is some info you might enjoy.
During the DeBeers' monopoly - and before the internet - a frequently used term was "keystone." That's a code word jewelers use for a markup of 100%. If you bought a diamond wholesale for $1,500 and sold it to someone for $3,000 you made keystone on it. In the heyday, you'd hear jewelers talk about making key, double-key, triple-key... You have correctly identified the reasons this was possible. Control of supply (DB), clarity of sector roles, and a degree of opacity.
DeBeers' lost their monopoly by the turn of the century - Alrosa is now the biggest player - and the internet lifted the curtain, permitting more and more price comparisons, and blew up traditional sector roles. Now you have "wholesalers" allowing multiple retail websites to post their inventories online - and those retailers compete against each other to offer the most attractive pricing.
Bottom line, the word keystone is a thing of the past. It's rarely (ever) heard any longer in the world of general loose diamond sales. It might still be achieved for low quality (off-cert, treated, enhanced) goods but those products are so entry-level - like McDonald's burgers - that a consumer is already paying a price low enough that they don't "feel" the greater markup. On the other end you have luxury brand stores, like those on 5th Ave NYC, where keystone might be made, but the clients of such boutiques are usually well-aware that they are paying over market price for association with that brand.
Lab grown markups were enormous a handful of years ago. Many jewelers jumped on the product for that reason. Since that time "gasoline wars" have knocked the markups down, but the principle of accelerating change has made their cost-bases decrease as well. What's oddball is that the LGD world tends to follows price increases and decreases in the natural diamond world... If someone can make that make sense to me I'd appreciate it.
Thanks to the availability of information, consumers have more power than ever before. For natural diamonds PriceScope is the tip of the spear, in that regard. Take the page below, for example: We track retail prices for more than 500,000 diamonds listed in our search engine in real time. The world’s top online diamond vendors list their inventories here. So, while this doesn't show markups, per-se, it's a useful benchmark for retail-pricing research, with some stipulations of course.
What about ESL readers David? What do you think the word "mining" conjures up for consumers in CN or IN. Not to mention mercury poisoning, etc. for Indonesian readers.
David, I've given more than two dozen courses over the past year, from the sales teams for global luxury brands to Jewelers of America membership to a LGD-producer's preferred retail sellers.
I don't see the margins as being a con or strike against LGD.
Stated again:Hi John,
For the uninitiated ( me) what are "ESL", "CN", and "IN"?
Right. And you might have a negative reaction to "Mercury Tuna" - the same way people where mining is toxic, penal and dangerous might react negatively to "Mined Diamonds."I'm concerned about mercury poisoning- as an American. I don't think it's limited to Indonesian people. I love Tuna.....which is such a minor consideration in the grand scheme of things, but it's like a canary in a coal mine- Mercury poisoning is a real issue for all of us.
This is a good question and reset. In terms of LGD those who sell both use the terms Lab Grown Diamonds or, in some cases, Grown Diamonds, or Lab Diamonds. The same sellers have only used the term Natural Diamond - in my experience - but it's possible they also use other terms (?)Excellent! How many of the sales teams sell both Lab Grown and stones which were mined? I see this as core to the issue. It seems like there are some sellers dedicated to selling one OR the other- and that's where the rub lies I think. What about those sellers honestly offering both?
I hear you. I'm not going to pick up that saxophone. I can hear yours though. It's okay. Just use some vibrato in the upper register.We have clients of all ages, from all over the world. I have ZERO concern about using the term "mined" in relation to it being somehow insulting to the bulk of our inventory.
It's almost as if some people believe that if we never use the "M" word, everyone will just assume the diamonds were simply lying around on the grass?
Personally, if others wish to use the term "synthetic" to describe lab grown diamonds, it does not bother me one bit- I would not use the term, but others certainly can without insulting me.