“Imperial Jade” cabochon: did I make the right call

[Sydneyphoenix]

So I always had in my bucket list to buy one (or two if possible) “Imperial Jade” cabochons on settings to pass on as heirloom. I previously bought a jade cabochon from a vendor in Melbourne, and while it had lovely deep green tone and decent translucency, it wasn’t up to the level of “Imperial Jade” as I understood it. With the Covid lockdown it’s impossible to travel for gem shopping and decent jade cabochons for sale are far and between online.

There is a small selection of jade cabochons at AJSGems, and a couple had videos that made it look as if it may qualify as “imperial jade” by majority of the market. I have been wondering about why they haven’t been sold all this time, as the certificates go back to 2007, but thought I will discuss the stones with the vendor.

Now they have a real expensive U$135K stone but others of decent quality ranging 5-7.5K, with up to 20% discount. Unfortunately out of four stones in that range only two have decent videos. The vendor did take a photograph with all four stone, after talking back and forth, I settled on the largest and the most expensive of the lot. As I can’t travel to look at the stone in person and I wanted some measure of assurance I’m not buying a total did, I asked the vendor to send the stone for re-certification at AIGS Thailand (as they seem to be one of few that does qualitative certification on jade), and it is happening as we speak. If I’m am to buy the stone after certification, it will come just under $6K after discounts.

So while I am waiting I would like to share the videos and photographs of the stones I was considering and my selection to see if there are reasons for me to back out, paying too much, if there may be good reasons for these stones not selling for almost 15 years. I am hoping to make a ring out of it to pass on as family heirloom and want to ensure it’s “imperial jade” grade.

The first video of a stone held by forceps is the one I ended up choosing, and awaiting AIGS certification. 2.82carat, supposedly of great fine chrome green tone, and excellent translucency

The second video is of the stone that I had considered up to the last minute, it has enchanting colour but the vendor seems to think the colour of the first one is of higher quality or more valuable...

The photo is of all stones I considered for this purchase. The one I ended up choosing is the one on top left, the stone from the second video is on bottom left, whereas the top right is actually more expensive than bottom left but did not have videos and the vendor thought the colour possibly too deep. The bottom right had weird proportions and did not look as good as others.

Well, that's what I have thus far, let me know what you think! All the jade connoisseurs and experts of the World and critique away!

 

[voce]

I haven't bought imperial green Jade but it's also on my bucket list. At those prices, I would hope AJS has a lab report from a reputable lab.

 

[Sydneyphoenix]

I haven't bought imperial green Jade but it's also on my bucket list. At those prices, I would hope AJS has a lab report from a reputable lab.

It only has GIT memo, that’s why I asked them to do a AIGS master jade report.

 

[dk168]

@Burmesedaze the Imperial Jade centre stone in the right that belonged to my mum that I lost in a drunken work event, although small, it was that kind of colour and clarity as seen in your pics, as in glassy.

It was expensive back in the 70s and I hate to think what it would cost to buy now!

@Sydneyphoenix I am not an expert, however, of the 4 stones posted in the pic, the one in the top left hand corner is the one I like best for its colour. Personal preferences and all that.

DK

 

[Sydneyphoenix]

@Burmesedaze the Imperial Jade centre stone in the right that belonged to my mum that I lost in a drunken work event, although small, it was that kind of colour and clarity as seen in your pics, as in glassy.

It was expensive back in the 70s and I hate to think what it would cost to buy now!

@Sydneyphoenix I am not an expert, however, of the 4 stones posted in the pic, the one in the top left hand corner is the one I like best for its colour. Personal preferences and all that.

DK

Top left as in the one diagonally opposite from the narrow tall one? That’s the one I reserved, for certification.

I'm going to post this just once on imperial green jadeite. Take it on a good faith basis, as one may wish to, or not. A lot of knowledge and prevailing terminology in the gem and jade trade are not documented and these may also vary from time to time.

It is about colour, glass translucency and grain and glow. Proportions have to be right to produce this double eyelid effect too, in addition to the inherent characteristics. They are rarer than many think and will be at auction houses, even in China, auction houses. Not at your retailers. To qualify for true blue imperial green jadeite.

One may find smaller, flatter, less glassy similar greens but one of the factors will be lacking. Or with similar colour but inadequate, non-glassy quality. Strictly speaking, not considered imperial green jadeite. They are way more affordable.

Refer to the pics below. From Burma owner. He's not selling but takes it out now and then to see what's the current market price. Each is a good USD 6 digit, too rich for my blood. My local trader friend has seen these in the flesh, these are his photos and says these are the best imperial greens he's seen in the last 3 to 4 years in the market.

Good greens in general keep going up in price. But will they be auction house heirloom investment pieces? Hard to say. It is also about quality and size.

So buy what you like and within your budget. Not so much for price appreciation. Because the sky is really the limit for this grade and no one can outdo the Chinese when it comes to spending power.

The photos show with backing and without backing. Minimal difference.

People always ask if I own imperial jadeite and this is what I show them and the price. Which is why I don't hanker for one, because I rather get an apartment

I wonder if it’s a bit like ruby, where “pigeon blood” is something of a spectrum, with absolute best fetching 100K/carat or more while some that are just missing a minute factor to make it best but still good sells for 10K/carat or so. I don’t pretend the ones I looked at and picked are like the ones you posted, at 4.06mm, depth is only about 52% (though don’t know if that means anything in cabochons), and have no information about grains (though hoping near-ice) and glow may not be perfect. But then I have no intentions of burning $100K on a stone, don’t have that kind of cash lying around but doubt I would even if I have $10M to burn. So I will be satisfied as long as it’s market-term “imperial jade”, not necessarily museum-grade.

I did agonise over two videos as the base colour of the second one was more to my liking (a bit more depth to it?) though the vendor kept saying colour of the first one is more valuable…of course he will say that though.

 

[Burmesedaze]

@Burmesedaze the Imperial Jade centre stone in the right that belonged to my mum that I lost in a drunken work event, although small, it was that kind of colour and clarity as seen in your pics, as in glassy.

It was expensive back in the 70s and I hate to think what it would cost to buy now!

@Sydneyphoenix I am not an expert, however, of the 4 stones posted in the pic, the one in the top left hand corner is the one I like best for its colour. Personal preferences and all that.

DK

Oof! I certainly feel you! Plus, it's your mum's and I would be sentimental about it.

I've also done a bad thing with my spinel ring and managed to damage the stone when erm inebriated. Must have smacked the hand and ring hard against something while keeping balance. Pre-Covid days.

 

[dk168]

Oof! I certainly feel you! Plus, it's your mum's and I would be sentimental about it.

I've also done a bad thing with my spinel ring and managed to damage the stone when erm inebriated. Must have smacked the hand and ring hard against something while keeping balance. Pre-Covid days.

That's why I will only have rings made with the centre stone bezel-set since that incident, except for one ring with a very small red Spinel.

DK

 

[icy_jade]

I am hoping to make a ring out of it to pass on as family heirloom and want to ensure it’s “imperial jade” grade.

It doesn’t seem to be “imperial” jadeite…

The quality factors must all come together and am not seeing them in the ones you posted

It’s like how for rubies, sellers like to call their rubies pigeon blood (and some very indiscrimately do so) and some labs are extremely generous with the name but true pigeon bloods are really rare. So I would say is not a spectrum, more like mis-labeling.

 

[Sydneyphoenix]

It doesn’t seem to be “imperial” jadeite…

The quality factors must all come together and am not seeing them in the ones you posted

It’s like how for rubies, sellers like to call their rubies pigeon blood (and some very indiscrimately do so) and some labs are extremely generous with the name but true pigeon bloods are really rare. So I would say is not a spectrum, more like mis-labeling.

Lol this is a shark-pit, such a high standard, compared to what I read about it, but precisely the reason I posted while I am waiting!

I can back out after the certification if the grading turn out to be average, you reckon I should bail regardless to save my U$6K and look for something else? Not much to be found in the market…

@icy_jade @Burmesedaze How would you rate these, interesting the first one despite a crazy pricing is termed emerald-green rather than imperial…

KATHY JADE 翡翠玉石專業直營店｜官方網站

台灣最大翡翠線上交易網，全球唯一翡翠礦主直營店，從開採到銷售「一條龍」式經營，免去各層盤商層層剝削，貨真價實，保證A貨，假一賠十，更有十天鑑償期的保證。

www.kathyjade.com

KATHY JADE 翡翠玉石專業直營店｜官方網站

台灣最大翡翠線上交易網，全球唯一翡翠礦主直營店，從開採到銷售「一條龍」式經營，免去各層盤商層層剝削，貨真價實，保證A貨，假一賠十，更有十天鑑償期的保證。

www.kathyjade.com

KATHY JADE 翡翠玉石專業直營店｜官方網站

台灣最大翡翠線上交易網，全球唯一翡翠礦主直營店，從開採到銷售「一條龍」式經營，免去各層盤商層層剝削，貨真價實，保證A貨，假一賠十，更有十天鑑償期的保證。

www.kathyjade.com

 

[icy_jade]

U$6K and look for something else? Not much to be found in the market…

@icy_jade @Burmesedaze How would you rate these, interesting the first one despite a crazy pricing is termed emerald-green rather than imperial…

The links don’t work for me…

6k is too cheap for imperial jadeite ya? The ones I’ve seen start at min 5 figs. (Not trying to sound arrogant, but prices are what they are)

It depends on how important it is for you to buy “imperial jade”, or is a beautiful green fine? Designations aside, if you truly love the gem anyway, does it matter? Only you can answer that.

 

[Sydneyphoenix]

The links don’t work for me…

6k is too cheap for imperial jadeite ya? The ones I’ve seen start at min 5 figs. (Not trying to sound arrogant, but prices are what they are)

It depends on how important it is for you to buy “imperial jade”, or is a beautiful green fine? Designations aside, if you truly love the gem anyway, does it matter? Only you can answer that.

I will reserve the decision until the certification comes back, impression from the video is good enough. I know it’s lower than “Imperial Jade” I’ve seen elsewhere, but see they didn’t bother changing the price for more than 5 years and it’s after 20% discount…I am hoping Kathys can find me another one in the future that may be more universally acceptable as “Imperial Jade”.

 

[Sydneyphoenix]

Now I remember it, Kathys did offer a cabochon earlier in the year that they would label as imperial jade (帝王綠); a bit small so I passed. Would this have passed as imperial jade (帝王綠)? @Burmesedaze @icy_jade

 

[icy_jade]

That is tiny!

I’m expecting a more vibrant green? Also see some slight mottling? To me it isn’t but interested to hear what others say. But even if not it comes close and it glows which imo usually can make up for other defects. The jadeite glow is mesmerizing irl so honestly I like it more than the AJS ones (apart from the size).

 

[Sydneyphoenix]

That is tiny!

I’m expecting a more vibrant green? Also see some slight mottling? To me it isn’t but interested to hear what others say. But even if not it comes close and it glows which imo usually can make up for other defects. The jadeite glow is mesmerizing irl so honestly I like it more than the AJS ones (apart from the size).

Yeah it being so small is the reason I knocked it back (I wanted at least 2ct, closer to 3ct if possible) but now wonder if I should’ve taken it. AJS claims the one I chose glows a bit while others don’t as justification for pricing it higher, personally I was worried it may be too light but perhaps “imperial” colour is closer to apple green than it is to spinach green; will see what’s what soon enough hopefully.

 

[Burmesedaze]

I think the colour may not be intense enough. But that could also be owing to the lower dome and proportions. Decent green but not glassy base.

 

[Sydneyphoenix]

I think the colour may not be intense enough. But that could also be owing to the lower dome and proportions. Decent green but not glassy base.

Yeah I don’t know dimensions, but size and dimensions wise, AJS one is better. In fact base colour-wise AJS may be better too, a shade deeper, and while it doesn’t glow on the video, the vendor says it does, will see what the certification and naked eye + natural light says if I bring it home, they have return policy so I can examine it. I take it glassy is better than icy, Imperial has to be glassy and icy is not good enough?

 

[Sydneyphoenix]

I've recently been introduced to a vendor within Australia (though interstate) working mostly through Facebook, and came across this. Looks either "Imperial Green Jade" or near it, they are terming it "Emperor green", don't know if that's their way of categorising quality very near to but not quite "imperial", or another way of calling something "imperial", the vendor uses both term throughout the Facebook page.. Price is remarkable if legit "Imperial" even if for small cabochon size. What do you think, any good? Sorry again... @Burmesedaze @icy_jade

 

[icy_jade]

The color is less intense/vibrant than what I expect imperial green to be (personal preference and all that), but so far I like it best of all the cabs you’ve posted. It’s a tad small though…

I have to ask… if you are willing to spend that much now, and then more later for an imperial… does it make more sense for you to make a splurge now rather than ending up with 2 rings? Sort of like getting the “one ring” now. In work speak, get it right the first time.

while it doesn’t glow on the video, the vendor says it does, will see what the certification and naked eye + natural light says if I bring it home, they have return policy so I can examine it.

If it glows, it’s quite easy to capture in pics. Suggest you insist for them to send you some pics that shows the glow. I’ve never had problems capturing the glow for my cabs that do. The glow easily appears in all light eg natural shaded light, no need strong lighting for the effect to appear.

AIGS is one of the generous labs re designations so I would advise you to ignore cert designation and trust your eye.

I take it glassy is better than icy, Imperial has to be glassy and icy is not good enough?

From what I understand, imperial has to be the best of everything… color, type (glassy), evenness, saturation, whatever you can think of. So yes, icy is not good enough. I mean, you can have an icy jade that has imperial jadeite color etc but the fact that the type isn’t good enough would mean that it’s not imperial jadeite.

Some eye candy:

安全验证 - 知乎

知乎，中文互联网高质量的问答社区和创作者聚集的原创内容平台，于 2011 年 1 月正式上线，以「让人们更好的分享知识、经验和见解，找到自己的解答」为品牌使命。知乎凭借认真、专业、友善的社区氛围、独特的产品机制以及结构化和易获得的优质内容，聚集了中文互联网科技、商业、影视、时尚、文化等领域最具创造力的人群，已成为综合性、全品类、在诸多领域具有关键影响力的知识分享社区和创作者聚集的原创内容平台，建立起了以社区驱动的内容变现商业模式。

zhuanlan.zhihu.com

 

[Sydneyphoenix]

The color is less intense/vibrant than what I expect imperial green to be (personal preference and all that), but so far I like it best of all the cabs you’ve posted. It’s a tad small though…

I have to ask… if you are willing to spend that much now, and then more later for an imperial… does it make more sense for you to make a splurge now rather than ending up with 2 rings? Sort of like getting the “one ring” now. In work speak, get it right the first time.




If it glows, it’s quite easy to capture in pics. Suggest you insist for them to send you some pics that shows the glow. I’ve never had problems capturing the glow for my cabs that do. The glow easily appears in all light eg natural shaded light, no need strong lighting for the effect to appear.

AIGS is one of the generous labs re designations so I would advise you to ignore cert designation and trust your eye.




From what I understand, imperial has to be the best of everything… color, type (glassy), evenness, saturation, whatever you can think of. So yes, icy is not good enough. I mean, you can have an icy jade that has imperial jadeite color etc but the fact that the type isn’t good enough would mean that it’s not imperial jadeite.

Some eye candy:

安全验证 - 知乎

知乎，中文互联网高质量的问答社区和创作者聚集的原创内容平台，于 2011 年 1 月正式上线，以「让人们更好的分享知识、经验和见解，找到自己的解答」为品牌使命。知乎凭借认真、专业、友善的社区氛围、独特的产品机制以及结构化和易获得的优质内容，聚集了中文互联网科技、商业、影视、时尚、文化等领域最具创造力的人群，已成为综合性、全品类、在诸多领域具有关键影响力的知识分享社区和创作者聚集的原创内容平台，建立起了以社区驱动的内容变现商业模式。

zhuanlan.zhihu.com

Thank you. AIGS is not perfect, but the only one among AJS’ standard list for certification that does qualitative assessment including designation. Not many other labs that does it anyway as far as I know, other than HKJSL and Nanyang Singapore…

The latest stone I put up from Facebook vendor is sold it seems but if they can find me something similar (perhaps a tad larger) for under $8K AUD as they claim, maybe a better bet than the AJS one…?

The plan has always been for two excellent jade cabochons, at least one of which is to be imperial. If one now comes up a little short, but still very near imperial at less than <$10K, might still keep it…

 

[LilAlex]

Refer to the pics below. From Burma owner. He's not selling but takes it out now and then to see what's the current market price. Each is a good USD 6 digit, too rich for my blood. My local trader friend has seen these in the flesh, these are his photos and says these are the best imperial greens he's seen in the last 3 to 4 years in the market.

I always wanted a nice (tiny) piece of jade for spouse and/or me so this is one of the most depressing photos I have seen on PS . I have seen some "Imperial jade" from very reputable vendors but nothing close to this. I probably need to just give up. The list keeps growing: Burma ruby, Kashmir sapphire... .

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

I always wanted a nice (tiny) piece of jade for spouse and/or me so this is one of the most depressing photos I have seen on PS . I have seen some "Imperial jade" from very reputable vendors but nothing close to this. I probably need to just give up. The list keeps growing: Burma ruby, Kashmir sapphire... .

I feel your pain

 

[Sydneyphoenix]

I always wanted a nice (tiny) piece of jade for spouse and/or me so this is one of the most depressing photos I have seen on PS . I have seen some "Imperial jade" from very reputable vendors but nothing close to this. I probably need to just give up. The list keeps growing: Burma ruby, Kashmir sapphire... .

Burmese rubies are probably the easiest to find and "most affordable" of the three, pound for pound, like $5000-10000/ct...

Has anyone heard of or dealt with Myanmar A-Grade Awethentic Jadeite, a business that seems to work out of Melbourne in Australia, but also has a large Facebook presence? Their high-end stuff seem very good, I am wondering if I should forget about the AJs venture and see what they have around $10000 mark. They quoted $40000 AUD up for "Imperial jade" but some of their posts featuring "Imperial Jade" seem to start at $10000-20000. Interesting they seem to be making distinction of "Imperial" green and "Emperor" green, while I am yet to confirm it, seems like "Emperor" may be a moniker for stone very close to but not quite meeting the criteria for "Imperial", like semi-Imperial, if you will...Definitely will check the place out in person after this god-forsaken SARS2-COV lockdown is over and can fly into Melbourne from Sydney.

Myanmar A-Grade Awethentic Jadeite | Melbourne VIC

Myanmar A-Grade Awethentic Jadeite, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia. 18,656 likes · 651 talking about this · 3 were here. CnC Authentic Myanmar Jadeite specialises in A-grade jadeite jewellery. We...

www.facebook.com

 

[Burmesedaze]

That's why I don't like to comment honestly anymore

Will shaddarp and just post happy pics!

 

[voce]

ClassicJadeSG - Etsy

Shop 100% certified Grade A Burmese Jade Fine Jewellery by ClassicJadeSG located in Singapore.

www.etsy.com

This vendor has a couple rings he claims as imperial green. One is a ring with smaller jade cabochons and one is a big cab, but I wouldn't be able to comment whether they are the real deal imperial green, not having owned any.

 

[LilAlex]

That's why I don't like to comment honestly anymore

Will shaddarp and just post happy pics!

No, that was a brilliant post! It is so important to know "how high is up?" I will carry that on my phone.

It's like chasing the finest opaque gray-blue star sapphire and someone shows a "glass body" true-blue.

I bring my spouse's favorite (tiny) sapphire ring whenever I shop in person -- just to use as a benchmark. I even bought a too-small-to use vivid royal blue for the same reason. So many things look "perfect" until they are side-by-side with perfect. Of course comparison is the thief of joy (or something like that!).

 

[LilAlex]

Myanmar A-Grade Awethentic Jadeite

With a name like that...

With the somewhat dubious incorporation of the word "awe," does that also mean that they are not authentic? Like creme cheese instead of cream cheese ?

 

[Sydneyphoenix]

ClassicJadeSG - Etsy

Shop 100% certified Grade A Burmese Jade Fine Jewellery by ClassicJadeSG located in Singapore.

www.etsy.com

This vendor has a couple rings he claims as imperial green. One is a ring with smaller jade cabochons and one is a big cab, but I wouldn't be able to comment whether they are the real deal imperial green, not having owned any.

They don’t look transparent nor icy/glassy enough, we are not even debating yang vs kingfishers emperor vs imperial, at best my cabochon from May’s, or likely even not as good as that.

 

[Sydneyphoenix]

With a name like that...

With the somewhat dubious incorporation of the word "awe," does that also mean that they are not authentic? Like creme cheese instead of cream cheese ?

They claim to have certificates from labs including GIA, personally I will be more reassured by ones from HKJSL, Nanyang Singapore, maybe AIGS. Will be interesting to know if the certificates are from these or at least happy to send the stones for certification.

 

[Sydneyphoenix]

With a name like that...

With the somewhat dubious incorporation of the word "awe," does that also mean that they are not authentic? Like creme cheese instead of cream cheese ?

Upon further communication with them, “Awethentic jadeite” seem a bit strange. They go into waffle about how factors such as tone, saturation, translucency come into play (mind you, pretty poor English for business person) but danced around my question about where “emperor green” fit in scheme of things, though conceded “emperor” doesn’t equal “imperial”. They say the items are certified by “Chinese national lab” (where they have a facility) and will not allow sending of stones overseas such as HK or Singapore, quoting logistics involved in pandemic times; they are happy to test within Australia but there’s really no lab that can do detailed analysis here, only can tell if A-grade jade or not with GSL Sydney. The biggest red flag is that they allow face-to-face appointment only for transactions worth >$50000, saying that the rest are all dealt online; strange given they claim they are in Queen St Melbourne. Tried a couple of phone calls in business hours today but not answering, nor giving me a call back after leaving a voicemail.

I might see what they might have for different price ranges but think this business has too many question-marks and opaque vague communications for me to dump thousands of dollar without better guarantee, might go with original plan with AJS and Kathys for now?

 

[Silvermom]

Upon further communication with them, “Awethentic jadeite” seem a bit strange. They go into waffle about how factors such as tone, saturation, translucency come into play (mind you, pretty poor English for business person) but danced around my question about where “emperor green” fit in scheme of things, though conceded “emperor” doesn’t equal “imperial”. They say the items are certified by “Chinese national lab” (where they have a facility) and will not allow sending of stones overseas such as HK or Singapore, quoting logistics involved in pandemic times; they are happy to test within Australia but there’s really no lab that can do detailed analysis here, only can tell if A-grade jade or not with GSL Sydney. The biggest red flag is that they allow face-to-face appointment only for transactions worth >$50000, saying that the rest are all dealt online; strange given they claim they are in Queen St Melbourne. Tried a couple of phone calls in business hours today but not answering, nor giving me a call back after leaving a voicemail.

I might see what they might have for different price ranges but think this business has too many question-marks and opaque vague communications for me to dump thousands of dollar without better guarantee, might go with original plan with AJS and Kathys for now?

Thank you so much Sydney for doing the research for me. I often thought that they had too many beautiful pieces to be for real. But I have to admit they were so beautiful they were hard to ignore. Now I can feel comfortable about ignoring. Maybe that is the reason their name is spelled "Awethentic and not Authentic". LOL
Thank you for sharing this with me.