Your input please - 1ct H VVS2

[Sean_T]

Wow... Whiteflash customer service is great. I thought JA was good but Jennifer from WF was very... human? Incredibly helpful and reassuring.

I am sure she will love the first link. Only problem is I have about 1.5k NZD for the setting. I had always wanted to get platinum instead of white gold. Which pushes it to 2.5k, ouch.

 

[Sean_T]

Sorry I meant my budget is $1850 NZD, just deducted wire discount.

 

[Shellcm]

Wow... Whiteflash customer service is great. I thought JA was good but Jennifer from WF was very... human? Incredibly helpful and reassuring.

I am sure she will love the first link. Only problem is I have about 1.5k NZD for the setting. I had always wanted to get platinum instead of white gold. Which pushes it to 2.5k, ouch.

Is white gold within budget? I personally would not be opposed to white gold, I like the colour better and I don't like the patina that platinum gets. But I would see if they can do 14k rather than 18k if you do consider white gold.

 

[Sean_T]

There are some nice looking platinum rings within budget. Just not the pave one that @rockysalamander linked which she will love.

I am browsing through all the designs atm.

 

[rockysalamander]

Same setting without the pave diamonds. In budget in platinum. Retains all the lines she liked, ask about switching heads to whichever you prefer. She can get a blingy wedding band...
https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...line-solitaire-engagement-ring-729.htm#size=6

WF is pretty awesome! Your GF will have the most sparkly and incredible diamond of anyone she knows!

 

[Sean_T]

I read 6 prong is better for 1ct above?

6 prong:
https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...n-solitaire-engagement-ring-by-vatche-627.htm

https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...fany-style-solitaire-engagement-ring-1415.htm

https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...-solitaire-engagement-ring-by-vatche-1648.htm

https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...-solitaire-engagement-ring-by-vatche-1614.htm


4 prong:
https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...line-solitaire-engagement-ring-729.htm#size=6

https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...ni-1rz7244-solitaire-engagement-ring-4000.htm

https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...tche-venus-solitaire-engagement-ring-2377.htm

EDIT: oh you picked one of these too @rockysalamander

 

[rockysalamander]

PS member shimmer's set. Legato Sleek with a diamond band.

 

[rockysalamander]

https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...n-solitaire-engagement-ring-by-vatche-627.htm
{some are bothered by this setting since the two N/S prongs are different than the 4 EW}
edit: see post #3 & 5 here https://www.pricescope.com/communit...own-163-or-119-crown-and-any-pictures.232386/

https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...fany-style-solitaire-engagement-ring-1415.htm
{Its a fine setting, but does not really feel like the ones she choose}

https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...-solitaire-engagement-ring-by-vatche-1648.htm
{knife edge. Shank nothing like she asked for and these can be uncomfortable IMHO}

https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...-solitaire-engagement-ring-by-vatche-1614.htm
{knife edge. Shank nothing like she asked for and these can be uncomfortable IMHO}

4 prong:
https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...line-solitaire-engagement-ring-729.htm#size=6
YES. Keeps the lines she liked from the expensive Sutcliffe one. You can still ask about swapping heads as this is one of WF designs.

https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...ni-1rz7244-solitaire-engagement-ring-4000.htm
{Keeps most of the lines she likes, but the shank is 3 mm wide, which is more than she settings she liked; most women seem to choose 1.8-2.5 mm}

https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...tche-venus-solitaire-engagement-ring-2377.htm
{knife edge. Shank nothing like she asked for and these can be uncomfortable IMHO}

 

[rockysalamander]

Thinking about the JA setting, how about this one? Its not cheaper, but it combinesthe lines of the shank from the Sutcliffe with floral feeling of the JA. I also love the side profile on this a lot.

https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...ngle-shank-solitaire-engagement-ring-3811.htm


Danhov Classico, no pave, Nz$1890.74 (14k white gold)
Legato Sleek, no pave, Nz$1162.88 (white gold)
Legato Sleek, no pave, Nz$1694.48 (platinum)*
Legato Sleek Pave, Nz $1721.06 (white gold)*
Legato Sleek Pave, Nz$ 2491.88 (platinum)

Edited to add. As PP said, all else being equal, I prefer 14k white gold over 18k. I wear platinum and yellow gold, because I'm hard on rings and I'm better off with solid/unplated metals.

 

[Sean_T]

I have asked Jennifer from WF about changing to 6 prong and will get costing on Monday. Excited.

Why do you prefer 14k over 18k? I thought higher k is better.

 

[Sean_T]

Just noticed rose gold, she likes rose gold but I think for engagement ring it is not so appropriate.

 

[rockysalamander]

p.s. t

Why do you prefer 14k over 18k? I thought higher k is better.

Did you put your preferred diamond on hold until then? You don't want to lose it.

Rose gold is 100% appropriate if she likes it. Its been used for ering and other jewelry since the 19th century, although really became popular in the Victorian era. Today's rose gold is pinker than vintage gold, which is more like today's peach gold (which WF does not offer) but the rose gold will shift to the peach over 100 years or so. Ask her if she'd prefer rose or white gold. If you want to retain some surprise, make a photo array of each setting in rose and white gold as see what she responds to.

In gold, the higher the carats, the softer the metal and the more yellow the color. So, in yellow and rose gold, which are solid color throughout, most people choose by the preferred color. In white gold, the higher the carat, the more the metal is yellow. You keep the metal plated with rhodium, but when it wears, you'll see more underlying yellower metal. Most people need to replate their white gold every 1-3 years depending on lifestyle and body chemistry.

Using the pics below, you can see the difference in metal colors. Once plated, the two on the right look the same...until the plating wears off.

What job does your GF do?

Platinum vs. 14X1 vs. 18K-WG. There is a definite tint in the 18K-WG. (picture borrowed from @cflutist)

 

[Sean_T]

p.s. t


Did you put your preferred diamond on hold until then? You don't want to lose it.

Rose gold is 100% appropriate if she likes it. Its been used for ering and other jewelry since the 19th century, although really became popular in the Victorian era. Today's rose gold is pinker than vintage gold, which is more like today's peach gold (which WF does not offer) but the rose gold will shift to the peach over 100 years or so. Ask her if she'd prefer rose or white gold. If you want to retain some surprise, make a photo array of each setting in rose and white gold as see what she responds to.

In gold, the higher the carats, the softer the metal and the more yellow the color. So, in yellow and rose gold, which are solid color throughout, most people choose by the preferred color. In white gold, the higher the carat, the more the metal is yellow. You keep the metal plated with rhodium, but when it wears, you'll see more underlying yellower metal. Most people need to replate their white gold every 1-3 years depending on lifestyle and body chemistry.

Using the pics below, you can see the difference in metal colors. Once plated, the two on the right look the same...until the plating wears off.

What job does your GF do?

Platinum vs. 14X1 vs. 18K-WG. There is a definite tint in the 18K-WG. (picture borrowed from @cflutist)

Wow there is so much information, I wouldn't have been able to get the lovely diamond and setting without all the help. Thanks to you and other posters.

I have the 1.16 on hold until I get to speak with another WF staff about 6 prong pricing.

My gf is a teacher. She switched from teaching kids to adults now.

 

[rockysalamander]

To hold the diamond, if you don't need a deposit, you might also put your 2nd choice on hold. You could ask the WF gemologist to compare the J below to the I you selected. Ask about color from the side and if there are very solid I vs. J. If they say the tint from the side is the same, then you could potentially choose the bigger one.

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3770051.htm

Most teachers will be fine with any of the metals. If she is an art or physical-ed teacher, I'd suggest a solid-colored metal (abrasion of the surface of the metal). If chemistry/shop, I'd suggest platinum or palladium (contact with chemicals that can harm/stain the metal). For all rings, she'll want to avoid swimming in them (salt and chlorine are bad & high risk of loss).

Details on the setting:
~ask for claw prongs
~especially if you go with pave, make sure you have her ring size correct. Pave shanks are harder to re-size. They are more forgiving go up a size than down.

But, do ask your GF about white vs. rose. Rose can be very romantic feeling. It really suits some women's skin coloring better than white metals. But, her opinion might be different between a solid metal setting and one with pave.

Happy to help! This is fun for PS members.

 

[rockysalamander]

WF also has a lifetime upgrade plan with 100% of the value of the diamond (settings are a loss). So, if your then wife wants to upgrade to a larger stone, you get 100% of the cost of this diamond toward the new one if it an ACA or Expert Selection (which yours are). No limitation on the value of the upgrade (JA requires 2x) or the color/clarity/size. Its a really nice perk.
https://www.whiteflash.com/confidence/lifetime-trade-up-guarantee

One year buyback guarantee.
https://www.whiteflash.com/confidence/lifetime-trade-up-guarantee

 

[Sean_T]

Hey @rockysalamander unfortunately only 1 can be put on hold. And I can honestly say I wouldn't regret picking the I over J and letting the J go.

If it is there by Monday, they will compare the J and I for me.

Otherwise I am very happy with the I.

May I ask why claw prong vs other prong types?

She is an English teacher so not much to worry about! I heard pave diamonds are not so good for everyday use, may fall out?

 

[rockysalamander]

You are asking great questions!

1) Prongs. I was thinking of the JA setting. They are claw prongs. But, the Suticliffe are more rounded. Its really preference/style. So, either works. I personally like claw prongs on the legato setting, but WF can do either very well.

@ecf8503 solitaire with rounded double prongs (with arrows aligned with the center of the double prong)


Scintillating - Claws on Double Prongs


@sevens one's Legato Sleek with claw prongs


@DancingDelilah's 4 and 6 with softened claws


This picture also shows you one more design consideration (). A 4-prong setting can make the stone a bit squarish looking. A 6-prong will keep it more rounded. That said, she showed you both a 4 double claw and 6-prong, so I'm not clear if she has a preference on this. Another detail to inquire about.

2) Pave settings. A poorly made pave setting or one that is resized (especially downward) can cause the diamonds to fall out. The challenge with pave is that the diamonds are held with tiny bits of metal. So, the skill of the setter matters in how well the seats are carved and the stones held. WF has a very good bench and there have been no complaints. Additionally, the bead-set pave of the Legato line is more secure/protected options.

Resizing, smaller is more risky, the bottom of the ring is cut and the two side brought together. The resizing causes the arc of the ring to tighten and pulls the seats (a notch in the prong to hold the girdle) to pull away from the diamond as the prong is fixed in location at the bottom. Now, a good bench will warn someone of the risk and will work on the prongs to minimize this.


How rings are re-sized:

 

[scarsmum]

I think it's worth considering this OP. It is generally considered a desirable setting. https://loupetroop.com/listings/settings/platinum-vatche-u113

 

[scarsmum]

There's also some pave settings on the same site but I haven't checked the fit. Remember a private sale will not incur GST and probably not customs either.

 

[Sean_T]

@rockysalamander thanks for the examples. So in terms of claw prong, there is a difference as to normal vs softened?

@scarmum thanks for the suggestion! Unfortunately in my culture there is a perception on buying second hand. I don't mind if it is an anniversary present but I don't want to regret my choice if I do go for second hand. Thank you though for giving this suggestion. Also my gf is a 4.5 so I have a fear about resizing.

 

[rockysalamander]

No. The shape of the prongs are personal preference. The benefit of delicate claws is that they are more unobtrusive from the top, but you will find devotees of both style. Either type will work on this setting.Personally, I like sharp claws on this setting.

 

[Sean_T]

No. The shape of the prongs are personal preference. The benefit of delicate claws is that they are more unobtrusive from the top, but you will find devotees of both style. Either type will work on this setting.Personally, I like sharp claws on this setting.

Thank you. I have learned alot from you.

The settings for whiteflash is noticeably more expensive. Would you say their settings are better made?

 

[Sean_T]

How does this one compare to the whiteflash one I am looking at? Around the same price:
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...rat-i-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-2430884

The WF one I am planning to buy:
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3765682.htm

 

[rockysalamander]

They are similar in many respects, although I prefer the location of the inclusion on the WF stone. Where they differ in in the cutting. Given that the WF is super-ideal and precision cut for performance and can document that performance (ASET), it is a far better choice and value (its actually less than the JA one ).

Here's how a super-ideal can be described, quoted from Texas Leaguer, "Rocky’s analogy of a sports car is a good one to explain the concept of ‘super ideal’. It can be thought of as the difference between a two cars with powerful engines, only one of which is in tune.

Both GIA and AGS perform cut quality analysis on diamonds. Only AGS does a direct assessment of light performance based upon ray tracing and taking the contribution of all facets into account. The AGS system is by far the most stringent. Yet, even AGS does not directly grade the optical precision of the diamond. That is, the alignment of corresponding facets in 3 dimensions. ( this is sometimes referred to as ‘optical symmetry’, a term that can be confused with the 'meet point' symmetry graded on a lab report and illustrated by rockysalamaner above). Precise 3D alignment is necessary for optimal light handling properties of the system of tiny mirrors that comprise a faceted diamond.

Therefore, a super ideal is generally considered a diamond with ideal proportions and finish (the engine), along with a very high degree of optical precision (the tuning). That precision can be assessed through light performance images such as ASET, IdealScope, and by VPA analysis. In our opinion, to be a true super ideal a diamond must first have a light performance based Ideal certificate from AGS, and also have proven optical precision. We also impose additional requirements including clarity based issues that might impact light performance, and minor defects of craftsmanship such as extra facets, scratches and chips.

There is no definitive set of criteria for super ideal. Some merchants use the term with regard to GIA diamonds. It is more about understanding what the criteria is for the designation and how the claim is proven."
{posts #14 & 15 here, https://www.pricescope.com/communit...actually-better-than-vs2.232674/#post-4203120}

 

[Sean_T]

Wow I didn't even know there is such a thing as super-ideal. I only compared based on the certificate stating triple ideal. Is something being 'super ideal' relative to which jeweler looks at it? As I do note Texas Leaguer mentioned there isn't a set criteria for it.

Will the AGS certificate actually mention 'A Cut Above' on it? If so that alone including the light performance map on the actual cert makes the WF one a better choice to me.

I had included the 4% off 'JA Advantage' pricing in my comparison.

 

[rockysalamander]

Texas Leaguer does say there are not industry standards, but WF created a high-standard and then documents that they meet that standard. He's right, anyone can claim they have a super-ideal, but they become believable when they provide all the documentation. If the claim did not match the performance, PS would be the first to stop recommending them. Other super-ideal brands you'll see mentioned are Crafted by Infinity and Brian Gavin Select -- I looked there when you started having JA challenges and there was nothing better in budget.

The cert. will say "A Cut Above" and show the performance, here is the one for the stone you are looking at.
http://www.agslab.com/pdf_sync_reports/104090132001-PGRH.PDF

JA True Hearts (TH) are a near Heart&Arrows cut, WF are 'true' Hearts and Arrows. This is just the cut pattern versus the other common pattern just called round brilliant. TH are generally within ideal cut angles, so they are a good choice for many, but they are not cut for performance. They are generally good performers, but not on the level of WF. With the lack of price gap, to me the WF is the hand's down choice...especially with the better tradeup/tradein policy (which may not seem important now, but may in the future).
Also, Found this pic of the Legato with 6 prong head. Looks good.
http://rs508.pbsrc.com/albums/s325/...h-6-Prong-Head-by-Whiteflash-31621_f.jpg~c200

 

[Sean_T]

Thank you. I did see a cut above on the certificate but wanted to confirm it is there on the physical copy as well. I also noted the WF certificate had two diagrams side by side for the ASET while JA's only had the one.

I really appreciate how much help you have given me, and going through the effort to explain in detail any questions I had.

I cannot wait to see the ring in person. I hope getting it changed to six prong isn't a big expense. I do regret not being able to afford the pave version.

Are you a jeweler? You know alot about diamonds.

 

[bmfang]

Kia ora @Sean_T, been MIA dealing with new Bub over the last couple of days. I was going to suggest WF initially, but given your budget and preference for JA, I was holding off.

You've been given some very good advice on here (especially by @rockysalamander). Anyone who doesn't have a "Trade" badge under their profile name is a prosumer. Those who do have that badge under their name are those that are jewellers or wh work in the diamond trade.

WF ACA will blow anything you can find locally in NZ out of the water. Only real contender is Hearts on Fire, but they will require you to sell some bodily organs to afford anything decently sized.

If not WF's ACA range, but Brian Gavin's Signature H&A and Crafted By Infinity are two other super-ideal diamond suppliers. Crafted By Infinity can be found online at High Performances Diamonds. WF and HPD have similar upgrade policies. BGD requires you to upgrade 2 of 3 C's (size, clarity or colour) for their upgrade policy.

 

[rockysalamander]

Happy to help. Like @bmfang said, I'm not in the trade. My grandmother was a private jeweler, in that days when such a thing existed. I spent my formative years working with her. I've kept my love of gems alive although I took a very different career path to become a biologist.

@bmfang Congrats on the new bub!

 

[bmfang]

...
@bmfang Congrats on the new bub!

Thanks. Though to be fair, I keep saying "new" but he's now 8 months old. And he's decided to go back to waking up ever few hours like when he really was a new Bub! Haven't had the time since last Friday to check up on this thread. Glad to see that the OP appears to be going down the super-ideal route now!