Worthwhile to buy ASET scope or IdealScope kit?

[ghostm42]

I'm in the market for a diamond for an engagement ring. I'm fairly certain it will be a round diamond. I haven't decided whether I'd get it online or in-store, but I will probably shop in-store for a bit. I've mostly been selecting diamonds based on HCA scores and rejecting anything above 2.0, but I've also started using the IdealScope and ASET images quite a bit. So, a few questions...

Is it worthwhile for a newbie, one-off diamond buyer like me to buy one of these ASET or IdealScope kits?
http://ideal-scope.com/shop/?product_order=date&product_sort=asc
I won't have a lot of experience viewing diamonds other than the CZ they supply, online images and perhaps my sister's ring for comparison. But I wanted some sort of "standard" environment to compare diamonds to, given all the different lighting setups that jewelers will have.

Do stores typically have this equipment so that I don't have to buy my own? Would diamond sellers be OK if I took this out to view their diamonds?

And is it better to get the IdealScope or ASET scope? I know there's a huge discussion as to which is better, but as a non-expert using this as a buying tool, is one easier to interpret? I realize ASET is for fancy diamonds, but I appreciate the red/green combo as opposed to just seeing shades of red.

 

[chrono]

If you are shopping for rounds, it is easier and better to get the IS. The ASET is mostly used for other cut shapes and takes a bit to understand the results.

 

[proto]

I am sure Garry would love you to purchase both!

Unless you are hellbent on not buying online, I dont think it is necessary, although I am sure it would be educational to see the cut quality of some stones in BM shops.

There are enough online vendors who supply professionally taken idealscope/ASET photos for diamonds.

in my experience stores do not have this equipment. They may have a H&A viewer, if they stock something like HOF branded diamonds.

Doubt the shop would mind, they may be confused/amused if you whip out a viewer. Just be careful when handling their loose stones with the tweezers, especially if they have very thin girdles

 

[ghostm42]

Thanks for the responses.

Proto, when you say they would be amused, does that mean that they aren't familiar with this odd looking loupe/light? I thought ASET and IdealScope were recognized tools that any jeweler would be familiar with, but perhaps it's new-fangled technology stuff that the pros don't use.

Those who have used the portable light/loupe, is this something any run-of-the-mill user handle? As in, I put the diamond on the light, then look down perpendicularly from the top. Is there any learning curve in using it properly? I don't mind learning, but I won't have a lot of samples to learn from and if there's a lot of room for user-error, then there's probably too much variability for it to be useful.

 

[Karl_K]

Mine paid for itself with pure fun I had with it.
I have both aset and IS with the ideallight.
At one shop myself and the owners had a fun afternoon looking at every diamond in the place under both ASET, IS and h&a scopes. The thought it was neat.
They had a diamond they thought looked off but didn't know why, they were excited to see why when viewed under the scope. It was a wonky very steep deep.
They also had one they thought was awesome and again they could see under the scopes that it truly was well cut.
It would have made any pricescoper happy.
Other shops over the years the reaction ranged from hey that's neat to indifference to outright hostility.

 

[proto]

Pricescope loves idealscopes and ASETs because pricescope is full of cutnuts. They value cut much more than the normal market. The normal market just checks for GIA Ex on cut and leaves it at that. Not all vendors are like that and if you start talking to them about crown angles, you will just confuse some of them. While its normal for idealcope/ASET to be discussed on pricescope, I dont think its the norm at all in BM shops.

As for the learning curve, its why the ship you a CZ stone to practice.

My experience with UK jewellers is:

- They have no idea what idealscope/ASET is. The HOF dealers had HA viewers
- "GIA Ex - its already the best, why you want to know more?"
- "just look at the diamond with your eyes and pick the one you like" - nothing wrong with that approach
- every jeweller will say they only stock the best diamonds, and every stone they stock is incredible value and that in-house grading is the same as GIA grading report (it is most certainly not - I also love it when they tell me a stone is GIA H-G in colour because their in-house gemmologist is GIA trained).

I would say it depend on how much you want to spend, and again, whether you are open to buying online.

If you are absolutely not going to buy online, and are going to spend more than say $3,000 on a stone, I think investing $70 on an idealscope is a no-brainer. If you have a budget of $1,000 bucks or something, then that $70 invested needs to get much more value and is a closer call.

 

[ghostm42]

Thanks. I'm almost certainly going to buy online, but I live in NY so there is no tax benefit to not buy in store. And since I'm early in the process, I figured I could visit stores to see what they offer. I've only visited one local store and their prices are nowhere as good as what they have online. But the local store has wiggle room to bargain (which I hate doing).

I might go ahead with both ASET and IdealScopes, just because it seems like a fun gadget. In my mind, I'll bury the cost of the scopes into the cost of the diamond.

On a side note, is a 10x loupe sufficient?

 

[proto]

any jewellery store should be able to offer you use of their loupe.

x10 is standard

window shopping is essential in my opinion, to calibrate your colour sensitivity. Just make sure the stone you are looking at is GIA and make sure to view in a variety of lights (view it outside of the spotlights).

 

[AnneinGA]

Ghost,
I bought my IS Kit and used it regularly even though I ended up purchasing online.

I found it to be a surprising help to me more for how I was treated than the stone view sometimes. Example: one Atlanta store I went in I was ridiculed - why would I not take their word for it, etc, and what did I think I was a GIA Graduate Gemologist? Needless to say, I'd never go there and buy anything ever. One store, though, was interested and the sales person used it, and we spent time together talking shop. That was fun, and I would go back there in a heartbeat.

Course I'm a nerd anyway, so it was a no-brainer for me to buy it!

 

[retinoschisis]

Thanks. I'm almost certainly going to buy online, but I live in NY so there is no tax benefit to not buy in store. And since I'm early in the process, I figured I could visit stores to see what they offer. I've only visited one local store and their prices are nowhere as good as what they have online. But the local store has wiggle room to bargain (which I hate doing).

I might go ahead with both ASET and IdealScopes, just because it seems like a fun gadget. In my mind, I'll bury the cost of the scopes into the cost of the diamond.

On a side note, is a 10x loupe sufficient?

Did you go ahead and buy the ideal scope? I might ask to borrow it if I don't live too far away (union square) because I'm looking at stones this Monday and might not have time to find a scope that soon otherwise.
Andy

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

all good advice
IS for rounds unless you are a CutNut too.
For most users the cheaper one is fine.
But definitely ASET for fancy shapes and those who want to split hairs.

Only reason for more than 10X is to check laser inscriptions, but most people can make out a few numbers with a decent 10X.

 

[sledge]

I like the simplicity of the IS but if I can choose just one I'd want an ASET.

Also, if you download a white screen app for your phone or tablet then you effectively have an ideal light.

Because I'm picky if I get two scopes I'd like a H&A viewer as my second choice so I can confirm symmetry. Finally if I get three, I will add an IS.

Around here, I usually know way more than the people in the BM stores and most don't truly understand proportions let alone advanced imagery, so most would be confused and think I was a whacko that read too much on the internet. Thankfully I have thick skin, lol.

Several months back I walked in a Diamonds Direct with wife and asked to use their scope. Told them I didn't buy there and was happy to pay for the service. The manager comes out to visit with me and learns I bought a from BGD with AGS000 cert and several hours later deep in technical jargon my wife says, "I'm bored, can we go?".

We had a good laugh and agreed that if we had bored a lady in a diamond store, we were doing something wrong.

Now we go back occasionally to casually browse, get steam cleanings and do inspections. A few of them now know what an ASET is and how to read them, lol.

A final thought. I would buy the test CZ to practice on at home. Also I would practice taking pictures. It's bloody hard IMO! The reason I say that is that after shopping awhile, having pics of the certs and ASET/IS images help you remember the finer details and short list selections.

FYI, if in NYC check out ID Jewelry. Ask for Yeuketiel. They have all the cool toys and understand cut quality. Plus they have good prices.