With the help of everyone here, final choice between these 2!

[rockysalamander]

Ok how about this

1.33 E VS2 HCA0.9 $11,002 7.08x7.10x4.33 mm
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4011080.htm

I can't find any specs or a GIA link...can someone post the GIA number of cert details?

 

[icy_jade]

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3995535.htm

Thoughts? So if I understand correctly, any ACA, expert selection diamond from white flash is available for 100 pct credit to any future diamond purchased from WF?

I like this but I’m partial to fluoro.

 

[icy_jade]

I can't find any specs or a GIA link...can someone post the GIA number of cert details?

 

[sledge]

Ok how about this

1.33 E VS2 HCA0.9 $11,002 7.08x7.10x4.33 mm
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4011080.htm

I'm guessing this is part of WF's virtual inventory. I didn't see a GIA cert, or any specs listed on their page. I'm sure a call to WF would produce an array of data for us to properly analyze.

Assuming this stone is indeed part of their virtual inventory...

https://www.whiteflash.com/confidence/lifetime-trade-up-guarantee/

Diamonds in our Virtual Selection category and other diamonds that may be sourced for customers are not part of Whiteflash in-house inventory and are therefore not included in our Trade Up Guarantee. (please see Non-Whiteflash diamonds below)

 

[icy_jade]

I'm guessing this is part of WF's virtual inventory. I didn't see a GIA cert, or any specs listed on their page. I'm sure a call to WF would produce an array of data for us to properly analyze.

Assuming this stone is indeed part of their virtual inventory...

https://www.whiteflash.com/confidence/lifetime-trade-up-guarantee/

Ah, then no. Oops pls ignore that diamond!

 

[Steve88]

I'm guessing this is part of WF's virtual inventory. I didn't see a GIA cert, or any specs listed on their page. I'm sure a call to WF would produce an array of data for us to properly analyze.

Assuming this stone is indeed part of their virtual inventory...

https://www.whiteflash.com/confidence/lifetime-trade-up-guarantee/

I was just about to bring that up. its slightly over my budget but that would've worked

 

[icy_jade]

I was just about to bring that up. its slightly over my budget but that would've worked

Why don’t you go for the one you posted? The 1.306? The color is good, cut looks good, trusted brand, can upgrade, and fits the budget.

 

[yssie]

The Yadav stone is fine.

The extra depth isn’t unexpected with higher-crowned/smaller-tabled stones.
Extra depth = more vertical volume = less spread, but it’s not drastic and you’re aware of the sacrifice.
Extra depth can signal other porportions issues, but the report and photos give us no reason to suspect anything’s wrong. No, it’s not precision cut, but you’re not expecting precision-cut crispness.
Extra depth = concentration of body colour, but this is a GIA D - no issue.

I’m sorry, this is blunt, but given that we know OP is not tied to superideals for mind-clean or visual reasons, the ominously vague question “do you want a stone that looks good on paper or one that performs well” is very misleading. There is quite literally no reason to believe this stone wouldn’t be beautiful - all the information we have points to a promising option given OP’s priorities, and to suggest it’s hiding some skeleton without any explanation of exactly what an actual issue could be is needless fear-mongering. Facts. Explanations. Proof. Opinions are valuable, but they aren’t facts and shouldn’t be presented as facts.

 

[sledge]

@yssie makes some valid points.

For simplicity, let's just assume an ACA or other superideal will give you a level 10 cut on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being the best. Maybe the Yadav will deliver in the 8.5 to 9 range. As long as you are happy with 8.5 to 9 and understand that is what you are getting, that is what really matters.

Have you had any luck with getting images on the Yadav stone? Do any other vendors have access to this stone that may be more cooperative in obtaining images?

Also, when considering buying the Yadav stone, there are still two issues at hand:

• Upgrade policy is not as generous as other vendors. Have you read it? See below.
• This stone has medium blue fluor. Are you okay with this? You rejected previous stones because of the fluor.

https://www.yadavjewelry.com/info/guarantee#upgrade

UNLIMITED LIFETIME UPGRADES
Once your 30 Day Money Back Guarantee has expired, you will have the opportunity to upgrade your diamond(s) at any time and you will only be charged the difference in price with no other fees if the price of your new diamond is at least twice the price of your original diamond. To upgrade, simply send us back the diamond(s) and original certificates, and you will receive credit for the full price you originally paid which we will then apply towards a new diamond purchase. There is no limit on the number of times you can upgrade and there is no restocking fee.

PLEASE NOTE:

• Finished jewelry are not qualified for upgrading.
  
  
• You will receive credit equal to 100% of the original price of the diamond toward the purchase of a new diamond.
  
  
• The price of your new diamond must be at least twice the price of your original diamond.
  
  
• Your diamond must be in its original condition with the original diamond grading report
  
  
• Any damage to the original diamond may disqualify the diamond from our upgrade program. In some rare instances a diamond may have incurred damage through daily wear. In this case, Yadav will still accept the diamond back but the cost of polishing and reshaping the diamond will be deducted from the original price.
  
  
• Preset Diamond Earrings without GIA or AGS Certificates are not eligible for upgrade.
  
  
• Upgrades are only available for diamonds, not for the settings.

 

[icy_jade]

@yssie

Did u read what he posted before that?

I understand it might be slightly deeper and even to hide some carat weight, I feel like it’s something that can be compromised since the diamond will look good on paper. (High color grade, pretty clean clarity and a decent fluoro grade)

I replied based on what he wrote re: looking for a diamond that looks good on paper. There is no attempt to mislead. I even told him it is his choice. READ what he wrote again before you jump to conclusions.

Do you want a diamond that looks good on paper or one that really looks good? It is your call.

My personal opinion is no for that diamond but ultimately it is your choice.

 

[icy_jade]

Also, when considering buying from Yadav, there are still two issues at hand:

• Upgrade policy is not as generous as other vendors. Have you read it? See below.
• This stone has medium blue fluor. Are you okay with this? You rejected previous stones because of the fluor.

And those too.

 

[icy_jade]

@Steve88

If I look at this and your earlier threads, you have a huge number of choices ranging across different vendors, colors, clarity, fluoro etc parameters. At this point again I’ll say that you need to cool down and just stay away from PS and make a decision.

Go with the choice that feels right to you.

End of the day it’s really just a tiny 7 mm or so stone.

 

[yssie]

Agreed, @sledge. Good point re. upgrade policies. It would be ideal if Yadav will provide some images to confirm the "no red flags" from the video.

@icy_jade I've read all the posts in this thread including the exchange you highlighted. I am simply pointing out that the obvious take-home from these two statements, in the context of consideration of the Yadav stone, from someone who's been on PS since May of 2009:

Do you want a diamond that looks good on paper or one that really looks good? It is your call.
My personal opinion is no for that diamond but ultimately it is your choice.​

Is that an experienced veteran is proclaiming this stone unworthy of further consideration as it's concealing some bogeymen. That implication sans any factual explanation is precisely what I called it: needless fear-mongering. We aren't working with only the report for this stone - we have clear video as well.

 

[icy_jade]

@yssie Point taken. As I’ve clarified my comment was in direct response to OP’s earlier statement. But if you still insist there is some more sinister motive I’ll leave it to you.

 

[sledge]

@Steve88

If I look at this and your earlier threads, you have a huge number of choices ranging across different vendors, colors, clarity, fluoro etc parameters. At this point again I’ll say that you need to cool down and just stay away from PS and make a decision.

Go with the choice that feels right to you.

End of the day it’s really just a tiny 7 mm or so stone.

Ouch, that's rough @icy_jade. Regardless of size or dollars, this is the most important diamond purchase HE is making.

I would agree he needs to prioritize his criteria and what is important to him. I've tried to listen and this is my interpretation of what I think @Steve88 is truly seeking. I'm not trying to speak for him, just accumulating information from all his threads. Again, just MY INTERPRETATION:

• Max $11,000 budget, but prefers $10,600 or less.
• F+ color but prefers D or E color.
• VS2+ clarity and probably prefers VS1+ clarity.
• 1.40 carats+ regardless of actual dimensions. I think psychologically he likes the way it sounds vs a 1.25ct or 1.30ct even if the dimensions are the same or so close there is no visual difference. FYI, don't mean this offensively or negatively, just where I think he is.
• GIA XXX or better, but no preference for super ideals as that would take away from his other criteria.
• Prefers none to faint fluor, but he seems likely to sacrifice to achieve other qualities.
• Prefers a good upgrade policy, but he is willing to sacrifice to achieve other qualities.

Unless he corrects the above criteria or new diamonds hit the market or someone finds a source we haven't already combed, I feel the Yadav is the closest to meeting all his criteria as we will get.

 

[yssie]

FWIW I don't think the Yadav is a particularly special or spectacular stone... it simply seems to meet Steve's priorities at a good price if upgrade policies and fluor are acceptable, as Sledge already mentioned. I started writing this earlier but got sidetracked, may as well post it. This is re. the Yadav stone.

This stone is quite obviously no near-H&A, and the price reflects that. From a strictly practical perspective the precision-cutting that yields H&A (the hearts and arrows are happy side-effects, not the goals) serves two purposes:
1. A completely symmetric arrows pattern is something most PSers (though not all! In fact some explicitly prefer a less predictable pattern!) like to see when they look at their stones, and
2. Optical symmetry maximizes virtual facet size given any particular patterning. "Virtual facets" are the primary, secondary, and tertiary refractions that result from light paths through the stone once, again, again, etc. as light is reflected internally at the diamond/air bound, and with each internal reflection some energy is lost, meaning that the first refraction of a given ray is going to be the brightest and strongest. Fewer larger virtual facets permit more higher-energy outputs, and decrease odds of wavelength interference - you'll see more brightness and more coloured flashes. This is a nuance... to say the least.

If you get an IS for this stone, my expectation is that you'll see lighter red under the table - slightly less high-energy light return than other stones. In my personal opinion this is actually a good thing for this particular stone, given the obvious optical asymmetry but decently sized mains: brightness and fire, in the context of a single refraction, have a mutually-exclusive relationship - a single wavelength of an output dispersion is so low-energy compared to white light, it'll just be drowned out. Since this stone is a D there's really nothing to worry about regarding quantity of white light return, so sacrificing a little of it to make room for more colour isn't a bad thing! I am hugely oversimplifying... but probably good enough for now Read here for more:
https://www.pricescope.com/journal/do_pavilion_mains_drive_light_return_modern_round_brilliant
http://www.agslab.com/spie/spie_lo_res.pdf

Also, I like the fact that it's a D for you, besides the obvious cultural benefit. Whiter == brighter, and brighter == bigger. This is a known consideration with coloured gems, and it holds true for diamonds as well, though to much less extent! I've compared my (extremely well-cut) J RB to a (slightly-less-well-cut-but-still-very-well-cut) E RB of exactly the same diameter, and the E looked bigger. I'd expected it, but I found myself surprised by it nonetheless... Of course, you aren't debating between a J and a D! But for you, trying to achieve a certain size, I like the idea of a D to maximize perception of available diameter.

Again, all of this is meaningless if vendor policies and/or fluor doesn't work for you.

 

[Steve88]

Ouch, that's rough @icy_jade. Regardless of size or dollars, this is the most important diamond purchase HE is making.

I would agree he needs to prioritize his criteria and what is important to him. I've tried to listen and this is my interpretation of what I think @Steve88 is truly seeking. I'm not trying to speak for him, just accumulating information from all his threads. Again, just MY INTERPRETATION:

• Max $11,000 budget, but prefers $10,600 or less.
• F+ color but prefers D or E color.
• VS2+ clarity and probably prefers VS1+ clarity.
• 1.40 carats+ regardless of actual dimensions. I think psychologically he likes the way it sounds vs a 1.25ct or 1.30ct even if the dimensions are the same or so close there is no visual difference. FYI, don't mean this offensively or negatively, just where I think he is.
• GIA XXX or better, but no preference for super ideals as that would take away from his other criteria.
• Prefers none to faint fluor, but he seems likely to sacrifice to achieve other qualities.
• Prefers a good upgrade policy, but he is willing to sacrifice to achieve other qualities.

Unless he corrects the above criteria or new diamonds hit the market or someone finds a source we haven't already combed, I feel the Yadav is the closest to meeting all his criteria as we will get.

Those are my exact thoughts. I apologize if I've been all over the place over color/clarity/ct/cut but like most I'm learning on the fly of both what my gf's friends think she wants and also what attributes make a diamond perform the best.

The main reason I joined this wonderful forum is to seek some guidance and understand my priorities which @sledge has nailed in the above post. If I knew exactly what diamond I would want, I wouldn't be asking for everyone's help here. And everyone has been amazing with all the feedback I've been receiving so I definitely appreciate it.

FWIW I don't think the Yadav is a particularly special or spectacular stone... it simply seems to meet Steve's priorities at a good price if upgrade policies and fluor are acceptable, as Sledge already mentioned. I started writing this earlier but got sidetracked, may as well post it. This is re. the Yadav stone.

This stone is quite obviously no near-H&A, and the price reflects that. From a strictly practical perspective the precision-cutting that yields H&A (the hearts and arrows are happy side-effects, not the goals) serves two purposes:
1. A completely symmetric arrows pattern is something most PSers (though not all! In fact some explicitly prefer a less predictable pattern!) like to see when they look at their stones, and
2. Optical symmetry maximizes virtual facet size given any particular patterning. "Virtual facets" are the primary, secondary, and tertiary refractions that result from light paths through the stone once, again, again, etc. as light is reflected internally at the diamond/air bound, and with each internal reflection some energy is lost, meaning that the first refraction of a given ray is going to be the brightest and strongest. Fewer larger virtual facets permit more higher-energy outputs, and decrease odds of wavelength interference - you'll see more brightness and more coloured flashes. This is a nuance... to say the least.

If you get an IS for this stone, my expectation is that you'll see lighter red under the table - slightly less high-energy light return than other stones. In my personal opinion this is actually a good thing for this particular stone, given the obvious optical asymmetry but decently sized mains: brightness and fire, in the context of a single refraction, have a mutually-exclusive relationship - a single wavelength of an output dispersion is so low-energy compared to white light, it'll just be drowned out. Since this stone is a D there's really nothing to worry about regarding quantity of white light return, so sacrificing a little of it to make room for more colour isn't a bad thing! I am hugely oversimplifying... but probably good enough for now Read here for more:
https://www.pricescope.com/journal/do_pavilion_mains_drive_light_return_modern_round_brilliant
http://www.agslab.com/spie/spie_lo_res.pdf

Also, I like the fact that it's a D for you, besides the obvious cultural benefit. Whiter == brighter, and brighter == bigger. This is a known consideration with coloured gems, and it holds true for diamonds as well, though to much less extent! I've compared my (extremely well-cut) J RB to a (slightly-less-well-cut-but-still-very-well-cut) E RB of exactly the same diameter, and the E looked bigger. I'd expected it, but I found myself surprised by it nonetheless... Of course, you aren't debating between a J and a D! But for you, trying to achieve a certain size, I like the idea of a D to maximize perception of available diameter.

Again, all of this is meaningless if vendor policies and/or fluor doesn't work for you.

Fluor definitely works for me as long as its in the medium grade and it won't have a hazy or milky effect on the stone (I will try to clarify that with the vendor later). In an ideal world, I'd be buying a 1.4ct D VS1 super ideal diamond but unfortunately I'm stuck with a strict budget and requirements from my gfs friends.

So even if the cut isn't near super ideal, as long as it is in the "good" grade I think I'm willing to accept that so I can get a color D and a clarity VS1 on paper.

 

[sledge]

Those are my exact thoughts. I apologize if I've been all over the place over color/clarity/ct/cut but like most I'm learning on the fly of both what my gf's friends think she wants and also what attributes make a diamond perform the best.

The main reason I joined this wonderful forum is to seek some guidance and understand my priorities which @sledge has nailed in the above post. If I knew exactly what diamond I would want, I wouldn't be asking for everyone's help here. And everyone has been amazing with all the feedback I've been receiving so I definitely appreciate it.



Fluor definitely works for me as long as its in the medium grade and it won't have a hazy or milky effect on the stone (I will try to clarify that with the vendor later). In an ideal world, I'd be buying a 1.4ct D VS1 super ideal diamond but unfortunately I'm stuck with a strict budget and requirements from my gfs friends.

So even if the cut isn't near super ideal, as long as it is in the "good" grade I think I'm willing to accept that so I can get a color D and a clarity VS1 on paper.

Glad to hear I got it right.

And no need to apologize. It's not uncommon to come here thinking you want one thing and leave with a new set of criteria. While your difficulty has been with the diamond, mine was picking a setting for my girl. Many here can attest to the countless options they tossed my way and I rejected for one reason or another.

Many times I often wonder if they like the custom setting I ended up with just so they wouldn't have to hear me whine about "what do you think about this setting".

Whatever the reason, they have been very supportive in my journey. Hopefully myself, and and the others, can be supportive in your journey as well and help you reach a decision that fits YOU perfectly.

 

[Steve88]

Glad to hear I got it right.

And no need to apologize. It's not uncommon to come here thinking you want one thing and leave with a new set of criteria. While your difficulty has been with the diamond, mine was picking a setting for my girl. Many here can attest to the countless options they tossed my way and I rejected for one reason or another.

Many times I often wonder if they like the custom setting I ended up with just so they wouldn't have to hear me whine about "what do you think about this setting".

Whatever the reason, they have been very supportive in my journey. Hopefully myself, and and the others, can be supportive in your journey as well and help you reach a decision that fits YOU perfectly.

Thanks for the kind words. I just got off the phone with the vendor and they will request an Idealscope and ASET image from their distributor from China(is this normal?)

 

[rockysalamander]

Thanks for the kind words. I just got off the phone with the vendor and they will request an Idealscope and ASET image from their distributor from China(is this normal?)

Totally normal. Yadov does not own the stone. The stone is in the hands of the owner, aka wholesaler. Did Yadov put it on hold for you to?

 

[sledge]

Totally normal. Yadov does not own the stone. The stone is in the hands of the owner, aka wholesaler. Did Yadov put it on hold for you to?

Absolutely normal. This is what "virtual inventory" means -- a supplier/wholesaler holds the diamonds and makes them available to retailers such as Yadav, FourMines, etc. As such, you sometimes see the same identical diamond advertised on multiple sites.

FYI, if you can find the same diamond listed at multiple sites, then you can choose which vendor you like the best or has policies, etc. that is more favorable. Also, many times some retailers are able to get images that other retailers cannot because of their unique relationship with various suppliers.

And anytime multiple vendors are offering the same product for sale, they are also likely to have varying ASK prices. Most have a price match policy so you can always contact them and say, "hey, vendor B has a lower price on this identical stone and I want you to meet or beat it or I will just buy from them". When the diamond is truly identical then the company has no unique product to offer you, and they must compete on price so this puts the leverage in your favor to negotiate a better deal.

FWIW, I didn't see it listed elsewhere -- already looked, lol. But others may have better sleuth skills than me.

As @rockysalamander pointed out, you need to make sure you place a hold on this diamond while they obtain images, etc. so someone doesn't buy your stone from underneath you.

 

[yssie]

And, with the clarity of half an hour and some coffee, @icy_jade please accept my apology for our earlier exchange. I disagreed with something you wrote, but I could certainly have been less acidic in my response - afraid I’m another who sometimes forgets that PS really isn’t the real world!

Your contributions on RT are valued! You have a different perspective than many regulars’ - we’ve had a few rather similar threads recently and they’ve all been interesting studies in cultural priorities. Hope you stick around

 

[lagirlie]

I am Asian and I wouldn't feel ashamed to wear an H VS stone. Yeah, if I had a lot of $$$ money then I'll be rocking an F VS1 stone.

Man - This thread is tooo real lol.

I'm asian, but I'm marrying a white guy and grew up in a predominately white area so I think my views of diamonds are different. My mom/aunts are total snobs and only believe in really high quality stones and would prefer a tiny stone to a lower quality larger stone. I wanted a bigger stone (as I have huge fingers - size 7-7.5) so I gave up clarity and color. I know I'm going to hear ALOOOOOOOT of shit from my family, but i don't really give a F lol.

I totally get the pressure @Steve88 is going through to pleasing asian friends/family/parents. If you guys haven't lived it -- ya'll don't know the asian guilt and standards we have to live up to.

 

[sledge]

Man - This thread is tooo real lol.

I'm asian, but I'm marrying a white guy and grew up in a predominately white area so I think my views of diamonds are different. My mom/aunts are total snobs and only believe in really high quality stones and would prefer a tiny stone to a lower quality larger stone. I wanted a bigger stone (as I have huge fingers - size 7-7.5) so I gave up clarity and color. I know I'm going to hear ALOOOOOOOT of shit from my family, but i don't really give a F lol.

I totally get the pressure @Steve88 is going through to pleasing asian friends/family/parents. If you guys haven't lived it -- ya'll don't know the asian guilt and standards we have to live up to.

LOL, this cracked me up on multiple levels. Needed the smile today, thanks!

 

[Steve88]

Man - This thread is tooo real lol.

I'm asian, but I'm marrying a white guy and grew up in a predominately white area so I think my views of diamonds are different. My mom/aunts are total snobs and only believe in really high quality stones and would prefer a tiny stone to a lower quality larger stone. I wanted a bigger stone (as I have huge fingers - size 7-7.5) so I gave up clarity and color. I know I'm going to hear ALOOOOOOOT of shit from my family, but i don't really give a F lol.

I totally get the pressure @Steve88 is going through to pleasing asian friends/family/parents. If you guys haven't lived it -- ya'll don't know the asian guilt and standards we have to live up to.

I like to think that my gfs asian family/friend circle isn't as bad. I've seen some social circles that are pretty extreme.

I called Yadav and they don't do holds for some reason. They said it might take a day for them to get the ASET idealscope images. The rep tried to talk me in to buying it without the images and that its a beautifully clean stone. Either way i'd feel better looking at the images before i purchase blindly.

 

[yssie]

I like to think that my gfs asian family/friend circle isn't as bad. I've seen some social circles that are pretty extreme.

I called Yadav and they don't do holds for some reason. They said it might take a day for them to get the ASET idealscope images. The rep tried to talk me in to buying it without the images and that its a beautifully clean stone. Either way i'd feel better looking at the images before i purchase blindly.

If you lose this stone in the day and change it will apparently take to get more information... there will be others. Unfortunately this is just part of buying from the virtual inventory - many vendors have access to the same stones, and the services offered to end-consumers depend hugely on the relationship between vendor and manufacturer. it's one of the reasons even different drop-shippers can price the same stones differently - some get "first dibs" on certain manufacturers' goods, some have long buying histories and are able to get stones out on memo, etc.

 

[Steve88]

i found the same diamond on parcel & stones. Has anyone heard of this site??

 

[Steve88]

so this new site said they would price match. They have no ASET or idealscope images. Return policy is 60 days which is amazing and 110% of the diamond can be used towards upgrades without any limitations. As long as the new diamond is at least $1 more expensive

 

[yssie]

Don't know anything about them.

https://www.parcelandstone.com/warranties-and-guarantees/
Very generous return period

1. They'll "price match" by giving you the difference in store credit
2. You have to wait a year to upgrade

 

[Steve88]

Yeah they told me they’ll match the price if I wire it over. The website is almost identical to fourmine.com. Is it okay that all these websites are so identical?!