With the help of everyone here, final choice between these 2!

[Dancing Fire]

- No for BGD as it is H color and with fluoro. H is low color (by Asian culture) and fluoro you had mentioned is also considered a no-no.

People are being brainwashed about fluor stones. FYI, about 40 yrs ago a stone with fluor would fetch more $$$ than a non fluor stone.

 

[LLJsmom]

I’m very Asian and had that same “Asian” attitude about diamonds. But I found PS and I got older and I grew up. So after six years of diamond obsession I have found what I really want. Just me. No one else. It has been and will be an expensive lesson. I encourage you and your fiancé to figure out what you both really want, and as best you can, to do that in a bubble. It’s not easy and it will require mental toughness. You know what I mean. Good luck.

 

[Babyblue033]

I encourage you and your fiancé to figure out what you both really want, and as best you can, to do that in a bubble. It’s not easy and it will require mental toughness. You know what I mean. Good luck.

+1

@Steve88 are you trying to surprise her or opposed to including her in this decision? If not, it might lighten the load for you if she tells you what is important to HER. If it matches what her friends have been telling you, at least you'll know you're making these decisions for HER sake. Or she might surprise you and not care about the same things as her friends. Then you two can be rebels together and there is something romantic about that too

 

[Steve88]

+1

@Steve88 are you trying to surprise her or opposed to including her in this decision? If not, it might lighten the load for you if she tells you what is important to HER. If it matches what her friends have been telling you, at least you'll know you're making these decisions for HER sake. Or she might surprise you and not care about the same things as her friends. Then you two can be rebels together and there is something romantic about that too

I’m tempted everyday just to ask her what she would want but the ring and proposal will all be surprises. My plan is to give her an option AFTER I find a diamond that I think is worth getting. After the proposal I can give her an option to keep the G-H diamond with a much bigger CT weight vs. a smaller super ideal cut with better color grades such as the diamonds from BGD, WF and VC. My gut feeling is that she’ll just appreciate all this effort to finding her a diamond and she’ll love whichever diamond I do get for her. And like everyone here has been saying, her friends won’t have to know any of the specifications of the diamonds. My future fiancé and I can enjoy whichever one that makes her happy.

With all that said, it’s been a big circle but I think I’ll decide between the original 1.4 IF H diamond with the fluoro or the 1.45 VVS2 H with no fluoro. After I make the decision, if she wants a much smaller diamond with better color and super ideal cut, I’ll show her all the WF, BGD, and VC diamonds that you guys chose out for me!

 

[Steve88]

And by the way, I can’t thank everyone enough for actually taking time out of their days to help me choose a diamond. This is a wonderful forum and maybe my fiancé can join after we get engaged

I can’t wait until she reads this thread in the future and sees how much of a help everyone has been

 

[rockysalamander]

I'm not sure which diamonds, specifically, you are looking at anymore...

But, I think you decided to present her with a G/H and then give her the option to change for a E/F. As a note, you should consider the timing on this offer relative to the proposal. I'd maybe wait a few days. While I did not care for my engagement ring at all, and my now DH immediately said I could switch it unprompted, but I'd have felt ungrateful and materialistic if I did it at that moment. I waited a week and then floated the idea of using a diamond given to me by my grandmother. That said, I did not have hoards of family and friends looking at my ring right away as I was away at graduate school at the time.

Also, for your idea to work, you need the company you buy from to (1) have an upgrade policy that allows a small upgrade {not requires you spend 2x the cost you already paid like BlueNile or JamesAllen} and (2) have super-ideal diamonds in their inventory. For this to work, you'd also need to propose and float the idea of a swap within that vendors return period, because the upgrade policies apply to a diamond within their super-ideal lines. Though, WF certainly might be willing to give you a trade-in value for the diamond (it won't be 100% of the cost necessarily).

Of the super-ideal vendors we often recommend, that would narrow you down to Whiteflash and maybe VC.

Eliminate -- Brian Gavin as they require you upgrade 2 of 3 (color, clarity, size) -- upgrade, not downgrade, which you might do to switch to a super-ideal of high color/clarity IF you keep budget the same.

Maybe -- VC primarily sells his own diamonds, but may have access to the same wholesaler as the big websites. HPD only sellls CBI diamonds, but Wink might have options for accepting non-CBI as a trade-in, I'd ask.

Therefore, posting these (which is likely a duplicate from one of these thread }
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3950139.htm; 1.4 G SI1, no flour, 7.15 mm!
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3995535.htm; 1.306 E SI1, medium blue flour; budget loving option
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4011140.htm; 1.285 G FS2, no flour

 

[yssie]

Also, for your idea to work, you need the company you buy from to (1) have an upgrade policy that allows a small upgrade {not requires you spend 2x the cost you already paid like BlueNile or JamesAllen} and (2) have super-ideal diamonds in their inventory. For this to work, you'd also need to propose and float the idea of a swap within that vendors return period, because the upgrade policies apply to a diamond within their super-ideal lines. Though, WF certainly might be willing to give you a trade-in value for the diamond (it won't be 100% of the cost necessarily).

I'll add to @rockysalamander's observations that

1. Unless you're planning on proposing with a loose stone, if she decides on a higher-colour smaller stone you'll have wasted the cost of a brand new setting (unless the mount head can be adjusted to compensate for the size difference).

2. Some women are sentimental about their engagement rings. Even if she'd rather the alternate stone, she might be unwilling to switch after the fact because she doesn't want to give up what you proposed to her with... leaving her with a ring that she's not entirely thrilled with. Only you know if she's this type of woman, but something to keep in mind.

 

[Steve88]

I'm not sure which diamonds, specifically, you are looking at anymore...

But, I think you decided to present her with a G/H and then give her the option to change for a E/F. As a note, you should consider the timing on this offer relative to the proposal. I'd maybe wait a few days. While I did not care for my engagement ring at all, and my now DH immediately said I could switch it unprompted, but I'd have felt ungrateful and materialistic if I did it at that moment. I waited a week and then floated the idea of using a diamond given to me by my grandmother. That said, I did not have hoards of family and friends looking at my ring right away as I was away at graduate school at the time.

Also, for your idea to work, you need the company you buy from to (1) have an upgrade policy that allows a small upgrade {not requires you spend 2x the cost you already paid like BlueNile or JamesAllen} and (2) have super-ideal diamonds in their inventory. For this to work, you'd also need to propose and float the idea of a swap within that vendors return period, because the upgrade policies apply to a diamond within their super-ideal lines. Though, WF certainly might be willing to give you a trade-in value for the diamond (it won't be 100% of the cost necessarily).

Of the super-ideal vendors we often recommend, that would narrow you down to Whiteflash and maybe VC.

Eliminate -- Brian Gavin as they require you upgrade 2 of 3 (color, clarity, size) -- upgrade, not downgrade, which you might do to switch to a super-ideal of high color/clarity IF you keep budget the same.

Maybe -- VC primarily sells his own diamonds, but may have access to the same wholesaler as the big websites. HPD only sellls CBI diamonds, but Wink might have options for accepting non-CBI as a trade-in, I'd ask.

Therefore, posting these (which is likely a duplicate from one of these thread }
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3950139.htm; 1.4 G SI1, no flour, 7.15 mm!
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3995535.htm; 1.306 E SI1, medium blue flour; budget loving option
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4011140.htm; 1.285 G FS2, no flour

Well the sceneraio would be that most online vendors gives me a 30 day window to refund or exchange so I would use that window to ask her if she wants to exchange the diamond!

Also none of those diamonds are coming up every one of those links clicked tells me that the diamond is sold.

I'll add to @rockysalamander's observations that

1. Unless you're planning on proposing with a loose stone, if she decides on a higher-colour smaller stone you'll have wasted the cost of a brand new setting (unless the mount head can be adjusted to compensate for the size difference).

2. Some women are sentimental about their engagement rings. Even if she'd rather the alternate stone, she might be unwilling to switch after the fact because she doesn't want to give up what you proposed to her with... leaving her with a ring that she's not entirely thrilled with. Only you know if she's this type of woman, but something to keep in mind.

Yeah it’s really a tough situation for me. I still have one more week to ponder about it so I guess I can try to get as much info from you guys as I can but ultimately the decision would be up to me.

 

[Steve88]

https://www.adiamor.com/Diamonds/1....gn=201807&utm_source=rarecarat&utm_medium=cpc

1.35 vs2 E. Smaller carat but much better color. Comes with strong fluoro though

https://www.fourmine.com/diamonds/index/diamonddetail/id/1443982

1.45 H VVS2 NO fluoro (leaning towards this one at the moment)

https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD10661812

The diamond that started this whole thread.
1.40 H IF strong fluoro

 

[rockysalamander]

.

WF's website is having a bad moment. Go to the main page. Use the search and type in the long number in the URL, they are all still there (e.g.,3950139).

You can confirm with the online chat person. If available, 3950139 is in the same size range you wanted, G color, no flour, and eye-clean. It would also be a super easy swap within the engagement period or any time in the future.

 

[Steve88]

I'm not sure which diamonds, specifically, you are looking at anymore...

But, I think you decided to present her with a G/H and then give her the option to change for a E/F. As a note, you should consider the timing on this offer relative to the proposal. I'd maybe wait a few days. While I did not care for my engagement ring at all, and my now DH immediately said I could switch it unprompted, but I'd have felt ungrateful and materialistic if I did it at that moment. I waited a week and then floated the idea of using a diamond given to me by my grandmother. That said, I did not have hoards of family and friends looking at my ring right away as I was away at graduate school at the time.

Also, for your idea to work, you need the company you buy from to (1) have an upgrade policy that allows a small upgrade {not requires you spend 2x the cost you already paid like BlueNile or JamesAllen} and (2) have super-ideal diamonds in their inventory. For this to work, you'd also need to propose and float the idea of a swap within that vendors return period, because the upgrade policies apply to a diamond within their super-ideal lines. Though, WF certainly might be willing to give you a trade-in value for the diamond (it won't be 100% of the cost necessarily).

Of the super-ideal vendors we often recommend, that would narrow you down to Whiteflash and maybe VC.

Eliminate -- Brian Gavin as they require you upgrade 2 of 3 (color, clarity, size) -- upgrade, not downgrade, which you might do to switch to a super-ideal of high color/clarity IF you keep budget the same.

Maybe -- VC primarily sells his own diamonds, but may have access to the same wholesaler as the big websites. HPD only sellls CBI diamonds, but Wink might have options for accepting non-CBI as a trade-in, I'd ask.

Therefore, posting these (which is likely a duplicate from one of these thread }
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3950139.htm; 1.4 G SI1, no flour, 7.15 mm!
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3995535.htm; 1.306 E SI1, medium blue flour; budget loving option
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4011140.htm; 1.285 G FS2, no flour

I know everyone recommends WF here but I have a quick question.

Since this one in particular is not an “above all cut” signature diamond from WF, is there a big drop off from let’s say,

https://www.adiamor.com/Diamonds/1....gn=201807&utm_source=rarecarat&utm_medium=cpc

Which is the same color, higher clarity and higher carat. The fluoro is one grade higher.

So besides the vendor policies, is their a reason WF would be preferred? Is it because WF has a reputation for picking out diamonds that have great performance as opposed to a lesser suggested site such as fourmine?

Thanks!

Edited with correct link

 

[sledge]

Good = GIA XXX (Adiamor stone)
Better = AGS Ideal 0
Best = AGS Super Ideal 000 (WF ACA's)

FYI, Adiamor stone has STRONG fluor.

My 2 cents, either commit fully to the stone or propose differently. You could pop the question with a ribbon, lollipop ring, etc or go all 50 Shades and do no ring at all.

You can have the setting and TWO diamonds pre-selected. She chooses the one she wants and prefers. They mount and ship to you.

You have the surprise, and she has what she wants without feeling guilty about trading stones and you don't have the headache of returns, different vendors, etc.

 

[rockysalamander]

I know everyone recommends WF here but I have a quick question.

Since this one in particular is not an “above all cut” signature diamond from WF, is there a big drop off from let’s say,

https://www.adiamor.com/Diamonds/1....gn=201807&utm_source=rarecarat&utm_medium=cpc

Which is the same color, higher clarity and higher carat. The fluoro is one grade higher.

So besides the vendor policies, is their a reason WF would be preferred? Is it because WF has a reputation for picking out diamonds that have great performance as opposed to a lesser suggested site such as fourmine?

Thanks!

Edited with correct link

I recommended WF because it was a great diamond, but also because it would vastly simplify the whole trade-in concept and you would not be on a 30-day clock. You could work with a single vendor and their upgrade policy would allow you to go from that inhouse diamond that is Expert Select to their ACA if you wish. I have a long history here of recommending every other vendor you've posted (and some you have not) when they have the best diamond for the poster's needs. But, you do you.

The adiamor diamond does not have good angles. I rarely, if ever, recommend a 33 crown angle to folks buying modern round. When you look at all the angles, this diamond will tend to have the risk of obstruction (going dark when viewed closely) and could lack fire. It also is strong blue flour which, may cause an issue with the appearance of the diamond, unless a gemologist can clear the stone. This effect of seeing "blue" can be more pronounced, all else being equal, in high color stones which is why strong blue is more of a discount on high color than low. At least in my experience with helping American-based Chinese and Japanese buyers, visible flour is undesirable. To my eyes, the inclusions on the Adiamor stone are visible from the top than the WF one (while the WF one is more visible from the side).

These are measurements to help you stay in ideal cut territory with a GIA excellent cut stone.
table: 52-57.5 (but I really prefer under 57)
depth: 60-62.3 (consider 59.5)
crown angle: 34-35.0 (up to 35.5 crown angle can sometimes work with a 40.6 pav angle)
pavilion angle: 40.6-40.9 (sometimes 41.0 if the crown angle is close to 34)
Lower girdle facets between 75 – 80%
Star facets between 40 – 58%
Girdle thickness between thin and slightly thick
Culet: AGS pointed or GIA none

One other consideration is to be sure to consider her cultural traditions and expectations, which may be quite different than yours. I helped a Danish friend find a E VVS2 radiant cut diamond for his girl. He was sure she would love the clean straight lines to go along with her modern style. He was horrified to find out later than sharp corners were considered a bad omen in her culture. Fortunately, the jeweler was very kind and we swapped it for a very nice E VS2 round.

 

[Steve88]

https://www.yadavjewelry.com/diamon...om&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=rarecarat

Thoughts? @sledge @rockysalamander @icy_jade

 

[rockysalamander]

https://www.yadavjewelry.com/diamon...om&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=rarecarat

Thoughts? @sledge @rockysalamander @icy_jade

Good angles, very clean. Can they provide an ASET and H&A image?

 

[Steve88]

Good angles, very clean. Can they provide an ASET and H&A image?

Requested. trying to get diamond on hold

 

[sledge]

Good angles, very clean. Can they provide an ASET and H&A image?

Ditto.

Not sure if you anyone noticed but this is a D color stone with medium fluor. If you agree with @rockysalamander about not mixing low colors (D/E/F) with fluor, then you may want to skip on this particular stone.

 

[Steve88]

Ditto.

Not sure if you anyone noticed but this is a D color stone with medium fluor. If you agree with @rockysalamander about not mixing low colors (D/E/F) with fluor, then you may want to skip on this particular stone.

I think with my budget this is probably the best I can do. 1.4 ct is a very good size (compared to her friends rings) and the color is the highest I can possibly get. Also the clarity is very good for a VS1

 

[sledge]

I think with my budget this is probably the best I can do. 1.4 ct is a very good size (compared to her friends rings) and the color is the highest I can possibly get. Also the clarity is very good for a VS1

Understand.

I noticed you seem very concerned about carat weight. As previously mentioned, you should look at dimensions more than weight. Remember, anything less than 0.20mm difference is very hard to detect with the human eye.

The Yadav stone measures 7.08 x 7.14.

Here is a WF ACA stone that measures 6.93 x 6.95. And below is a screen cap showing the sizes of these two stones next to each other.

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2708999.htm

One item of interest....the diamdb.com website is stating the 1.40ct is too deep, meaning it may not be as well cut and that extra carat weight was "hidden" in the depth so they could charge more money. ASET and IS images will either confirm or deny.

Either way, this site is useful for comparing sizes. I'd encourage you to try to use it:

https://www.diamdb.com/compare/1.4ct-round-7.08x7.14x4.45-vs-1.25ct-round-6.93x6.95x4.27/

 

[Dancing Fire]

https://www.yadavjewelry.com/diamon...om&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=rarecarat

Thoughts? @sledge @rockysalamander @icy_jade

IMO, 62.7% is cut too deep. you are losing diameters.

 

[sledge]

IMO, 62.7% is cut too deep. you are losing diameters.

Yup, see my above post. Assuming he gets the images, I suspect this will show up negatively in those images.

 

[Steve88]

IMO, 62.7% is cut too deep. you are losing diameters.

Yup, see my above post. Assuming he gets the images, I suspect this will show up negatively in those images.

What are the negative effects of diamonds cut too deep?

 

[icy_jade]

Pls read this
https://www.pricescope.com/journal/laboratory_cut_grades_what_report_doesn’t_show

The ones recommended are generally well cut.

 

[Steve88]

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3995535.htm

Thoughts? So if I understand correctly, any ACA, expert selection diamond from white flash is available for 100 pct credit to any future diamond purchased from WF?

 

[Steve88]

IMO, 62.7% is cut too deep. you are losing diameters.

So I’ve read the links and I’m assuming 62.5 is probably the cutoff for the depth. Question is, will a .2% depth difference be that noticeable? I understand it might be slightly deeper and even to hide some carat weight, I feel like it’s something that can be compromised since the diamond will look good on paper. (High color grade, pretty clean clarity and a decent fluoro grade)

 

[icy_jade]

Do you want a diamond that looks good on paper or one that really looks good? It is your call.

My personal opinion is no for that diamond but ultimately it is your choice.

 

[Steve88]

Do you want a diamond that looks good on paper or one that really looks good? It is your call.

My personal opinion is no for that diamond but ultimately it is your choice.

Thanks

 

[sledge]

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3995535.htm

Thoughts? So if I understand correctly, any ACA, expert selection diamond from white flash is available for 100 pct credit to any future diamond purchased from WF?

Short answer is yes. All ACA, premium and expert selection diamonds are included in WF's superb upgrade program.

Per below, the only constraint is the future diamond must be minimum of EQUAL value, or greater, to what you originally purchased. No other restrictions.

In short, you won't find better. Given your situation I personally believe this is a HUGE value add. Just my 2 cents though.

https://www.whiteflash.com/confidence/lifetime-trade-up-guarantee/

So I’ve read the links and I’m assuming 62.5 is probably the cutoff for the depth. Question is, will a .2% depth difference be that noticeable? I understand it might be slightly deeper and even to hide some carat weight, I feel like it’s something that can be compromised since the diamond will look good on paper. (High color grade, pretty clean clarity and a decent fluorosis grade)

Making relatively small angle and percentage changes can drastically affect the cut. We don't really know how much of an effect yet. But we know there is a potential issue. If you get ASET and IS images we can tell you more.

The issue is it's very unlikely you will get either image and even less likely you will get an ASET. It's the way virtual inventory works. This is why I like working with vendors that provide all that. It let's you take minimal risk when buying and to have more certainty in what you are buying.

Imagine a world where certs didn't tell you it was a D VS1. Instead you had information that says very white and eye clean or better. This means color could be D-H and clarity could be SI1-IF. You had to have a special image ficticously called the COLCLAR image that confirmed the exact color and clarity. With that image you KNEW one stone was a D VS1 and another was an H SI1. This information would obviously make you prefer a certain stone and pay more for the qualities you value most.

That is exactly how an ASET works. The angles and percentages gives us a RANGE but the ASET confirms the true cut grade of the stone. A small change makes a big difference and without an image you are buying blind and taking risk.

Now if cut is of little concern then who cares? Buy the one with the largest size, best color and clarity prioritizing the characteristics that matter most to you and/or your girl.

Most here tend to value stones with ideal cuts so we are somewhat biased to what is best. We adjust to the buyers preferences while trying to maximize cut. That said when depth is out of whack, a red flag goes up.

 

[Steve88]

Short answer is yes. All ACA, premium and expert selection diamonds are included in WF's superb upgrade program.

Per below, the only constraint is the future diamond must be minimum of EQUAL value, or greater, to what you originally purchased. No other restrictions.

In short, you won't find better. Given your situation I personally believe this is a HUGE value add. Just my 2 cents though.

https://www.whiteflash.com/confidence/lifetime-trade-up-guarantee/




Making relatively small angle and percentage changes can drastically affect the cut. We don't really know how much of an effect yet. But we know there is a potential issue. If you get ASET and IS images we can tell you more.

The issue is it's very unlikely you will get either image and even less likely you will get an ASET. It's the way virtual inventory works. This is why I like working with vendors that provide all that. It let's you take minimal risk when buying and to have more certainty in what you are buying.

Imagine a world where certs didn't tell you it was a D VS1. Instead you had information that says very white and eye clean or better. This means color could be D-H and clarity could be SI1-IF. You had to have a special image ficticously called the COLCLAR image that confirmed the exact color and clarity. With that image you KNEW one stone was a D VS1 and another was an H SI1. This information would obviously make you prefer a certain stone and pay more for the qualities you value most.

That is exactly how an ASET works. The angles and percentages gives us a RANGE but the ASET confirms the true cut grade of the stone. A small change makes a big difference and without an image you are buying blind and taking risk.

Now if cut is of little concern then who cares? Buy the one with the largest size, best color and clarity prioritizing the characteristics that matter most to you and/or your girl.

Most here tend to value stones with ideal cuts so we are somewhat biased to what is best. We adjust to the buyers preferences while trying to maximize cut. That said when depth is out of whack, a red flag goes up.

Makes total sense

 

[icy_jade]

Ok how about this

1.33 E VS2 HCA0.9 $11,002 7.08x7.10x4.33 mm
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4011080.htm