Will you get the Covid 19 Booster vaccine when it is available to you?
- Thread starter missy
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Friday’s San Francisco Chronicle has an opinion p which argues that most of us don’t need booster shots, and it’s more important for everybody’s sake (including ours) to get the available doses out to the rest of the world. I’m afraid I don’t have the ability to cut and paste on my cell phone, but here are some excerpts:
[The author starts by laying out a scientific rationale based on how vaccines work and how our body develops memory cells that produce the antibodies needed and that can adapt to address new strains of the virus.]
“ This is one reason why most of us won’t need a third booster shot to be protected from variance. Memory B cells, once generated, are long lasting. A 2008 Nature study found that survivors of the 1918 influenza pandemic were able to produce antibodies from memory B cells when exposed to the same influenza strain nine decades later.
T cell immunity generated by the vaccines protects us even further. Data from La Jolla Immunology Institute and UCSF show that the T cell response from the Pfizer vaccine is strong across all the variance. Think of the spike proteins that Covid latches onto as being comprised of 100 houses a T cell covers each house to protect you against severe disease the Delta variant has 13 mutations along the spike proteins so 13 of those T cells won’t work. But there are still 87 T cells remaining to protect your “houses” against severe disease. This is why most immunologist do not think there will be a variant that can evade the robust response of our T cells.”
The whole article can be found here. The Chronicle has a very low pay wall – which I have already hit - but I think you can read at least one article per month: https://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion...ans-we-may-never-eradicate-COVID-16429343.php
I will acknowledge that the author, who is an infectious disease doctor and professor of medicine, has been controversial in that some other experts considered her projections about how Covid will become normalized as being too optimistic. I don’t have the knowledge or background to be able to evaluate her scientific explanation, but I am planning to reach out to a friend who probably does. I’ll let you know what he says.
[The author starts by laying out a scientific rationale based on how vaccines work and how our body develops memory cells that produce the antibodies needed and that can adapt to address new strains of the virus.]
“ This is one reason why most of us won’t need a third booster shot to be protected from variance. Memory B cells, once generated, are long lasting. A 2008 Nature study found that survivors of the 1918 influenza pandemic were able to produce antibodies from memory B cells when exposed to the same influenza strain nine decades later.
T cell immunity generated by the vaccines protects us even further. Data from La Jolla Immunology Institute and UCSF show that the T cell response from the Pfizer vaccine is strong across all the variance. Think of the spike proteins that Covid latches onto as being comprised of 100 houses a T cell covers each house to protect you against severe disease the Delta variant has 13 mutations along the spike proteins so 13 of those T cells won’t work. But there are still 87 T cells remaining to protect your “houses” against severe disease. This is why most immunologist do not think there will be a variant that can evade the robust response of our T cells.”
The whole article can be found here. The Chronicle has a very low pay wall – which I have already hit - but I think you can read at least one article per month: https://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion...ans-we-may-never-eradicate-COVID-16429343.php
I will acknowledge that the author, who is an infectious disease doctor and professor of medicine, has been controversial in that some other experts considered her projections about how Covid will become normalized as being too optimistic. I don’t have the knowledge or background to be able to evaluate her scientific explanation, but I am planning to reach out to a friend who probably does. I’ll let you know what he says.
wildcat03
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MamaBee - was thinking of you today. My friend said she got a third dose at CVS. She just walked into Target and asked about a dose. Was told they were thawing vials and could take her in 20 minutes. Was given paperwork to fill out and honestly answered "no" when it asked if she was immunocompromised. Pharmacy tech/pharmacist did not even look at her answer, gave her a third dose.
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He did not but I know the reason he said that. There are many other factors that go into protection so antibodies are just one aspect and over time they decrease and the other factors are more critical. I wrote a long post about it somewhere. We’re cycling now but later I’ll find it for you.
MamaBee
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@wildcat03 I made another appt for Tuesday in Target at the CVS. I also checked the box that I wasn’t immunocompromised. It booked it anyway!!! If I get the shot on Tuesday I will cancel the one on Wednesday. I’ll wait another week and make an appointment for my son. My husband won’t do it..Thank you!
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So here’s what my friend, who is a professor in biophysics and molecular biology, had to say:
1) worldwide immunization is necessary to stop the generation of new variants, and we’re making progress on that front;
2) booster shots will increase an individual’s immunity; and
3) he will get the booster shot when it’s available (and approved for him/his situation - he is not immunocompromised).
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Immunological mechanisms of vaccine-induced protection against COVID-19 in humans - Nature Reviews Immunology
This Progress article summarizes our current understanding of the immune mechanisms of protection induced by the available COVID-19 vaccines. The authors compare vaccine-induced antibody responses following one or two doses of different vaccines and consider the relative importance of...
www.nature.com
@MamaBee FYI
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I have received the booster dose and had only a sore arm. It of course worries me that a third moderna shot didn't have any side effects but I am grateful my Dr made sure me and all his patients who qualify were covered.
Too many lives have been taken too soon already. I am so grateful for the vaccines
Too many lives have been taken too soon already. I am so grateful for the vaccines
MamaBee
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Immunological mechanisms of vaccine-induced protection against COVID-19 in humans - Nature Reviews Immunology
This Progress article summarizes our current understanding of the immune mechanisms of protection induced by the available COVID-19 vaccines. The authors compare vaccine-induced antibody responses following one or two doses of different vaccines and consider the relative importance of...
@MamaBee FYI
Thank you @missy! I went to my portal to look up my white blood count. It doesn’t break it down...I was wondering if having more white cells means I have more lymphocytes…haha I’m middle of the road in white blood cells..I would love to see what they would be two weeks after the third vaccine. Of course I know nothing about this stuff...That’s good to know lower antibodies doesn’t mean your body isn’t going to fight off covid…There are other fighters like T and B cells. I hope I get another reaction to the third one…if they give it to me. I know It doesn’t really matter…but being 67 I want to know my immune system is recognizing the vaccine…Just ignore me..
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@tkyasx78 I’m happy you and your family got the third vaccine…You don’t need a reaction. I‘ve been told that by my doctor..It’s working…
I hope it is!
None of my family members have had the 3rd shot yet. They don't have immunosuppressive issues that would qualify.
I have several high risk family members but they have to wait as right now since advanced age and most chronic illnesses are not recommended for a booster at this time.
Although I am pretty sure that once they qualify they will all get their shot.
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Updated info regarding boosters.
"How much protection might boosters provide? Data from more than one million people in Israel who had been fully vaccinated with the Pfizer vaccine 5 to 6 ½ months earlier showed that those who received a booster dose of Pfizer had only 9% the risk of infection and 9.7% the risk of severe illness as those who did not receive a booster dose, when measured 12 to 23 days after the booster (Bar-On, medRxiv 2021 — preprint). Similarly, other data from Israel found that the odds of testing positive for COVID-19 was 79% lower 2 to 3 weeks after receiving a booster dose compared to not receiving it (based on people ages 40 and older). There was no reduction in the risk of testing positive during the first week after the booster dose, and there was only modest benefit at 1 to 2 weeks after the booster dose, suggesting that it may take at least 2 weeks for greatest benefit (Patalon, medRxiv 2021 – preprint)."
"Why 8 (or possibly 6) months? Research shows that the vaccines protect against severe infection and hospitalization through six months, but there is evidence that efficacy against infection may begin to decline at around six months after the second dose — although having a longer duration between vaccine doses may help provide stronger and more persistent immunoprotection, as it gives the immune system time to mature (i.e., improve the quality of antibodies). According to the COVID-19 Response Team, "eight months after the second dose" is not a "magical" number, but rather was chosen after reviewing published evidence and trends in declining efficacy observed in other countries, and using their own and other expert clinical judgement. On August 26, 2021, the Wall Street Journal reported that, according to an unnamed official, the doses might be given as early as six months after the second dose (this was not confirmed by the White House or the FDA)."
"
Adverse events and safety monitoring
mRNA vaccines:
Adults:
Based on adverse reports from several million vaccinations in the U.S. through mid-January, 2021 the safety profiles of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines in people 16 and older are consistent with the safety profiles observed during the pre-authorization clinical trials (CDC, COVID-19 Vaccine Safety Update 2021). As noted in the table above, the most common side effects for these mRNA vaccines have included injection site pain, fatigue, headache, muscle pain, chills, joint pain, fever and nausea / vomiting. In rare cases, severe allergic reactions have occurred."
"No deaths due to vaccine-related myocarditis have been reported to safety surveillance systems in the U.S. among adolescents and young adults (ages 16 to 29) (Rosenblum, ACIP Meeting 8/30/21). Several cases of fatality possibly due to vaccine-related myocarditis have been reported among adults in Europe and New Zealand, but in all cases the individuals were elderly or had concomitant diseases (European Medicines Agency, 7/9/21)."
"Numerous health organizations, including the American Academy of Pediatrics and the American Heart Association, have jointly stated, "We strongly encourage everyone age 12 and older who are eligible to receive the vaccine under Emergency Use Authorization to get vaccinated, as the benefits of vaccination far outweigh any harm
"
"How much protection might boosters provide? Data from more than one million people in Israel who had been fully vaccinated with the Pfizer vaccine 5 to 6 ½ months earlier showed that those who received a booster dose of Pfizer had only 9% the risk of infection and 9.7% the risk of severe illness as those who did not receive a booster dose, when measured 12 to 23 days after the booster (Bar-On, medRxiv 2021 — preprint). Similarly, other data from Israel found that the odds of testing positive for COVID-19 was 79% lower 2 to 3 weeks after receiving a booster dose compared to not receiving it (based on people ages 40 and older). There was no reduction in the risk of testing positive during the first week after the booster dose, and there was only modest benefit at 1 to 2 weeks after the booster dose, suggesting that it may take at least 2 weeks for greatest benefit (Patalon, medRxiv 2021 – preprint)."
"Why 8 (or possibly 6) months? Research shows that the vaccines protect against severe infection and hospitalization through six months, but there is evidence that efficacy against infection may begin to decline at around six months after the second dose — although having a longer duration between vaccine doses may help provide stronger and more persistent immunoprotection, as it gives the immune system time to mature (i.e., improve the quality of antibodies). According to the COVID-19 Response Team, "eight months after the second dose" is not a "magical" number, but rather was chosen after reviewing published evidence and trends in declining efficacy observed in other countries, and using their own and other expert clinical judgement. On August 26, 2021, the Wall Street Journal reported that, according to an unnamed official, the doses might be given as early as six months after the second dose (this was not confirmed by the White House or the FDA)."
"
Adverse events and safety monitoring
mRNA vaccines:
Adults:
Based on adverse reports from several million vaccinations in the U.S. through mid-January, 2021 the safety profiles of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines in people 16 and older are consistent with the safety profiles observed during the pre-authorization clinical trials (CDC, COVID-19 Vaccine Safety Update 2021). As noted in the table above, the most common side effects for these mRNA vaccines have included injection site pain, fatigue, headache, muscle pain, chills, joint pain, fever and nausea / vomiting. In rare cases, severe allergic reactions have occurred."
"No deaths due to vaccine-related myocarditis have been reported to safety surveillance systems in the U.S. among adolescents and young adults (ages 16 to 29) (Rosenblum, ACIP Meeting 8/30/21). Several cases of fatality possibly due to vaccine-related myocarditis have been reported among adults in Europe and New Zealand, but in all cases the individuals were elderly or had concomitant diseases (European Medicines Agency, 7/9/21)."
"Numerous health organizations, including the American Academy of Pediatrics and the American Heart Association, have jointly stated, "We strongly encourage everyone age 12 and older who are eligible to receive the vaccine under Emergency Use Authorization to get vaccinated, as the benefits of vaccination far outweigh any harm
"
mommylawyer
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Yes, I'm hoping to get the Pfizer booster in November or December. My original vaccination (two doses) was AZ. The article below doesn't relate to boosters, but I know someone who got an AZ blood clot, and I am hesitant to go down that road again. (I am a middle-aged female, so higher risk for blood clots.)
www.pharmaceutical-technology.com
Covid-19 vaccine mixing: has AZ/Pfizer emerged as a winning combo? - Pharmaceutical Technology
Recent studies have suggested a mix-and-match approach to vaccine dosing could induce a better immune response.
www.pharmaceutical-technology.com
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A few of my friends had already got their 3rd shots. They don't care you just walk in and they'll give you the jab. I think companies like CVS will be reimbursed $60 per jab from our government.
musicloveranthony
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I have heard the same - that many pharmacies are giving them no questions asked. I'm not sure where they're getting that direction, but
ksluice
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In Canada here: Husband had AZ first and Moderna 2nd, In laws has Pfizer first and Moderna 2nd, I was double Pfizer. While all of that is part of Health Authority data, no one is really tracking (at least in BC)—so lots of mixing, and perhaps it will create a measurable blip in the stats regarding overall rates of infection among the fully vaccinated, but unfortunately nothing precise. The stuff I read suggested the best mix was a viral vector + MRNA (or vice versa). If they were tracking better BC would be a great place to study the effect of mixed MRNA because the Health Authority started viewing them as interchangeable.
As to a 3rd shot, you betcha. Like you Missy, I had a terrible time with my 2nd, but it lasted for just about 15 hours, and I view it as a sign my immune system is pumped for Delta (I know that’s not how it works but its my attempt to make lemonade.)
MamaBee
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@wildcat03 I received my #3 Moderna shot today! I didn’t have to lie..The only think I had to do was stretch the truth a little when the tech asked me if my doctor wanted me to get the third vaccine. She didn’t know..but if she knew I wanted it she would be okay with it. I didn’t say I was immunocompromised..I said I had an immune disorder..She asked me which one…Instead of saying Graves which she might know I said Basedow’s disease. It sounded more serious. I was surprised she asked so many questions. I thought because of HIPAA they weren’t supposed to ask.
I hope your husband did well with his third Pfizer. Did he get a reaction?
I hope your husband did well with his third Pfizer. Did he get a reaction?
MamaBee
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I have heard the same - that many pharmacies are giving them no questions asked. I'm not sure where they're getting that direction, but
@musicloveranthony I got asked a bunch of questions..I was surprised because everyone here except for @AprilBaby got it without answering questions.
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wildcat03
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So glad you got it!!
Husband felt a little tired and achey starting about 26 hours after his shot. That was 5 pm. By the next morning he felt fine. Didn't take anything for his symptoms. He had the same reaction and same timeline with his second shot.
I really would like my third Moderna but given the intensity of my symptoms with dose 2 and the fact that I am caring for a newborn (and nursing round the clock) I'm hoping that the booster dose of 50 mcg gets approved. If not I will probably wait until just before I go back to work in November with the hope that baby will be sleeping slightly longer stretches (a girl can dream).
MamaBee
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Thank you @wildcat03..I’m happy your husband did well with his third vaccine. I can see why you would hesitate getting yours now if they keep the full dose…Taking care of a newborn, nursing, with a strong reaction to the vaccine wouldn’t work..
I love newborn babies….I always felt like a zombie from lack of sleep though. I walked into a doorframe in the middle of the night with my last one. He never slept. He’s an adult now who would sleep all day if he could!
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I’m so glad you got the shot @MamaBee.
My brother got the third shot. His doctor didn’t really give him an option. He told he needed it and he was getting it. Within two minutes of this conversation he had the shot. I’m so relieved he has it.
My brother got the third shot. His doctor didn’t really give him an option. He told he needed it and he was getting it. Within two minutes of this conversation he had the shot. I’m so relieved he has it.
MamaBee
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MamaBee
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