Will you get the Coronavirus vaccine?

[barbie86]

I have a theory. Not a very scientific one but it's a theory.

I think you are either strong or you're not. So in this sense Covid will either kill you or you'll sail through without symptoms. I think it's the same with a vaccine. They've tested it and although we don't know what the true long term side effects will be you'll either be fine or it'll strike you down with some sinister side effect. I guess I feel like at this point it's all down to how tough you are built anyway so I may as well get the vaccine and run around guilt free. Bank on my tough third world genes to get me through.

It's a calculated risk imo and someone has to take it.

That isn't quite how it works though. You might recover from the illness but have adverse reactions to the vaccine.

The problem at the moment is we don't know; the vaccine is in very early stages.

I know for a fact I have and will recover from COVID 19. That does NOT mean that I will have no adverse reactions to the vaccine. No-one knows that at the moment. Because it has not undergone long term testing.

I do agree it's a calculated risk. I think the people who get the vaccine will come into these categories:

A) have underlying conditions that out them more at risk of death from Covid
B) live with people in the above category
C) have had and recovered from Covid and do not have underlying health conditions that could make an untested vaccine risky

 

[maryjane04]

I have a theory. Not a very scientific one but it's a theory.

I think you are either strong or you're not. So in this sense Covid will either kill you or you'll sail through without symptoms. I think it's the same with a vaccine. They've tested it and although we don't know what the true long term side effects will be you'll either be fine or it'll strike you down with some sinister side effect. I guess I feel like at this point it's all down to how tough you are built anyway so I may as well get the vaccine and run around guilt free. Bank on my tough third world genes to get me through.

It's a calculated risk imo and someone has to take it.

It is really interesting to hear what is happening around the world. In Australia - all the deaths are from the elderly 80+ ish years. Infections can happen in younger people and they do get hospitalised, however I don't think there were any young (under 50) that have died? I have heard stories on PS about people that they know that were healthy before covid, got it and died and they were young too. I guess you just never know. The virus is unknown and some people experience side effects even months after they have recovered from the virus. That would be my concern with any vaccine that we might not be as "protected" as we may think. Getting the vaccine does not make us immune to covid, maybe it might lessen the symptoms.

 

[barbie86]

The UK made the initial deal with Pfizer in July and made a deal with Moderna as well. Since the spring, governments around the world have entered into agreements with various pharmaceutical companies (often more than one) to ensure they have access ASAP rather than having to wait in line. Canada has contracts in place with both Moderna and Pfizer, along with many other pharmaceutical companies.

Thanks for clarifying/explaining. That makes (some) sense.

 

[YadaYadaYada]

@winnietucker, so sorry for all your grandmother has gone through.

 

[inne]

I have a theory. Not a very scientific one but it's a theory.

I think you are either strong or you're not. So in this sense Covid will either kill you or you'll sail through without symptoms. I think it's the same with a vaccine. They've tested it and although we don't know what the true long term side effects will be you'll either be fine or it'll strike you down with some sinister side effect. I guess I feel like at this point it's all down to how tough you are built anyway so I may as well get the vaccine and run around guilt free. Bank on my tough third world genes to get me through.

It's a calculated risk imo and someone has to take it.

There are unfortunately many people who have not died from COVID, but who have been left with long-term health problems or who have very difficult and prolonged recoveries.

 

[barbie86]

It is really interesting to hear what is happening around the world. In Australia - all the deaths are from the elderly 80+ ish years. Infections can happen in younger people and they do get hospitalised, however I don't think there were any young (under 50) that have died? I have heard stories on PS about people that they know that were healthy before covid, got it and died and they were young too. I guess you just never know. The virus is unknown and some people experience side effects even months after they have recovered from the virus. That would be my concern with any vaccine that we might not be as "protected" as we may think. Getting the vaccine does not make us immune to covid, maybe it might lessen the symptoms.

In the UK, the average age of death from Covid 19 is 82.4.

Below that, it's over 70. And then the majority of people who have died have had underlying health conditions such as heart issues, diabetes, lung issues, and obesity.

Very few young, healthy people have died (if any; just because someone doesn't have a diagnosed underlying condition does not mean they don't have an underlying condition).

My concern with the vaccine is that it should NOT be forced on everyone. It should be treated the same as the flu vaccine, which, in the UK at least, only the elderly and people with certain conditions get.

 

[inne]

Thanks for clarifying/explaining. That makes (some) sense.

For smaller countries like ours, it's been so important to get in on it and basically place bets on who will succeed because we don't have the buying power of the US or even the UK - we need someone to promise us vaccines now before the US can come along with their billions of dollars and scoop it all up . Also, it is very unlikely that there will be one vaccine that is the standard. The demand will be much, much too high to rely on a single product. Instead, you will likely see many different vaccines from many different companies because that's the most efficient way to manufacture and distribute in the short-term.

 

[barbie86]

There are unfortunately many people who have not died from COVID, but who have been left with long-term health problems or who have very difficult and prolonged recoveries.

I am sorry,but we do not know at this stage if that is the case.

I keep hearing about 'long Covid', the symptoms of which seem to mirror anxiety and depression eg fatigue.

I have not yet seen anything that suggests actual long term implications; I have heard about 'long term lung issues', but nothing that states that the people in question recently had a clear lung scan (ie were perfectly healthy before), etc.

You cannot add 2 and 2 and make 5.

 

[inne]

I am sorry,but we do not know at this stage if that is the case.

I keep hearing about 'long Covid', the symptoms of which seem to mirror anxiety and depression eg fatigue.

I have not yet seen anything that suggests actual long term implications; I have heard about 'long term lung issues', but nothing that states that the people in question recently had a clear lung scan (ie were perfectly healthy before), etc.

You cannot add 2 and 2 and make 5.

I know a number of people in their 30s and 40s who have never had any health issues and now they have severe, ongoing respiratory issues with imaging that shows significant lung damage 6+ months after initial diagnosis. People in their 30s and 40s typically do not have lung imaging done unless they already have an issue, so healthy people would of course not have any such images available. So it is illogical to say "nothing that states the people in question recently had a clear lung scan" when that's not something healthy people do in the first place.

 

[seaurchin]

I am sorry,but we do not know at this stage if that is the case.

I keep hearing about 'long Covid', the symptoms of which seem to mirror anxiety and depression eg fatigue.

I have not yet seen anything that suggests actual long term implications; I have heard about 'long term lung issues', but nothing that states that the people in question recently had a clear lung scan (ie were perfectly healthy before), etc.

You cannot add 2 and 2 and make 5.

There is quite a bit of solid, scientific information available about long term implications of Covid-19, etc. Below are relevant links from the Mayo Clinic, CDC and World Health Organization, for starters.

COVID-19: Long-term effects

Learn about the possible long-term effects of COVID-19.

www.mayoclinic.org

COVID-19 and Your Health

Symptoms, testing, what to do if sick, daily activities, and more.

www.cdc.gov

Coronavirus disease (COVID-19)

WHO is continuously monitoring and responding to this pandemic. This questions and answers page will be updated as more is known about COVID-19, how it spreads and how it is affecting people worldwide. For more information, regularly check the WHO coronavirus pages. https://www.who.int/covid-19

www.who.int

 

[barbie86]

There is quite a bit of solid, scientific information available about long term implications of Covid-19, etc. Below are relevant links from the Mayo Clinic, CDC and World Health Organization, for starters.

COVID-19: Long-term effects

Learn about the possible long-term effects of COVID-19.

www.mayoclinic.org

COVID-19 and Your Health

Symptoms, testing, what to do if sick, daily activities, and more.

www.cdc.gov

Coronavirus disease (COVID-19)

WHO is continuously monitoring and responding to this pandemic. This questions and answers page will be updated as more is known about COVID-19, how it spreads and how it is affecting people worldwide. For more information, regularly check the WHO coronavirus pages. https://www.who.int/covid-19

www.who.int

I have read these 'studies' before. They do NOT prove causation.

First, most of the symptoms mentioned are the symptoms of depression and anxiety, both of which are massively on the up since the start of the pandemic.

Second, the studies of the heart/lungs etc: this is meaningless. The people most likely to suffer with any illness like this long term are those with underlying issues. Unless these same people had a study done a year ago showing their lungs/heart were in perfect condition, the fact that their lungs/heart are not now in perfect condition is meaningless.

 

[seaurchin]

Thanks, but I will continue to heed the advice of top scientists and physicians, regardless of your personal opinions.

 

[Matata]

You cannot add 2 and 2 and make 5.

That's what you're doing when you dismiss fact in a cavalier fashion. Just because you think you had it twice and emerged with seemingly no lasting effect doesn't negate the results of scientific study and it trivializes the suffering of some PS members and their loved ones who are long haulers.

 

[inne]

I also wanted to add that having an underlying condition is super common and it's not like it just doesn't matter if that person dies or suffers. Do you have a friend who has asthma? A friend with diabetes? A family member who is a bit overweight? A co-worker with high blood pressure? All underlying conditions. That is SO many people, probably including many of the people you love. And maybe even you.

It feels quite minimizing when people say "young, healthy people don't die from it/suffer long-term effects" because 1) that is not true and 2) people who aren't young and healthy still matter.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

That's fair enough.

I personally have little faith in the UK government as they have given huge contracts to people who have not delivered, because said people pay into the Tory coffers. So as it stands at the moment, I am suspicious that they have bought 40m vaccines that are only 90% effective, and that have crazy strict storage regs making them super hard to store and then administer, when if they had waited like 5 days they could have got something better..

That to me smacks of politics, and not the best interests of the people.

i feel very bad for peopld who live in counties who have been called by their elected leaders
without getting political i do in no way shape or forn like our government but thankfully they do listen to their advisers - the same advisors who would be advising my lot if we were in power

here we have gone with an elimination policy, our lock down was much harsher than Australia or the UK.
it has effected the economy but probably no more so than other countries economies have suffered
Personally my priority is to protect our old and vaunarable

but we esperately now need seasonal workers for agriculture and horticulture work
but its next to impossible to get workers in accross the boarder unless they are film crew working for Peter Jackson or that Cameron bloke that made the Titanic
a vacine would help our farmers and growers contribute fully to the economic stability of this nation by just being able to get food from the feild to the markets
now our dear neighbours are offering the few overseas workers we still have here $2K to go to pick their crops
never mind the desimated tourism sector
but as is most days our 4 new cases of covid 19 today are in managed isolation coming in through the boarder
if we want to continue to pursue a policy if elimination to keep our old and vaunarable safe we have to keep covid out at all costs

sorry for the dribbly post

 

[barbie86]

That's what you're doing when you dismiss fact in a cavalier fashion. Just because you think you had it twice and emerged with seemingly no lasting effect doesn't negate the results of scientific study and it trivializes the suffering of some PS members and their loved ones who are long haulers.

I don't mean to be cavalier.

Re scientific studies, can you link some? Because the ones linked above are not scientific and don't prove anything.

 

[seaurchin]

I don't mean to be cavalier.

Re scientific studies, can you link some? Because the ones linked above are not scientific and don't prove anything.

Since you are the one making unfounded claims and feel you know more than the scientists at the CDC, Mayo Clinic and World Health Organization and that their statements are somehow not based on science, why don't YOU provide links to scientific studies?

 

[inne]

I have read these 'studies' before. They do NOT prove causation.

First, most of the symptoms mentioned are the symptoms of depression and anxiety, both of which are massively on the up since the start of the pandemic.

Second, the studies of the heart/lungs etc: this is meaningless. The people most likely to suffer with any illness like this long term are those with underlying issues. Unless these same people had a study done a year ago showing their lungs/heart were in perfect condition, the fact that their lungs/heart are not now in perfect condition is meaningless.

You are setting up an impossible burden of proof rather than looking at logic. You can't say "this person had COVID, had no prior history of respiratory complaints, and now exhibits significant lung damage after a severe respiratory illness . But she didn't have totally pointless imaging done last year for no reason, so I guess it's all a mystery!"

 

[barbie86]

Since you are the one making unfounded claims and feel you know more than the experts at the CDC, Mayo Clinic and World Health Organization, why don't YOU provide links to scientific studies?

I read the articles.

They stated that people had 'reoprted' certain symptoms. Which can be attributed to anything.

The imaging scans are only worthwhile if there is a before and after: a scan 3 months after having tested positive means absolutely nothing unless you have a scan when the same patient tested negative, to compare it to.

 

[seaurchin]

I read the articles.

They stated that people had 'reoprted' certain symptoms. Which can be attributed to anything.

The imaging scans are only worthwhile if there is a before and after: a scan 3 months after having tested positive means absolutely nothing unless you have a scan when the same patient tested negative, to compare it to.

Please, contact the Centers for Disease Control, Mayo Clinic and World Health Organization at once and inform them of their errors!

ETA: I'm sorry but I'm gonna have to block you for now. I just can't...

 

[Matata]

Re scientific studies, can you link some?

Symptom Duration and Risk Factors for Delayed Return to Usual Health Among Outpatients with COVID-19 in a Multistate Health Care Systems Network — United States, March–June 2020

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Persistent Symptoms in Patients After Acute COVID-19 - PubMed

This case series describes COVID-19 symptoms persisting a mean of 60 days after onset among Italian patients previously discharged from COVID-19 hospitalization.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[inne]

Lung scans are absolutely not only worthwhile if there is a before and after. Do you get regular lung scans done because future imagining will be worthless without them? I certainly don't.

This article may interest you:

The lasting misery of coronavirus long-haulers

Months after infection with SARS-CoV-2, some people are still battling crushing fatigue, lung damage and other symptoms of ‘long COVID’.

www.nature.com

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

i think in the short to medium term if you don't want the vacine don't get it

but those of us who live with people with risk factors and want the vacine, we are more than happy to have your dose

Gary has not been able to see his daughter with stage 4 cancer for months incase we somehow catch the viris and pass it on and it kills her
she lives in another city a few hours away and we are not prepared to risk it
how would we ever live with the guilt of depriving her own family of the time she has left with them

 

[Matata]

Here's the irony @barbie86. You have no proof you had covid, merely symptoms that are similar and you have an underlying condition that may have been the cause of those symptoms and yet you don't want to get the vaccine because you're concerned it may negatively affect you due to your underlying condition yet have no data upon which to base your assumptions.

 

[123ducklings]

Second, the studies of the heart/lungs etc: this is meaningless. The people most likely to suffer with any illness like this long term are those with underlying issues. Unless these same people had a study done a year ago showing their lungs/heart were in perfect condition, the fact that their lungs/heart are not now in perfect condition is meaningless.

Huh? Why would people with perfectly healthy hearts and lungs have gotten scans?

This seems like a really odd and honestly almost abusive requirement/approach to medicine. Have you ever broken a bone? Had a chest cold? Any measurable health issue? If so your doctor would take a scan/X-ray/etc. and treat you based on that info. Are you saying you’d refuse treatment? I mean, maybe your arm was always like that ... you didn’t get a scan beforehand to prove your arm wasn’t always broken. Sure, you did just fall from a tree but that doesn’t PROVE anything. Right...?

 

[MakingTheGrade]

I’m a frontline doc, I’ve had antibodies drawn and were negative and I get screened every other week so I’ve never had it. I look forward to getting the vaccine because I’m at high risk of getting it and accidentally spreading it.

I have no hx of autoimmune issues, allergy issues, or bad reactions to vaccines, I’m decently familiar with the science behind the mRNA vaccines and am not concerned about getting vaccinated even though it’s been accelerated.

 

[Matata]

I’m a frontline doc,

Saying "thank you" is inadequate for expressing my respect for what you and your colleagues are facing while treating covid patients. My heart aches for all of you as you confront and try to surmount the myriad personal and professional challenges with which you must contend. Hugs and love.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

I’m a frontline doc, I’ve had antibodies drawn and were negative and I get screened every other week so I’ve never had it. I look forward to getting the vaccine because I’m at high risk of getting it and accidentally spreading it.

I have no hx of autoimmune issues, allergy issues, or bad reactions to vaccines, I’m decently familiar with the science behind the mRNA vaccines and am not concerned about getting vaccinated even though it’s been accelerated.

may you and your colleagues continue to stay safe and healthy while we wait for a vacine

thank you for getting up and going into work every day when i just find everything too scary and want to hide under the covers

 

[m-cubed]

Does it not concern you at all that it is relatively untested?

NB: this is a genuine question: not criticizing or trying to start a debate, just curious.

Extensive safety analysis is being done and is required to be approved by the regulatory authorities. I am a scientist and I will be first in line. Vaccines work in two ways. They protect the individual if challenged by the agent (sometimes, but not always depending on the efficacy of the vaccine and your personal immune system) but they also stop spread of a disease when the vaccination rate in a community is high enough. There is a huge risk that anti-vaxxers will keep us below the threshold for the second part to happen, meaning more people will get sick and die. There will always be individuals for whom a vaccine is contraindicated, and your doctor can advise you that. But people who choose not to get a COVID vaccine without a true contraindication (for example, allergy to a vaccine component) will contribute to continued spread of the disease. It’s our job to get the vaccine to protect not only ourselves, but those who truly cannot.

 

[m-cubed]

That's fair enough.

I personally have little faith in the UK government as they have given huge contracts to people who have not delivered, because said people pay into the Tory coffers. So as it stands at the moment, I am suspicious that they have bought 40m vaccines that are only 90% effective, and that have crazy strict storage regs making them super hard to store and then administer, when if they had waited like 5 days they could have got something better..

That to me smacks of politics, and not the best interests of the people.

90% effective is actually amazing and better than the bar the regulatory authorities set (which was 50%). The crazy strict storage regulations are because these are RNA vaccines.