will Obama be a good President?

[MoonWater]

Date: 9/5/2008 9:49:37 AM
Author: IndyGirl22

Date: 9/5/2008 9:46:03 AM
Author: MoonWater
this may have been said before but did anyone notice the huge blaring contradiction/conflict of interest going on during the RNC? are they stupid or do they just think we are? how can they rant and rave about change (really, couldn't they be a bit more original) when they had the White House for the last 8 years and until recently, had Congress? how can you fix the problems in Washington while supporting the guy and Administration that was part of said problem? How can you diss Bush and praise him at the same time?

i dun git it.

Because they believe, as those who will vote for McCain do, that having the same party in the White House doesn't necessarily mean you will have the same administration. Some people don't vote for the party, but the person. I must say it is a great strategy for Obama to attack McCain through Bush...slamming Bush and then equating McCain with Bush is a nicer way of doing things.

And remember, Democrats had the congressional majority...

I think you should re-read my post re: Congress.

In regard to the rest I don't think you understood my point. McCain isn't very well liked by his party and his party loves Bush. No one dares diss the Bush Administration, in fact they want his support and approval, but at the same time, they complain about the problems in Washington. They refuse to acknowledge that Bush was a large part of that problem. How do you diss and praise Bush at the same time? This has absolutely nothing to do with claiming that one Repub Administration is the sum of the party. I get why you would elect another Republican after one bad one. But I do not get indirectly dissing said Republican as a means to say you are different, while at the same time, not being out about it because you fear pissing those off that love him. They want to have their cake and eat it too.

 

[meresal]

Date: 9/5/2008 10:04:02 AM
Author: MoonWater

I think you should re-read my post re: Congress.

In regard to the rest I don''t think you understood my point. McCain isn''t very well liked by his party and his party loves Bush. No one dares diss the Bush Administration, in fact they want his support and approval, but at the same time, they complain about the problems in Washington. They refuse to acknowledge that Bush was a large part of that problem. How do you diss and praise Bush at the same time? This has absolutely nothing to do with claiming that one Repub Administration is the sum of the party. I get why you would elect another Republican after one bad one. But I do not get dissing said Republican as a means to say you are different, while at the same time, not being out about it because you fear pissing those off that love him. They want to have their cake and eat it too.

I''m not sure I follow... where do you get this idea?

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 9/5/2008 10:10:24 AM
Author: meresal

Date: 9/5/2008 10:04:02 AM
Author: MoonWater

I think you should re-read my post re: Congress.

In regard to the rest I don't think you understood my point. McCain isn't very well liked by his party and his party loves Bush. No one dares diss the Bush Administration, in fact they want his support and approval, but at the same time, they complain about the problems in Washington. They refuse to acknowledge that Bush was a large part of that problem. How do you diss and praise Bush at the same time? This has absolutely nothing to do with claiming that one Repub Administration is the sum of the party. I get why you would elect another Republican after one bad one. But I do not get dissing said Republican as a means to say you are different, while at the same time, not being out about it because you fear pissing those off that love him. They want to have their cake and eat it too.

I'm not sure I follow... where do you get this idea?

I don't get it either...people who aren't well liked by their parties don't usually get their presidential nominations?

I actually only heard Bush's name mentioned a couple of times in ALL of the candidate's speeches, so I don't think they were "dissing" him or praising him all that much. You can say things are wrong with the country without pointing the finger at one person in particular; just like you can say "Washington is broken" but pick one of the oldest members of Washington to be your VP (i.e. Biden).

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 9/5/2008 10:10:24 AM
Author: meresal

Date: 9/5/2008 10:04:02 AM
Author: MoonWater

I think you should re-read my post re: Congress.

In regard to the rest I don''t think you understood my point. McCain isn''t very well liked by his party and his party loves Bush. No one dares diss the Bush Administration, in fact they want his support and approval, but at the same time, they complain about the problems in Washington. They refuse to acknowledge that Bush was a large part of that problem. How do you diss and praise Bush at the same time? This has absolutely nothing to do with claiming that one Repub Administration is the sum of the party. I get why you would elect another Republican after one bad one. But I do not get dissing said Republican as a means to say you are different, while at the same time, not being out about it because you fear pissing those off that love him. They want to have their cake and eat it too.

I''m not sure I follow... where do you get this idea?

From nearly every Republican news outlet I read pre and during his run for President. The Bush lovers don''t tend to like McCain. I think it has something to do with him being a Maverick, his decision to be really open about the things he didn''t like about the Bush Administration. That''s why the poor guy had to be seen kissing up to Bush and the religious right (who seem to adore Bush).

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 9/5/2008 10:13:56 AM
Author: IndyGirl22

Date: 9/5/2008 10:10:24 AM
Author: meresal

Date: 9/5/2008 10:04:02 AM
Author: MoonWater

I think you should re-read my post re: Congress.

In regard to the rest I don''t think you understood my point. McCain isn''t very well liked by his party and his party loves Bush. No one dares diss the Bush Administration, in fact they want his support and approval, but at the same time, they complain about the problems in Washington. They refuse to acknowledge that Bush was a large part of that problem. How do you diss and praise Bush at the same time? This has absolutely nothing to do with claiming that one Repub Administration is the sum of the party. I get why you would elect another Republican after one bad one. But I do not get dissing said Republican as a means to say you are different, while at the same time, not being out about it because you fear pissing those off that love him. They want to have their cake and eat it too.

I''m not sure I follow... where do you get this idea?

I don''t get it either...people who aren''t well liked by their parties don''t usually get their presidential nominations?

I actually only heard Bush''s name mentioned a couple of times in ALL of the candidate''s speeches, so I don''t think they were ''dissing'' him or praising him all that much. You can say things are wrong with the country without pointing the finger at one person in particular; just like you can say ''Washington is broken'' but still work with members of Washington (i.e. Biden).

You guys really never heard of McCain''s bad blood with the Republican party?

Oh and I wasn''t talking about name dropping Bush, you don''t exactly need to do that. But complaining about the direction of the country, and how you need to change it, while seeking the support of the man who ran the Administration that helped to propel the country in that direction is...well...quite simply...a contradiction.

 

[meresal]

Date: 9/5/2008 10:14:17 AM
Author: MoonWater

Date: 9/5/2008 10:10:24 AM
Author: meresal

Date: 9/5/2008 10:04:02 AM
Author: MoonWater

I think you should re-read my post re: Congress.

In regard to the rest I don''t think you understood my point. McCain isn''t very well liked by his party and his party loves Bush. No one dares diss the Bush Administration, in fact they want his support and approval, but at the same time, they complain about the problems in Washington. They refuse to acknowledge that Bush was a large part of that problem. How do you diss and praise Bush at the same time? This has absolutely nothing to do with claiming that one Repub Administration is the sum of the party. I get why you would elect another Republican after one bad one. But I do not get dissing said Republican as a means to say you are different, while at the same time, not being out about it because you fear pissing those off that love him. They want to have their cake and eat it too.

I''m not sure I follow... where do you get this idea?

From nearly every Republican news outlet I read pre and during his run for President. The Bush lovers don''t tend to like McCain. I think it has something to do with him being a Maverick, his decision to be really open about the things he didn''t like about the Bush Administration. That''s why the poor guy had to be seen kissing up to Bush and the religious right (who seem to adore Bush).

This I understand, to a certain extent. They are different people/candidates, and much like the Dem''s our party has some VERY vocal people that prefer to stay as far right/left as possible. However, as a Rep, I can tell you that I was not a die hard Bush supporter (or Kerry for that matter), and I do actually like McCain. My parents are Bush supporters, always have been, and though McCain may be a little "left" for their taste, they still value his views as our party representative.

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 9/5/2008 10:18:22 AM
Author: MoonWater

Date: 9/5/2008 10:13:56 AM
Author: IndyGirl22

I don''t get it either...people who aren''t well liked by their parties don''t usually get their presidential nominations?

I actually only heard Bush''s name mentioned a couple of times in ALL of the candidate''s speeches, so I don''t think they were ''dissing'' him or praising him all that much. You can say things are wrong with the country without pointing the finger at one person in particular; just like you can say ''Washington is broken'' but still work with members of Washington (i.e. Biden).

You guys really never heard of McCain''s bad blood with the Republican party?

Oh and I wasn''t talking about name dropping Bush, you don''t exactly need to do that. But complaining about the direction of the country, and how you need to change it, while seeking the support of the man who ran the Administration that helped to propel the country in that direction is...well...quite simply...a contradiction.

I *have* heard of McCain speaking out against member of his party, and I think that''s a big reason *why* he was nominated as the presidential candidate for it. However, Republicans that wholly dislike McCain are certainly the minority and they will certainly not be voting for Obama. People don''t want the "traditional" Republican (if there is such a thing anymore) up there. I also don''t get where you saw that they were asking for Bush''s support...it''s obvious that they have been distancing themselves from him...BUT when a member of your party is currently in the White House you can''t hide it. I get what you''re saying, but to me it''s not a big deal. Like I said, Obama has done the same thing in his VP choice...criticizing old Washington then picking someone who embodies everything he criticized.

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 9/5/2008 10:24:37 AM
Author: IndyGirl22

Date: 9/5/2008 10:18:22 AM
Author: MoonWater

Date: 9/5/2008 10:13:56 AM
Author: IndyGirl22

I don''t get it either...people who aren''t well liked by their parties don''t usually get their presidential nominations?

I actually only heard Bush''s name mentioned a couple of times in ALL of the candidate''s speeches, so I don''t think they were ''dissing'' him or praising him all that much. You can say things are wrong with the country without pointing the finger at one person in particular; just like you can say ''Washington is broken'' but still work with members of Washington (i.e. Biden).

You guys really never heard of McCain''s bad blood with the Republican party?

Oh and I wasn''t talking about name dropping Bush, you don''t exactly need to do that. But complaining about the direction of the country, and how you need to change it, while seeking the support of the man who ran the Administration that helped to propel the country in that direction is...well...quite simply...a contradiction.

I *have* heard of McCain speaking out against member of his party, and I think that''s a big reason *why* he was nominated as the presidential candidate for it. However, Republicans that wholly dislike McCain are certainly the minority and they will certainly not be voting for Obama. People don''t want the ''traditional'' Republican (if there is such a thing anymore) up there. I also don''t get where you saw that they were asking for Bush''s support...it''s obvious that they have been distancing themselves from him...BUT when a member of your party is currently in the White House you can''t hide it. I get what you''re saying, but to me it''s not a big deal. Like I said, Obama has done the same thing in his VP choice...criticizing old Washington then picking someone who embodies everything he criticized.

Um ok. Actively seeking the support of the very Administration you had a problem with for years (lots of bad blood from 2000, I actually think McCain hates Bush and Rove to be honest), actively seeking the support of the religious right (because hey, they love Bush), flip flopping on views you seem to have held strongly in the past, because hey, you have to in order to get the full support of your party (sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do)....while running on a platform of reform of many if not all those things which are a result of those folks you actively sought the support of is still a blantant contradiction. And sorry, I don''t think Obama''s choice of an oldie in Washington compares.

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 9/5/2008 10:29:46 AM
Author: MoonWater

Um ok. Actively seeking the support of the very Administration you had a problem with for years (lots of bad blood from 2000, I actually think McCain hates Bush and Rove to be honest), actively seeking the support of the religious right (because hey, they love Bush), flip flopping on views you seem to have held strongly in the past, because hey, you have to in order to get the full support of your party (sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do)....while running on a platform of reform of many if not all those things which are a result of those folks you actively sought the support of is still a blantant contradiction. And sorry, I don''t think Obama''s choice of an oldie in Washington compares.

Okay obviously this discussion isn''t going anywhere...McCain didn''t need to hang Bush in effigy in order to criticize the current state of affairs of the nation. Candidates are supposed to actively seek support from as many people as will listen to them. It is obvious that many people who voted for Bush are going to be voting for McCain, so what good what it do for him to sit there and criticize Bush personally? That works for Obama because he is a Democrat and the majority of his supporters probably didn''t vote for Bush, but why would any candidate want to put any blame on their supporters for the state of the nation? I don''t get it...some say that they don''t want McCain because he doesn''t embrace "change" and some accuse him of "flipflopping." I''m pretty sure every single candidate has "flipflopped" on at least one issue.

Oh well...back to Obama since this is his thread. Of course you won''t have a problem with Obama''s choice because you support him, so not much discussion there, either...but that is a "contradiction" itself.

 

[MoonWater]

Your responses to me make me think you don't even undertand what I'm saying so I'm off it.

And just to fill you in, I blindly support no one (so feel free to keep that assumption to yourself). I don't have a problem with Obama's choice simply because I found it necessary. I think he could use the help of someone that has been around for a few years. I think he respects Biden. I do not think McCain respects or values the opinions (nor do I think he should) of those he HAD to seek in order to win. That is the difference.

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 9/5/2008 10:55:15 AM
Author: MoonWater
Your responses to me make me think you don't even undertand what I'm saying so I'm off it.

And just to fill you in, I blindly support no one (so feel free to keep that assumption to yourself). I don't have a problem with Obama's choice simply because I found it necessary. I think he could use the help of someone that has been around for a few years. I think he respects Biden. I do not think McCain respects or values the opinions (nor do I think he should) of those he HAD to seek in order to win. That is the difference.

I didn't say you "blindly support" anyone, so please don't put words in my mouth.

I just said that, as an Obama supporter, of course you will see "contradictions" in McCain but probably not agree when I point out analogous "contradictions" in Obama. I drew the comparison between McCain's ability to not slam Bush in order to criticize the state of the nation and Obama's ability to choose Biden as his VP and still criticize Washington because, like I said earlier, I don't think it's a big deal. It's politics and people have to work together, whether they like each other, have previously criticized each other, etc. or not. Spending a lot of time attacking one singular person (not even in the race) does not do anything to change the current state. I don't know Obama or McCain personally, but I venture to guess they both at least respect the opinions of those they doesn't agree with, especially if those people are voting for them.

 

[MoonWater]

bleh, this is getting boring...so i'll say this...

Obama choosing his VP whom he will have power over and who can help him accomplish his goals is nothing compared to courting a large group of people who's values you don't appear to share (and who you say you will fight against) because those people can attempt to hold you accountable and limit your power once you are in office. That is why I do not think they compare. Does it appear to be a contradiction on Obama's part, sure, does it compare to what McCain is doing/has done? No. Which is exactly what I stated from the get go.

And note, stating: "Of course you won't have a problem with Obama's choice because you support him" implies that I will support any of his choices simply because I support him...which is actually called "blind support" which is not what I do.

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 9/5/2008 11:22:15 AM
Author: MoonWater
bleh, this is getting boring...so i'll say this...

Obama choosing his VP whom he will have power over and who can help him accomplish his goals is nothing compared to courting a large group of people who's values you don't appear to share (and who you say you will fight against) because those people can attempt to hold you accountable and limit your power once you are in office. That is why I do not think they compare. Does it appear to be a contradiction on Obama's part, sure, does it compare to what McCain is doing/has done? No. Which is exactly what I stated from the get go.

And note, stating: 'Of course you won't have a problem with Obama's choice because you support him' implies that I will support any of his choices simply because I support him...which is actually called 'blind support' which is not what I do.

Once McCain's elected I don't think right-wing conservatives will dictate his decisions simply because he will already have had their votes - every president makes promises and gives speeches in front of different groups purporting to support their interests at the top of their list, but once they are elected don't do much to fulfill those promises. Once Obama's elected he will have Biden as his VP right there with him in the White House and Biden will actually have some direct power (especially if Obama dies), so yes, I agree that the two situations aren't identical, but they are at least analogous...with Biden having more power than the interest groups. We obviously just have differing opinion about this topic and won't be resolving them anytime soon...

You can read whatever you want into my words, it is obvious that you were offended in some way, so if you were offended by anything I said, I'm sorry. I already explained my post earlier, so if you are unwilling to accept that then there's not much else I care to do.

 

[MoonWater]

Heh, you assume I''m only talking about people that voted for McCain, i.e. mere citizens. I''m not.

As far as being offended, hardly, I just like to be clear on what I think and you made an assumption that was not accurate so I corrected it.

fin.

 

[Anna0499]

Moving on

...I'm surprised no one has talked about Obama's appearance on O'Reilly. I didn't watch it, but I was glad to read that he would go into Iran if necessary. It might help him out in the polls since a lot of people don't think we'll be "safe" in Obama's hands.

 

[TravelingGal]

Yanno....

I''ve been reading this and the other political threads for the last few days more actively, and I gotta say...it''s no fun.

I love hearing about others opinions and ideas, even when different from my own. But all of these threads seem to turn into "you don''t get it" and attacks on posters intelligence and character just based on the party they support. This goes for both Dems and Republicans.

I love snark with the best of ''em. But here, it just seems like everyone''s blood is boiling...or at least simmering under the surface. I understand political talk is often heated, and is probably way worse on other unmoderated forums, but is it possible to talk about this stuff without the defensive/offensive words when it comes to the POSTER and not the candidate?

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 9/5/2008 11:51:59 AM
Author: IndyGirl22
Moving on

...I''m surprised no one has talked about Obama''s appearance on O''Reilly. I didn''t watch it, but I was glad to read that he would go into Iran if necessary. It might help him out in the polls since a lot of people don''t think we''ll be ''safe'' in Obama''s hands.

I missed it! I''m going to look for it on youtube later today.

 

[LAJennifer]

Date: 9/5/2008 1:21:25 PM
Author: MoonWater

Date: 9/5/2008 11:51:59 AM
Author: IndyGirl22
Moving on

...I''m surprised no one has talked about Obama''s appearance on O''Reilly. I didn''t watch it, but I was glad to read that he would go into Iran if necessary. It might help him out in the polls since a lot of people don''t think we''ll be ''safe'' in Obama''s hands.

I missed it! I''m going to look for it on youtube later today.

The Obama interview will continue on O''Reilly through Wednesday of next week (a little bit every day) I think.

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 9/5/2008 1:36:59 PM
Author: LAJennifer

Date: 9/5/2008 1:21:25 PM
Author: MoonWater

Date: 9/5/2008 11:51:59 AM
Author: IndyGirl22
Moving on

...I'm surprised no one has talked about Obama's appearance on O'Reilly. I didn't watch it, but I was glad to read that he would go into Iran if necessary. It might help him out in the polls since a lot of people don't think we'll be 'safe' in Obama's hands.

I missed it! I'm going to look for it on youtube later today.

The Obama interview will continue on O'Reilly through Wednesday of next week (a little bit every day) I think.

I expected a little more...I don't know...heat in the interview lol One of those when an unstoppable force meets an immovable force type scenarios.

Oh well, I thought it was okay & it made me like Obama a little bit more, but hardly worth all the (media) hype (like most things).

 

[Hudson_Hawk]

Forget O''Reilly, I wish Tim Russert were still with us. I''d love to see BOTH candidates and VP picks at the table with Russert.

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 9/5/2008 1:52:29 PM
Author: Hudson_Hawk
Forget O''Reilly, I wish Tim Russert were still with us. I''d love to see BOTH candidates and VP picks at the table with Russert.

Agreed...the whole O''Reilly thing was just interesting given the timing of it and the history that Obama (and McCain) has had with FoxNews in general.

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 9/5/2008 1:36:59 PM
Author: LAJennifer

Date: 9/5/2008 1:21:25 PM
Author: MoonWater

Date: 9/5/2008 11:51:59 AM
Author: IndyGirl22
Moving on

...I''m surprised no one has talked about Obama''s appearance on O''Reilly. I didn''t watch it, but I was glad to read that he would go into Iran if necessary. It might help him out in the polls since a lot of people don''t think we''ll be ''safe'' in Obama''s hands.

I missed it! I''m going to look for it on youtube later today.

The Obama interview will continue on O''Reilly through Wednesday of next week (a little bit every day) I think.

Really? Why? Milking it for ratings? What''s going on with O''Reilly anyhow? My soon to be FIL was expressing some disappointment with him and he loved him for years. Is he becoming a liberal? LOL

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 9/5/2008 1:52:29 PM
Author: Hudson_Hawk
Forget O''Reilly, I wish Tim Russert were still with us. I''d love to see BOTH candidates and VP picks at the table with Russert.

*sigh* I wish. I really, really wish. I would LOVE to see Palin on Russert. He really would have enjoyed this election season.

 

[LAJennifer]

Date: 9/5/2008 3:45:53 PM
Author: MoonWater

Date: 9/5/2008 1:36:59 PM
Author: LAJennifer

Date: 9/5/2008 1:21:25 PM
Author: MoonWater

Date: 9/5/2008 11:51:59 AM
Author: IndyGirl22
Moving on

...I''m surprised no one has talked about Obama''s appearance on O''Reilly. I didn''t watch it, but I was glad to read that he would go into Iran if necessary. It might help him out in the polls since a lot of people don''t think we''ll be ''safe'' in Obama''s hands.

I missed it! I''m going to look for it on youtube later today.

The Obama interview will continue on O''Reilly through Wednesday of next week (a little bit every day) I think.

Really? Why? Milking it for ratings? What''s going on with O''Reilly anyhow? My soon to be FIL was expressing some disappointment with him and he loved him for years. Is he becoming a liberal? LOL

That would be my guess. I''ve never really watched his show - so I can''t say if he is becoming more liberal.

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 9/5/2008 3:45:53 PM
Author: MoonWater

Date: 9/5/2008 1:36:59 PM
Author: LAJennifer

The Obama interview will continue on O''Reilly through Wednesday of next week (a little bit every day) I think.

Really? Why? Milking it for ratings? What''s going on with O''Reilly anyhow? My soon to be FIL was expressing some disappointment with him and he loved him for years. Is he becoming a liberal? LOL

It''s my understanding that they will be showing different segments all week...but I''m not sure. I''m sure 90% of it has to do with ratings. O''Reilly isn''t getting more liberal, he just knows that having Obama on will boost his viewership & he always has on people he disagrees with.

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 9/5/2008 6:33:12 PM
Author: IndyGirl22

Date: 9/5/2008 3:45:53 PM

Author: MoonWater

Date: 9/5/2008 1:36:59 PM

Author: LAJennifer


The Obama interview will continue on O''Reilly through Wednesday of next week (a little bit every day) I think.

Really? Why? Milking it for ratings? What''s going on with O''Reilly anyhow? My soon to be FIL was expressing some disappointment with him and he loved him for years. Is he becoming a liberal? LOL

It''s my understanding that they will be showing different segments all week...but I''m not sure. I''m sure 90% of it has to do with ratings. O''Reilly isn''t getting more liberal, he just knows that having Obama on will boost his viewership & he always has on people he disagrees with.

Yeah, my question about him being liberal didn''t have anything to do with Obama being on the show (as I recall he''s been wanting him on the show for ages), it''s the fact that my future FIL has been talking poorly about him...thus I figure he must be turning into a liberal lol.

 

[trillionaire]

NYTimes on Presidents and economics

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/31/business/31view.html?_r=1&em&oref=slogin

 

[ksinger]

Date: 9/5/2008 7:35:14 PM
Author: trillionaire
NYTimes on Presidents and economics

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/31/business/31view.html?_r=1&em&oref=slogin

Yeah, the hub is chompin'' at the bit for that book.

 

[ladypirate]

Joe Biden in a speech today:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZaUDKejZ_g

 

[Anna0499]

Anyone know much about tax policy? I would like comments on this article, as I am not a economist. I was interested in reading it because it used a different approach to evaluating Obama''s tax plans...I''m not trying to bash his policies, so please no defensive replies.