Why does Dirtcheap have my diamond?

[SFDavey]

Oldminer: Nice post.

I found this thread ILLUMINATING altogether and skipped to the last page after reading a few at the beginning and Oldminer, you did a great job of helping me understand the online diamond business FAR greater than when I arrived.

Unfortunately, I am now more intimidated than ever about buying an online diamond...

 

[denverappraiser]

SFDavey,

oldminer is definately smarter than the average bear. He's certainly smarter than me.

It probably is worth your trouble to go back and read the entire thread. There is some good information buried in here. When you find it's time to buy a stone, post your questions and we'll do our best to make it painless.

Neil Beaty, GG ISA
Independent Appraisals in Denver
www.gemlab.us

 

[wonka27]

My opinion is there is something to be said for it being a little bit of a discomforting process...

...that discomfort is you working and analyzing trying to find the best diamond for your situation. Once you have it, you will feel great and know you did the work to make an informed purchase

 

[noobie]

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On 8/5/2004 4:45:18 PM SFDavey wrote:





Unfortunately, I am now more intimidated than ever about buying an online diamond...

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I don't think you need to be intimidated. In fact you should be less imtimidated and here's why:

1. You are not under the pressure of the store, the moment etc to make a decison. You can relax look at the picture specs etc and sleep on it (and ask all of the nice people here)

2. You usually get much more information on the diamond on-line then in most stores.

3. Most have very good money back policies

4. Most will let you view the stone at an independent appraiser without paying for it. There you can get a professional unbiased view.

5. You will get a competitive price.

6. You can send it to Oldminer or Rich S. if you're really intimidated for their view.

When Blue Nile first started, I said are they're crazy, I would never buy a diamond on-line.

I was a nervous as you four months ago. Since then, I've bought four. (actually 22 if you count the 18 little 2 pt melees

)

 

[Mara]

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On 8/5/2004 4:41:40 PM Banshee13 wrote:





What about Empire Diamond in NYC (www.dialadiamond).
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As with DCD...these guys probably get alot of people who shy away from them because of a name.

Not that this is relevant, but sometimes I tell Greg we should open up a donut shop and call it 'Icky Donuts' in order to compete with those others such as 'Best Donuts' and 'Great Donuts'. Is it just me or would I be expecting too much from my donuts to assume they'd be GREAT without the name assuring so?

 

[g7adrian]

I agree DCD is not a good name. I have bought from them, but would not dare to tell by financee where I bought it from simply because of the name. For her every detail related to engagement is a symbol, and what symbol whould be "dirt cheap"?




By the way, Jim was very honest and told me up front that he has the signature diamonds in stock, and the rest would be drop shipped without him touching them.

 

[g7adrian]

Since it is no secret that some diamonds are "virtual" and only some in stock (call them "signature"), now the issue is which ones are better? "signature" items incur higher costs to the vendor that will be reflected in a higher markup. Is the service of "seeing" the diamond by the vendor really worth it to the customer to pay the premium? Here is my opinion.




First, we need to know what kind of "signature" service we are actually paying for. It is easy to assume "signature" diamonds are rare and simply better than the rest, and that is certainly what the vendor would like us to think. But remember vendors are running businesses, and they will only invest their money in a diamond if it has higher yield. That is the only criterion. How do vendors select the diamonds to be kept in stock?




Some may bring diamonds based on excellent grading and proportion angles, and never refuse a diamond after seeing it, because it will look great anyways. The difference in look may be so slight with such good numbers that customer satisfaction is guarranteed. Why should we as educated customers pay for this service? Can a VS2 F with a HCA score of 2 be disappointing? Not likely. And in the unlikely event, we can return it.




Other vendors may praise themselves are so selective they return most of the candidates for "signature" after seeing them. The trick is that their candidates may be diamonds with not-so-great numbers and grading, that may look great, but most likely have a problem. For instance, most SI2's are probably not eye clean, but the vendor will retain only the eye clean SI2. In that case the vendor is really providing a service, because we do not have the luxury of sorting through many diamonds to get the better SI2. The premium is worth it, of course, if the diamond remains cheaper than a "virtual" SI1 with the same specs.




Another situation in which it may be worth it to buy the in-stock signature is if you want a hearts & arrows, and you cannot get this information on the "virtual" diamond. And if you cannot get the information, it is probably not an anonymous H&A. Then you have no choice but to pay the premium.




What if some day the warehouses will provide with their listing not only the grading report but also Sarin and brilliance scope and H&A, Firescope and inclusion pictures, and everything there is to know about a diamond? If they are a large wholesaler, they may invest in automating the diamond analysis, so that the analysis would be very cheap to them (due to scale economies). Then small vendors would bring no value by "seeing" the diamond, and there would be no point in buying "signature". They may still rely on small vendors for customer service, but they could raise wholesale prices on those SI2 that are actually eye clean, and those diamonds that are brilliant but do not seem so from the GIA report.


If I were a wholesaler, I would seriously consider such strategy.




Adrian

 

[SFDavey]

denver:

I already bought my first one! I am a lucky guy that has a guy that my friends and I all go through. I won't post his name, but we are all very happy with him. He gave me a great deal on a great rock in a simple "Tiffany style" solitaire setting. She has almost wrecked her care more than once staring at it while driving.

I have and will consider buying a stone online, FOR SURE, as I am a big proponent of good things happening with and through the internet. I will most definitely check out this site if it's still going strong.

Best Regards,
SFD

 

[msbennie]

I would love to buy everything at one location. However, when it comes to the setting, I'm somewhat partial to having a B&M primarily because they're here in town and I can actually see the process as it occurs, e.g. wax molding, etc. Even if the setting was not custom made, then I would have to send the diamond back after looking at it and getting it appraised. Personally, I just do not want to go through all of the trouble of mailing back and forth. So, to answer your question, I would buy the diamond on-line but get the setting at a B&M. However, it doesn't hurt to have that option on your site!

 

[wonka27]

I think, though, there are many consumers that want the diamond first to get it appraised. When I purchased the diamond for my g/f's e-ring, I wanted it loose in order to maximize the appraiser's ability to look at the diamond. Additionally, some vendors will not take back settings, or will give you a lesser value, if you decide to opt for money back. Finally, depending on pricing (knowing the thrifty shopper that I am), I would also want the opportunity to "shop around" for the best price on a setting.

That being said, it would still be smart to offer settings online to online buyers because many will still want them. There are those who will just have it set right away. I would be competitive with pricing relative to other online vendors and offer as much back on the setting if returned (given it is not a custom design). That would give the buyer more freedom and security when receiving the ring for inspection.

As for the virtual broker listing aspect, I say why not. While you have a large selection, and may have access to just about everything, it probably would make a buyer who has real specifics on what they are looking for feel great if they can search for that diamond on your site themselves. Yes, it can be a touchy situation if it is gone when you call it in, but I think it just adds another dimension to your business.

My $.02 worth as a consumer.

 

[fire&ice]

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On 8/8/2004 12:12:17 AM Feydakin wrote:


Let me ask, since you are already shopping the net, how much difference does it make in your buying decision to get everything in one spot vs. buying the diamond here, the custom setting there, etc...

And yes, I am hijacking this thread

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Well, it certainly makes life easier & the process *much* less stressful & labor intensive. So, yes, I would like to buy in a one stop fashion. But, two caveats come to mind. 1. (obvious) the price - I would pay a premium but when does that premium become not worth it. 2. Selection - will you have the *diamond* & the *setting* I want?

 

[strmrdr]

Now that Iv found my local setting guy I wouldnt go anywhere else.
He doesnt have a problem setting diamonds from other sources because that is what his business is.

As far as designs go no matter what you do someone someplace is going to copy it.
Myself I design all my own stuff and basicaly just need someone to build it.
Nothing to fancy just take existing stuff and add or subtract stuff from it or combine 2 other pieces to make it my own :}

 

[fire&ice]

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On 8/8/2004 3:10:06 PM Feydakin wrote:

The Setting..
But, our specialty has always been custom jewelry.. It's what we do best.. The only issue that keeps coming up is what happens in the design process.. We already do almost everything in CAd to present 3d rnders, and soon end users 3d models that you can rotate and look at for any angle.. But how do we protect ourselves.. We already have had issues of creating designs and then see the picture run to another store to be built just to have it come back here to be fixed.. It's happened.. It's weird to see your own design come in for repair without actually having made it..


Steve / wondering if he should have started a new thread

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If you think this to be a problem, then think outside of this box. You could not offer the custom jobs over the net. Or, you could create some of your own designs as your own design (have a few in stock for shipment out) Or, just do stock settings.

Me, I think I would go with what's been working best for you. Many things can work long distance. And, the copying thing is gonna happen - regardless. You have to look no further than the 8 page report a week or so ago.

And, yes, I think a new thread would be quite helpful.

 

[elmo]

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On 8/8/2004 3:10:06 PM Feydakin wrote:

We already have had issues of creating designs and then see the picture run to another store to be built just to have it come back here to be fixed.. It's happened.. It's weird to see your own design come in for repair without actually having made it..

But doing this over the net would add another level of that 'problem' to the game.. You would have to see pictures of the ring to decide to buy.. And then there is no way for us to keep you from taking it anywhere else.. I know that the majority of people would still use us.. But, other threads have clearly pointed out that price is god to many people and they have trouble running somewhere else to save a nickle.
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I think some folks charge up front for the design work but apply that towards the cost of the finished piece, which has a certain number of hours of design figured in to the fee structure. It sortof stinks that you have to appear like you're nickle and diming someone like this but I think you'll find yourself taken advantage of otherwise. Do great work and you'll have repeat a customer, then you can relax the process.

 

[elmo]

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On 8/9/2004 1:06:59 PM Feydakin wrote:

Actually we already do that.. That's what so funny.. They come in here, pay us to design the piece, then go elsewhere with the design.. Then I see that same piece in here for repairs months or more later.. The first time it happened I thought it was strange.. But now I just laugh.. Soon it will come down to not letting them take the drawings home..
Steve----------------

Then you aren't charging enough for the design work - the fee ought to be such that:

1. You are happy to simply do the design work for that price, and that it more than adequately covers your time. It's a little like paying the wedding photographer extra for the negatives.

2. After applying that amount to the total bill, it costs less having you guys do the metalwork...the fee should discourage going elsewhere and reinforce that the design service is an important part of the package.