Why does Dirtcheap have my diamond?

[Iceman]

I guess I should tell him I own a batch of diamonds bought, he still has them on his site ! "Paper poster"

I think you should just post what you own and quit trying to pull the smoke and mirrors on the public.

With another vendor it happened here a while back and I kept it low and didnt say anything.

One of the vendors on here posted and bosted a diamond. The consumer wanted the diamond in the worst way, he did all the reseach on the make. The vendor told the consumer about what the inside of the diamond looked like as if they had it in their hand. All the time Im laughing , because I new I owned it.

They stalled him out I guess looking for one to take its place. I finally emailed him and told him that I was shipping that diamond to Florida to a client. He ask how can that be? The guy was confused and mad. I dont blame him.


How many people here think the diamonds posted are owned by the vendors or just paper ?

Nice Ice is the only one here that does not hang paper that I know of.


This forum is to help the public , please dont ban me or take this off. If the truth is what you seek.

Corey J.

 

[ep6585]

I think GOG and Whiteflash actually own and possess some of the diamonds listed on their websites. They'll also sell off of virtual lists.

 

[Iceman]

Actually you named the two I have the most problems with.

 

[moremoremore]

Deep breath iceman! I thought everyone knew that dirtcheap is a drop shipper and doesn't own any of its stones (except maybe those signature series..dunno)... it's no hidden secret! And like EP said, same thing with WhiteFlash except maybe for the expert selection

 

[strmrdr]

You already know the answer and it seems like your just trying to start something.
If the diamond is on the virtual list it will be on their site.
That’s how they do business and why they can keep margins down.
Unlike some they will call the diamond in for a look-see if requested and not drop ship it.
Some of the stones they have on hand but the majority are just relistings of wholesalers lists and sometimes they dont get updated very often.

goodoldgold has a separate and well labeled section of virtual diamonds and whiteflash's branded cuts and expert selection are in house.
Wink when he goes public with his site will have his diamonds on hand.
Diamondexpert does has them on hand also.
Brianknox from what I understand does also.
I guess I don’t see what your beef is other than tooting your own horn.
It is common knowledge here who stocks diamonds and who doesn’t and its no secret.

 

[moremoremore]

What would be your problem with GOG? They have obviously seen the stone and done the analysis on it...so why does it matter? (just wondering)

 

[Iceman]

I guess you dont get it.

After reading your post I can understand how the consumer thinks. If you only knew.

All I can say
It bothered the guy in the story above.

 

[Iceman]

You know I dont ever do any self promoting, but Im the first one up here if I think somebody is getting screwed ! I thought that was what this forum was about to help.

 

[Iceman]

Im not trying to start something. But if all you want to hear on here is things that are Politically correct then I guess I posted it in the wrong place.


Dont take things for face value, always ask why.

If it does not bother you then that fine, it bothered this other consumer.

I need to get back to work,

Take Care

 

[alexah]

Thanks Iceman

I understand what you're saying - it's unfair to the consumer, to get their hopes up when the seller knows they will not be able to provide the exact diamond that the consumer requested. And it's unfair for the seller to pretend that it's *their* stone when it's a list diamond.

I also understand why vendors list as many stones as they do - and I don't think they claim to have them all in house. I, personally, don't expect my chosen vendor will have a specific stone I'm interested in, unless it's their "signature series", "cut above", "diamond ideal" or whatever their signature brand is...

And, finally, I don't have a problem with buying a "list" diamond - as long as it looks the way i want it to & the price is less (since it normally takes the consumer more work to find a great "list" diamond).

 

[strmrdr]

Iceman,
You came accross as having a beef with dirtcheap and you singled them out.
Am I comfortable buying a "virtual diamond" yes under some conditions.
1> I can get the amount of information I want on it.
2> The vendor has it sent to them first for a look see before its shipped to me or more likely to my appraiser.

How is this any different than having a local b&m call in a stone for a consumer?


note: The level of information I want on a .25 or larger diamond would require them to have it on hand because none of the lists have the info I require.
My min level on even .03ct melee is that the vendor look it over and I trust the vendor.

 

[laplacz]

I stalk here all the time but really havent felt the need to post, but this grabs my attentition...

Being just a regular consumer, I would hope that any online vendor would be straight up with a potential client. I know it would kill me if someone got my hopes up and didnt pull through. I hould hope that any online vendors would take the time to be sure that the diamond is actually available before completely pushing the sale. It may take an extra step or 2. Maybe make a phone call or something. I think thats the moral of the story....

I am not engaged yet, just arming my self with info for when the time is right. I will deffinately be dealing with an online vendor for the stone. It is good to hear about the ocassional bad story. This gives the consumer just one more tidbit of info as to how things work. Also, Its very benificial to learn from other peoples mistakes, bad fortunes and bad experiences.

Thanks for the dissent Iceman, it makes people think a little bit...

 

[Pair0Ducks]

I think it is obvious for a typical pricescope user which diamonds are virtual and which are not. If you do a pricescope search you will quickly see that 4-5 vendors list the exact same diamond. Obviously they don't all have it "in house". Nobody seems to be hiding this.

BTW, Dirtcheap does have their "signature series" in house. I purchased one 3 months ago and spoke with Jim who personally looked at it and 4-5 others before I bought it.

 

[noobie]

----------------
On 8/4/2004 9:11:28 AM Iceman wrote:

I guess you dont get it.

----------------

I guess I don’t get it either. I’m trying to understand your point Corey.

If you’re upset that diamonds you purchased for your own inventory are still listed on someone else’s site, then I would think you have a beef with whoever manages the virtual lists that people draw from.

If you don’t want others to sell diamonds in your possession can you have them taken off the list?

I think most people are aware that dealers don’t stock thousands of diamonds and call them in from wholesalers and other places to meet customer specs. Maybe people actually think that companies have the financial capability and are silly enough to tie up that kind of capital in inventory. It seems obvious to me though. After all a diamond for the most part is a commodity. Some are trying to brand them and tweak them, but it most cases it comes down to price, service and availability. I really don’t expect that all diamonds on those lists are available.

If I work with you to look for stones and we hit it off, would you expect me to ditch you if you didn’t have what I want in inventory? Wouldn’t you want me to let you find one?

Sure, if the vendor is not honest when he doesn’t have the stone and can’t get it, then yes I agree with you that I would not be happy. If your point is that the vendor should not lead a customer on about a stone that he cannot get, then yes I agree with you.

 

[chrono]

Wonka, you posted a very interesting tidbit about DIdeals & IRocks. I didn't know of such a thing; I'll have to take a look.

 

[wonka27]

Check it out. It is interesting. Those are the websites above.

Now that doesn't mean they are bad people not to work with. I am still highly considering them. I just thought it was odd. I know some sites have multiple Webaddresses that redirect you to their site, but I never encountered a business with two separate sites with the exact same thing at different prices.

 

[wonka27]

Sure...I am actually going to email them today about a few things concerning my stud and pendant project.

Hopefully they won't be pissed by me posting my findings here and would consider working with me yet

 

[quaeritur]

I believe Wink Jones also owns his inventory. And I think he has more class than to laugh about it if he knew someone had their heart set on a diamond that he owned but they were looking at it on paper elsewhere. Let alone to then call them and tell them they can't have it. At least, that's my impression of him as a vendor, whereas you have left a sour taste in my mouth. If you truly want what's best for the consumer, maybe you should start by treating the consumer with a little more respect and kindness?

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 8/4/2004 9:32:07 AM alexah wrote:

And it's unfair for the seller to pretend that it's *their* stone when it's a list diamond.----------------

On 8/4/2004 iceman wrote:

I guess you dont get it.

All I can say {is} it bothered the guy in the story above. ----------------[/quote]


Two things:

1. I've NEVER heard either vendor *pretend* they have a brokered stone in house. In fact, just the opposite...they are quite frank that the stone isn't part of their inventory. As long as they aren't misleading the customer, I don't see the problem.

2. It's not that we don't "get it", Ice....it's more that I have a hard time sympathizing with consumers who don't do their homework. All a smart consumer has to ask is "do you have this stone in hand/do you own it as part of your inventory?" I'm no wizard, but I researched thoroughly prior to getting into purchase mode, and therefore knew what questions to ask to avoid being disappointed. The guy above could have avoided being "bothered" by knowing what to ask in the first place.

Oh, and a last observation/suggestion: You seem to infer that these folks *know* the diamonds are sold and no longer available and continue to list them for sale anyway. I don't honestly believe this is true....as strm noted, it's most likely that these lists just don't get updated often and the vendors aren't aware the diamonds are out of the market.

Since you're so concerned about helping the customer, though, surely you wouldn't mind taking it upon yourself to to send a quick e-mail out to all the folks you know list diamonds to advise them every time you buy a group of diamonds. I'm sure if they are aware the diamonds are no longer available, they will be happy to remove them from theirs lists. I know that asks you to cut into your personal time to do this, but surely that's not too much to chip in to help the customers, is it?

 

[bling]

i agree with your post wonka,
i love GOG..but it can be confusing sometimes when they have stones listed on their seach engine that either someone else now owns, or another vendor has snatched up. I have been looking for a certain stone and everytime i see one on the search engine, its "been sold" x days ago..ahh..

again..i love GOG and the service they provide and am in no way trying to say anything negative at all about them. they are awsome with awsome stones..but i guess you have to keep in mind..thats what the search engine is..a tool to find what your looking for, with no guerantees that its there. i dont believe GOG ever says they have the search engine stones in house but that they must call them in, however, those listed on their for sale part... with the work up..they definitely have in house i believe.
finding the right diamonds is sometimes timing and luck..so im discovering..

 

[phoenixgirl]

Am I the only consumer who would think twice about buying from a vendor who would lash out at other vendors in this manner, even if it is somewhat justified? Oh well, it must just be because I'm a silly consumer who doesn't know any better. In my naivete I'll probably end up selling my soul for a diamond from blood-sucking vampire who doesn't even have the stone in-house.

 

[wonka27]

Bling -

I was actually referring to the stones with the work up in house. I picked one out, because it was still posted on their site, but it was gone when I called.

We all must be patient with broker stones for call-in, because the vendors have no control of the updates in those databases.

The stones carried in house, however, should be updated daily so the consumer knows what is available and don't get their hopes up only to find out it is gone. That final call or filling out a form is a very nerve racking experience...esp. when buying for the first time. It is a major major downer when that in house stone listed on their web site has been sold.

 

[alexah]

AlJ, when i said
"it's unfair to the consumer, to get their hopes up when the seller knows they will not be able to provide the exact diamond that the consumer requested. And it's unfair for the seller to pretend that it's *their* stone when it's a list diamond."
I was referring to the part of IceMan's post where he said
"One of the vendors on here posted and bosted a diamond. The consumer wanted the diamond in the worst way, he did all the reseach on the make. The vendor told the consumer about what the inside of the diamond looked like as if they had it in their hand. All the time Im laughing , because I new I owned it.

They stalled him out I guess looking for one to take its place."

I was not implying that all vendors deliberately pretend to have a brokered stone in house, just commenting on IceMan's post...

 

[Regular Guy]

Lots of comments here. I'll affirm some...and I have one theory.

I bought my diamond from Jim and Dirt Cheap Diamonds (DCD), and value having worked with him. I understand that some vendors may have a unique relationships with some wholesalers, such that other vendors won't post their offerings, too; I'm not sure which is the case with mine, as when I originally found it, I was only tracking the DCD website. In any case, having become more informed, I might not next time bother with those diamonds that hadn't first been brought in for review, but -- having done so -- as strmrdr says, you do have savings and value options that can be unique. For example, I happily stumbled upon an FIC this way, and although I don't know how you'd plan that in advance, based on the infrequency with which they otherwise show up, it's possible that's the best way to go. (Also, for dealers who are Pricescope mavens, setting up categories in the database to track things like BICs and TICs could be a good piece of work!)

Still, with respect to Iceman's comments, I have one theory. After I did purchase my diamond, I discovered it was listed on Pricescope's list of available options, at DCD. And the listing remained there for awhile after I had made the purchase. I even think it may have left the DCD site, but stayed here. Then, after about exactly 10 days past, the diamond was no longer listed. Note also, DCD's policy for returns is 10 days. So, maybe the Pricescope database is designed to cover those circumstances, at least with some vendors, where it's more than reasonable that even a purchased diamond will be returned. Just a theory, which described my circumstance.

As a matter of practice, after tracking the DCD database, and seeing the diamond that I thought was promising, I just shot them a (completely blind) e-mail, asking them to hold it for me. Later that day, I got a confirmation e-mail, showing it would be held for me. A phone call followed, leading to a visit to his place of business to see the diamond, and to my eventual purchase.

Now, about smaller diamonds, like for an earing..

I'll seek help with a separate post.

By the way, this forum is really too interesting. I'd been on vacation, am now back, and can't seem to get off. For all the rest of you who have made your significant diamond purchase already, why do you remain, too?

 

[laplacz]

AS a consumer, I beleive that its the sellers responsibility for what he represents. To call iceman class less is not appropriate. He just watched another individual who did not do his homework for HIS client. Iceman called him out. I see no reason why iceman should have helped out this other vendor. Iceman is out to make his own money, just like everyone else in the sales profession. It seems to me that Iceman is on the ball about what he does, and seemingly would offer a high level of service.

Now, We are talking about EXPENSIVE items. Weather its 2 or 20 grand, its alot of cash. For that money, the consumer should expect a high level of service. This includes getting the proper information about a product(diamond) for which he is inquiring. Lets be honnest, buying a diamond is one of the most expensive tthings someone can do, next to buying a car or house. Iceman just called this guy out for not doing his homework and not properly serviceing a client well. Hopefully both vendors and clients can take something away from this thread.

Just as a note..I have no idea who Iceman is, who he work for, nor do i have any idea who he was originally referring to about offering a diamond that was off of the market.

 

[denverappraiser]

There is a major battle brewing at the wholesale level over this topic. There are wholesale companies that make their stones available to retailers in the hopes of making a sale. There is, in effect, a partnership between the wholesalers and the retailers that allows inventory to be shared by many different stores, effectively saving everybody money. The wholesalers, of course, cater to many different stores and each have access to the same listings. These stores compete with one another to make the final sale. It becomes a complicated dance for the wholesalers. It’s not really a function of who has a physical location or where those locations are. The problem started because it’s possible for the wholesaler to set up a shell site that sells directly at retail in direct competition to their customers. Not surprisingly, the stores are terribly offended by this practice and most will cease doing business with a wholesaler who behaves this way. The wholesalers who do this carefully separate their retail and wholesale operations for this reason.

This has led to a rise in wholesalers who would like to make their lists available only to certain stores and prevent their stones from being listed online. This avoids the perception of them being their customers competition. It is, of course, their merchandise and they’re welcome to do with it as they wish but it’s difficult for the wholesalers and the wholesale trading networks to tell the difference. Take GOG for example. They are a b&m store in New York, and a darned good one at that. They also sell online because they’re smart and aggressive. Most good stores do this. For a wholesaler, refusing to sell to such a stores because they are highly competitive is staking out a position that is surely going to end in disaster. These are the very best stores. They make a legitimate offer to their customer and the customer repeats the offer to their consumers at a highly competitive price. What’s the problem? The heat is currently on the wholesale trading networks to separate stones that are supposed to be offered to online customers from the stones that are supposed to be offered to walk-in customers. This is likely to be difficult but we’ll see how it comes out and the trading networks have some work to do to clean up this mess. Presumably if a customer were to buy Iceman’s stone from DirtCheap, they would not end up with a stone. This makes DirtCheap look bad. I would expect them to only tolerate a very small amount of this before they find other sources.

Iceman’s situation is remarkably common. It’s not unusual for a wholesaler to search online for a stone that they own (and have possession of) and find it offered for sale by several online retailers that they don’t even know!

Neil Beaty, GG
www.gemlab.us

 

[bling]

hey wonka
gotcha..yes, that could be really disappointing. i guess they can get soo busy sometimes, that they just cant keep up with updating their page as often as they like. i can just imagine them trying to update their site, and answer emails, phone calls, appointments...how hectic. i guess i can sympathize with both sides..

 

[wonka27]

Of course, bling. I know these guys are busy...trying to make our experience the best it can be.

That said, it only takes like a few seconds to pull a link of a page or update a database that lists the stone on a website.

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 8/4/2004 11:15:05 AM alexah wrote:

AlJ, when i said
'it's unfair to the consumer, to get their hopes up when the seller knows they will not be able to provide the exact diamond that the consumer requested. And it's unfair for the seller to pretend that it's *their* stone when it's a list diamond.'
I was referring to the part of IceMan's post where he said
'One of the vendors on here posted and bosted a diamond. The consumer wanted the diamond in the worst way, he did all the reseach on the make. The vendor told the consumer about what the inside of the diamond looked like as if they had it in their hand. All the time Im laughing , because I new I owned it.

They stalled him out I guess looking for one to take its place.'

I was not implying that all vendors deliberately pretend to have a brokered stone in house, just commenting on IceMan's post...
----------------

No worries, Alexah....I didn't think you were implying that at all....in fact, just the opposite.

I think *Corey's post* suggested that vendors don't fully disclose that some of their stones are brokered, and I find that suggestion totally false. When I worked with both WF and GOG, I knew that they had inhouse stones and brokered stones, and both were VERY candid with me about which stones were which.

I quoted you because you more plainly said what it seemed Corey was inferring.

 

[alexah]

RegularGuy (Ira) - it's a great question - why do we stay here on PS once the diamond buying is done? Me, personally? I really like to help people

by profession, I'm an Exec Assistant, so helping people is what I do/like to do! I learned all this info about diamonds w the help of the nice people of PS & I'd like to "pay it fwd". As you can tell, it's quiet in the office today

There was a thread that addressed your question a little while ago: LINK.