Why does Dirtcheap have my diamond?

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 8/4/2004 11:24:13 AM laplacz wrote:

AS a consumer, I beleive that its the sellers responsibility for what he represents. To call iceman class less is not appropriate. He just watched another individual who did not do his homework for HIS client. .......
Now, We are talking about EXPENSIVE items. Weather its 2 or 20 grand, its alot of cash. For that money, the consumer should expect a high level of service. This includes getting the proper information about a product(diamond) for which he is inquiring. Lets be honnest, buying a diamond is one of the most expensive tthings someone can do, next to buying a car or house. Iceman just called this guy out for not doing his homework and not properly serviceing a client well. ----------------

Honestly, I don't see where this situation with the diamond is much different than buying the car or buying the house.

My DH and I went to an Acura dealership last year - we test drove two cars and sat down to negotiate price on the one he preferred....only to learn that another couple was just signing papers on it and had bought it.

My friends just bought a house. It wasn't the first house they found. They had taken a look at two others, and in each case, by the time they worked out their decisions and were prepared to make an offer, the house had since been sold.

This happens ALL the time. Look how many people come on here and they've spent 5 days!!! getting every possible report on a diamond except a certification from the Pentagon. Even armed with all this information, they are worried about committing to purchase and come here to ask others. Three days later, they finally feel comfortable enough to take the plunge, and the diamond is sold.

That's the nature of the retail environment....I am not the only consumer out there, and THAT diamond/car/house is not the *only* diamond/car/house that can please me. I accept that as part of the way life is.

 

[noobie]

Wonka,

I think it's a fine line between sold and returned. Say I can't decide between two or three and have GOG ship three to me or an appraiser. They know that I will return at least two and maybe all three. When should they take the link down for these stones? I would probably leave them up until it's sold. It just takes a quick phone call to find out which ones are on hold. I know it's not the perfect answer when you think you have found "your" stone, but I've learned to act decisively when I want something partly because you never know who is looking at the same stone.

Ira: I made my major purchase over ten years ago,but I stick around because there's always more to buy and the people here are so nice and helpful, although some of them may not fully appreciate my dry sense of humor at all times

Neil: Yes interesting dynamic at the wholesale levels, not unlike challenges facing many industries. Go retail to get more margin and control at the risk of pissing off your major channels and increasing SG&A or stay wholesale and try to pick the right end channel. I would think the wholesalers must be terrified in the high volume commercial side of things with the likes of Walmart throwing around their weight and retail consolidation. Good topic for another thread.

 

[wonka27]

Noobie -

I disagree there. If the consumer can't buy it at that time, it shouldn't be listed. In my diamond stud search, I have run into that at niceice.com. They have three sets of studs listed, but when I inquired, they are on hold for someone else. If the deal doesn't work out, then put them back up. Or...mark them as..."ON HOLD" like some other sites do. This shouldn't be difficult to do at all.

I just want to say that my comments are just a small small bummer I have found in this whole process. Overall, these online vendors are AWESOME. This may be one small issue they look into tweaking a bit!

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 8/4/2004 11:30:24 AM wonka27 wrote:

Of course, bling. I know these guys are busy...trying to make our experience the best it can be.

That said, it only takes like a few seconds to pull a link of a page or update a database that lists the stone on a website.----------------

Yes, it does only take a few seconds, but that assumes that the vendor is *instantly* made aware *every* time an individual stone has been purchased. That's just not how it works.

They don't become aware of that until the updated list comes out (which may be once every 10 days or once every two weeks....I don't know the frequency), they don't KNOW it's been sold, and therefore don't remove it.

Most of the vendors post their list as a database spreadsheet. When the new spreadsheet comes out, they simply replace the old file with the new file. They likely do that *as soon* as they get the new one, but if something sells from the list in between updates, vendors have no way of knowing that.

I guess my point is, these lists are not done in "real time" the way some major department stores work. If you go to Macy's today, the clerk can tell you what stores have what dresses in what sizes. If I purchase one of those dresses, it is IMMEDIATELY removed from their system when they scan it.

However, if Filene's and Lord/Taylor both sell the same dress, *they* aren't aware that the Macy's dress just sold. This is more representative of how the jewelers' lists work.

 

[wonka27]

Hold up aljdewey...

I am speaking specifically of IN HOUSE stones. If you go to GOG...they have many that are worked up fully and in their store. If it is sold or on hold...it would be most helpful to other consumers to mark it that way or take it down by the end of their work day!

 

[chrono]

What you posted of GOG is true Wonka but I also have to add a comment in their defense.

When I had my Jubilee on hold, there was nothing on their website saying that it was unavailable. However, a quick telephone call to Jonathan would have sufficed to find out whether the diamond was available or not. So in short, it is always best to call, ask for the status and even if mildly interested, put a hold on the diamond. Jon held my diamond for me for almost 2 weeks while waiting for me to make up my mind. Though I agree it would be nice for GOG to add a big bold ON HOLD if the stone was unavailable. That is easy enough to add and remove later if needed. Still, once I bought and paid for it, Jon removed it from his website.

 

[wonka27]

glitz&glam (Alexa) -

I hope the "shady" comment is not offensive. I felt having two websites operational with different prices was in fact, "shady" in my opinion. However, if it is a new project or venture that should not have been seen by the public yet, you have rectified that situation and thank you for your response.

My question is this. If you have all your diamonds in house (which I trust you do since you said it), how is it they also appear places like GOG and SuperbCert on their broker pages. Are they brokers for you? Just curious?

Again, I hope no offense is taken. I just discovered this last night and an appropriate topic appeared for discussion. I will actually be contacting you shortly about some questions I have concerning your product!

 

[noobie]

wonka,

As a consumer I fully appreciate what you are saying and would like it that way as well. I also appreciate that the vendors have their money tied up in inventory and need to have fair exposure to their goods. I guess a good compromise is to mark it on hold as some do, but I can understand why some vendors may not do that.

I guess I'm somewhat tolerant of this having had several stones I was looking at on hold or bought at seveal vendors.

 

[laplacz]

AL, I think you missed my point. Imagine you wanted a specific Acura. Say a limited edition, in red, and maybe there are like 100 made for the US market. Say you called around and you found a dealer that had it, but the dealer was far away and you couldnt just pop over there to check it out. The dealer sent pictures and talked it up for like a week. What if you decided that you were going to go buy that Acura, called up the dealer and told him you were going to come out to buy it. BUT now the dealer stalls. He starts giveing you some BS as to why you cant come out right away and you cant get the car right away or whatever.

Seems that the dealer didnt have the car in the first place, but thought he had sourced one and was selling it without actually verifying its existance. You got all hopped up cause you were getting what you wanted, but then it all went away because the dealer didnt actually verify the cars existance and availability.

Now the dealer wants to sell you a regular Acura, not the Limited Edition, in maroon not red.

You would be pissed.

See diamonds are even harder than this. Some diamonds are similar. The odds of having 2 exactly is almost (if not entirely)impossiable. If i being somld an individual item, i want that exact item. I dont want something similar. If you are going to sell me something similar, Tell me. If you cant deliver the goods. Be honnest. But dont try to hood wink me into buying somethig other that what i originally wanted because you screwed up.

 

[wonka27]

Chrono -

I LOVE Jonathan and GOG. This is just one tiny issue that maybe could make them that much more better. Not just them, but possibly other vendors as well!

As for not calling to put the stone on hold...their website speaks of making a deposit to hold the diamond I believe 72 hours. I was going by that. Ultimately, my indeciveness cost me on the one stone, but I ended up getting a beauty from them anyway

Again, this is not full scale bashing of anyone. I love these vendors on this forum. This might bring forth an issue some people have had that maybe can be rectified.

 

[noobie]

----------------
On 8/4/2004 12:18:17 PM laplacz wrote:






See diamonds are even harder than this. Some diamonds are similar. The odds of having 2 exactly is almost (if not entirely)impossiable. If i being somld an individual item, i want that exact item. I dont want something similar. If you are going to sell me something similar, Tell me. If you cant deliver the goods. Be honnest. But dont try to hood wink me into buying somethig other that what i originally wanted because you screwed up.
----------------

I agree that vendors shouldn't knowingly push and represent something that they know they can't get. That's just not right and it's bait and switch.

I don't think the limited edition Acura analogy is that accurate. I may burned at the stake for this, but here goes. Most people can easily tell the difference in a limited edition red Acura and a regular maroon. I believe (note the use of I) that most people can't tell the difference in two, three or four similar sized very well cut diamonds of simliar color and clarity in a blind test, not side by side.

We get caught up in anles and % to two decimal places and that's a great way to screen a diamond, but when it's so close, I don't think most people can tell especially in normal use conditions mounted in a ring. My view is that there is no one perfect stone. There are always more being cut and there are thousands of them out there. It takes some time and work to find the right performance cost for each individual situation, but I think there are many out there that can fit the bill. There are only so many limited edition Acura's and none produced after the run. No so with diamonds.

OK, flame suit ready

 

[laplacz]

I agree, The acure wasnt the best example. But it gets the idea across. I just feel that if a vendor is going to sell you something, they need to be accurate. Comeing up with something similar is alright, just be upfront about it. Also make sure what you are selling is actually available...

The idea that "similar"is good enough for the consumer because the vendor screwed up is not ok. (At least for me). If there are people out there who "Similar" is good enough for, the thats fine for them. I research what I buy. From my TV to my Watch I know exactly what i am buying. A 27 inch sony is not the same as a 27 inch panasonic. Most people dont care, and will buy whatever the salesman puts out there. Thats fine for them. Just dont tell me you have the sony, sell me on the sony, get me psyched up, the check the inventory and then start pushing the panasonic. I did my research, I know what I want. EXACTLY

 

[noobie]

----------------
On 8/4/2004 1:07:16 PM laplacz wrote:





From my TV to my Watch I know exactly what i am buying. A 27 inch sony is not the same as a 27 inch panasonic. Most people dont care, and will buy whatever the salesman puts out there. Thats fine for them. Just dont tell me you have the sony, sell me on the sony, get me psyched up, the check the inventory and then start pushing the panasonic. I did my research, I know what I want. EXACTLY
----------------

I think people care what sales people put out there. Actually my point with diamonds was more a Sony built in March versus one built in May. Most people can tell the difference between the Sony and Panasonic if you ask them to look. Most people can't tell between a Sony made in March versus one made in May. I think most people can't
the difference in two very similar diamonds. The term similar to mean "exactly" what you are looking for.

Sorry: This is getting a bit off topic

 

[laplacz]

I got what you are saying. I just feel that vendors should be 100% knowlegeable about facts and availibility of what they are selling.

 

[aljdewey]

Lac, I actually didn't miss the point, but Noobie aptly stated everything I would have said.

Moreover, my point is this: In your scenario, one of two things must be true. Either you assume the vendor already knows the stone/car has been sold and tries to get you all revved on it anyway hoping he can convert the sale to something else. OR You imply that the vendor hasn't done the homework because he's not aware the stone sold. What I'm saying is that in most cases, neither is true.

Let me give an example. Diamond wholesalers sell to diamond retailers, who then sell to us consumers, right? I'm sure Wholesaler A provides diamonds to a bunch of outlets....perhaps to GOG, WF, Superbcert, Long's, Days, etc.....as in, not just to online retailers.

Let's assume that Wholesaler A makes a list of good available to these retailers every 2 weeks. All of those retailers purchase stones throughout the 2-week period from the list. At the onset of the 3rd week, Wholesaler A issues an updated list showing those still available and new goods...and those that were sold don't appear any longer, right?

If I ask my local jeweler to get a stone in for me to view (which I did when I was shopping), he calls Wholesaler A to get it. Wholesaler A send it to the local guy....but he doesn't pull it from the list he published a week ago. I buy the diamond from local jeweler.....none of the other potential retails know that sale happened until they get the next updated list. The suppliers don't call all their customers to update them every time a stone sells.

Now assume that you walk into your local jeweler during the same time I walk into mine. Your local jeweler (looking at the most current inventory list) thinks he can get that diamond. It's not his fault that he doesn't know it's been sold yet, because the wholesaler hasn't issued a new inventory of goods list. The only way he'd find out SOONER than the next listing is if you asked him to bring the stone in, he called Wholesaler, and was told it was gone.

However, it's not practical for retailer to spend all day calling wholesaler to ask if stones are available if you (customer) are just window shopping or comparing. They don't call until you are serious.

Now does it make sense?

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 8/4/2004 1:30:20 PM laplacz wrote:

I got what you are saying. I just feel that vendors should be 100% knowlegeable about facts and availibility of what they are selling. ----------------

I agree, but vendors can only be as accurate about availability as the information they get from their suppliers. If the suppliers don't/won't update that data daily, then there's really no practical way for the vendor to do so.

Vendors can only give you the information they have from their suppliers (on brokered stones).

 

[rosebud]

Just for clarification, DirtCheap may drop ship some of their diamonds but I know that they have some availabe in-house. I purchased a Signature Series diamond from them a month ago and had a great experience with them. At my request, Jim personally inspected three diamonds that I was interested in.

After I reserved the diamond, I saw that it was still listed as available on their website. I sent them a quick email about this and they labeled it as "On Hold". After I purchased the diamond, the label changed to "This item has already been ordered".

 

[fire&ice]

I have nothing to add except that once again "THE CAR" anaolgy

And, the reason I have no comment is that this is an inherent problem with not an easy solution. This big ton gorilla is here to stay. I think it's up to the trade to figure how everyone can live with whatever.

 

[LGail]

I just wanted to add my two cents here. I have spoke with both dirt cheap diamonds and Whiteflash and both vendors fully disclosed that the only diamonds they had in store were the signature series or ideal picks (or whatever each company calls them). Each company disclosed that all other diamonds were from some other diamond wholesaler and they would have to be ordered to view the stone. I also questioned why I had found two of the same stone on different websites (same GIA cert #) and both indicated that it was because several vendors can have access to the same diamond wholesale list. I believe that each company represented their situation very factually.

 

[coreyzat]

I bought a diamond from WF that was in house. I prefer it this way rather than drop-shipping because I could look at Sarin reports, Idealscope, etc and take my time making my decision with no pressure.

Within an few minutes of me saying I wanted to purchase the stone, it was labeled SOLD on the website.

My point is that vendors, at least the good ones, try to keep as updated as possible. The fact of the matter is that they WANT us to be happy. An unhappy customer doesn't buy any stones.

Oh, and my custom WF ring should be here tomorrow!!!

Corey Z

 

[glitterata]

I, too, bought a diamond from DCD. I bookmarked several, then called DCD and asked about them. They told me they didn't have the diamonds in house, but would talk to the cutter about them. They did that, and on the basis of that conversation they steered me to one of the diamonds. I bought it and was very happy with it. Never once did they suggest that they had it in house. The transaction was completely straightforward.

 

[noobie]

----------------
On 8/4/2004 10:27:11 PM aljdewey wrote:

It's like saying there are 15 cars parked in your driveway, but you only own 2 of them. (I picked CARS because I KNOW how much F&I likes the analogy

)

----------------

Hey al, wouldn't it more like a car dealership that makes some cars available to other dealers to sell, but has some that they only sell to their customers? I know F&I would want us to get the car analogy accurate

Hee hee

 

[wonka27]

Elepri -

If you look a few posts above, Alexa came on and did clarify that.

However, they did not answer my question as to how their diamonds show up on other Websites like GOG and Superbcert.

 

[fire&ice]

What if I had a car for sale and I really didn't own it but really wanted to own it & decided to buy it myself.

Please no more car analogies.

 

[aljdewey]

I know it's a bug-a-boo with you, F&I, but the fact is that most people *get* car analogies.

It's not like trying to explain a product that is foreign to some folks.

As long as they are effective, they are "fair game".

 

[Hest88]

----------------
On 8/5/2004 2:04:12 AM Mara wrote:


The real problem seems to be that many virtual stones are not taken off fast enough from the wholesaler inventory lists that people pull from...


Really the beef should be with the company/service where the vendors populate their virtual lists from.
----------------

The threads I miss when I'm gone for one day.

Anyway, after having read the entire thread, this pretty much sums up my opinion.

 

[diamondsbylauren]

="padding-bottom:0;marginTop:0;marginBottom:0;">----------------
On 8/5/2004 2:04:12 AM Mara wrote:

[/quote]


Hi Everyone,
As a someone who posts here, as well as being a being the owner of an internet diamond company, I would like to add us to the list of companies that posseses all the diamonds we offer.

Today, diamonds are increasing in price rapidly- as well, suppy is more difficult today than I ever remember.
This means that more and more, stones are harder to pin down- either using a list, or simply trying to actually buy them for inventory.
It does not seem fair to blame folks selling from lists for this.

 

[oldminer]

I am not against consumers buying diamonds at low prices, so whether a diamond is virtual or actual, makes no difference if it is the one you really want and can actually purchase it. The problem with virtual inventory is actually getting the diamond delivered reliably. A diamond that a vendor owns and has in his hand will easily be sold and delivered, but a virtual diamond has many ways of getting misplaced in cyberspace. Many virtual transactions are just fine, but every once in a while there is a hang-up.

I think it is very important to understand how much different the attitude and seriousness of a seller will be who has their own money tied up in real, actual diamond inventory. They are in for the long haul. They probably have been involved in diamonds long before there was an Internet. They may really know the business.

Sellers who are really only "virtual" may be pajama dealers for all we know. No doubt, some of them wear silk pj's and and are neat to deal with. They know how to be good salesmen and they know the computer oriented side of the business. Are they in for the long haul? Maybe not, as they can flit along to another hot biz-op whenever they feel it is the time to flee.

This isn't implying that there are only two kinds of sellers. It isn't a black and white thing. Some virtual dealers also own some inventory. Some very heavily invested dealers make use of a small amount of virtual inventory. There is every possible combination of knowledge and dedication. Some successful virtual guys are becoming actual these days.

Consumers can't see this. It is pretty much invisible. Maybe more "Actual" vendors should stress this as a feature. Maybe "Virtual" vendors should work themselves more into the "Actual" model and become dedicated to selling diamonds and owning them, too. I have no doubt that owning a commodity makes you far more serious about it than trading it without ever owning it. Once your own money is tied up in inventory, you have a very different level of committment.

This same truth works at the B&M level, too. More retail stores are understanding the importance of owning diamonds rather than borrowing them to make sales. If you are going to succeed in diamonds, you need to become an owner in the tight market we have today.

Consumers dealing with "virtual" inventory cannot possibly get all the important questions answered properly because the seller may never have seen the diamond. When you deal with the owner of a diamond, there isn't a question you can ask that should not have some reasonable chance of being answered correctly. I think this does make a substantial difference when making a purchase selection.

 

[CaptAubrey]

----------------
On 8/5/2004 10:29:14 AM fire&ice wrote:





What if I had a car for sale and I really didn't own it but really wanted to own it & decided to buy it myself.

Please no more car analogies.

----------------

hey, they probably use diamond analogies on car forums...

 

[Banshee13]

What about Empire Diamond in NYC (www.dialadiamond). I believe they have their own inventory. I had a good experience working with them.