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Who Whitby the Dog Lover

Aw, thanks! And you''re welcome!


Hmm, I''ll be honest, the concept is not grabbing me. That''s not to say it might not if I saw one in real life though. I have a link I''ll give you, it lets you design your own ring. You have to answer a short questionaire first, then pick Engagement ring, that''s the one you can change the side stones with. I put the pears with a Princess for the squareness, and an EC for the steps, and I felt like with both, the "flow" was not there. It''s kind of like the pears were fighting with the center stone to me. And with an asscher, I''d want the stone to be the "star". Would you consider pave instead? I think that would add a nice touch without competing.

If it were me, just to throw out some suggestions, I''d perhaps consider something like these settings.

This would be a pretty jazzy setting for it.

http://www.artofplatinum.com/4images/details.php?image_id=79

As would this.

http://www.artofplatinum.com/4images/details.php?image_id=76

Nice split shank.

http://www.artofplatinum.com/4images/details.php?image_id=417

And one of my favorites ever, probably because I''m more of a minimalist at times.
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http://www.artofplatinum.com/4images/details.php?image_id=80


Or, if you really wanted side stones, I''d go for something like this. I think shields lend themselves better to step cuts.

http://www.artofplatinum.com/4images/details.php?image_id=313



What do you think? And you won''t offend me if you don''t like any of them, I realize it''s very personal!
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Here''s the link to the designer.

http://www.adiamondisforever.com/dyoer/
 
hi ellen :)

thanks for those suggestions.

my computer is refusing to load the ''adiamondisforever.com'' site, so will swap computers in a bit and try again. really dying to see what this might show me!

the reason i want a step cut blue stone is for the depth of tranquil color. steps give that ''deep pool of water'' look which i just dont think you get from rounds, etc. your aqua is the last word in this; when i look into it (not ''at it'', note - ''into it''!) i expect to see koi swimming past! or perhaps a cloud wafting by... i have a real thing about the ocean/swimming/water in general, so this really would be a ring that was to reflect that.

i want to use the pears if i can - simply because i have them! i think pear diamonds next to blue stones make a lovely statement, as per LS''s blueberry, where her use of pears looks killer. and i''m not a fan of halos or split shank designs - tho leon''s rings could probably convert me to anything and i thought the split shank ring you showed me was amazing! my ultimate concern IS the same as yours tho - that the pears and the step cut just might not work together, and i would never, for example, put pear diamonds next to an asscher diamond. i was hoping, tho, being different gems, that the contrast might be sufficient to carry it off - with the sleekness of the band picking up the lines of the center stone again to even it up. but this simply may not work. do you think i would be better off with an oval or a round? i dont want this ring till next year, so i have considerable time to look.

your rings are gorgeous, and i have a lot of faith in your taste - so thank you for your input. my taste is quite developed and strong, so it''s good to find someone whose suggestions i feel mesh sufficiently with my own that their suggestions make ''sense'' to me.

thanks ellen!
 
Hey whitby,

I''m a little late to the thread, but just wanted to say that your dogs are awesome. Aren''t you glad they can show in the US, now? BTW, do you show your own dogs or have a handler? I love red & white setters and will consider one for my next pup in a couple of years. I might stick with Brittany''s though. Living in the midwest, you just don''t see red & whites at shows or in the field. I want to be able to show my next dog myself and there would be zero chance of majors around here.

Anyhow, I enjoy reading your posts and just wanted to say HI
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Date: 4/27/2009 12:52:15 PM
Author: whitby_2773
hi ellen :)

thanks for those suggestions.

my computer is refusing to load the ''adiamondisforever.com'' site, so will swap computers in a bit and try again. really dying to see what this might show me!

the reason i want a step cut blue stone is for the depth of tranquil color. steps give that ''deep pool of water'' look which i just dont think you get from rounds, etc. your aqua is the last word in this; when i look into it (not ''at it'', note - ''into it''!) i expect to see koi swimming past! or perhaps a cloud wafting by... i have a real thing about the ocean/swimming/water in general, so this really would be a ring that was to reflect that.

i want to use the pears if i can - simply because i have them! i think pear diamonds next to blue stones make a lovely statement, as per LS''s blueberry, where her use of pears looks killer. and i''m not a fan of halos or split shank designs - tho leon''s rings could probably convert me to anything and i thought the split shank ring you showed me was amazing! my ultimate concern IS the same as yours tho - that the pears and the step cut just might not work together, and i would never, for example, put pear diamonds next to an asscher diamond. i was hoping, tho, being different gems, that the contrast might be sufficient to carry it off - with the sleekness of the band picking up the lines of the center stone again to even it up. but this simply may not work. do you think i would be better off with an oval or a round? i dont want this ring till next year, so i have considerable time to look.

your rings are gorgeous, and i have a lot of faith in your taste - so thank you for your input. my taste is quite developed and strong, so it''s good to find someone whose suggestions i feel mesh sufficiently with my own that their suggestions make ''sense'' to me.

thanks ellen!
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Goodness, thank you for the compliment, but don''t put too much faith in me. What do I know?!
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I definitely think you should get the stone you want. So I would stick with the blue, and if it''s an Asscher cut you really want, I wouldn''t compromise on that either. I realize you want to use the pears simply because you already have them and can, but they are the one thing that "could" be compromised on. You could always use them somewhere else. I would rather see you get something that lets that stone shine and really stand on its own.

I don''t know whitby, every time I try to imagine a blue step cut with pears, I don''t think, Ooo! that would be gorgeous. I just think, it''s not clicking.... I agree the contrast in colors would be very pretty, it''s the shapes, and substance of the stones. Their personalities that I am finding conflicting.

Let me do some real searching to see if I can find anything like this. I''ll be back!
 
Ok, after having done several searches, I can''t find a ring with a sapphire asscher with pears, nor a diamond asscher with pears. Maybe it''s not been done? Maybe there''s a reason? lol Maybe you should be the first on your block??
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I did think of a somewhat similar ring that got posted not too long ago, which I''ll post. I actually liked this ring, which was surprising. However, I think it''s the whole thing together that makes it. I''m not sure it would work for me if it were simpler....


You know, you could do a poll in RT. I''m just one person, I think you should try for a general consensus. I''m going to keep looking in the meantime.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/jared-who-would-have-thought.110325/
 
ellen, you know - i think you hit it on the head, and i really agree with you, re not compromising the sapphire.

i think a beautiful, step cut sapphire could be much more unusual than pear cut diamonds, and i agree, i dont want to compromise it at all. i think i had best see something similar before i make any sort of commitment, so anything you can dig up would be great; i know that, design-wise, i''m a bit out on a limb.

i''ve had so much to do with design in my life - it''s been a hobby of mine for many years, and tim and i have done 13 houses all up; been in magazines, on tv, that kind of thing. and i can normally visualize really well. but i just cant wrap my head around this one - which suggests to me that perhaps it''s the wrong move.

anyway, anything you can find would be GREAT, and if i find anything i''ll post it here.

thanks for your help, ellen!
 
Date: 4/27/2009 7:20:04 PM
Author: whitby_2773
ellen, you know - i think you hit it on the head, and i really agree with you, re not compromising the sapphire.

i think a beautiful, step cut sapphire could be much more unusual than pear cut diamonds, and i agree, i dont want to compromise it at all. i think i had best see something similar before i make any sort of commitment, so anything you can dig up would be great; i know that, design-wise, i''m a bit out on a limb.

i''ve had so much to do with design in my life - it''s been a hobby of mine for many years, and tim and i have done 13 houses all up; been in magazines, on tv, that kind of thing. and i can normally visualize really well. but i just cant wrap my head around this one - which suggests to me that perhaps it''s the wrong move.

anyway, anything you can find would be GREAT, and if i find anything i''ll post it here.

thanks for your help, ellen!
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Could be, I''m a big believer in listening when things aren''t gelling/feeling right. And I agree, you''d really need to see this particular setting to know for sure. I will keep looking, and definitely report back if I find anything, and I''ll watch for you to post anything!

And you''re very welcome.
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Date: 4/27/2009 6:07:45 PM
Author: Ellen

I don''t know whitby, every time I try to imagine a blue step cut with pears, I don''t think, Ooo! that would be gorgeous. I just think, it''s not clicking.... I agree the contrast in colors would be very pretty, it''s the shapes, and substance of the stones. Their personalities that I am finding conflicting.
Click to expand...
It would be rather difficult to make this work design-wise. Conflicting shapes require a lot of support via a melee or something to make it work....I''ve been trying to visualize this too but can''t get my head around it without making the setting really complicated.

LS
 
Date: 4/27/2009 7:45:05 PM
Author: LostSapphire

Date: 4/27/2009 6:07:45 PM
Author: Ellen

I don''t know whitby, every time I try to imagine a blue step cut with pears, I don''t think, Ooo! that would be gorgeous. I just think, it''s not clicking.... I agree the contrast in colors would be very pretty, it''s the shapes, and substance of the stones. Their personalities that I am finding conflicting.
Click to expand...
It would be rather difficult to make this work design-wise. Conflicting shapes require a lot of support via a melee or something to make it work....I''ve been trying to visualize this too but can''t get my head around it without making the setting really complicated.

LS
Click to expand...
Yes, and I think that''s why I actually liked the ring I linked. It works for me, but it has a lot going on!
 
Date: 4/27/2009 7:45:05 PM
Author: LostSapphire
Date: 4/27/2009 6:07:45 PM

Author: Ellen


I don''t know whitby, every time I try to imagine a blue step cut with pears, I don''t think, Ooo! that would be gorgeous. I just think, it''s not clicking.... I agree the contrast in colors would be very pretty, it''s the shapes, and substance of the stones. Their personalities that I am finding conflicting.
Click to expand...

It would be rather difficult to make this work design-wise. Conflicting shapes require a lot of support via a melee or something to make it work....I''ve been trying to visualize this too but can''t get my head around it without making the setting really complicated.


LS
Click to expand...

LS! you''ve caught me trying to semi-copy your ring! (where''s the blush smilie when you need it??)

thank you for your comments - i really hadn''t given a lot of thought to the undercarriage of the whole thing - the general design concept etc. at first thought, i had thought the pears and the asscher MIGHT make a great contrast - but i''m quickly losing confidence in my own design. but despite wanting something ''tranquil'', something like this is too tranquil for me. (read ''dull'') just not my cup of tea. obviously i wouldnt do a hideous band like that, but even with a ''leon elegant'' band, it''s still kinda yawny for my tastes.

i cant find a step + pears, but i did find an emerald sapp. with trilliants here. if the sapp. was an asscher (ie short and fat), and the pears flowed to it better, it *might* work...

no?

i''m going to start a thread asking for photos of any asscher cut sapphires and see what i get. i might try it in SMTR first, and take it to rocky talky when i have more concrete design questions.

thanks ladies! i''ve been thinking about this for some time - and i clearly still have a way to go. (i could always try a cushion with pears if all else fails...)
 
I can''t get the links you posted to work for me, but I''ll be watching for your thread in SMTR whitby.
 
Hi Whitby,
Just wanted to say I love your AKA name! I was laughing at the post when Maisie was telling you what her son saw as your avatar and I will forever have that image in my mind. It''s really, really funny to me!
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Date: 4/22/2009 10:13:18 PM
Author: SparklyLibra
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Dixon and Poppy have stolen my heart!


You look FABULOUS for almost fifty!
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SparklyLibra

thank you so much! they''ve stolen my heart also :)

and i enjoy your posts! i''ve bee seeing them regularly, and they''re always positive and friendly. very nice :)

thanks for saying hi
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Date: 4/27/2009 5:29:56 PM
Author: jet2ks
Hey whitby,


I''m a little late to the thread, but just wanted to say that your dogs are awesome. Aren''t you glad they can show in the US, now? BTW, do you show your own dogs or have a handler? I love red & white setters and will consider one for my next pup in a couple of years. I might stick with Brittany''s though. Living in the midwest, you just don''t see red & whites at shows or in the field. I want to be able to show my next dog myself and there would be zero chance of majors around here.


Anyhow, I enjoy reading your posts and just wanted to say HI
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hi jet2ks :)

so nice to hear you like red and whites! dixon has a range of shows in jersey with his handler (yes, professional) this coming weekend, and we''re hoping for some wins in there. the breed is so new to the AKC, however, that a lot of judges dont know what the heck they''re supposed to be looking for. so red and white setter owners are seeing some very strange looking dogs get up in some of the US shows. the canadian judges are more reliable, as red and whites have been registered there longer. but the best judges are the ones brought over from the UK, Ireland, or western Europe in general where the breed is much more prolific and well known.

and i love brittanys! great dogs! people unfamiliar with red and whites often ask if ours are brittanys, but people who notice the longer legs and black noses sometimes guess ''setters''. tim, my husband, does some handling himself, and enjoys it a great deal. he still does classes and hopes to do more in the future.

do respond, if you have time, and put up some photos? i''d love to see your dog/dogs.

thanks for saying hi, jet2ks
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Whitby I love your new sig!!! It made me giggle when I read it!!
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Date: 4/29/2009 7:47:28 PM
Author: Maisie
Whitby I love your new sig!!! It made me giggle when I read it!!
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lol - do pls tell sam that i took his comments on board!

xo
 
I hear you on the judging problems--I've questioned why some Brits win and usually find out that those judges are all breed certified and came up in toys. I don't understand why it should be such and issue, is there something in the breed standard for the red & whites that is that much different than the other setters and sporting breeds? Best of luck this weekend--are you going to the shows?

Since you asked, I'll post a couple pictures of Ace. (not that it would take much prodding) He is my first purebred and he and his breeders introduced me to the world of dog shows and field trials. We showed for a short time, but he just doesn't enjoy it very much. In limited showing, he took Breed four times at smaller shows, but the best we could ever do at a major was Reserve

AceBoB2.JPG
 
At home

Ace1.jpg
 
And showing he does know how to share. I lost a ton of pics, and all of our hunting pics when my hard drive crashed a couple months ago.

AceDiz.JPG
 
Date: 4/29/2009 11:31:28 PM
Author: jet2ks
I hear you on the judging problems--I''ve questioned why some Brits win and usually find out that those judges are all breed certified and came up in toys. I don''t understand why it should be such and issue, is there something in the breed standard for the red & whites that is that much different than the other setters and sporting breeds?


Since you asked, I''ll post a couple pictures of Ace. (not that it would take much prodding) He is my first purebred and he and his breeders introduced me to the world of dog shows and field trials. We showed for a short time, but he just doesn''t enjoy it very much. In limited showing, he took four BoB at smaller shows, but the best we could ever do at a major was Reserve
Click to expand...

he''s a sweetheart, jet2ks! what an adorable little man!

arent dog shows addictive? dixon and poppy are show dogs born and bred; their parents were show dogs, their grand parents were show dogs, their great grand parents were show dogs, and so on and so on. of poppy''s 4 grandparents, for example, 3 have been the canadian national annual champion at some point or another. so she''s a champion born and bred. dixon is part time on the show circuit, but we''re going ot give poppy another year till her movement is perfect before we show her; we''r expecting great things from her. dixon is a big time champion who does well in all shows. he was the national champion puppy in 2004 and the highest points per show dog in 2006. we didnt show him for 2007 and 2008 but have started again this year and he''s doing great guns so far.

anyway, thank you for the picture - your boy is lovely :)
 
Date: 4/29/2009 9:43:17 PM
Author: whitby_2773

Date: 4/29/2009 7:47:28 PM
Author: Maisie
Whitby I love your new sig!!! It made me giggle when I read it!!
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lol - do pls tell sam that i took his comments on board!

xo
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I will let him know! Still making me smile when I see it!!
 
Hey whitby,

Just wanted to check in and see how Dixon did last weekend.
 
hi jet2ks :)

dixon didn''t win last weekend and we got a number of phone calls telling us it was jaw dropping. the problem is that...(are you *sure* you want to hear this? it''s very dull and doggy...but here goes anyway...)

if you look at lots of photos of IRWS, you''ll see that there are 2 basic lines. there is a line which is more like irish setters (this is the US line) and there is the more true, english/european line. dixon looks like the english line. the english line has traditionally much prettier, broader heads and are broader in the chest with better back end movement, driving from the rear. the US line became so rare that they were not recognized by the AKC for some time. as such, breeding was a HUGE problem. there were few dogs to choose from, and even less top quality dogs. when there''s no possibility of show competition, breeders just wont bring the breed into the US in such large numbers (at some points in time, there were less than a dozen breedable pure bred females - and this was not all that long ago). so there was a lot of inbreeding, and many of the problems were just repeated over and over again; narrow chests, narrow jaws, poor back end construction and so on. over the last 10 years things have improved, but there is still a marked difference in standard. canada is MUCH better as there is an irish breeder there who has brought numerous dogs in from the UK and has opened up the breed a lot. dixon is one of her dogs.

judges, however, in the US aren''t experienced (obviously) as the breed could only be shown this year. so consequently a lot of judges are being used that dont know the breed all that well, and a LOT of them have irish setter backgrounds. so they tend to choose IRWS''s in shows that look like irish setters. dixon just looks like a different breed. when he gets an experienced judge, he wins. when he gets an inexperienced judge who trusts their gut - he also wins. but when he gets a timid judge, he often loses. he was down to final two this weekend and the judge apparently took an extraordinarily long time to choose between the two. our handler (who is an absolutely top shelf handler) said as soon as the judge was hesitating she knew we were sunk. if you dont know enough right off the bat to realize that dixon is a better dog, then you''re not going to have the confidence to put him up.

another friend of ours, who won breed with her dog at westminster this year, said it was like dixon was a different breed, and that people were just shaking their heads at the judge. often if all you''ve seen is a lot of poor quality dogs, and you arent very experienced, you''ll think that''s the standard. it''s very frustrating for us, but all we can do is be patient. in canada where the judges are better and where they bring in a lot of english judges to raise the standard and give tutorials, dixon got his championship in a weekend and was national champion puppy in 2004 and highest points per show winner in 2006. i mean, when you see a scrapper put up over a national champion, it''s just infuriating.

anyway, there you have it. we''re not going to show him again now till june when we can get him in a bigger pool. the recession has really effected dog show entry - have you seen this too? numbers are WAY down; it''s a very expensive sport.

how is your boy doing? have you had him out this spring? i''d love to see some more photos....
 
Interesting stuff Whitby!

I have a dumb question...if the breed is not very well known, why don''t the judges have written standards to refer to, or even pictures of what a breed should look like? Seems incredibly unfair for a judge to just fly by the seat of their pants and choose some dogs/breeds based on their own preference, yet judge other dogs by a strict ''breed standard''. That doesn''t seem right at all.


Dixon is a beautiful boy and I wish him better luck, with better judges next time!
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Sorry about your weekend, whitby. Of course I want to hear it. Dog people will understand and the others just think we are crazy.
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I can totally relate. Even in well established breeds like Brittanys you get judges that favor certain types, 'cause that is what they are used to. Ace did really well with judges brought up with Brits, poorly with all breed or even judges that know setters and retrievers. The differences are subtle, but infuriating--we got busted on head shape repeatedly--Ace is classic Brit, the current trend is a little more dome-like. If we had a judge that knew the breed and liked smooth movement, we won (Ace is still the prettiest moving dog I have ever seen, even his breeders agree and they have another dog that is one of the top five in the country). Other judges, not so much.

Honestly, I haven't paid as much attention to the show circuit the last couple of years. My breeders are showing a lot less due to financial concerns (he has been laid off twice in the past six years) and Ace is "retired" from showing. He just never had the heart for it and gets bored way too easliy--he'd rather be hunting. One show we went to, the first time around the ring--WOW! You could see the judge's eyes coming back to him over and over. Did the hands on and up and back and we were still OK. Final time around Ace decided "Wait, I've seen this before" and you could just see the ears and tail droop just a little. Result--Reserve. The frustrating part was when we were headed back out to the car, a lady stopped me in the parking lot and was totally impressed with Ace--he had "lit up" as soon as we stepped outside. First time I had seen her, but when she introduced herself, I knew the name. She is one of the top Brittany breeders in the Midwest. I probably should have tried some outdoor shows, but they are far too infrequent in my area. It's OK, I purchased Ace as a companion and hunting dog, the shows were a bonus. What I have realized is that I like showing, so my next pup will be one with the conformation and attitude.

Yes, it can be frightfully expensive, but I will show myself for locals, though I may have to find a handler to do majors--the closest shows that constently make major are in Colorado--and guess what state 15 of the last 18 national specialty champions are from?

Better luck next time.

Ara Ann, there are wriiten standards for all breeds, but they are generally very vague and open to a lot of interpretation.

Here is a quote from the AKC breed standard for Red & Whites. "Neck - The neck is moderately long, very muscular, but not too thick, slightly arched, free from all tendency to throatiness" The problem comes in what is moderately long and not too thick and slightly arched? That becomes personal judgement and opinion. In some ways this is frustrating, in another way it is good in that it keeps some diversity in the breed so you don't have the inbreeding problems whitby referred to.

The other issue is that judges can be certified to judge certain breed(s), certain group(s) or all breeds. A judge that for years raised Labrador Retrievers might be certfied to judge all Sporting dogs, so they know the generalities for Sporting dogs , but not all the finer ins and outs of each of Sporting breeds, especially newly recognized ones. Or you might have a judge that is all breed certified that raises pugs. How much do you think they know about setters? They are doing the best they can, but it can take years to learn a few breeds well, much less the hundreds out there.
 
Ara Ann - to give you an idea....

my VET hadn''t seen a red and white when we first took ours to see him. and he is a dog specialist.

up till the last 5 years they were very rare - at one point in the 70''s there were only a couple of dozen in the entire US.

re the guidelines - what jet2ks said was very accurate. and as well as that, you can get a dog that meets all the guide lines - but still looks different because his angles are different, or his muscle distribution is different, leading to a big impact on movement (which is a HUGE thing in shows as good movement indicates balanced growth). i''ll try to find some photos of dixon and of the other strain of IRWS so you can see what i mean....
 
here''s beautiful dixon. long in the leg, deep in the chest, broad (for a setter) in the head, and not too long in the ear; he''s not supposed to be a spaniel!

dogphotostosend6a.jpg
 
and here he is side on. he''s a big boy, but not overly long in the body, meaning he stands tall, giving him beautiful movement. he is very strong in the back end and has powerful drive when he moves.

dog photos to send_8.jpg
 
Nice stack! (Is that your patio table you have him on?)
 
and here''s bennie - the australian grand champion. highest ranking IRWS in australian history. you can see he is very like dixon - similar head, again not too long in the body; if you were to visually remove head and tail, then draw a shape along his back, down front and back legs, and along the gorund between front abd back paws, it would basically be a square. both he and dixon are as tall as they are long. bennie is in full show stance here. dixon will do this - but i didnt have a chance to set him up so the photos i''ve incuded are just casual back yard shots.

anyway, this is a supreme dog, as is dixon.

the perfect irish red and whitea.jpg
 
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