Which of 2 diamonds

[KKJohnson]

So I’m going to throw this vendor out there as well, he has some beautiful stones and settings that are very reasonable priced. I’ve never personally dealt with him but a few have, there seems to be some mixed reviews about his personality but st the end of the day it’s about the ring.

https://instagram.com/parksfinegroupinc?igshid=1nom2gu63nidk

 

[LLJsmom]

I’m assuming you don’t know much about old european cut diamonds so I’m starting at the beginning.
Here is a link to a newly cut old European (OEC) cut style diamond. These are also referred to as antique round diamonds.
https://www.victorcanera.com/diamonds/ags104099118006-1.511-j-vs2-old-european-cut

You will see that the facets are big and flowery. Generally speaking, a well cut OEC will face up very white compared to a modern round brilliant (MRB) which is what you were considering.
OECs and MRBs reflect light very differently. MRB sparkles look splintery, small and sharp. OEC sparkles are more reminiscent of a kaleidoscope, big flashes of light, such that you can see multicolored flashes from one facet.
Because well cut OECs can face up whiter than an equal color grade MRB, OEC lovers will often choose lower colors to see the same level of “whiteness”. Some even prefer lower colors because the body color of an OEC can seem to make an OEC glow. This is a very personal preference and it takes seeing them IRL to appreciate. However your GF seems to gravitate toward this type of stone and the glow that can be perceived in the pics that she shared with you.

You can buy actual antique stones or newly cut OEC style stones. The one linked above isn’t newly cut by Victor Canera to maximize light return. It will be stunning. August Vintage also cuts new OECs.
Or you can buy a true antique. These would not be perfectly cut because they can date back to the early 1900s and were hand cut. Each one is different yet that is the charm of them. Below is a thread with many of the OECs owned by Pricescopers. Many of them are set in antique style settings. My personal favorite for an OEC is Art Deco.
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/show-off-your-oecs.223205/

 

[lovedogs]

I’m assuming you don’t know much about old european cut diamonds so I’m starting at the beginning.
Here is a link to a newly cut old European (OEC) cut style diamond. These are also referred to as antique round diamonds.
https://www.victorcanera.com/diamonds/ags104099118006-1.511-j-vs2-old-european-cut

You will see that the facets are big and flowery. Generally speaking, a well cut OEC will face up very white compared to a modern round brilliant (MRB) which is what you were considering.
OECs and MRBs reflect light very differently. MRB sparkles look splintery, small and sharp. OEC sparkles are more reminiscent of a kaleidoscope, big flashes of light, such that you can see multicolored flashes from one facet.
Because well cut OECs can face up whiter than an equal color grade MRB, OEC lovers will often choose lower colors to see the same level of “whiteness”. Some even prefer lower colors because the body color of an OEC can seem to make an OEC glow. This is a very personal preference and it takes seeing them IRL to appreciate. However your GF seems to gravitate toward this type of stone and the glow that can be perceived in the pics that she shared with you.

That's the one I linked too

 

[LLJsmom]

I just lost a whole long post. Here's the shortened version.

Quick comment on color. Previously I had a MRB in an F, and I consider myself quite color sensitive. I traded down to a K in an OEC. That tells you how white an OEC can face up. Here is a pic of my K OEC in a setting similar to the one your GF likes.


Caysie van Beber does amazing pieces that complement OEC style stones. She can also source old europeans and her prices are very competitive. She has a very good eye for beautiful old cut stones, so you can rely on her to source you a beautiful one.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/from-one-pser-to-another-avc-in-a-cvb-setting.241694/
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https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/avr-cvb-perfection.243702/
View attachment 701147 View attachment 701146

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-hg-just-arrived-5-ct-antique-cushion-and-cvb.244597/
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Victor Canera also does beautiful hand forged platinum settings in the spirit of the Art Deco period.
The Sophia with french cuts on the side. Maybe not very art deco, but the french cuts make it count, right?
https://www.pricescope.com/communit...ropean-round-3-carats-amazing-upgrade.207549/


https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/post-your-victor-canera-beauties-here.175281/page-9


And my big time favorite, his tri-wire shank. So gorgeously clean yet with a vintage vibe.
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/precision-gem-meets-victor-canera.209907/page-2

 

[LLJsmom]

Lastly, here are some great videos that may help.

modern rounds v. August vintage round

Currently cut european cuts
August Vintage Round

Canera European Round

 

[Siamese Kitty]

Thanks for the suggestion! They have a bunch of things that seem to look like what she wants.



I think I am having a hard time because consciously or subconsciously I'm looking for designs I would like, which are not at all what she would like. I pick up pretty quickly on color and have a strong preference for very white stones. I suspect she might not care about that at all. In her "if you had infinite money" dream home must be 1890 to 1920 construction with original wood built ins and original kitchen cabinets, a preference I still don't really understand. I couldn't even tell you my preferences for a kitchen . I think this is like that - I don't even know how to think about what she wants because it's not something I've ever looked for.

I think these newer posts are on the right track! You guys sound like me and my husband, ha. He told me the antique settings I looked at looked like "jukeboxes." Men... In any case, please take heart in the fact you are leagues ahead of many men just in the fact you are doing all of this research. It will mean the most to her how hard you worked to make her happy, promise!

PS Several of the rings she posted have very, very warm stones. I'm willing to wager color is not as high on her list as the overall aesthetic, though you may want to check and not take any of our words for it. It is also very common for people to say they'd prefer a higher a color in a modern cut, but would happily accept a lower color in an antique.

I see many of the ladies here have recommended some of the go to dealers of antique/repro stones and settings. I have personally done a small transaction with Adam at Old World Diamonds and thought he was lovely and the transaction was effortless. I have also corresponded with Victor Canera about several quotes and found him very professional and knowledgeable, although I decided not to do the reset in the end. (not because of him) I don't know if anyone has used Singlestone in a while and I think they were expensive, but man, they make some beautiful rings.

Can't wait to see what you find!

 

[headlight]

Thanks. Just helps to tell why they were over 2 on the HCA. 1st one was too deep, 2nd one was steep on both crown and pav, and *just* under the max depth.

15.5 & 43 too deep?

 

[LLJsmom]

The following rings are worth a consideration.

If you consider a newly cut old cut style, you can probably get it without her knowing. These are cut to optimize light performance. I would suggest these.
https://www.victorcanera.com/diamonds/ags104099118006-1.511-j-vs2-old-european-cut

If you want a higher color, this is an F. However, I would actually caution you against a high color OEC, until you can compare it with a warmer color. I think she may prefer the J linked above. I think an F might be too white, if there is such a thing. The best thing would be if you guys could make the decision together.
https://www.victorcanera.com/diamonds/r4qf5a-1.492-f-si1-old-european-cut

If you decide on a true antique stone, you will need to make this a joint effort with her, because old cuts are extremely personal. You will know you chose the right one only if she falls in love with it. You will need to make the search together. And you should work with only the vendors who are old cut experts. Grace with Jewels by Grace, Adam from Old World Diamonds. I know some one recommended Parks Fine Group. I have never worked with them but other PSers have been happy. Caysie van Beber.

Grace has a three day return period. Then you can check it out and see if you and your GF like it.
https://www.jewelsbygrace.com/3-10ct-old-european-cut-diamond-ring-gia-k-vs1 I know this is bigger than you planned, but it's close to your budget, and I feel good about this stone.


Also contact Adam at Old World Diamonds. His website does not have helpful pictures, but he knows old cuts and has an extensive inventory. Just tell him your budget and approximate size and he will suggest very beautiful stones for you. I bought mine from him. Many on PS have.

 

[OoohShiny]

You've got some awesome advice already on this thread, OP

Believe me, you can definitely trust the members on here to be (brutally ) honest and help get you to where you need to be!

 

[jp201845]

15.5 & 43 too deep?

I believe @lovedogs was referring to the first stone with a depth of 63.4 which is too deep.

 

[Huge Metal Fan]

Thank you everyone so much for your help and input. I am completely overwhelmed by options! A little too overwhelmed

I had a good heart to heart with GF last night, relayed that I was struggling and didn't feel like I was "dialed in" to her style. I think I was able to explain my feeling frustrated about my inability to find it without making it seem like her fault for her tastes and styles. I just need time to look and get comfortable with the aesthetic and options out there to feel like I am making a good selection. I wish she would have given me notes sooner! Our 2 year is coming up early August, we will be out on vacation all next week, and I'm not sure I can find the right piece soon enough to have it in time for the anniversary. I would rather do it right than rush it.

I got some new information:
1. She says she doesn't care about the stone itself, doesn't know color grades and clarity grades or anything about diamonds. She says when she admires other people's rings it's always about the ring itself for her, it's design and features, and not about the diamond. I was floored! I still don't really understand this. For me it's very much about the diamond. The setting matters, needs to fit with the stone and the person's style, but I really believe the quality of the diamond is what impresses people generally.
2. She said she gave a CTW range because she thinks diamonds that are too large don't look good(overly flashy/out of place).
3. I got 16 more example rings from her. I will post these later if I have time.

I need time to get this straight in my head. I realized this morning that I am partly buying the ring for me. With the last ring I bought I really liked it, she really liked it, and it consistently floored people who saw it. (That was a different person, it didn't work out, I learned a lot). Not people saying it was great, I watched expressions and body language and people were truly impressed. Guys would be flirting with her, see the ring, and give up. The problem is what my girlfriend wants is not at all what I would buy, left to my own devices.

This is not insurmountable, just something I have to figure out. I also don't have her taste in houses. At all. But I've spent time looking at the houses she likes and I started to see the appeal. It just took time. I don't mean to say that I think she has bad taste, I think we have different tastes and I like a lot of her tastes, I just haven't understood all of them right off the bat. I think it would help if we visited some stores and looked at settings together. I need to figure out how to also love something in the style she loves, and I'm not there yet.

Because I'm about to be on vacation, I have a lot to do today and tomorrow to be ready. I'm going to review the thread if I have breaks on vacation, and when I come back. But I think I need to set my notes on the search aside and come back to it later. I'm overloaded with information and really need to ensure my professional responsibilities are well covered right now.

 

[LLJsmom]

@Sean Olander KUDOS to you for focusing on what SHE wants and understanding that she’s the one who wearing the ring.
Taken it slow, one post at a time. It’s taken me a while to learn about the cuts and my own preferences. Come back and ask questions at your own pace. ENjoy and think about making it a shared journey. It can be lots of fun for you both.

 

[OoohShiny]

It is good that you are aware of your differing tastes - at least it means you can hopefully get it more right first time!

 

[xxxxxx]

Just one thought if she really loves antique things it could very well be that she want's an antique setting. The recommended vendors all make beautiful settings but obviously they don't have a "history" which could be an important factor for your girlfriend. The thought of wearing something a woman wore 100 years ago!


If you have the feeling that's the case then I would check out erstwhile jewellery they sell antique settings with antique diamonds. I'm almost 100% sure her inspiration pics are from their website. The downside is that you have to pick a ring and can't pick the nicest diamond and then put it in the nicest setting. On the otherhand is also makes it easier. This wouldn't be a typical Pricescope User move but it could be the right solution (especially time effecient solution) for you.
Here a nice ring in your budget with a slightly warm stone (Color K).
https://erstwhilejewelry.com/collec...s/1-60-carat-art-deco-diamond-engagement-ring

I would prefer a repro cut because of the 100% guarantee of great light performance and the possibility of designing my own setting. But having a real antique ring is also very enticing.

 

[Huge Metal Fan]

We looked at maybe 30 setting options this morning, many of them from recommendations in this thread. She really liked 3 CVB designs, but her favorite was the Elsa. I really like this one too, it speaks to me in a way I haven't felt with most of the Edwardian & Art Deco style settings she favors. So it's a huge relief to me to feel like I've found a setting we both will love.



I also learned that she definitely prefers old European cuts. We're on vacation and a local jewelry store happened to have both to look at side by side and she liked OEC right off the bat. We looked at some of the competition videos from this thread and her OEC preference is consistent. On to finding the stone!

 

[telephone89]

Great progress!! That is a really beautiful style setting.

 

[OoohShiny]

Excellent research!

 

[KKJohnson]

that is fantastic news about what she prefers and the setting that was picked is stunning!

If you want a true antique diamond I would recommend reaching out to https://www.oldworlddiamonds.com/ for a stone or looking at what https://www.jewelsbygrace.com/ has in stock, I am not sure if CVB can source a stone either but maybe

 

[Huge Metal Fan]

I was able to reach CVB and she recommended this stone given my/our preferences:
https://www.augustvintageinc.net/co...ct-j-vs1-august-vintage-european-cut-74547227
She thought this VC stone was a close runner up but would not perform as well because of the fairly significant inclusion right under the table:
https://www.victorcanera.com/diamonds/ags104099118006-1.511-j-vs2-old-european-cut
However I have a gut feeling for some reason this VC would shine really well in person. I wish I could back this feeling up with reasoning!

I emailed AVR and requested ASET/IS images for the stone above and these two as well:
https://www.augustvintageinc.net/co...ct-j-vs2-august-vintage-european-cut-74570217
https://www.augustvintageinc.net/co...ct-f-vs2-august-vintage-european-cut-74590075

I feel less comfortable making this kind of decision without an HCA type tool helping me narrow down. I don't quite trust my MK I eyeballs. I like the idea of getting a lower color stone (the AVR 1.54 F VS2) but 65% premium ($18,700 vs $11,400) to go up 4 color grades seems steep to me. I feel like in MRBs the color premium differential is not as steep, but maybe it's because in MRB a 1.5 in D-E-F range is not super difficult to find fitting in my $15-16K desired price range.

I'm not super comfortable with the idea of an antique stone. I looked at the images on Jewels by Grace, she helpfully provides very many, but the polish & symmetry on her stones is lower grade compared to VC & AVR. They look nice in video but I keep wondering how much lighting setting is optimized to make them look their best. I feel like a new cut stone made with modern equipment/techniques should produce much better visual performance. Maybe I am just searching for "mind clean" diamonds here!

 

[lovedogs]

I strongly disagree that the VC stone won't perform well. It's a VS2,and it's going to be beautiful. I love the avc also, and honestly think you can't go wrong. But please don't let anyone tell you that the VC won't perform well bc it's just outright wrong.

 

[Huge Metal Fan]

I finally ordered the ring. I knew we wanted the CVB Elsa, but I needed the time to get comfortable with the choice of stone. I ended up going with a 1.5 F VS2 OEC from August Vintage. It was a little (lot?) more than I wanted to spend but my gut kept feeling that I would not be happy with a higher color stone. This is an ASET image of the stone:

Here is the AGS report:

Link still shows the stone as of now, but showing sold out:
https://www.augustvintageinc.net/co...ct-f-vs2-august-vintage-european-cut-74590075

I feel pretty excited about this. I'm excited to continue building our life together as well. If anything, I'm a little worried she may feel the ring/stone is too much, because she is really not a flashy person and very frugal. But it is within the range of stone sizes she said would be good for her.

Now I need to figure out how I want to propose!

 

[Huge Metal Fan]

Completed ring has arrived! CVB beat her delivery lead time estimate by more than 2 weeks!!! This was a no customization ring. I'm very happy she under promised/over delivered.
Apologies for the image and video quality. I will try to post better quality when I'm not at work.

 

[HDer]

Beautiful ring!

 

[lovedogs]

Oh my goodness what a lovely outcome! Congrats!

 

[hypermom]

Wow! That is one amazing ring. Please come back and let us know what she thinks.

 

[mwilliamanderson]

It’s perfection! Congratulations.

 

[Huge Metal Fan]

Saying she was happy would be a dramatic understatement. I actually had to calm her down for a few minutes after the presentation.

I got home from work early to set things up - LED candles, tying a ribbon with a ring on it to a very squirmy cat, placating said cat (Olive) with treats. When she got home from work I asked her to come look at what Olive was doing. She asked why I was acting weird and I guided her hand to the ribbon with the ring on it. I actually held up Olive when I got down on one knee, which I think was suitably goofy and "us". As she figured out what was happening she got short of breath and starting saying "what? wait, what?" repeatedly, so I hugged her for 2-3 minutes and told her I loved her and everything is OK. She was just very overwhelmed, so I am super glad I decided to do it at home. I think part of her mind had still thought this day wouldn't come and she'd be disappointed again. After we calmed down we had time to call parents, talk, and snuggle, and then went out for dinner at a nice wine bar with great views for sunsets. It was a beautiful evening and I'm very happy with how everything went.

I believe she's happy with the ring as well. She's not been gushing a ton about how beautiful it is, etc. But I have noticed she takes it off when sleeping, or showering, or doing anything "dirty" with her hands. I'm interpreting it as abundance of caution. She was also reluctant to be separated from it to get the sizing corrected. I think I sort of expected her to gush about it more, but I think that says something about me being too materially focused.

For myself, I am super happy with the ring and diamond. The setting is dainty and elegant and really fits her personality. The diamond has a crazy amount of colored light return, and seems to have a way of looking good from every angle and in all sorts of lighting conditions. I took a ton of pictures trying to capture what I mean, but I think it needs something better than a phone camera.

 

[rockysalamander]

Saying she was happy would be a dramatic understatement. I actually had to calm her down for a few minutes after the presentation.

I got home from work early to set things up - LED candles, tying a ribbon with a ring on it to a very squirmy cat, placating said cat (Olive) with treats. When she got home from work I asked her to come look at what Olive was doing. She asked why I was acting weird and I guided her hand to the ribbon with the ring on it. I actually held up Olive when I got down on one knee, which I think was suitably goofy and "us". As she figured out what was happening she got short of breath and starting saying "what? wait, what?" repeatedly, so I hugged her for 2-3 minutes and told her I loved her and everything is OK. She was just very overwhelmed, so I am super glad I decided to do it at home. I think part of her mind had still thought this day wouldn't come and she'd be disappointed again. After we calmed down we had time to call parents, talk, and snuggle, and then went out for dinner at a nice wine bar with great views for sunsets. It was a beautiful evening and I'm very happy with how everything went.

I believe she's happy with the ring as well. She's not been gushing a ton about how beautiful it is, etc. But I have noticed she takes it off when sleeping, or showering, or doing anything "dirty" with her hands. I'm interpreting it as abundance of caution. She was also reluctant to be separated from it to get the sizing corrected. I think I sort of expected her to gush about it more, but I think that says something about me being too materially focused.

For myself, I am super happy with the ring and diamond. The setting is dainty and elegant and really fits her personality. The diamond has a crazy amount of colored light return, and seems to have a way of looking good from every angle and in all sorts of lighting conditions. I took a ton of pictures trying to capture what I mean, but I think it needs something better than a phone camera.

Congrats!!!

 

[Siamese Kitty]

Absolutely stunning! Great work! Congratulations to you both.

 

[tyty333]

It's gorgeous! What a sweet proposal...Congratulations!