which aspects of a diamond are most important to a normal person?

[brenton]

I have a somewhat complicated question. It is kind of a two-in-one question, though the second depends on the first. Ultimately,
I want to rank which aspects of a diamond are the most important to a normal person.

What is the cutoff point for the different aspects of diamonds at which the average person would not be able to detect the difference. For example, I'm sure all you guys can see the difference between a F and a G diamond, but I bet my GF would never notice the color in a G, except maybe after years of looking at it.

Now with that in mind, which aspects of a diamond are the most important? For example, the first and most impressive thing anyone will notice is the size, whereas your average Jane is never going to notice or care about polish. I don't know much about diamonds, but I would guess that the order of importance would rank something generally like this order:

Carat, color, clarity, cut, table, symmetry, culet, fluorescence, polish.

Things get complicated in extreme cases though: normally, inclusions won't be that noticeable to someone like my GF. However, a really huge inclusion would be noticeable right away by almost anyone--and could therefore become *more* important than size even.

That is where the first part of my question comes into play. I want to rank the order of importance of the different ways to evaluate a diamond--but *excluding* all diamonds that would be immediately noticeable as lacking in some way.

Does all that make sense? I'm sure this is somewhat subjective, but I bet there is a surprising amount of consensus.

I feel like with a list of the cut-off points and a rank of which aspects are most important, a buyer (like myself

) would be very well equipped to choose a diamond that will be cost efficient and well-loved despite it's flaws.

After learning about diamonds online for one day, here are my thoughts on the order:
1. Carat: the bigger the better unless there are other considerations.
2. Color: no lower than H, no higher than F
3. Clarity: Between VS2 and SI1 (nothing naked-eye noticeable)
4. Cut: I don't understand cut that much, but I can't see how a somewhat bad cut would be worse than somewhat bad clarity.
5. Symmetry: who is going to notice this unless it's really bad. Maybe it will contribute to the lighting slightly?
6. Cutlet, Fluorescence, Polish: no normal person will ever care about these except in extreme or narrow cases.

What do y'all think? Agree? Disagree?

 

[Deelight]

Date: 11/4/2008 2:30:08 AM
Author:brenton
I have a somewhat complicated question. It is kind of a two-in-one question, though the second depends on the first. Ultimately,

I want to rank which aspects of a diamond are the most important to a normal person.


What is the cutoff point for the different aspects of diamonds at which the average person would not be able to detect the difference. For example, I'm sure all you guys can see the difference between a F and a G diamond, but I bet my GF would never notice the color in a G, except maybe after years of looking at it.


Now with that in mind, which aspects of a diamond are the most important? For example, the first and most impressive thing anyone will notice is the size, whereas your average Jane is never going to notice or care about polish. I don't know much about diamonds, but I would guess that the order of importance would rank something generally like this order:


Carat, color, clarity, cut, table, symmetry, culet, fluorescence, polish.


Things get complicated in extreme cases though: normally, inclusions won't be that noticeable to someone like my GF. However, a really huge inclusion would be noticeable right away by almost anyone--and could therefore become *more* important than size even.


That is where the first part of my question comes into play. I want to rank the order of importance of the different ways to evaluate a diamond--but *excluding* all diamonds that would be immediately noticeable as lacking in some way.


Does all that make sense? I'm sure this is somewhat subjective, but I bet there is a surprising amount of consensus.


I feel like with a list of the cut-off points and a rank of which aspects are most important, a buyer (like myself

) would be very well equipped to choose a diamond that will be cost efficient and well-loved despite it's flaws.

Yup your right it is really subjective

Personally I value Cut/Colour/Clarity equally and wouldn't want to sacrifice either but would be willing to sacrifice carat for the above and I did.

You will get a variety of answers to this question no one is right or wrong but I would advise to balance of all the above .

 

[honey22]

We are not normal people, we are PSers

.

To the average Joe buying from a maul store, they would probably say carat, but around here, us cut freaks can safely say Cut Is King!!! And I for one, would never sacrifice cut for the other Cs.

One look into that little box of magic from WF - I saw an ACA, I fell in love. Game over

 

[Indira-London]

Size and cut are interrelated - you cannot observe one without the other:

Which diamond do you think is the larger carat in the diagram below?

The stone on the left is actually smaller carat weight (ca. 0.8 carat) than the one on the right ( ca. 1 carat), but it looks larger because it has the topmost cut quality and hence is returning light from edge-to-edge.

Whilst the average person may not understand about Cut quality, CUT quality is KING - it is the KEY to sparkle AND visual apparent size!
A well-cut diamond will LOOK bigger and sparkle more than a commercial or average cut larger carat diamond!

 

[Indira-London]

oops here is the picture - it did not load properly last time

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 11/4/2008 2:55:02 AM
Author: honey22
We are not normal people, we are PSers

.

To the average Joe buying from a maul store, they would probably say carat, but around here, us cut freaks can safely say Cut Is King!!! And I for one, would never sacrifice cut for the other Cs.

One look into that little box of magic from WF - I saw an ACA, I fell in love. Game over

Exactly what I was going to say, lol..

You will get a varied response from everyone - but most will put cut first. I don't think many here will agree with your list - do a little reading and you will understand why. Cut will influence everything else ( and we're not talking round, princess etc) - we mean the proportions, angles, symmetry and precision to which it was cut.
If you have an ideal cut RB, you can "sacrifice" on colour and clarity some and still have a white, clear stone - the sparkle, fire, scintillation etc will mask these characteristics to an extent.
With re to carat weight, not all 1ct, 2ct etc stones are equal - you must look at the diameter measurements. As per Indira's handy photo, a poorly cut stone will face up smaller than its well cut counterpart in the same ct weight..
Anyways, I could bang on all day, but all this has been explained alot better by others if you care to hang around and read

List for me goes: Cut, Carat, Clarity then Colour ( these last2 can be exchanged depending..).....and cost is somewhere at the back of my mind, trying to be ignored..lol

With re to "cutoffs", again it is subjective - some people are more colour sensitive than others. But if someone tells you they can see the difference between an F and G, all other things equal, they are not being honest

I have read often the opinion of the pros is that in well cut stones, the "average" consumer starts to see a tint of warmth around I.
Any differences from D-G are pretty much not discernable to the untrained observer. And some actually prefer the slight "warmth" that comes with lower coloured stones - myself included. I have an ideal cut K SI1 that is whiterand brighter than any D I have seen - this is due to the benefit of the great cut. It doesn't show any yellow at all, which is what most would expect..than again, maybe I'm just not colour sensitive..

Ha ha Indira, you love that picture

 

[strmrdr]

your budget.
cut? technical best with best appearance? or best level appearance but not technical best?
eyeclean? or mind clean?
looks white? or bragging rights?

Determine what size/ct weight.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 11/4/2008 4:07:30 AM
Author: strmrdr
your budget.
cut? technical best with best appearance? or best level appearance but not technical best?
eyeclean? or mind clean?
looks white? or bragging rights?

Determine what size/ct weight.

Ditto that, same here.

 

[brenton]

Wow. I never would have thought that the cut could affect the other things so much... even size!

In talking about cuts, do we mean like Ideal vs. Premium vs. Good, or do I need to look at all the other stuff like depth, girdle, table, and symmetry? How can I possibly know how good the cut is without becoming an expert?

It is crazy--I mean, ultimately I don''t care about getting the "technically" best diamond or the one that is perfect--I just want one that looks good. And yet I feel like I need to learn all this complicated stuff to be able to judge that. Is there any objective measure, or is the cut something that you just have to judge on a case by case basis? Where can I learn more about cuts?

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 11/4/2008 4:44:35 AM
Author: brenton
Wow. I never would have thought that the cut could affect the other things so much... even size!

In talking about cuts, do we mean like Ideal vs. Premium vs. Good, or do I need to look at all the other stuff like depth, girdle, table, and symmetry? How can I possibly know how good the cut is without becoming an expert?

It is crazy--I mean, ultimately I don't care about getting the 'technically' best diamond or the one that is perfect--I just want one that looks good. And yet I feel like I need to learn all this complicated stuff to be able to judge that. Is there any objective measure, or is the cut something that you just have to judge on a case by case basis? Where can I learn more about cuts?

We will help you through it, this stuff can be daunting for those new to diamonds and that is why it is important for us to keep it simple if the poster doesn't want to get into the number crunching!

As to Ideal, Premium, Excellent and Very Good cuts - two things to watch out for. Ideal as used by AGS to describe their AGS0 cut quality diamonds - you can be fairly sure you will get a well cut stone.

Ideal as used by some vendors to describe their diamonds, you need to be more discerning. Ideal, Premium and VG are commonly used by some sellers to describe a diamond's cut quality, but it does not guarantee you a well cut stone.

Perhaps the easiest way for you to proceed might be this. If you want a top notch cut then look at AGS0 cut grade diamonds. These should be a fairly safe bet that you will end up with a good looking stone. You can post the details of ANY diamond you are interested in, and we will gladly help you to assess it.

Or you can also look at GIA Excellent cut grade. Now this cut grading can allow for some less desirable cut combos, so you need to evaluate each on its own merits. You can do that by using this tool, the Holloway Cut Advisor here . This should help eliminate the lesser performers leaving you with the best ones to concentrate on. In most cases aim to score below 2 and remember a lower score isn't better than a higher one. Once you have a stone which scores 2 or below, then request an Idealscope image from the vendor, post it here and we can look at it for you. Also in some cases diamonds which score over 2 with top symmetry can also be good stones, but you need Idealscope images to be able to confirm this generally. Girdle thickness, avoid extremes, thin to medium, slightly thin to slightly thick etc are all a good range.

If you just want a good looking diamond which isn't cut to top make standards, then with the help you can get here you could look at AGS1 and GIA Very Good cut grades, there can sometimes be some good stones found within those.

As to where you can learn more about cuts, this advanced tutorial makes good reading so you can familiarize yourself with most aspects concerning diamonds.

 

[stone-cold11]

Date: 11/4/2008 4:44:35 AM
Author: brenton
Wow. I never would have thought that the cut could affect the other things so much... even size!

In talking about cuts, do we mean like Ideal vs. Premium vs. Good, or do I need to look at all the other stuff like depth, girdle, table, and symmetry? How can I possibly know how good the cut is without becoming an expert?

It is crazy--I mean, ultimately I don''t care about getting the ''technically'' best diamond or the one that is perfect--I just want one that looks good. And yet I feel like I need to learn all this complicated stuff to be able to judge that. Is there any objective measure, or is the cut something that you just have to judge on a case by case basis? Where can I learn more about cuts?

The only grading report on RB performance we trust is AGS Diamond Quality Document report with a cut grade of AGS0. For any other reports, we will like to use
the HCA with the diamond''s dimensions as input to see it predicted performance. Scoring below a HCA = 2 is considered a good candidate for further inspections.

Gridle, we would like it to be moderate thickness, not extremely thin or thick, thin will have durability issue and thick will hide too much weight resulting in less bang for bucks.

A rough guide to what parameters to consider in searching for an ideal cut is found here. Good luck in your search. Or if you like, tell us your parameters and the price you are willing to pay for and we can see if we can find one for you with the online vendors on PS.

 

[Regular Guy]

Date: 11/4/2008 4:44:35 AM
Author: brenton
Wow. I never would have thought that the cut could affect the other things so much... even size!

In talking about cuts, do we mean like Ideal vs. Premium vs. Good, or do I need to look at all the other stuff like depth, girdle, table, and symmetry? How can I possibly know how good the cut is without becoming an expert?

It is crazy--I mean, ultimately I don't care about getting the 'technically' best diamond or the one that is perfect--I just want one that looks good. And yet I feel like I need to learn all this complicated stuff to be able to judge that. Is there any objective measure, or is the cut something that you just have to judge on a case by case basis? Where can I learn more about cuts?

Yes, cut is multidimensional, and no...unfortunately, it's not really reasonable to trust different vendors or agency's rankings.

Some experience on this board suggests a few strategies:

If round, use this tool (also upper right under tools/cut advisor) against virtually any diamond...unless it has a pedigree that trumps the analysis for it. Like with a grading report from AGS showing 0...which has embedded an HCA type of research process.

If non round, use reflector technology (find a vendor who uses an IS or ASET to control for lighting upon examination, or get one yourself to perform). Read about these at upper right under tools/Idealscope.

As Michael Cowing has been trying to explain here, if you wish to pursue granular discussion on this), what these tools do is bring the multi dimensions necessary for reasonable evaluation together into one generally yes or no output, allowing you to include the many dimensions, and not go too crazy.

(edited to add)...and there you have it...in 3 minutes variance of time...you have 3 wacky writers saying very much of the same thing! I forgot to add...but do follow Lorelei's link to the tutorial here, which should be very helpful.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 11/4/2008 5:03:53 AM
Author: Stone-cold11

Date: 11/4/2008 4:44:35 AM
Author: brenton
Wow. I never would have thought that the cut could affect the other things so much... even size!

In talking about cuts, do we mean like Ideal vs. Premium vs. Good, or do I need to look at all the other stuff like depth, girdle, table, and symmetry? How can I possibly know how good the cut is without becoming an expert?

It is crazy--I mean, ultimately I don't care about getting the 'technically' best diamond or the one that is perfect--I just want one that looks good. And yet I feel like I need to learn all this complicated stuff to be able to judge that. Is there any objective measure, or is the cut something that you just have to judge on a case by case basis? Where can I learn more about cuts?

The only grading report on RB performance we trust is AGS Diamond Quality Document report with a cut grade of AGS0. For any other reports, we will like to use
the HCA with the diamond's dimensions as input to see it predicted performance. Scoring below a HCA = 2 is considered a good candidate for further inspections.

Gridle, we would like it to be moderate thickness, not extremely thin or thick, thin will have durability issue and thick will hide too much weight resulting in less bang for bucks.

A rough guide to what parameters to consider in searching for an ideal cut is found here. Good luck in your search. Or if you like, tell us your parameters and the price you are willing to pay for and we can see if we can find one for you with the online vendors on PS.

SC, did you mean to say very thin or extremely thin girdles might occasionally have durability issues?

 

[stone-cold11]

Date: 11/4/2008 5:07:52 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 11/4/2008 5:03:53 AM

Author: Stone-cold11

Date: 11/4/2008 4:44:35 AM

Author: brenton

Wow. I never would have thought that the cut could affect the other things so much... even size!

In talking about cuts, do we mean like Ideal vs. Premium vs. Good, or do I need to look at all the other stuff like depth, girdle, table, and symmetry? How can I possibly know how good the cut is without becoming an expert?

It is crazy--I mean, ultimately I don''t care about getting the ''technically'' best diamond or the one that is perfect--I just want one that looks good. And yet I feel like I need to learn all this complicated stuff to be able to judge that. Is there any objective measure, or is the cut something that you just have to judge on a case by case basis? Where can I learn more about cuts?

The only grading report on RB performance we trust is AGS Diamond Quality Document report with a cut grade of AGS0. For any other reports, we will like to use

the HCA with the diamond''s dimensions as input to see it predicted performance. Scoring below a HCA = 2 is considered a good candidate for further inspections.

Gridle, we would like it to be moderate thickness, not extremely thin or thick, thin will have durability issue and thick will hide too much weight resulting in less bang for bucks.

A rough guide to what parameters to consider in searching for an ideal cut is found here. Good luck in your search. Or if you like, tell us your parameters and the price you are willing to pay for and we can see if we can find one for you with the online vendors on PS.

SC, did you mean to say very thin or extremely thin girdles might occasionally have durability issues?

As you have quoted, but extend to the entire line. Extremely thin girdles will have durability issue, extremely thick girdles will hide weight if that makes it easier to understand.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 11/4/2008 5:30:50 AM
Author: Stone-cold11

Date: 11/4/2008 5:07:52 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 11/4/2008 5:03:53 AM

Author: Stone-cold11

Date: 11/4/2008 4:44:35 AM

Author: brenton

Wow. I never would have thought that the cut could affect the other things so much... even size!

In talking about cuts, do we mean like Ideal vs. Premium vs. Good, or do I need to look at all the other stuff like depth, girdle, table, and symmetry? How can I possibly know how good the cut is without becoming an expert?

It is crazy--I mean, ultimately I don''t care about getting the ''technically'' best diamond or the one that is perfect--I just want one that looks good. And yet I feel like I need to learn all this complicated stuff to be able to judge that. Is there any objective measure, or is the cut something that you just have to judge on a case by case basis? Where can I learn more about cuts?

The only grading report on RB performance we trust is AGS Diamond Quality Document report with a cut grade of AGS0. For any other reports, we will like to use

the HCA with the diamond''s dimensions as input to see it predicted performance. Scoring below a HCA = 2 is considered a good candidate for further inspections.

Gridle, we would like it to be moderate thickness, not extremely thin or thick, thin will have durability issue and thick will hide too much weight resulting in less bang for bucks.

A rough guide to what parameters to consider in searching for an ideal cut is found here. Good luck in your search. Or if you like, tell us your parameters and the price you are willing to pay for and we can see if we can find one for you with the online vendors on PS.

SC, did you mean to say very thin or extremely thin girdles might occasionally have durability issues?

As you have quoted, but extend to the entire line. Extremely thin girdles will have durability issue, extremely thick girdles will hide weight if that makes it easier to understand.

I read it to mean that you were saying thin girdles will have durability issues which isn''t the case as we know.

 

[Indira-London]

Date: 11/4/2008 3:26:48 AM
Author: arjunajane

Date: 11/4/2008 2:55:02 AM
Author: honey22
We are not normal people, we are PSers

.

To the average Joe buying from a maul store, they would probably say carat, but around here, us cut freaks can safely say Cut Is King!!! And I for one, would never sacrifice cut for the other Cs.

One look into that little box of magic from WF - I saw an ACA, I fell in love. Game over

Exactly what I was going to say, lol..

You will get a varied response from everyone - but most will put cut first. I don''t think many here will agree with your list - do a little reading and you will understand why. Cut will influence everything else ( and we''re not talking round, princess etc) - we mean the proportions, angles, symmetry and precision to which it was cut.
If you have an ideal cut RB, you can ''sacrifice'' on colour and clarity some and still have a white, clear stone - the sparkle, fire, scintillation etc will mask these characteristics to an extent.
With re to carat weight, not all 1ct, 2ct etc stones are equal - you must look at the diameter measurements. As per Indira''s handy photo, a poorly cut stone will face up smaller than its well cut counterpart in the same ct weight..
Anyways, I could bang on all day, but all this has been explained alot better by others if you care to hang around and read

List for me goes: Cut, Carat, Clarity then Colour ( these last2 can be exchanged depending..).....and cost is somewhere at the back of my mind, trying to be ignored..lol

With re to ''cutoffs'', again it is subjective - some people are more colour sensitive than others. But if someone tells you they can see the difference between an F and G, all other things equal, they are not being honest

I have read often the opinion of the pros is that in well cut stones, the ''average'' consumer starts to see a tint of warmth around I.
Any differences from D-G are pretty much not discernable to the untrained observer. And some actually prefer the slight ''warmth'' that comes with lower coloured stones - myself included. I have an ideal cut K SI1 that is whiterand brighter than any D I have seen - this is due to the benefit of the great cut. It doesn''t show any yellow at all, which is what most would expect..than again, maybe I''m just not colour sensitive..

Ha ha Indira, you love that picture

yes you got me on that! I prefer pictures to words whenever possible as diamonds are a visual feast and one that I never tire of looking at!

 

[Sharon101]

Date: 11/4/2008 2:30:08 AM
Author:brenton
I have a somewhat complicated question. It is kind of a two-in-one question, though the second depends on the first. Ultimately,
I want to rank which aspects of a diamond are the most important to a normal person.

What is the cutoff point for the different aspects of diamonds at which the average person would not be able to detect the difference. For example, I''m sure all you guys can see the difference between a F and a G diamond, but I bet my GF would never notice the color in a G, except maybe after years of looking at it.

Now with that in mind, which aspects of a diamond are the most important? For example, the first and most impressive thing anyone will notice is the size, whereas your average Jane is never going to notice or care about polish. I don''t know much about diamonds, but I would guess that the order of importance would rank something generally like this order:

Carat, color, clarity, cut, table, symmetry, culet, fluorescence, polish.

Things get complicated in extreme cases though: normally, inclusions won''t be that noticeable to someone like my GF. However, a really huge inclusion would be noticeable right away by almost anyone--and could therefore become *more* important than size even.

That is where the first part of my question comes into play. I want to rank the order of importance of the different ways to evaluate a diamond--but *excluding* all diamonds that would be immediately noticeable as lacking in some way.

Does all that make sense? I''m sure this is somewhat subjective, but I bet there is a surprising amount of consensus.

I feel like with a list of the cut-off points and a rank of which aspects are most important, a buyer (like myself

) would be very well equipped to choose a diamond that will be cost efficient and well-loved despite it''s flaws.

After learning about diamonds online for one day, here are my thoughts on the order:
1. Carat: the bigger the better unless there are other considerations.
2. Color: no lower than H, no higher than F
3. Clarity: Between VS2 and SI1 (nothing naked-eye noticeable)
4. Cut: I don''t understand cut that much, but I can''t see how a somewhat bad cut would be worse than somewhat bad clarity.
5. Symmetry: who is going to notice this unless it''s really bad. Maybe it will contribute to the lighting slightly?
6. Cutlet, Fluorescence, Polish: no normal person will ever care about these except in extreme or narrow cases.

What do y''all think? Agree? Disagree?

To a normal person it is about the size. But, within reason you can only go lower in the other C`s to a point. Where this point is will depend on your views.

Even within the range of different cut qualities, what the human eye can detect between a good cut and a great cut is debatable. It becomes like having a VS1 where you are paying for something, or sacrificing other C`s for something that cant be seen.

I am anactdotal evidence that my large diamond, which is pretty but poorly cut, gets so much attension and compliments that it is beyond belief. In the real world if it looks pretty, is reasonably white, and has a large size it will get heaps of praise.

But, thats not to say that a better cut is not worthwhile. It is really a personal choice, and certainly most here aim for top cut above all else.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 11/4/2008 5:54:01 AM
Author: Indira-London

Date: 11/4/2008 3:26:48 AM
Author: arjunajane

Date: 11/4/2008 2:55:02 AM
Author: honey22
We are not normal people, we are PSers

.

To the average Joe buying from a maul store, they would probably say carat, but around here, us cut freaks can safely say Cut Is King!!! And I for one, would never sacrifice cut for the other Cs.

One look into that little box of magic from WF - I saw an ACA, I fell in love. Game over

Exactly what I was going to say, lol..

You will get a varied response from everyone - but most will put cut first. I don't think many here will agree with your list - do a little reading and you will understand why. Cut will influence everything else ( and we're not talking round, princess etc) - we mean the proportions, angles, symmetry and precision to which it was cut.
If you have an ideal cut RB, you can 'sacrifice' on colour and clarity some and still have a white, clear stone - the sparkle, fire, scintillation etc will mask these characteristics to an extent.
With re to carat weight, not all 1ct, 2ct etc stones are equal - you must look at the diameter measurements. As per Indira's handy photo, a poorly cut stone will face up smaller than its well cut counterpart in the same ct weight..
Anyways, I could bang on all day, but all this has been explained alot better by others if you care to hang around and read

List for me goes: Cut, Carat, Clarity then Colour ( these last2 can be exchanged depending..).....and cost is somewhere at the back of my mind, trying to be ignored..lol

With re to 'cutoffs', again it is subjective - some people are more colour sensitive than others. But if someone tells you they can see the difference between an F and G, all other things equal, they are not being honest

I have read often the opinion of the pros is that in well cut stones, the 'average' consumer starts to see a tint of warmth around I.
Any differences from D-G are pretty much not discernable to the untrained observer. And some actually prefer the slight 'warmth' that comes with lower coloured stones - myself included. I have an ideal cut K SI1 that is whiterand brighter than any D I have seen - this is due to the benefit of the great cut. It doesn't show any yellow at all, which is what most would expect..than again, maybe I'm just not colour sensitive..

Ha ha Indira, you love that picture

yes you got me on that! I prefer pictures to words whenever possible as diamonds are a visual feast and one that I never tire of looking at!

That must be great fun having all these sparkly rocks to play with Indira!

And that is absolutely correct Sharon " I am anactdotal evidence that my large diamond, which is pretty but poorly cut, gets so much attension and compliments that it is beyond belief. In the real world if it looks pretty, is reasonably white, and has a large size it will get heaps of praise."

Not everyone wants a top cut stone and there can be pleasing diamonds certainly which fall somewere in the middle cut qualities perhaps which can be a great choice for some.

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 11/4/2008 5:54:01 AM
Author: Indira-London

Date: 11/4/2008 3:26:48 AM
Author: arjunajane

Date: 11/4/2008 2:55:02 AM
Author: honey22
We are not normal people, we are PSers

.

To the average Joe buying from a maul store, they would probably say carat, but around here, us cut freaks can safely say Cut Is King!!! And I for one, would never sacrifice cut for the other Cs.

One look into that little box of magic from WF - I saw an ACA, I fell in love. Game over

Exactly what I was going to say, lol..

You will get a varied response from everyone - but most will put cut first. I don''t think many here will agree with your list - do a little reading and you will understand why. Cut will influence everything else ( and we''re not talking round, princess etc) - we mean the proportions, angles, symmetry and precision to which it was cut.
If you have an ideal cut RB, you can ''sacrifice'' on colour and clarity some and still have a white, clear stone - the sparkle, fire, scintillation etc will mask these characteristics to an extent.
With re to carat weight, not all 1ct, 2ct etc stones are equal - you must look at the diameter measurements. As per Indira''s handy photo, a poorly cut stone will face up smaller than its well cut counterpart in the same ct weight..
Anyways, I could bang on all day, but all this has been explained alot better by others if you care to hang around and read

List for me goes: Cut, Carat, Clarity then Colour ( these last2 can be exchanged depending..).....and cost is somewhere at the back of my mind, trying to be ignored..lol

With re to ''cutoffs'', again it is subjective - some people are more colour sensitive than others. But if someone tells you they can see the difference between an F and G, all other things equal, they are not being honest

I have read often the opinion of the pros is that in well cut stones, the ''average'' consumer starts to see a tint of warmth around I.
Any differences from D-G are pretty much not discernable to the untrained observer. And some actually prefer the slight ''warmth'' that comes with lower coloured stones - myself included. I have an ideal cut K SI1 that is whiterand brighter than any D I have seen - this is due to the benefit of the great cut. It doesn''t show any yellow at all, which is what most would expect..than again, maybe I''m just not colour sensitive..

Ha ha Indira, you love that picture

yes you got me on that! I prefer pictures to words whenever possible as diamonds are a visual feast and one that I never tire of looking at!

I''m with you on that one honey!
And He he

Yes, I had noticed, but you are right to post it, that picture does speak volumes!


To Brenton, I apologize if I squeezed too much into my original post there - you sounded like you had done some research and could handle it

I don''t think you need to become an expert to understand all this business of cut - infact everyone on this thread (bar Indira of course

), are simply consumers who are enthused about diamonds.
Some have become what we call "prosumers" due to their long time on PS and vast knowledge.
I personally learnt all I know (not that much

) since looking for an e-ring earlier this year - most of us started out in the postion you are in now.

How much you want to learn is up to you - the posters here such as Lorelei are whizzes at helping ppl find wonderful stones to choose from - you can just post your specs and let them do the legwork if you like (shhh...they like it!)...

There are a number of PS-recommended vendors such as Good Old Gold and Whiteflash which have very high quality products and even better customer service, they can also help you get a ring from start to finish.

Or, there is hours worth of reading if you''d like to be more pro-active.
There are no hard and fast rules - except for maybe that Cut Is King, lol - and we are happy to help.

 

[Tuckins1]

No way... Cut should be number 1! Without a good cut, a D FL stone will look dull and lifeless!!!

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 11/4/2008 6:30:34 AM
Author: arjunajane

Date: 11/4/2008 5:54:01 AM
Author: Indira-London

Date: 11/4/2008 3:26:48 AM
Author: arjunajane

Date: 11/4/2008 2:55:02 AM
Author: honey22
We are not normal people, we are PSers

.

To the average Joe buying from a maul store, they would probably say carat, but around here, us cut freaks can safely say Cut Is King!!! And I for one, would never sacrifice cut for the other Cs.

One look into that little box of magic from WF - I saw an ACA, I fell in love. Game over

Exactly what I was going to say, lol..

You will get a varied response from everyone - but most will put cut first. I don''t think many here will agree with your list - do a little reading and you will understand why. Cut will influence everything else ( and we''re not talking round, princess etc) - we mean the proportions, angles, symmetry and precision to which it was cut.
If you have an ideal cut RB, you can ''sacrifice'' on colour and clarity some and still have a white, clear stone - the sparkle, fire, scintillation etc will mask these characteristics to an extent.
With re to carat weight, not all 1ct, 2ct etc stones are equal - you must look at the diameter measurements. As per Indira''s handy photo, a poorly cut stone will face up smaller than its well cut counterpart in the same ct weight..
Anyways, I could bang on all day, but all this has been explained alot better by others if you care to hang around and read

List for me goes: Cut, Carat, Clarity then Colour ( these last2 can be exchanged depending..).....and cost is somewhere at the back of my mind, trying to be ignored..lol

With re to ''cutoffs'', again it is subjective - some people are more colour sensitive than others. But if someone tells you they can see the difference between an F and G, all other things equal, they are not being honest

I have read often the opinion of the pros is that in well cut stones, the ''average'' consumer starts to see a tint of warmth around I.
Any differences from D-G are pretty much not discernable to the untrained observer. And some actually prefer the slight ''warmth'' that comes with lower coloured stones - myself included. I have an ideal cut K SI1 that is whiterand brighter than any D I have seen - this is due to the benefit of the great cut. It doesn''t show any yellow at all, which is what most would expect..than again, maybe I''m just not colour sensitive..

Ha ha Indira, you love that picture

yes you got me on that! I prefer pictures to words whenever possible as diamonds are a visual feast and one that I never tire of looking at!

I''m with you on that one honey!
And He he

Yes, I had noticed, but you are right to post it, that picture does speak volumes!


To Brenton, I apologize if I squeezed too much into my original post there - you sounded like you had done some research and could handle it

I don''t think you need to become an expert to understand all this business of cut - infact everyone on this thread (bar Indira of course

), are simply consumers who are enthused about diamonds.
Some have become what we call ''prosumers'' due to their long time on PS and vast knowledge.
I personally learnt all I know (not that much

) since looking for an e-ring earlier this year - most of us started out in the postion you are in now.

How much you want to learn is up to you - the posters here such as Lorelei are whizzes at helping ppl find wonderful stones to choose from - you can just post your specs and let them do the legwork if you like (shhh...they like it!)...

There are a number of PS-recommended vendors such as Good Old Gold and Whiteflash which have very high quality products and even better customer service, they can also help you get a ring from start to finish.

Or, there is hours worth of reading if you''d like to be more pro-active.
There are no hard and fast rules - except for maybe that Cut Is King, lol - and we are happy to help.

LOL!!!

 

[Moh 10]

"Normal" is just a number. It doesn't make something right or desirable. It always mystifies me how people take comfort in clinging to "being normal".

You could say that being left handed is not normal. Neither is having red hair. In fact, being a man could be said to be not normal since there are more women than men in the world.

Relax. Instead of looking to others look into yourself to discover what you want.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 11/4/2008 7:11:32 AM
Author: Moh 10
''Normal'' is just a number. It always mystifies me how people take comfort in clinging to ''being normal''.

You could say that being left handed is not normal. Neither is having red hair. In fact, being a man could be said to be not normal since there are more women than men in the world.

Relax.
Look into yourself, not at others, to discover what you should want.

Wise words. Look at as many diamonds as you can also then it should become clearer as to what YOU find to be a beautiful enough diamond to present to your GF! Of course it is always helpful if you can do a little sly homework to find out what she would like!

 

[strmrdr]

The HCA combined with ideal-scope images is the best way to find well performing round diamonds that have high levels of appearance but might not be technically the best. (ie. don't care if its H&A or super-tight)
James Allen often has the best selection and best prices for these. You can request IS images.
www.jamesallen.com

Whiteflash ES line is another source.
www.whiteflash.com

 

[Avus00]

The only aspect you should be concerned with is seeing the stone in person.

Clarity, color etc. are just numbers. It's the combination of those and the interrelations.

You have to see various stones and pick the one that visually performs the best to you.


That's it.

I didn't even use PS or HCA or any of the other tools until I saw what stone I thought was the best. It ended up being a D, VS1, Excellent GIA cut.

It scored a 1.4 and I immediately jumped on it. It was the best performer to me and I probably looked at some stones that "should" be better because they are "better" on paper(e.g. AGS000, would score a .7-.9 on the HCA etc.), but did not perform like the stone I purchased.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 11/4/2008 8:53:29 AM
Author: Avus00
The only aspect you should be concerned with is seeing the stone in person.


Clarity, color etc. are just numbers. It''s the combination of those and the interrelations.


You have to see various stones and pick the one that visually performs the best to you.



That''s it.


I didn''t even use PS or HCA or any of the other tools until I saw what stone I thought was the best. It ended up being a D, VS1, Excellent GIA cut.


It scored a 1.4 and I immediately jumped on it. It was the best performer to me and I probably looked at some stones that ''should'' be better because they are ''better'' on paper(e.g. AGS000, would score a .7-.9 on the HCA etc.), but did not perform like the stone I purchased.

congrates on your diamond.
just a small point hca .7-.9 isn''t better than hca 1.4 and in some cases can be worse.
A hca score of 1.4 indicated the c/p angles have the potential to work well together.
Which is what your eyes told you :}

 

[Avus00]

strm,
Thanks. You''re absolutely right ... the diamond I bought is a case in point scenario.

 

[Allison D.]

Brenton, welcome to Pricescope.

I think most "normal" folks (meaning not diamond-obsessed) care about these things:

1. Does it sparkle?
2. Is it the size she wants?
3. Does it look white?
4. Do the inclusions show?

Sparkle tends to be the number one requirement for most casual buyers, and they don''t realize that cut is what affects sparkle. A well cut diamond of smaller carat weight not only sparkles more than a poorly cut larger stone, but it also LOOKS bigger.

Regarding size, it''s important to know that carat is a weight, not a size. If you want to know the ''size'' of a diamond, look at the diameter measurements. A well-cut 1 ct. stone will run around 6.5mm in diameter. If you go to a chain store in your mall, you''ll see stones listed as 1 ct., but they only measure about 6.2-ish mm; this is because they are cut so deeply that all the weight is held in the bottom of the stone where you don''t see it instead of in the circumference of a stone where you do see it.

Color matters to the extent that the diamond appears ''white'' or without color. If you stick to a well-cut stone, you can most likely buy a G, H, I, or J stone and have it look beautifully white. This is because a well-cut stone masks color, so cut does affect color.

Clarity matters to the extent most people don''t want to see visible inclusions in their diamonds when they wear them. That''s what most people here call "eyeclean". Again, cut masks clarity in round brilliant stones, so most stones in the SI1 or even SI2 range can still be eyeclean. Keep in mind that your individual eyesight/vision can affect your perception of clarity. It doesn''t for me; I wear contacts that give me 20/15 vision, and I can''t see inclusions in most SI2 stones. My friend, though, is a ridiculous hawkeye and can see some SI2 inclusions.

This is what I think most average consumers really care about when shopping for a stone; hope it helps.

 

[oldmancoyote]

Great post Allison!

I would only add that size, like colour and to some extent cut are most likely to be important for people (or not) in comparison to what their friends/acquaintances have or plan.

What I mean is that although a 1 ct or even a 0.75 stone will appear well proportioned on many fingers, if everyone else is going around with a 3 ct boulder...

Similarly, I think that most people will see the difference between an F and a J when they are side by side, even though to an untrained eye or casual glance the J will still appear white in isolation.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 11/4/2008 1:02:25 PM
Author: oldmancoyote
Great post Allison!

I would only add that size, like colour and to some extent cut are most likely to be important for people (or not) in comparison to what their friends/acquaintances have or plan.

What I mean is that although a 1 ct or even a 0.75 stone will appear well proportioned on many fingers, if everyone else is going around with a 3 ct boulder...

Similarly, I think that most people will see the difference between an F and a J when they are side by side, even though to an untrained eye or casual glance the J will still appear white in isolation.

I completely agree, Alj rocks - pardon the pun!!!