Where is the line of demarkation between pink and red spinel

[RedSpinel]

I had posted in the thread about a member looking for a Mahenge spinel about some loose Tanzanian spinels being sold at Gem Shopping network the other day for $600 per ct, with the parcel being between 1.47cts to 2.10cts. About 4 of them were very nice, clean, bright and well cut. About 2 of them were clean and nice, but were too shallow and had windows. Then there were 2-3 others that seemed to have this very slight haziness internally. I couldnt actually see an obvious area of inclusions, but they just werent as clear as the others. Anyway, they were all sold at $600 per carat. I think they made up for the really good prices on the 4 nice stones, by also selling the poorly cut and hazy ones for the same price! But the 4 people who bought the clean well cut ones got lucky!

Anyway, they were specifically advertised as "Tanzanian candy apple red spinels". I would say that the primary color in those stones was a very saturated hot pink, but when you turned the stones a certain way, you'd always see red in some areas of the stones. As I said there, it wasnt zoning, it was just that you'd get a darker color in certain facet areas depending upon how you were holding the gems in the light. That darker color was red. So what we had here, in my humble opinion, were pink-red spinels! I dont know if there is a somewhat objective definition of when a deep pink spinel becomes a red spinel in name. Like with the line of demarcation between white and black opals, I'm sure this can be very subjective.

It probably benefits the dealer if the stone can be labeled red, because reds are more expensive than pinks. Does the spinel have to be 100% pure red, or can it be dark-ish pink, or like the stones I was talking about above, can it be pink with red showing in many of the facets?

 

[T L]

Re: Where is the line of demarkation between pink and red sp

It probably benefits the dealer if the stone can be labeled red, because reds are more expensive than pinks. Does the spinel have to be 100% pure red, or can it be dark-ish pink, or like the stones I was talking about above, can it be pink with red showing in many of the facets?

I don't know if I've ever seen a pure red stone in nature. To me, red always has some orange or pink in it. There are orangy reds or pinkish reds. I think the reddest stones are fine and large Burmese rubies though. Even to me, the bottom stone, a Burmese ruby, is a pinkish red. Others may differ in their opinion.

To me, pink is pink, with no real red in the stone. It sounds like the stones you saw on GSN were pinkish reds.

I'm also posting a picture of a very very red spinel (top photo), which is very red not only due to the fact that its a fine stone, but its huge, so there is more saturation of color in the crystal. I would also consider it a pinkish red, but others, including gemologists may disagree.

 

[RedSpinel]

Re: Where is the line of demarkation between pink and red sp

It probably benefits the dealer if the stone can be labeled red, because reds are more expensive than pinks. Does the spinel have to be 100% pure red, or can it be dark-ish pink, or like the stones I was talking about above, can it be pink with red showing in many of the facets?

I don't know if I've ever seen a pure red stone in nature. To me, red always has some orange or pink in it. There are orangy reds or pinkish reds. I think the reddest stones are fine and large Burmese rubies though. Even to me, the bottom stone, a Burmese ruby, is a pinkish red. Others may differ in their opinion.

To me, pink is pink, with no real red in the stone. It sounds like the stones you saw on GSN were pinkish reds.

I'm also posting a picture of a very very red spinel (top photo), which is very red not only due to the fact that its a fine stone, but its huge, so there is more saturation of color in the crystal. I would also consider it a pinkish red, but others, including gemologists may disagree.

I think the stone in your post is clearly red. Granted it has some pink hues to it, its base color is red. I have seen stones that were generally pink with maybe a few red flashes, that were nonetheless being sold as red. What I am talking about is basically the opposite of your stone.

 

[T L]

Re: Where is the line of demarkation between pink and red sp

I wish that was my stone. Unfortunately, it isn't.

 

[FrekeChild]

Re: Where is the line of demarkation between pink and red sp

Pink is just a lighter toned red. Sooooo.....I find that a lot of it is personal preference. I own a stone that some would consider to be dark pink, and some would consider a red. It's one of the hardest stones I've ever tried to photograph. I'll attach some images of it where it looks completely different in each. Also, some red/pink melee.

 

[chrono]

Re: Where is the line of demarkation between pink and red sp

Pink is actually a pale red. When pink is deepened in both tone and saturation, it gets darker and redder. The reverse is true for red; dilute it with white (tone and saturation) and it starts graduating into pink. In actuality, pink isn't a true hue. Where the line is drawn depends on who you are talking to. In the example of ruby, it seems that the Asian labs are more lenient, labeling some pinkish red corundum as sapphire but you don't see it practiced by the US and European labs. Pricing seems to be higher when the gem is considered red, rather than pink, if they are of equal saturation. You'll see this in both red/pink spinels and red (ruby)/pink sapphires.

Prior to the Mahenge spinel strike, it seemed easier to categorize which spinel is pink and which spinel is red since it was quite obvious which is which. The Mahenge spinels oftentimes border pink and red, hence many are described as pink-red. I think the reason a particular spinel looks pinker one way and redder another way is due to the length of the light path through the stone. If light doesn't bounce around a lot internally (due to cutting and depth), it will look pinker. If it travels further, it stands a higher likelihood of looking redder to the eye.

The light source also plays a role - under bright light, a pink-red spinel will look pinker because the light dilutes the red. Under low light conditions, a pink-red spinel will look redder because there is an absence of light to dilute the tone.

 

[T L]

Re: Where is the line of demarkation between pink and red sp

Yes, and then some pinks have secondary colors like purple or orange, and that makes it even more confusing.

 

[chrono]

Re: Where is the line of demarkation between pink and red sp

The secondary colours for pink/red is orange and blue so it makes sense that the pinks can either be orangish pink or purplish pink and the reds can be orangish red and purplish red. The same goes for a pink/red blend spinel.

 

[T L]

Re: Where is the line of demarkation between pink and red sp

The secondary colours for pink/red is orange and blue so it makes sense that the pinks can either be orangish pink or purplish pink and the reds can be orangish red and purplish red. The same goes for a pink/red blend spinel.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, "when is red just red?" Is there such a thing in colored gems? I always see a secondary color to pinks and reds.

Maybe I'm reading too much into this.????

 

[LoversKites]

Re: Where is the line of demarkation between pink and red sp

Pink is actually a pale red. When pink is deepened in both tone and saturation, it gets darker and redder. The reverse is true for red; dilute it with white (tone and saturation) and it starts graduating into pink. In actuality, pink isn't a true hue. Where the line is drawn depends on who you are talking to. In the example of ruby, it seems that the Asian labs are more lenient, labeling some pinkish red corundum as sapphire but you don't see it practiced by the US and European labs. Pricing seems to be higher when the gem is considered red, rather than pink, if they are of equal saturation. You'll see this in both red/pink spinels and red (ruby)/pink sapphires.

Prior to the Mahenge spinel strike, it seemed easier to categorize which spinel is pink and which spinel is red since it was quite obvious which is which. The Mahenge spinels oftentimes border pink and red, hence many are described as pink-red. I think the reason a particular spinel looks pinker one way and redder another way is due to the length of the light path through the stone. If light doesn't bounce around a lot internally (due to cutting and depth), it will look pinker. If it travels further, it stands a higher likelihood of looking redder to the eye.

The light source also plays a role - under bright light, a pink-red spinel will look pinker because the light dilutes the red. Under low light conditions, a pink-red spinel will look redder because there is an absence of light to dilute the tone.

Chrono, thanks for the explanation. Do you also, like TL, not see a red-red colour in stones? Or have you seen stones that in your opinion are red with no modifier?

I'm curious.

 

[chrono]

Re: Where is the line of demarkation between pink and red sp

Sorry, I get it now. Didn't someone else once brought up the question about whether a pure red gem exists?

 

[RedSpinel]

Re: Where is the line of demarkation between pink and red sp

Pink is actually a pale red. When pink is deepened in both tone and saturation, it gets darker and redder. The reverse is true for red; dilute it with white (tone and saturation) and it starts graduating into pink. In actuality, pink isn't a true hue. Where the line is drawn depends on who you are talking to. In the example of ruby, it seems that the Asian labs are more lenient, labeling some pinkish red corundum as sapphire but you don't see it practiced by the US and European labs. Pricing seems to be higher when the gem is considered red, rather than pink, if they are of equal saturation. You'll see this in both red/pink spinels and red (ruby)/pink sapphires.

Prior to the Mahenge spinel strike, it seemed easier to categorize which spinel is pink and which spinel is red since it was quite obvious which is which. The Mahenge spinels oftentimes border pink and red, hence many are described as pink-red. I think the reason a particular spinel looks pinker one way and redder another way is due to the length of the light path through the stone. If light doesn't bounce around a lot internally (due to cutting and depth), it will look pinker. If it travels further, it stands a higher likelihood of looking redder to the eye.

The light source also plays a role - under bright light, a pink-red spinel will look pinker because the light dilutes the red. Under low light conditions, a pink-red spinel will look redder because there is an absence of light to dilute the tone.

Chrono, thanks for the explanation. Do you also, like TL, not see a red-red colour in stones? Or have you seen stones that in your opinion are red with no modifier?

I'm curious.

I have never really considered whether I have ever seen gems that were pure red or red without another color as a modifier, but now that I think of it, its rare to see gems that are truly pure red. I do seem to recall seeing some African rubies that lacked that pink hue you see in Burmese rubies when you move the stone around. These looked close to being pure red. But then again, if one were to take a closer look at those stones, its possible there may have been a slight amount of orange that went unnoticed.

I see large rubellites being sold at GSN in rings from 8cts up to over 20cts, and most of them are primarily red with orange as a secondary hue. None have been very close to pure red. Red garnets are often similar, like with orange-red spessartites, or the dark, cold colored reds of almandines. They can have an obvious orange red, but some are more of a burgundy-orange-red. Then with rhodolites you get the raspberry-purple-pink.

I have seen a few spinels that were pretty close to pure red.

 

[NKOTB]

Re: Where is the line of demarkation between pink and red sp

Sorry, I get it now. Didn't someone else once brought up the question about whether a pure red gem exists?

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/chrono-show-me-red-with-no-modifier-of-any-kind-please.185912/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/chrono-show-me-red-with-no-modifier-of-any-kind-please.185912/[/URL]

ETA: my solution seems to be to buy one of every shade, from light pink to as red as I can get.

 

[Xrisus]

Re: Where is the line of demarkation between pink and red sp

...and then NKOTB gets you hooked and you end up with something like this, just speaking from personal experience!

 

[Niel]

Re: Where is the line of demarkation between pink and red sp

Sorry, I get it now. Didn't someone else once brought up the question about whether a pure red gem exists?

I know you've told me before that theres no such thing as pure red in nature.


I know I'm one of those people who see purple red less red than orange red.

 

[chrono]

Re: Where is the line of demarkation between pink and red sp

...and then NKOTB gets you hooked and you end up with something like this, just speaking from personal experience!

You make it sound as though there's something wrong with this solution.

 

[NKOTB]

Re: Where is the line of demarkation between pink and red sp

...and then NKOTB gets you hooked and you end up with something like this, just speaking from personal experience!

You make it sound as though there's something wrong with this solution.

Right??