Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...please

[ChrisA222]

Chrono...since I consider you the boards color expert...I would like you to show me what you consider to be a true red gemstone. No modifiers of any kind. No brown, no orange, and no pink. I want to see if there is one that really exists, that YOU see as true red.

It doesn't have to be your stone, or any specific type of stone. I just want to see what the color looks like (and what it will translate to on my monitor). I dont want to see a color swatch--I want to see a real gemstone!!

I say this because every red stone I see posted (not just mine) you are seeing mods that I do not. I need to see for my own eyes what this color looks like

This is not meant to be snarky, or anything at all like that. I actually want to see what this color looks like.

Im addressing Chrono specifically but anyone else can chip in....but I'd love to start with Chrono

 

[Niel]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

I was told by her, or maybe it was LD,that there is no such thing... Im nkt sure i believe that in theory, but in parctice they said wHat looks pure red to you might not to someone else, etc....

 

[chrono]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

Nielseel is correct; there is no 100% red stone of any kind. Every stone I've seen and per AGL's prestige reports on super high quality stones will break down red as any combination of red, purple and orange. The finer the stone, the greater the red with extremely low amounts of purple and orange.

I might know more than most but do not claim to be an expert.

 

[FrekeChild]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

I saw a really amazing stone recently that was red red, but I'm sure someone else would be able to see some kind of modifier in it!

 

[Niel]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

Nielseel is correct; there is no 100% red stone of any kind. Every stone I've seen and per AGL's prestige reports on super high quality stones will break down red as any combination of red, purple and orange. The finer the stone, the greater the red with extremely low amounts of purple and orange.

I might know more than most but do not claim to be an expert.

Chrono i hope i didnt sound like i dont believe you. I was just saying in a more absolute sense that there has got to be something something somewhere thats all red. I just cant imagine in all ths world something like that doesnt exist. A "never say never" type of thing. I believe you that in tje world of gemstones there isnt such thing. You seem to be very knowledgeable ablut the subject, id never doubt

 

[pregcurious]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

Chris, your red spinel in the other post is beautiful.

Every ruby and red spinel I've seen shifts in light, so I don't think there's anything that is really just pure red. You just have to pick what modifiers you like, and under which light you prefer to view your stone. Even "red" paint on walls shifts, depending on the time of day for natural light, and the light source. In general, for rubies and spinels, I've noticed that an orange modifier usually lowers the price more than a purple modifier.

The best red rubies at the Smithsonian have a purple modifier, but I've noticed that sometimes they look quite pink. Some people love "flame" spinels, which are highly saturated red spinels with a orange modifier. I think it's just a matter of personal preference.

For a purchase, as long as the picture is not totally off, and something is described correctly in writing, I have no issues. I think Gene Flanigan has amazingly accurate pictures, based on the vendor picture thread. I've never bought from him, but I hope to do so.

 

[ChrisA222]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

WOW...that is great to know. So no matter how much $$ I spend, or how long I look, I will never find a Red-Red Spinel...it will always have some sort of modifier....it is just the amount and type of modifier that every red stone will have that separates them (as well as tone, saturation, etc).

I did not know this...so there is no chasing the perfect red stone...as there is no such thing.

 

[pregcurious]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

I agree. Just buy what you like.

 

[ChrisA222]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

Thanks Preg. for the compliment on my Spinel, yours is gorgeous too and I see that as Red Red, at least in the avatar picture.

I can see modifiers in Orange, I sometimes see orange or pink modifiers in Red (is pink a modifier of red since its really a light toned red itself?) But I do not see brown in red where others have seen brown in red.

I just retook the color test and got a 3, which seems to be a great score but not a perfect score. For whatever that is worth. I know the first time I took it a while back I didnt do as well so I must be getting a little better.

For fun I sent that test to some random non-gem enthusiasts, and they got scores ranging from 21 to 155!!

 

[AGBF]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

Chrono...since I consider you the boards color expert...I would like you to show me what you consider to be a true red gemstone. No modifiers of any kind. No brown, no orange, and no pink. I want to see if there is one that really exists, that YOU see as true red.

There is no such thing. I have a stone that is red. It has modifiers. I think Chrono would have to agree that it is red, however.

Deb/AGBF

 

[ForteKitty]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

WOW...that is great to know. So no matter how much $$ I spend, or how long I look, I will never find a Red-Red Spinel...it will always have some sort of modifier....it is just the amount and type of modifier that every red stone will have that separates them (as well as tone, saturation, etc).I did not know this...so there is no chasing the perfect red stone...as there is no such thing.

Yep. That's why I just roll my eyes and move on when people comment that there is "a tiny little bit of orange" or when they think they see "some purple" that may or may not even be there because the picture is obviously not great. There's always going to be something, so long as the price is appropriate and the buyer is aware of it and still like it, why offer snooty remarks when perfection doesn't exist?

FWIW, if you find one that is close enough to perfect and YOU (after training your eyes, of course) can't see any modifiers, that's good enough. Most of us take crappy pictures and gems never look the way they do IRL. I never understand why people love to judge color based on pictures because it's never accurate.

 

[pregcurious]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

ABGF, I love your stone. I remember when you were looking, you made it clear that you were looking for "your" red.

 

[pregcurious]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

Chris, for brown in red, I think a "garnety" red is another way to think of it. I see brown in "red" spinels when the tone is dark. I always feel a disappointment about the color when there's brown with red, but that's because I am sensitive to it and it leaps out at me. To my eyes, it kills the vividness of the stone.

Brown with very light peach or pink, however, does not bother me. I think it's because very light peach and pink stones are not vivid to begin with. Light pink diamonds with a little brown still look great to me.

Thanks for the compliment on my stone.

 

[AGBF]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

ABGF, I love your stone. I remember when you were looking, you made it clear that you were looking for "your" red.

Thank you. And, yes, I was looking for "my" red. I knew the hue that I wanted, and I got it. However, the stone was certified as "red". That is what I meant when I said that anyone has to admit it was red. It is. But it isn't pure red. It has modifiers. They happen to be the ones that make a "perfect red" for me. I do not believe that a truly perfect red occurs in nature, but if it does, I guess I wouldn't like it!!!

Deb

 

[pregcurious]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

ABGF, I gotta get a report for mine one day. One day...

 

[AGBF]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

ABGF, I gotta get a report for mine one day. One day...

Indeed you do. It is gorgeous in the icon. Where is there a thread about it?

Deb

 

[pregcurious]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

Thanks, Deb. There have been 2 threads, and 1 review of the vendor.

Bruce Bridges said it was red with a hint of "rose", which I took to mean purple. Martin Fuller said it was red when he saw it in a room with daylight, then when he went to his lab area and used a GIA stone set, he said it was 1 stone off from red , towards purple. My favorite is on an overcast day, shown in the avatar.

Review of Vendor shot with my avatar shot:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/vendor-pictures-and-owner-pictures-of-ps-stones.109420/page-16']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/vendor-pictures-and-owner-pictures-of-ps-stones.109420/page-16[/URL]

Recent shots here:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/pictures-of-old-and-new-gems-with-iphone.185553/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/pictures-of-old-and-new-gems-with-iphone.185553/[/URL]

Old horrible photos here (what was I thinking surrounding it in bright yellow?), with 2 vendor shots:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/finally-some-decent-pics-of-red-spinel.169326/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/finally-some-decent-pics-of-red-spinel.169326/[/URL]

 

[AGBF]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

Thanks, Deb. There have been 2 threads, and 1 review of the vendor.

Bruce Bridges said it had a hint of purple. Martin Fuller said it was red when he saw it in a room with daylight, then when he went to his lab area and used a GIA stone set, he said it was 1 stone off from red , towards purple. It shifts. My favorite is on an overcast day. To me, it's "red".

Review of Vendor shot with my avatar shot:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/vendor-pictures-and-owner-pictures-of-ps-stones.109420/page-16']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/vendor-pictures-and-owner-pictures-of-ps-stones.109420/page-16[/URL]

Recent shots here:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/pictures-of-old-and-new-gems-with-iphone.185553/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/pictures-of-old-and-new-gems-with-iphone.185553/[/URL]

Old horrible photos here (what was I thinking surrounding it in bright yellow?), with 2 vendor shots:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/finally-some-decent-pics-of-red-spinel.169326/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/finally-some-decent-pics-of-red-spinel.169326/[/URL]

An exquisite red. Truly exquisite. Bruce Bridges saw it. Did he also source it? I will have to reread the three threads!

Deb/AGBF

 

[chrono]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

The perfection or quest is to find a stone with as high a red rating as possible. The very best I've seen have as much as 75% red, with the remaining 25% a mixture of purple and orange. Remember that I've not even considered saturation, but only purity of hue, which means I've not even started talking about tone, and tone is tied to saturation or vividness of colour. No matter how high the red percentage is, if the saturation is low, guess what...Here comes the brown.

This has little to no bearing on what one considers beautiful. What the colour is or isn't is a fact that cannot be changed or disputed. It is not subjective. If one finds an orangish or purplish red stone beautiful, that is subjective and who am I to disagree with this opinion? The next more difficult part is whether one is able to accurately discern the nuances of colour aka what are the modifiers and the quantity of the modifiers.

Now comes the question of price point. If one cannot tell colour accurately, how can one determine if the price is right for that particular stone? If person A see the stone as red RED, then the price could be the deal of the century. If person B see the stone as orangish red, then the price could be considered expensive.

The colour test is a fun one, and as I mentioned earlier, is an easy test because one gets to line up the colours next to each other in progression. It is far more difficult when presented with a single swatch or gem with no reference colour and asked to define the primary and secondary colours.

 

[pregcurious]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

I made an edit to Bruce's comment because he said it had a hint of rose. From what understand, he sourced it from Burma.

 

[ChrisA222]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

Chrono...since I consider you the boards color expert...I would like you to show me what you consider to be a true red gemstone. No modifiers of any kind. No brown, no orange, and no pink. I want to see if there is one that really exists, that YOU see as true red.

There is no such thing. I have a stone that is red. It has modifiers. I think Chrono would have to agree that it is red, however.

Deb/AGBF

Forgive me Deb, because I have never seen one of these reports before, so I dont know how to read them. I also do not know anything about your stone. I haven't seen one single picture...

So I am curious...

Why does the color say only 2.5 out of 80? That to me would indicate a pretty poor color? Since that cannot be right, What does that number mean, exactly. So I am guessing i am way off in thinking that 80 is ideal. Help!

Also curious to see that the stone was only given 65% red, and yet it is still classified as red by AGL. So how much red does a stone have to be to be called red? 51%?

This is all new to me...and very interesting. Looking forward to hearing someone break it down for me...

 

[ChrisA222]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

The perfection or quest is to find a stone with as high a red rating as possible. The very best I've seen have as much as 75% red, with the remaining 25% a mixture of purple and orange. Remember that I've not even considered saturation, but only purity of hue, which means I've not even started talking about tone, and tone is tied to saturation or vividness of colour. No matter how high the red percentage is, if the saturation is low, guess what...Here comes the brown.

This has little to no bearing on what one considers beautiful. What the colour is or isn't is a fact that cannot be changed or disputed. It is not subjective. If one finds an orangish or purplish red stone beautiful, that is subjective and who am I to disagree with this opinion? The next more difficult part is whether one is able to accurately discern the nuances of colour aka what are the modifiers and the quantity of the modifiers.

Now comes the question of price point. If one cannot tell colour accurately, how can one determine if the price is right for that particular stone? If person A see the stone as red RED, then the price could be the deal of the century. If person B see the stone as orangish red, then the price could be considered expensive.

The colour test is a fun one, and as I mentioned earlier, is an easy test because one gets to line up the colours next to each other in progression. It is far more difficult when presented with a single swatch or gem with no reference colour and asked to define the primary and secondary colours.

Now this really surprises me...the 'reddest' of red that you've ever seen in a gemstone is only 75% red?! Wow...that is a really low number.

 

[deorwine]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

Old horrible photos here (what was I thinking surrounding it in bright yellow?), with 2 vendor shots:

You know, I read Richard Hughes' Ruby and Sapphire quite a while ago, but I remember one of the things he said was that the background of color also makes a BIG difference to our brains in how we perceive color, so unscrupulous gem dealers would surround a stone by a non-white background. (I think yellow is actually supposed to enhance rubies -- think of all the threads about people talking about how yellow gold makes red gemstones pop.)

I know when I take pictures of my gemstones I'm doing it at work or at home waiting for my kid to wake up or something, so I'm pretty careless about the background.

So part of what I think we all have to be careful with is that our brains (and monitors, and lighting situations ) can do funny things with color.

ETA: A question for Chrono (or anyone else who knows): Let's say I have a gemstone with 50% red, 25% purple, and 25% orange. Does this mean the purple and the orange tend to cancel each other out, or does it mean that I am likely to see purple in some lights and orange in others, or... what?

ETA2: While I was writing this Chrono answered me without even knowing my question. Thanks Chrono!

 

[chrono]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

Chris,
A detailed explanation of how to understand the AGL full prestige report.
http://www.preciousgemstones.com/UnderstandingPrestigeGem%20Report.HTML

 

[pregcurious]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

Chris, I thought you might want to see this spinel. A while ago, the owner posted a pic of this, and I found out who the vendor was in the US. I absolutely loved the look of the stone in the pic. I could see an orange modifier, and emailed the US vendor for the price and he confirmed it had orange. Based on the strong orange modifier, I did not buy it because I felt it was overpriced for the amount of orange. At the right price, I would have snapped it up because I think it's beautiful. Someone else, however, must have thought the price was correct because it is not available.

 

[chrono]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

Chris,
You are taking my explanation too literally, not fully understanding what I am trying to say. It is not as cut and dry or simplistic as you are making it out to be. This is actually much more complex than that. At 75% pure red hue, most people will see it as red in general terms. Again, I am only talking about hue. I am not even taking into account the tone nor the saturation, which will skew how red that red is going to look.

 

[pregcurious]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

Now this really surprises me...the 'reddest' of red that you've ever seen in a gemstone is only 75% red?! Wow...that is a really low number.

I read Chrono's comment as meaning that 75% is the highest she has ever seen.

 

[chrono]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

Deorwine,
The reason why yellow is used to enhance the colour of a ruby is because most rubies are skewed towards having a purple modifier. When it is put on a yellow surface, the yellow helps cancel out the purple, making the ruby look redder than it is.

 

[ForteKitty]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

Chris, I thought you might want to see this spinel. A while ago, the owner posted a pic of this, and I found out who the vendor was in the US. I absolutely loved the look of the stone in the pic. I could see an orange modifier, and emailed the US vendor for the price and he confirmed it had orange. Based on the strong orange modifier, I did not buy it because I felt it was overpriced for the amount of orange. At the right price, I would have snapped it up because I think it's beautiful. Someone else, however, must have thought the price was correct because it is not available.

How much was it? I can see the strong orange but I happen to like it because it's different than my Mahenge spinel.

 

[chrono]

Re: Chrono...show me RED...with no modifier of any kind...pl

Chris, I thought you might want to see this spinel. A while ago, the owner posted a pic of this, and I found out who the vendor was in the US. I absolutely loved the look of the stone in the pic. I could see an orange modifier, and emailed the US vendor for the price and he confirmed it had orange. Based on the strong orange modifier, I did not buy it because I felt it was overpriced for the amount of orange. At the right price, I would have snapped it up because I think it's beautiful. Someone else, however, must have thought the price was correct because it is not available.

Ditto. Gorgeous spinel. Do I see a strong orange modifier? Definitely. Does it make it less beautiful? No. The saturation? Very strong which makes the spinel pop and catch your eye, meaning little to no brown. However, knowing that it has a strong orange modifier allows me to know if I am overpaying for the stone or paying a fair price or getting a great deal. Knowing and understanding the level of saturation also allows me to make the right judgement call on whether the price is fair.