What's with all the firearms here?

[redwood66]

Yet you argue politics with us all day!! You like it. You’ll never convince me otherwise.

Not all day. I like some of it.

 

[soxfan]

 

[Calliecake]

@House Cat. Redwood has posted over 30 times in this thread trying to whip things up. She loves it. LOL.

 

[redwood66]

@House Cat. Redwood has posted over 30 times in this thread trying to whip things up. She loves it. LOL.

Pot meet kettle.

 

[Calliecake]

Pot meet kettle.

LOL!

 

[arkieb1]

The fact they even need to protest is the US government's fault. If they started cutting spending on stuff like overseas wars and so on and actually started giving better financial relief to business owners going broke and anyone else that actually needs it and cannot get it then maybe people would not need to protest. Our Government pressured banks to suspend mortgage and business and any other types of loan payments for 6 months, so the US could in theory do the same.

I do however think they are morons for protesting like that. This virus doesn't care about protesting, people starving, economies going broke, if you have a gun or you don't, if you congregate in groups like that all you are doing is increasing your odds of being one of the people that ends up with it.

If they lived in Australia they would all be fined (a minimum of $1000 each) and arrested and given up to 5 years jail time for breaking social distancing laws. I can see why there are so many cases in the US.....

 

[1ofakind]

@1ofakind I REALLY didn't want to enter this thread. And don't want to enter the gun fray or the religion debate... But, I'm a bit confused by this sentence of yours from earlier in the thread:

'Our rights under the constitution come from our creator, not governments.'

By creator are you referring the to the founding fathers who wrote the constitution as the foundation of our government? By constitution are you refering to the Bill of Rights?
Because to me, the rights afforded us by the constitution (and amendments) are most definitely rights that the government has enshrined (however imperfectly) as law. It is, simply, a legal document validated and upheld by the government. Is it not? I'm not trying to be snarky, I just want to know if you think the constitution is linked to your deity? Because although the pledge of allegiance references a god, the constitution does not. Thanks for clarifying!

I wrote quickly and reference constitutional rights broadly as the term is often used...of course stated first in the declaration, clarified further in the bill of Rights The founders recognized that these rights are not given by men or governments, They are natural rights for all and while the founders did not name A specific deity they acknowledged a creator. In places where People are not free to exercise those inalienable rights it is often men/governments/authorities who stand in the way. Our Constitution is designed to protect/guarantee those rights...to Form, constrain and check the powers of government in that effort.

 

[soxfan]

 

[737liz]

@1ofakind thank you, that was a very clear answer to my (now in hindsight rather obvious) question. In my defence it's 5am here and I've been huffing fumes all day (slapping old leftover paint on all my furniture out of boredom since I've had my hours cut in half). Insomnia due to financial insecurity for the win!

@Alex T have we Americans answered your question? All clear now ?

I love this forum because. Aside from fantastic bling, it is SO diverse politically. It is so interesting and occasionally enlightening to see where other people are coming from. Wish me luck, I'm going to try to get to sleep!

 

[1ofakind]

@1ofakind thank you, that was a very clear answer to my (now in hindsight rather obvious) question. In my defence it's 5am here and I've been huffing fumes all day (slapping old leftover paint on all my furniture out of boredom since I've had my hours cut in half). Insomnia due to financial insecurity for the win!

@Alex T have we Americans answered your question? All clear now ?

I love this forum because. Aside from fantastic bling, it is SO diverse politically. It is so interesting and occasionally enlightening to see where other people are coming from. Wish me luck, I'm going to try to get to sleep!

Good night, take care...please open a window for ventilation.

 

[737liz]

@Alex T ... Just in case my text is misinterpreted and came across as hostile; I had inserted eye rolls and laughing emojis last night to make clear I'm being sarcastic... but they disappeared.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Yet you argue politics with us all day!! You like it. You’ll never convince me otherwise.

and she'll never win..but don't give up Red!!...

 

[MarionC]

It's that kind of overreach which people are protesting.

Here only the food stores and pharmacies are open.
Fortunately from time to time my small local grocer has vegetable seedlings and flowers, so gradually I am planting my garden.

I had to order a garden hose from Amazon to water these plants, and I am thrilled I will get it. Amazon.fr is now shut down, no more deliveries.
It seems amazing that other places are less constrained. The rules here are firm and it feels safe. I am content to be inconvenienced if it means I and others will remain well.
Looking at the news from the States it seems incredible that people are protesting about citizens’ rights violations when it is for their safety, and the president is heartily supporting them. Large gatherings, few masks, no social distancing and guns. It’s beyond the twilight zone.
My two cents.

Edit: but I do have to add that the government is taking care of people who cannot go to work, even self-employed like holiday rentals.

 

[Ally T]

What an emotive subject this has been!

Thank you all for your opinions & comments - diversity is what makes the world go round, after all. And it was relatively civilised too

I still don't see the need for protesting with guns & I can only hope those protesting stay well, their families stay well & those that love them, because their guns aren't going to protect them when they get Covid-19.

Peace, people. Keep well.

 

[Austina]

My son lives in the US, in Texas, which has a LOT of gun owners. He goes shooting for sport (not killing anything, just at the range and clay pigeon shooting), and did the licence to carry permit training. He was horrified at the training and subsequent issuing of the licences at some of the people they were given to. People who shouldn’t be allowed out on their own, let alone be in charge of a lethal weapon.

In the UK, our police are not routinely armed (we have specialist firearms cops), so people carrying weapons, is perceived as threatening and frightening, so I’m with you @Alex T, I don‘t understand why anyone would take one to a peaceful protest.

I’m glad we don’t live in a society where weapon ownership is the norm.

 

[missy]

My son lives in the US, in Texas, which has a LOT of gun owners. He goes shooting for sport (not killing anything, just at the range and clay pigeon shooting), and did the licence to carry permit training. He was horrified at the training and subsequent issuing of the licences at some of the people they were given to. People who shouldn’t be allowed out on their own, let alone be in charge of a lethal weapon.

In the UK, our police are not routinely armed (we have specialist firearms cops), so people carrying weapons, is perceived as threatening and frightening, so I’m with you @Alex T, I don‘t understand why anyone would take one to a peaceful protest.

I’m glad we don’t live in a society where weapon ownership is the norm.

Are you sure you want to move here @Austina? I know I would be giving it a second thought if I didn't already live here. I agree there is much wrong here IMO and guns are just no longer a "right" that people should have. I know this thread isn't about gun control but it's hard not to discuss it when we see what is happening. And don't get me started on our gun violence statistics.

What the data says about gun deaths in the U.S.

More Americans died of gun-related injuries in 2021 than in any other year on record, according to the latest available statistics from the CDC.

www.pewresearch.org

"Three-quarters of all U.S. murders in 2017 – 14,542 out of 19,510 – involved a firearm. About half (51%) of all suicides that year – 23,854 out of 47,173 – involved a gun."

 

[Ally T]

Are you sure you want to move here @Austina? I know I would be giving it a second thought if I didn't already live here. I agree there is much wrong here IMO and guns are just no longer a "right" that people should have. I know this thread isn't about gun control but it's hard not to discuss it when we see what is happening. And don't get me started on our gun violence statistics.

What the data says about gun deaths in the U.S.

More Americans died of gun-related injuries in 2021 than in any other year on record, according to the latest available statistics from the CDC.

www.pewresearch.org

"Three-quarters of all U.S. murders in 2017 – 14,542 out of 19,510 – involved a firearm. About half (51%) of all suicides that year – 23,854 out of 47,173 – involved a gun."

That is shocking I just find the whole thing bizarre & alien, but I guess that might be because I haven't grown up with guns being allowed in my country & they are a weapon to be feared, not a tool to live life alongside as a hammer or screwdriver are.

And also, a point which I was going to refrain from making but I do feel it's relevant. In another thread about Covid-19 there was quite a discussion going on about how people felt that the US was now so far removed from the Constitution, that it really couldn't be applied in 2020 because all States have their own federal governments & laws. There was much agreement that perhaps the US should become more like the European Union & sort of divorce other States, as the Constitution had become redundant with the changing of times.

And yet..... the Constitution gives the right to bare arms, referencing an old shot gun to protect land from predators.

But that one CAN still be relevant in 2020, where hard core arms are now available?? Nah. I don't think so......

 

[missy]

That is shocking I just find the whole thing bizarre & alien, but I guess that might be because I haven't grown up with guns being allowed in my country & they are a weapon to be feared, not a tool to live life alongside as a hammer or screwdriver are.

And also, a point which I was going to refrain from making but I do feel it's relevant. In another thread about Covid-19 there was quite a discussion going on about how people felt that the US was now so far removed from the Constitution, that it really couldn't be applied in 2020 because all States have their own federal governments & laws. There was much agreement that perhaps the US should become more like the European Union & sort of divorce other States, as the Constitution had become redundant with the changing of times.

And yet..... the Constitution gives the right to bare arms, referencing an old shot gun to protect land from predators.

But that one CAN still be relevant in 2020, where hard core arms are now available?? Nah. I don't think so......

I agree with this completely. What was relevant then no longer applies to our country in the 21st century. IMO.

 

[eapj]

@Redwood, I would think you would get it considering your husband works for one of these businesses. People are roaming around Home Depots and Lowes because they are bored. I have family members who are doing this as entertainment now. I begged my dad to think of the people working there. The last thing they need is having someone come to the store and infect the workers. We all know you can feel fine, have this virus and pass it to others.

The Governor of Michigan is trying to keep people safe. Your husband’s right to stay alive should be more important than someone being entertained for an hour.

This isn’t the flu.

A friend works at Lowe’s (in my states areas of the store aren’t blocked off) and she says it’s crazy how many people are buying nonessential items and just wandering around for something to do. There is the letter of the law and the spirit of it and it seems these people are following the letter only. They’re bored, the store is open, and they’re there. My friend says that puts her and her colleagues at more risk

And I’m intimidated by guns in every place and wish guns weren’t so prevalent.

 

[eapj]

And Whitmer has designated liquor stores, lottery sellers and pot dispensaries as essential services. Is she serious? You can’t purchase seeds to plant a garden, but boost,pot and lottery tickets are essential? She went too far.

My governor also deemed liquor stores essential businesses. The reason given was that alcohol withdrawal would bring many people to the emergency room, thus further overwhelming the health care system.

 

[redwood66]

That is shocking I just find the whole thing bizarre & alien, but I guess that might be because I haven't grown up with guns being allowed in my country & they are a weapon to be feared, not a tool to live life alongside as a hammer or screwdriver are.

And also, a point which I was going to refrain from making but I do feel it's relevant. In another thread about Covid-19 there was quite a discussion going on about how people felt that the US was now so far removed from the Constitution, that it really couldn't be applied in 2020 because all States have their own federal governments & laws. There was much agreement that perhaps the US should become more like the European Union & sort of divorce other States, as the Constitution had become redundant with the changing of times.

And yet..... the Constitution gives the right to bare arms, referencing an old shot gun to protect land from predators.

But that one CAN still be relevant in 2020, where hard core arms are now available?? Nah. I don't think so......

I agree with this completely. What was relevant then no longer applies to our country in the 21st century. IMO.

And I could not disagree more with this if I tried. Those who seek power always want more.

 

[soxfan]

This is #1 spot on about Americans and guns. Watch part 2 after.

 

[missy]

This is #1 spot on about Americans and guns. Watch part 2 after.

Hysterical. But sad. Because it’s so freakin true.

 

[soxfan]

Hysterical. But sad. Because it’s so freakin true.

Sooooo true.

 

[AprilBaby]

I wouldn’t say weapon ownership is the norm. In 61 years I have never seen a gun except on a cop. Non of my friends own guns. Non of my family own guns. The group of guys with guns above wouldn’t scare me at all if I saw them. They carry big guns to make up for their small balls.

 

[1ofakind]

One thing that has been difficult is that even within one state there are areas completely unaffected. The restrictions are all OSFA. We know and accept that there are restrictions that make sense to keep this from spreading but we are all as locked down as the worst affected areas. We know we shouldn't be traveling, gathering in large groups etc. Everything is closed, everything is canceled. We are social distancing, wearing masks, limiting shopping trips, working from home, etc. But to be on a total lock down like some of the states are imposing even in areas that have zero cases and people are already doing all the common sense measures....it's hard to accept and keep doing it without an end in sight. I'm not protesting...I'm not doing anything I shouldn't be doing....but if they closed the garden section at Walmart (where I already have to go to for 'essentials') and I couldn't even get birdseed or soil to repot a plant...If I'm forbidden to walk to a neighbor to leave them cookies or chat from their yard to porch....that just seems like an additional poke in the eye given how little our immediate area is affected and how much we are already giving up for the overall good.

 

[Maria D]

I haven't read through all 5 pages so maybe someone else already stated something like this but here goes. If I were ridiculously wealthy I would buy a shitload of the most efficient killing machines for recreational use available and then pay angry men *who are not white* to openly and legally carry them wherever they go. I would encourage them to organize a protest where they shout vague nonsensical slogans against politicians or people they don't like...things like "Lock him up!" and "Jews. Will Not. Replace. Us." I would sit back and smirk at anyone who thought this might be threatening and encourage them to stay home and not join the protest if they weren't into that sort of thing.

@Alex T , open carry is only for white people here in the U.S. If this same protest had happened with a bunch of angry black men, tear gas would have broken it up right quick.

 

[redwood66]

Bullshyte.

 

[redwood66]

I haven't read through all 5 pages so maybe someone else already stated something like this but here goes. If I were ridiculously wealthy I would buy a shitload of the most efficient killing machines for recreational use available and then pay angry men *who are not white* to openly and legally carry them wherever they go. I would encourage them to organize a protest where they shout vague nonsensical slogans against politicians or people they don't like...things like "Lock him up!" and "Jews. Will Not. Replace. Us." I would sit back and smirk at anyone who thought this might be threatening and encourage them to stay home and not join the protest if they weren't into that sort of thing.

@Alex T , open carry is only for white people here in the U.S. If this same protest had happened with a bunch of angry black men, tear gas would have broken it up right quick.

Look at you with all your privilege going use those "people who are not white" to attempt to prove your point. This is disgusting. What a white knight you are. Racism is the liberal attempt to shut down conversation and you wield it with aplomb.

I'm plenty happy with people of any color exercising their rights.

 

[MaisOuiMadame]

@redwood66- agreed. Governor Whitmer went over the top.

"The governor’s order provides that residents cannot leave their homes except for essential services such as food or medical supplies, or engage in outdoor physical activity. It also bans travel to second homes and vacation properties."

Though I do not support people carrying firearms during protests.

Michigan residents sue Governor Whitmer over coronavirus pandemic orders

Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer faces at least two federal lawsuits challenging her April 9 executive order to combat the coronavirus outbreak, including requirements that residents stay at home and most businesses close.

www.reuters.com

France has been living like this since 3/13 .

Our situation being not as bad as NY.