What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceScope?

[Rockdiamond]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

Sweet!!
I don't know how I got that wrong- the HCA has not been changed since 2003, yes?

Glad I was wrong abut the score in any event, it means we do see things more eye to eye.
I really loved that diamond.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

Back to the topic.
There have been many good answers posted, and most of them are on the money.
Mainly the interest from the cut geeks in the trade bought us all here, and still does.
From time to time when a prosumer helping a consumer newbie needs some help with a tricky question they will send any one of many of us an email. I had one on Sunday, to come and assist on a tricky question.
We do consider it important that the information provided is not inaccurate.

Is it bad?
Is Pricescope broken?
I don't think so, but it has evolved and is a little different, as have the tastes of many of the diamond lovers who have moved into fancy shapes and old cut styles as one example.

Could we find ways to help the poor guys who lurk (we estimate that maybe 1/100 actually post a question) here trying to get the lady they are about to propose to the best looking diamond on their X months salary and savings. I think the answer is YES.
One of my pet hates is that the Amazonins of the world have introduced cookie based trailing commissions that have spawned all sorts of websites that help us find places to spend our money. Sometimes these are review sites that really do add value, many of the travel related sites seem to do a great job. I have grave reservations about this in the diamond buying world however - not only based on current practices - but also how this might evolve over time. I have no doubt about the good intentions of Bezos and Amazon, but I doubt they will survive in the upcoming Alibaba battle. That whole secret commission referral business ............

Anyway, we have a community here. I have been here since 1999, well before the forums began. Its a wonderful and supportive place with great get togethers, happy advertisers and listing suppliers and good behavior abundant (even David and my battles have not precluded us from working together in the offline world).

Will PS be the same in the next decade? Surely not. Will it be better? I hope so.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

Back to the topic.
There have been many good answers posted, and most of them are on the money.
Mainly the interest from the cut geeks in the trade bought us all here, and still does.
From time to time when a prosumer helping a consumer newbie needs some help with a tricky question they will send any one of many of us an email. I had one on Sunday, to come and assist on a tricky question.
We do consider it important that the information provided is not inaccurate.

Is it bad?
Is Pricescope broken?
I don't think so, but it has evolved and is a little different, as have the tastes of many of the diamond lovers who have moved into fancy shapes and old cut styles as one example.

Could we find ways to help the poor guys who lurk (we estimate that maybe 1/100 actually post a question) here trying to get the lady they are about to propose to the best looking diamond on their X months salary and savings. I think the answer is YES.
One of my pet hates is that the Amazonins of the world have introduced cookie based trailing commissions that have spawned all sorts of websites that help us find places to spend our money. Sometimes these are review sites that really do add value, many of the travel related sites seem to do a great job. I have grave reservations about this in the diamond buying world however - not only based on current practices - but also how this might evolve over time. I have no doubt about the good intentions of Bezos and Amazon, but I doubt they will survive in the upcoming Alibaba battle. That whole secret commission referral business ............

Anyway, we have a community here. I have been here since 1999, well before the forums began. Its a wonderful and supportive place with great get togethers, happy advertisers and listing suppliers and good behavior abundant (even David and my battles have not precluded us from working together in the offline world).

Will PS be the same in the next decade? Surely not. Will it be better? I hope so.

Hi, Garry! Could you please explain the part in bold? I am not familiar with that story. Do you mean that Amazon might go out of business???

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

Back to the topic.
There have been many good answers posted, and most of them are on the money.
Mainly the interest from the cut geeks in the trade bought us all here, and still does.
From time to time when a prosumer helping a consumer newbie needs some help with a tricky question they will send any one of many of us an email. I had one on Sunday, to come and assist on a tricky question.
We do consider it important that the information provided is not inaccurate.

Is it bad?
Is Pricescope broken?
I don't think so, but it has evolved and is a little different, as have the tastes of many of the diamond lovers who have moved into fancy shapes and old cut styles as one example.

Could we find ways to help the poor guys who lurk (we estimate that maybe 1/100 actually post a question) here trying to get the lady they are about to propose to the best looking diamond on their X months salary and savings. I think the answer is YES.
One of my pet hates is that the Amazonins of the world have introduced cookie based trailing commissions that have spawned all sorts of websites that help us find places to spend our money. Sometimes these are review sites that really do add value, many of the travel related sites seem to do a great job. I have grave reservations about this in the diamond buying world however - not only based on current practices - but also how this might evolve over time. I have no doubt about the good intentions of Bezos and Amazon, but I doubt they will survive in the upcoming Alibaba battle. That whole secret commission referral business ............

Anyway, we have a community here. I have been here since 1999, well before the forums began. Its a wonderful and supportive place with great get togethers, happy advertisers and listing suppliers and good behavior abundant (even David and my battles have not precluded us from working together in the offline world).

Will PS be the same in the next decade? Surely not. Will it be better? I hope so.

Hi, Garry! Could you please explain the part in bold? I am not familiar with that story. Do you mean that Amazon might go out of business???

Which part DS? That these companies that use cookies to give undeclared commissions that mean we pay more for goods?
Or that Alibaba has come from nowhere in retail to have a higher share value than Amazon and will probably facilitate more sales than Amazon and eBay combined. I am sure you can find plenty of news on the second topic. The affiliate cookie programs are harder to find out about. I do not think the news media even know about it?

 

[Diamond2014]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

diamondseeker2006,

Maybe I can answer your question about the affiliated cookies since my past was computer related. When you Google something like "Electric Heater", Google will remember your IP address and affiliated words you have searched "Electric Heater". After that, every time you go to ANY website using any computer inside your house that use the same IP address, you'll see advertisement on the top or right side or left side of any website such as Walmart ads for electric heater. You go to Amazon.com and you'll see how Amazon.com bring up electric heaters in your front page. Then you log into your Facebook and somehow you see Facebook also inserted an online retailer with a similar model of electric heater into your news Facebook news feeds.

Facebook and Google was suppose to be viral but somewhere along the line, they secretly settled a treaty and decided to share information with each others. So things you search on Google will pretty much be shared with all other retailers out there and those retailers ALREADY know exactly what you're looking for. All ads you see on many websites are Google Ads where the owner of the website get paid when someone click on it.

THAT is what Garry hate about going online. Cant really escape it though.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

diamondseeker2006,

Maybe I can answer your question about the affiliated cookies since my past was computer related. When you Google something like "Electric Heater", Google will remember your IP address and affiliated words you have searched "Electric Heater". After that, every time you go to ANY website using any computer inside your house that use the same IP address, you'll see advertisement on the top or right side or left side of any website such as Walmart ads for electric heater. You go to Amazon.com and you'll see how Amazon.com bring up electric heaters in your front page. Then you log into your Facebook and somehow you see Facebook also inserted an online retailer with a similar model of electric heater into your news Facebook news feeds.

Facebook and Google was suppose to be viral but somewhere along the line, they secretly settled a treaty and decided to share information with each others. So things you search on Google will pretty much be shared with all other retailers out there and those retailers ALREADY know exactly what you're looking for. All ads you see on many websites are Google Ads where the owner of the website get paid when someone click on it.

THAT is what Garry hate about going online. Cant really escape it though.

Ah, okay. I never, EVER click on ads to buy anything. I go directly to Amazon if I need to order something. If I have to have ads on sites I visit, I honestly prefer that they are of something I like. As you can imagine, I usually have diamond or jewelry vendors in the ads I see! Thanks for explaining!

Garry, I guess we'll see what happens with Alibaba, but I am probably going to hold out and stick with Amazon and Ebay as long as they are around.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

In terms of cut in regard to fancy shapes, I actually prefer the fact that Jonathan of GOG stopped spending time here debating and moved on to designing and producing well cut fancy shape diamonds (in addition to the well cut lines he already carried). That has a LOT more benefit to consumers, in my opinion.

It benefits him in the form of a branded cut. As consumers though, our choices now becomes limited to branded cuts. If one looks at RBs, we do not necessarily have to purchase branded cuts at a premium to get a well cut stone. I don't see why this cannot also apply to fancies.

Ditto what Chrono said.

My own two cents: The thinly-veiled branded-cut boosterism on the part of certain posters gets old.

Part of the fun of buying fancy cuts is the variety in appearance from stone-to-stone. I think branded fancy cuts take the fun out of the search.

Part of the fun for you? Maybe fun for another person is finding rare, outstanding cut stones that few in the world have. So please do not generalize your opinion to apply to everyone. I could care LESS about branding in terms of diamonds, but I DO care a lot about well cut diamonds. I happen to have admired DiaGem (Yoram) as a cutter long before GOG ever started working with him. And if one took the time to look at some of the newly cut antiques, they would find that they do differ in appearance from one another.

No one is limited to buying branded stones. All the generic stones are still out there in the thousands and no one ever has to pay a brand premium unless that is their stone choice. I am at least happy to have the choice between an ideal cut fancy and a lesser cut, whereas before, there were extremely few or no ideal cut fancies!

I also happen to adore the best cut old cuts such as RandG's Cartier OEC, ForteKitty's OEC (which I have seen in person), and I won't be able to name them all without leaving some great ones out, so I will stop with those two examples. Great cutters were around 100 years ago, too, and I would seek out stones of that caliber if I were personally looking. They are rare and a great treasure when found.

So I will always promote well cut stones here, but I do not try to force a newly cut antique style stone on someone who specifically comes looking for a true antique, and I also do not try to sway those looking at excellent, newly cut antique style stones toward antique stones that are not as well cut (which happens all the time). I still think the majority of new posters here are looking for modern round brilliants for engagement rings, and if that's what they want, I will help them find a well cut one since they are readily accessible.

I believe this forum was designed to educate people on cut quality, and I certainly appreciated that information when I first came here looking for a diamond almost 9 years ago. The options for well cut stones have definitely increased since I first came. That has to be a good thing. (Even David has had Yoram cut stones for him!!! )

 

[kenny]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

Part of the fun of buying fancy cuts is the variety in appearance from stone-to-stone. I think branded fancy cuts take the fun out of the search.

The Octavia is one of the many styles of Asschers.
I only want one, and the pattern and light performance is the ultimate, IMO.
I don't understand how that takes the fun out of the search.
You can also pick a Royal Asscher or perhaps there are other branded Asschers; then of course there are many styles of generic asschers.
To each their own.

I had a blast picking my rounds and fancy cuts, ACA, Solasfera and Octavias ... all branded cuts.
All are guaranteed to blow your head off with light performance and required zero shopping-effort cut-wise.
I accept that I paid some premium for the convenience and the bulls-eye cut quality.

If you feel it is more fun to shop for a generic stone, no problem.
Knock yourself out.

Does branding take the fun out?
For me, no.
For you, apparently.
So don't buy a branded fancy.

It's not all just one way for everyone.
People have different preferences and experiences.

 

[mochiko42]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

As a relative newbie, I sincerely appreciate Garry and other trade members' advice and input in these forums, as well as non-trade members. It's great to have perspective from both sides.

Second, I just want to chime in that Alibaba definitely did not come in from nowhere... maybe I have a different perspective as I live in Hong Kong, but the companies in the Alibaba group (taobao, Tmall, alipay, etc etc etc) are giants and almost have a monopoly in the online e-commerce here. Taobao is very popular for retail shopping here. But I can see how Alibaba appears to have sprung out of nowhere in the perspective of your average American consumer.

Eg. Last Tuesday, November 11, was Singles Day in China.I think that most Americans have not heard of the big 11/11 shopping day.. In retail terms,that's the equivalent of Black Friday for Americans. On 11/11, Alibaba alone (just one company) took in over US$9 billion in 24 hours. That is more than the $5.29 billion of U.S. online sales (from all retailers) from Thanksgiving through Cyber Monday (3-4 days) in 2013, and Chinese shoppers' appetite seems to be a bottomless pit right now from the unending parade of luxury goods shops I see around town these days...

 

[Dancing Fire]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

David
please show us a sparky 2ct RB with a 3ct diameter size.

Speaking of Fancy Shapes DF

OK, please post pics of your fancy shape "pancake" diamond...

So we can have another clusterXXXX while certain people tear apart my photographs...no thanks
But if you Google the term "Cushion Diamond" and look at the images, my photos are pretty easy to find

This isn't about my diamonds - it's about how to best advise people and have everyone live in peace and harmony....
And then I woke up.

Oh come on David ... you must start a "pancake stone" thread!..

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

diamondseeker2006,

Maybe I can answer your question about the affiliated cookies since my past was computer related. When you Google something like "Electric Heater", Google will remember your IP address and affiliated words you have searched "Electric Heater". After that, every time you go to ANY website using any computer inside your house that use the same IP address, you'll see advertisement on the top or right side or left side of any website such as Walmart ads for electric heater. You go to Amazon.com and you'll see how Amazon.com bring up electric heaters in your front page. Then you log into your Facebook and somehow you see Facebook also inserted an online retailer with a similar model of electric heater into your news Facebook news feeds.

Facebook and Google was suppose to be viral but somewhere along the line, they secretly settled a treaty and decided to share information with each others. So things you search on Google will pretty much be shared with all other retailers out there and those retailers ALREADY know exactly what you're looking for. All ads you see on many websites are Google Ads where the owner of the website get paid when someone click on it.

THAT is what Garry hate about going online. Cant really escape it though.

I actually find that rather helpful 2014. Its the trailing commissions I object to.
You clearly are overpaying for things without knowing about it! Paying a cut on the things you buy to websites that very often come up in searches (not adwords) and you go there thinking you found what you want only to have your time wasted. Then you find the thing you want somewhere else and buy it. And Whoah - the annoying website gets a 5 or 10% commission. Seriously!

 

[Tekate]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

Niel, What diamond did you bought or have and why did you make those choices? Why didnt you buy a Z color with I3 clarity since earth also made those? Whether human being declare the diamond's value or not, it still has value. And in reality, people want status, that's why they buy the best diamond that they can afford to out beat each others. If it's really for sentimental value, a 0.00001 carat with Z color and S3 Clarity would have been sufficient

Eeek! that may be true for a very few 'some' but I bought a diamond because it is beautiful, in my terms beautiful since I have a "K" that some might find 'warm' I disagree with the bolded statement..bigger is better with flaws to some, smaller and white is better to some.. being 'richer' than others means something to some.. but I think most people who find their way here, LOVE the look, sparkle, aura (yes aura of diamonds. MHO.

 

[Lula]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

In terms of cut in regard to fancy shapes, I actually prefer the fact that Jonathan of GOG stopped spending time here debating and moved on to designing and producing well cut fancy shape diamonds (in addition to the well cut lines he already carried). That has a LOT more benefit to consumers, in my opinion.

It benefits him in the form of a branded cut. As consumers though, our choices now becomes limited to branded cuts. If one looks at RBs, we do not necessarily have to purchase branded cuts at a premium to get a well cut stone. I don't see why this cannot also apply to fancies.

Ditto what Chrono said.

My own two cents: The thinly-veiled branded-cut boosterism on the part of certain posters gets old.

Part of the fun of buying fancy cuts is the variety in appearance from stone-to-stone. I think branded fancy cuts take the fun out of the search.

Part of the fun for you? Maybe fun for another person is finding rare, outstanding cut stones that few in the world have. So please do not generalize your opinion to apply to everyone. I could care LESS about branding in terms of diamonds, but I DO care a lot about well cut diamonds. I happen to have admired DiaGem (Yoram) as a cutter long before GOG ever started working with him. And if one took the time to look at some of the newly cut antiques, they would find that they do differ in appearance from one another.

No one is limited to buying branded stones. All the generic stones are still out there in the thousands and no one ever has to pay a brand premium unless that is their stone choice. I am at least happy to have the choice between an ideal cut fancy and a lesser cut, whereas before, there were extremely few or no ideal cut fancies! See, this attitude is the problem, DS. A fancy that is not branded is not necessarily a "lesser cut." You admit yourself in your next paragraph. But the attitude that non-branded stones are "lesser" is what I object to. Branded cuts come at a significant premium. With newbies, if we are not careful with the terms we use, we come off sounding like branded cuts are superior to generic cuts, and that to get a good stone, you've got to fork out the additional cash for a branded stone, and that is not the case.

I also happen to adore the best cut old cuts such as RandG's Cartier OEC, ForteKitty's OEC (which I have seen in person), and I won't be able to name them all without leaving some great ones out, so I will stop with those two examples. Great cutters were around 100 years ago, too, and I would seek out stones of that caliber if I were personally looking. They are rare and a great treasure when found. I agree with you .

So I will always promote well cut stones here, but I do not try to force a newly cut antique style stone on someone who specifically comes looking for a true antique, and I also do not try to sway those looking at excellent, newly cut antique style stones toward antique stones that are not as well cut (which happens all the time). I still think the majority of new posters here are looking for modern round brilliants for engagement rings, and if that's what they want, I will help them find a well cut one since they are readily accessible.

I believe this forum was designed to educate people on cut quality, and I certainly appreciated that information when I first came here looking for a diamond almost 9 years ago. The options for well cut stones have definitely increased since I first came. That has to be a good thing. (Even David has had Yoram cut stones for him!!! )I agree 100% with this statement. And I have nothing but respect for Yoram and the other cutters who have the skill to produce a finished diamond that maximizes the potential of an individual piece of diamond rough. It's an amazing skill. And many cutters do it every day -- anonymously.

 

[Lula]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

Part of the fun of buying fancy cuts is the variety in appearance from stone-to-stone. I think branded fancy cuts take the fun out of the search.

The Octavia is one of the many styles of Asschers.
I only want one, and the pattern and light performance is the ultimate, IMO.
I don't understand how that takes the fun out of the search.
You can also pick a Royal Asscher or perhaps there are other branded Asschers; then of course there are many styles of generic asschers.
To each their own.

I had a blast picking my rounds and fancy cuts, ACA, Solasfera and Octavias ... all branded cuts.
All are guaranteed to blow your head off with light performance and required zero shopping-effort cut-wise.
I accept that I paid some premium for the convenience and the bulls-eye cut quality.

If you feel it is more fun to shop for a generic stone, no problem.
Knock yourself out.

Does branding take the fun out?
For me, no.
For you, apparently.
So don't buy a branded fancy.

It's not all just one way for everyone.
People have different preferences and experiences.

I can't disagree with anything you say. Especially your point about convenience. There are a lot of posters who come here with a short time line, a lot of cash, minimal interest in learning about the nuances of cut, and a picky significant other. So, sure, those posters can benefit from the consistency and convenience of a branded cut.

Diamond connoisseurs, such as yourself, understand and appreciate the differences between a traditional assher and a specialty cut like the Octavia. The typical diamond shopper, not so much.

Again, t's not that branded cuts aren't beautiful. It's not that they aren't cut well and, most important (which I've been hammering on for years with rounds) they provide cut consistency from stone-to-stone. Those are indeed all pluses. My objection is to the inference on the part of several posters that it's not possible to find a generic cut that it cut as well as a branded cut, and that is simply not true. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear.

Gypsy and Karl are two posters (there are others) who have always emphasized to newbies that personal preference counts a lot when shopping for fancies since no two fancies are alike. To me, this is the fun of shopping for a fancy -- but, you're right, that's just me.

 

[denverappraiser]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

The answer to the original question may be that they’ve never really been here. Nearly every jeweler is aware of Pricescope, and 99.9% of them have never posted. The vast majority never even look beyond their first visit or two. Why not?

#1 It’s time consuming. For the active participants with those long informative posts like you used to see from Jon Pollard or Rhino, it’s easy to commit 10 hours a week or more to this. Even just reading it is time consuming.

#2 There’s rather little payoff. By and large, jewelers are local businesses where the vast majority of their business has to do with people who are within, say, 50 miles of the store. That is to say, nearly everyone on pricescope is unlikely to be a customer. There are exceptions, of course, but most jewelers are highly dependent on people walking in the door and Pricescope does not encourage that.

#3 Fear. If you say something boneheaded here it gets roundly criticized and the whole thing gets locked downed in the Google index forever. It’s impossible to fix and the potential for disaster is huge. The prosumers are anonymous, the professionals are not. Participating here comes with a risk that is definitely real.

#4 It’s MORE work. Even those who love their jobs want to get away from it from time to time. People who are immersed in diamonds 8 hours a day don’t usually want to spend their spare time doing more of it. For the prosumers it’s a hobby, for the pro’s it looks a lot like their jobs.

The historical exception has mostly been with advertising sellers. These are people who were here building up their reputations and hoping you’ll click through the link in the signature and like what you find. For them, everyone on the site is a potential customer. What changed to lead them to post less is a curious question but for the ones I’ve talked to, it has to do with the changes in the rules about what gets called self-promotion (in addition to all of the above).

 

[Rockdiamond]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

Neil- my guess would be that less than 10% of jewelry store owners have ever heard of this site. By no means " nearly all"

A huge challenge for any business today is figuring out ways to meet the Internet head-on. You really can't avoid it.
Unfortunately in the jewelry business there were very few that took the right course in this regard. We can see the effects of this by looking at how many B&M retail jewelry stores were operating successfully 15 years ago compared to today.
Part of that is exactly the fact that so few jewelers have read Pricescope.
In terms of it being too much work…a wise man once said do what you love and you will never have to work.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

Part of the fun of buying fancy cuts is the variety in appearance from stone-to-stone. I think branded fancy cuts take the fun out of the search.

The Octavia is one of the many styles of Asschers.
I only want one, and the pattern and light performance is the ultimate, IMO.
I don't understand how that takes the fun out of the search.
You can also pick a Royal Asscher or perhaps there are other branded Asschers; then of course there are many styles of generic asschers.
To each their own.

I had a blast picking my rounds and fancy cuts, ACA, Solasfera and Octavias ... all branded cuts.
All are guaranteed to blow your head off with light performance and required zero shopping-effort cut-wise.
I accept that I paid some premium for the convenience and the bulls-eye cut quality.

If you feel it is more fun to shop for a generic stone, no problem.
Knock yourself out.

Does branding take the fun out?
For me, no.
For you, apparently.
So don't buy a branded fancy.

It's not all just one way for everyone.
People have different preferences and experiences.

Guaranteed by whom?
What you're calling convenience is pushing your preference on other people and telling them that it's a better diamond. In fact many of the branded stones constantly foisted on people here are much deeper and look a lot smaller than the well cut stones that other people love.
So you get them to overspend by convincing them you know something that they don't. I'm curious to who benefits from this "convenience"

 

[denverappraiser]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

When I talk to jewelers, both locally and at conventions, they have nearly all been here to at least check it out. Nearly any Google search on a diamond topic leads to Pricescope on the first page of results.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

I don't believe there are any stats on this. It could be just that we run in very different circles.
But my point about jewelers not adapting would also include them not really taking the time to look on Google to see how it's affecting their business.
How many times does someone come on here to ask a question and mentioned that the jeweler they visited locally never heard of the HCA for example.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

In terms of cut in regard to fancy shapes, I actually prefer the fact that Jonathan of GOG stopped spending time here debating and moved on to designing and producing well cut fancy shape diamonds (in addition to the well cut lines he already carried). That has a LOT more benefit to consumers, in my opinion.

It benefits him in the form of a branded cut. As consumers though, our choices now becomes limited to branded cuts. If one looks at RBs, we do not necessarily have to purchase branded cuts at a premium to get a well cut stone. I don't see why this cannot also apply to fancies.

Ditto what Chrono said.

My own two cents: The thinly-veiled branded-cut boosterism on the part of certain posters gets old.

Part of the fun of buying fancy cuts is the variety in appearance from stone-to-stone. I think branded fancy cuts take the fun out of the search.

Part of the fun for you? Maybe fun for another person is finding rare, outstanding cut stones that few in the world have. So please do not generalize your opinion to apply to everyone. I could care LESS about branding in terms of diamonds, but I DO care a lot about well cut diamonds. I happen to have admired DiaGem (Yoram) as a cutter long before GOG ever started working with him. And if one took the time to look at some of the newly cut antiques, they would find that they do differ in appearance from one another.

No one is limited to buying branded stones. All the generic stones are still out there in the thousands and no one ever has to pay a brand premium unless that is their stone choice. I am at least happy to have the choice between an ideal cut fancy and a lesser cut, whereas before, there were extremely few or no ideal cut fancies! See, this attitude is the problem, DS. A fancy that is not branded is not necessarily a "lesser cut." You admit yourself in your next paragraph. But the attitude that non-branded stones are "lesser" is what I object to. Branded cuts come at a significant premium. With newbies, if we are not careful with the terms we use, we come off sounding like branded cuts are superior to generic cuts, and that to get a good stone, you've got to fork out the additional cash for a branded stone, and that is not the case.

I also happen to adore the best cut old cuts such as RandG's Cartier OEC, ForteKitty's OEC (which I have seen in person), and I won't be able to name them all without leaving some great ones out, so I will stop with those two examples. Great cutters were around 100 years ago, too, and I would seek out stones of that caliber if I were personally looking. They are rare and a great treasure when found. I agree with you .

So I will always promote well cut stones here, but I do not try to force a newly cut antique style stone on someone who specifically comes looking for a true antique, and I also do not try to sway those looking at excellent, newly cut antique style stones toward antique stones that are not as well cut (which happens all the time). I still think the majority of new posters here are looking for modern round brilliants for engagement rings, and if that's what they want, I will help them find a well cut one since they are readily accessible.

I believe this forum was designed to educate people on cut quality, and I certainly appreciated that information when I first came here looking for a diamond almost 9 years ago. The options for well cut stones have definitely increased since I first came. That has to be a good thing. (Even David has had Yoram cut stones for him!!! )I agree 100% with this statement. And I have nothing but respect for Yoram and the other cutters who have the skill to produce a finished diamond that maximizes the potential of an individual piece of diamond rough. It's an amazing skill. And many cutters do it every day -- anonymously.

Lula, I am not sure why I can't make this clear. I said that brand means zero to me in regard to diamonds, other than in a case like RandG's ring which is Cartier and carries a premium because it is a valuable and unique jewelry piece due to it's brand and perhaps provenance. CUT is important to me and brand is irrelevant in regard to loose diamonds. When equal cut is considered, then absolutely buy the one that appeals more or is cheaper. Would I have bought ForteKitty's diamond? OF COURSE!!!! Not only is it a fabulously cut stone, it was also the deal of the century! Of course, it also involved risk as it was buying a diamond unseen off ebay. Those risks sometime work out well and sometimes they don't. When I said "lesser cut", I simply meant "less well cut". As in, an "excellent" cut generic modern round brilliant is better, in my opinion, than a "good" cut modern round brilliant, so I am not going to recommend anything but excellent cut in any types of stones, whether branded or not, antique or new. For those looking for antique stones, I would encourage them to wait for an excellent one rather than settle for a poorly cut one, especially for a ring.

I will give you one last example regarding new stones. I bought an excellent cut, generic asscher for a right hand ring. There were Octavia Asschers and Royal Asschers available at the time. Do I feel my asscher is inferior and needs to be replaced? No. It was well cut to begin with and I couldn't justify the cost difference for a specialty cut for a right hand ring. It's kind of like the difference between super ideal cut and ideal cut. If money were no object I might always buy super ideal, but for most coming here, budget is not unlimited and trade-offs have to be made. But we are still talking about choosing between two or more excellent cut stones, not excellent versus fair.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

[quote="Rockdiamond|

Guaranteed by whom?
What you're calling convenience is pushing your preference on other people and telling them that it's a better diamond. In fact many of the branded stones constantly foisted on people here are much deeper and look a lot smaller than the well cut stones that other people love.
So you get them to overspend by convincing them you know something that they don't. I'm curious to who benefits from this "convenience"[/quote]



David...you will, if I send you a blank check and let you pick the stone with your eyes...

 

[Karl_K]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

I will give you one last example regarding new stones. I bought an excellent cut, generic asscher for a right hand ring. There were Octavia Asschers and Royal Asschers available at the time. Do I feel my asscher is inferior and needs to be replaced? No. It was well cut to begin with and I couldn't justify the cost difference for a specialty cut for a right hand ring. It's kind of like the difference between super ideal cut and ideal cut. If money were no object I might always buy super ideal, but for most coming here, budget is not unlimited and trade-offs have to be made. But we are still talking about choosing between two or more excellent cut stones, not excellent versus fair.

I say bravo, I love well cut "generic" asschers and before being forced into the trade loved helping people find one.
They do require a lot more work finding a good one than just buying a branded cut.

 

[denverappraiser]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

I have cut way back on my participation here although I’m not one of the professionals who have fully gone away. For me the issue has been time. I tend to write fairly long posts and I try to thoughtfully answer the question given. Some take over an hour to put together and typical is at least 10 minutes, and I type pretty fast. I spend more time reading than I do writing. I’ve got 7400 posts. At 10 minutes each plus another 10 minutes worth of reading, that’s something like 2400 hours that I’ve devoted to this body of work. I’m not complaining, it’s worked out pretty well for me, I’m just explaining the logic. That’s YEAR of full time work! The payoff, for me, has been in improving my overall reputation both with the public and within the trade, improving my education, and improving my ability to explain certain things to clients. I do get some clients who look me up here but, frankly, it’s not all that many. Like jewelers, appraisals are mostly a local affair. I’ve made some remarkably good friends including, for example, two of the groomsmen at my wedding (I got married in 2012). I find it entertaining and it definitely gives me something to talk about at the appraiser conventions. I don’t regret it a bit but I can certainly see how a neighborhood jeweler would be shy to dive into that.

 

[Karl_K]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

The old days were not the ultimate either.
In one time period if someone came here asking for a cushion they would be told by 5 people yuck who wants one of them them you want an ACA RB they are the best.
I worked very hard to change that.
PS is more inclusive of different diamonds that it has ever been.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

Speaking of local jewelers and PS, I went to a wonderful jewelry store in a city near where we vacation last summer. They had been mentioned on PS because they carry rings made by a very popular and well known vendor here as well as many other beautiful jewelry pieces. I mentioned to the jeweler that I had found them through PS, and I had come to see their X brand rings and the rest of their stock. I figured incorrectly that they would see that it would be a good thing to treat people nicely who post often on the number one diamond and jewelry forum. But his resentment came out quickly after I mentioned that I loved antique rings and had come to see X brand but had a newly cut OEC/AVR. He said he knew what they were and the seller of them was really good at marketing. He did not bother to look at my stone or even have the courtesy to say it was nice. He even carried branded ideal cut round brilliants, so it's not like he was opposed to branded stones in general. Fortunately my visit was salvaged because he turned me over to a lovely sales associate who kindly showed me everything I wanted to see. But I wouldn't buy anything there or recommend them on the forum because of the jeweler's very poor customer service.

I think it is amazing to see jewelers who do not embrace the power of advertising through the internet. I am sure many will close their doors. Treating people with kindness, fairness, and respect and carrying fine quality jewelry gets you a lot of positive reviews from consumers, and that is good, free advertising. But I do not recommend that diamond vendors post here anymore, because saying almost anything positive in regard to their own items is labelled shilling.

 

[msop04]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

The old days were not the ultimate either.
In one time period if someone came here asking for a cushion they would be told by 5 people yuck who wants one of them them you want an ACA RB they are the best.
I worked very hard to change that.
PS is more inclusive of different diamonds that it has ever been.

I have only been reading PS for about five years… So obviously I'm not one of the old posters. However, after searching and reading several older posts, I agree that the PS posters now are more accepting of all different shapes, cuts, sizes and styles than in the posts from ten years ago. I'm very happy that the emphasis is put on what you like, rather than what advertising says you should want.

 

[msop04]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

I do not recommend that diamond vendors post here anymore, because saying almost anything positive in regard to their own items is labelled shilling.

Unfortunately, this seems to be the case as of late. [emoji17]

 

[Tekate]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

I thoroughly enjoy your posts, as also GOG, rockdiamond, Mr. Holloway, Wink.. I find most threads are consumer started (most times unless educational) and professionals chime in when they have an opinion, I appreciate that very much.. I hope the professionals that have come around since I found pricescope and joined stay. Many of the long term posters who still post here know a heck of a lot and I appreciate them very much, because in the end, we want our 'peers' to recomend, like Traveladvisor... this is a great site, didn't know it in its heyday but it's very much appreciated.




'

I have cut way back on my participation here although I’m not one of the professionals who have fully gone away. For me the issue has been time. I tend to write fairly long posts and I try to thoughtfully answer the question given. Some take over an hour to put together and typical is at least 10 minutes, and I type pretty fast. I spend more time reading than I do writing. I’ve got 7400 posts. At 10 minutes each plus another 10 minutes worth of reading, that’s something like 2400 hours that I’ve devoted to this body of work. I’m not complaining, it’s worked out pretty well for me, I’m just explaining the logic. That’s YEAR of full time work! The payoff, for me, has been in improving my overall reputation both with the public and within the trade, improving my education, and improving my ability to explain certain things to clients. I do get some clients who look me up here but, frankly, it’s not all that many. Like jewelers, appraisals are mostly a local affair. I’ve made some remarkably good friends including, for example, two of the groomsmen at my wedding (I got married in 2012). I find it entertaining and it definitely gives me something to talk about at the appraiser conventions. I don’t regret it a bit but I can certainly see how a neighborhood jeweler would be shy to dive into that.

 

[kenny]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

... My objection is to the inference on the part of several posters that it's not possible to find a generic cut that it cut as well as a branded cut, and that is simply not true. ...

I agree with you.
Well cut generics ARE out there.
I wore a superbly-cut generic asscher from Good Old Gold for years and loved it.

I have never stated or intentionally inferred, "it's not possible to find a generic cut that it cut as well as a branded cut".

If someone 'infers' that from what I have written, then that's on them.
Inference can be as much in the reader's mind as the writer's.

Also I fully concede that just getting a branded diamond is not as much of an adventurous diamond safari as seeking out a well-cut generic.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Re: What happen to all the professional jewelers on PriceSco

... My objection is to the inference on the part of several posters that it's not possible to find a generic cut that it cut as well as a branded cut, and that is simply not true. ...

I agree with you.
Well cut generics ARE out there.
I wore a superbly-cut generic asscher from Good Old Gold for years and loved it.

I have never stated or intentionally inferred, "it's not possible to find a generic cut that it cut as well as a branded cut".

If someone 'infers' that from what I have written, then that's on them.
Inference can be as much in the reader's mind as the writer's.

Also I fully concede that just getting a branded diamond is not as much of an adventurous diamond safari as seeking out a well-cut generic.

How about intentionally inferring it's less dangerous to buy a branded diamond?
You use the word "adventurous"- thinly veiled.
If a person knew they loved a particular brand because they'd seen it with their own eyes and are aware of the additional cost, combined with smaller size then it does take away guesswork- but you're also implying how difficult it is to find a well cut non branded stone- which is also not necessarily the case if we're comparing to paying top dollar for a branded stone.