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Daisi2112

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Hello all,

What does it mean when a diamond is very bright (makes the diamond look larger), very white (colorless), but only has fire in one kind of light? Other than that one kind of light (I think it''s florescent), the diamond just appears very ice white and bright but not much fire?
 

Kaleigh

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Too broad of a question?? Not sure what you are asking, can you be more specific, and who is telling you this?
 

Lorelei

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Date: 3/12/2009 2:55:02 PM
Author:Daisi2112
Hello all,

What does it mean when a diamond is very bright (makes the diamond look larger), very white (colorless), but only has fire in one kind of light? Other than that one kind of light (I think it''s florescent), the diamond just appears very ice white and bright but not much fire?
If I am understanding you correctly, I think you are referring to a bright, shallow angled and possibly shallow depthed diamond. These diamonds can look spready and large for their weight, according to Garry Holloway are particularly suitable for pendant and earring diamonds due to the way these are viewed. The trade off is that these diamonds may not show as much fire as a more balanced diamond. But I am only guessing, I would need more info on a particular diamond to be able to tell you more.
 

Daisi2112

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Date: 3/13/2009 3:04:11 AM
Author: Lorelei
Date: 3/12/2009 2:55:02 PM

Author:Daisi2112

Hello all,


What does it mean when a diamond is very bright (makes the diamond look larger), very white (colorless), but only has fire in one kind of light? Other than that one kind of light (I think it's florescent), the diamond just appears very ice white and bright but not much fire?
If I am understanding you correctly, I think you are referring to a bright, shallow angled and possibly shallow depthed diamond. These diamonds can look spready and large for their weight, according to Garry Holloway are particularly suitable for pendant and earring diamonds due to the way these are viewed. The trade off is that these diamonds may not show as much fire as a more balanced diamond. But I am only guessing, I would need more info on a particular diamond to be able to tell you more.

I don't have specific number specs, but I have a diamond (an RB) that looks right for it's size, very clean, and colorless (icy white). It was gotten through a jeweler, def. not a mall store and cost quite a shiny penny. It is very bright in any situation, especially in the sunlight, but it really only shows fire when I am under a certain light, like at Barnes and Nobles. When I am under the sun, it has fire, but not a lot. It's beautiful, but I just don't understand why some other diamonds have a lot of fire under the sun, and in almost every lighting circumstance.

Not sure if this helps some more.

So confused
 

Ellen

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Hi Daisi,

Lorelei's "guess" would be mine too. There are different combinations of numbers and angles on every diamond. Those with larger table, and shallow crowns/pavilions, do tend to lose fire. From your description, it sounds like that could possibly be the case. Those with the right crown/pavilion angles coupled with a table in the right range will make for a diamond that shows nice fire.

If you are unhappy with it, is there any chance you could tade it back to the jeweler you got it from and get a different one?
 

Daisi2112

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Date: 3/13/2009 6:58:23 AM
Author: Ellen
Hi Daisi,


Lorelei''s ''guess'' would be mine too. There are different combinations of numbers and angles on every diamond. Those with larger table, and shallow crowns/pavilions, do tend to lose fire. From your description, it sounds like that could possibly be the case. Those with the right crown/pavilion angles coupled with a table in the right range will make for a diamond that shows nice fire.


If you are unhappy with it, is there any chance you could tade it back to the jeweler you got it from and get a different one?
I''m not sure if it is definitely too large a spread, I read that it''s like actually a millimeter under what a 1.5 RB should be. Could it still be shallow then? ( I don''t have the cut numbers unfortunately), maybe I am wrong. Could it possibly be a tad too deep?

I feel bad giving it back, my fiance got it from his father who is in the jewelry business. I really like the diamond, it''s gorgeous but I just always wondered why it would only produce fire under the lights at Barnes and Nobles.... otherwise it''s just really really bright.


 

Lorelei

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Date: 3/13/2009 8:28:45 AM
Author: Daisi2112

Date: 3/13/2009 6:58:23 AM
Author: Ellen
Hi Daisi,


Lorelei''s ''guess'' would be mine too. There are different combinations of numbers and angles on every diamond. Those with larger table, and shallow crowns/pavilions, do tend to lose fire. From your description, it sounds like that could possibly be the case. Those with the right crown/pavilion angles coupled with a table in the right range will make for a diamond that shows nice fire.


If you are unhappy with it, is there any chance you could tade it back to the jeweler you got it from and get a different one?
I''m not sure if it is definitely too large a spread, I read that it''s like actually a millimeter under what a 1.5 RB should be. Could it still be shallow then? ( I don''t have the cut numbers unfortunately), maybe I am wrong. Could it possibly be a tad too deep?

I feel bad giving it back, my fiance got it from his father who is in the jewelry business. I really like the diamond, it''s gorgeous but I just always wondered why it would only produce fire under the lights at Barnes and Nobles.... otherwise it''s just really really bright.


You will only see fire if the lighting is right, you won''t notice it in all lights. If you had the proportions and angles we could tell you more. It is possible it is shallow angled which gives it a more bright and brilliant look, but as I say I am only speculating. Deep angled diamonds tend to show more in the way of light leakage, they can look dark and lack '' energy'' at times, sometimes you can see a dark ring around the table.
 

Stone-cold11

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Date: 3/13/2009 8:28:45 AM
Author: Daisi2112

I''m not sure if it is definitely too large a spread, I read that it''s like actually a millimeter under what a 1.5 RB should be. Could it still be shallow then? ( I don''t have the cut numbers unfortunately), maybe I am wrong. Could it possibly be a tad too deep?
So what is it''s actual weight?
 

Ellen

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Date: 3/13/2009 8:41:22 AM
Author: Lorelei

You will only see fire if the lighting is right, you won''t notice it in all lights. If you had the proportions and angles we could tell you more. It is possible it is shallow angled which gives it a more bright and brilliant look, but as I say I am only speculating. Deep angled diamonds tend to show more in the way of light leakage, they can look dark and lack '' energy'' at times, sometimes you can see a dark ring around the table.
Agreed, but not seeing fire in the sun does make it sound more like it might be shallow....
 

Daisi2112

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Date: 3/13/2009 8:42:41 AM
Author: Stone-cold11
Date: 3/13/2009 8:28:45 AM

Author: Daisi2112


I''m not sure if it is definitely too large a spread, I read that it''s like actually a millimeter under what a 1.5 RB should be. Could it still be shallow then? ( I don''t have the cut numbers unfortunately), maybe I am wrong. Could it possibly be a tad too deep?
So what is it''s actual weight?
The weight of the center stone is 1.51 exact.

I think it is shallow angled because it has a very bright and brilliant look with loads of white flashes instead of colored ones, it''s def not a deep angled diamond coz there are no dark spots or rings in it.

I kinda wish there was more fire, but at the same time it''s a gorgeous diamond and my fiance worked really hard to get it :)
 

Ellen

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Date: 3/13/2009 10:55:40 AM
Author: Daisi2112


The weight of the center stone is 1.51 exact.

I think it is shallow angled because it has a very bright and brilliant look with loads of white flashes instead of colored ones, it''s def not a deep angled diamond coz there are no dark spots or rings in it.

I kinda wish there was more fire, but at the same time it''s a gorgeous diamond and my fiance worked really hard to get it :)
Well, you are not the first girl to be in this exact type of pickle, it happens. I totally understand not wanting to hurt your guys feelings. However, unless you think you can get over what it''s lacking, you might consider having a very honest/polite talk with him, because it will bug you forever if you can''t. You could tell him how much you appreciate the stone and it''s cut (which sorta takes any blame off him personally), but you think you would prefer one cut more towards fire. Maybe explain to him there is a difference, he may not know!

There have been gals that just couldn''t keep the original, and in the end got something else. Guys "usually" get it, and there''s a happy ending. But you know best.
 

Stone-cold11

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Date: 3/13/2009 10:55:40 AM
Author: Daisi2112
Date: 3/13/2009 8:42:41 AM

Author: Stone-cold11

Date: 3/13/2009 8:28:45 AM


Author: Daisi2112



I''m not sure if it is definitely too large a spread, I read that it''s like actually a millimeter under what a 1.5 RB should be. Could it still be shallow then? ( I don''t have the cut numbers unfortunately), maybe I am wrong. Could it possibly be a tad too deep?

So what is it''s actual weight?
The weight of the center stone is 1.51 exact.

I think it is shallow angled because it has a very bright and brilliant look with loads of white flashes instead of colored ones, it''s def not a deep angled diamond coz there are no dark spots or rings in it.

I kinda wish there was more fire, but at the same time it''s a gorgeous diamond and my fiance worked really hard to get it :)
Hmm... is there a typo somewhere? 1mm difference is not small. 1.5c RB are typically around 7.4mm dia.

If it is a typo and a shallow angle stone too, seems like it has a very thick girdle to hide that much weight. These kind of stones should have a better spread not just about the same or smaller, for the same girdle thickness.
 

Bliss

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Joined
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Messages
3,016
I wonder if this is like a Brilliant Ideal Cut or Fiery Ideal Cut thing?

I think many of Tiffany diamonds, for example, tend to be BIC and show a lot of dazzling white light... but not as much fire.
 

Daisi2112

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Messages
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Date: 3/13/2009 11:07:48 AM
Author: Stone-cold11
Date: 3/13/2009 10:55:40 AM

Author: Daisi2112

Date: 3/13/2009 8:42:41 AM


Author: Stone-cold11


Date: 3/13/2009 8:28:45 AM



Author: Daisi2112




I''m not sure if it is definitely too large a spread, I read that it''s like actually a millimeter under what a 1.5 RB should be. Could it still be shallow then? ( I don''t have the cut numbers unfortunately), maybe I am wrong. Could it possibly be a tad too deep?


So what is it''s actual weight?

The weight of the center stone is 1.51 exact.


I think it is shallow angled because it has a very bright and brilliant look with loads of white flashes instead of colored ones, it''s def not a deep angled diamond coz there are no dark spots or rings in it.


I kinda wish there was more fire, but at the same time it''s a gorgeous diamond and my fiance worked really hard to get it :)

Hmm... is there a typo somewhere? 1mm difference is not small. 1.5c RB are typically around 7.4mm dia.


If it is a typo and a shallow angle stone too, seems like it has a very thick girdle to hide that much weight. These kind of stones should have a better spread not just about the same or smaller, for the same girdle thickness.
Yup! Accidentally made a typo my bad!!! sorry!

The measurements I have for it are 7.12 x 4.95 (carat weight is 1.51 RB). I think the spread is a tiny under, right?

Is there such a thing as a Brilliant Ideal Cut or a Fiery Ideal Cut??
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
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42,064
Date: 3/13/2009 12:33:48 PM
Author: Daisi2112





Date: 3/13/2009 11:07:48 AM
Author: Stone-cold11





Date: 3/13/2009 10:55:40 AM

Author: Daisi2112






Date: 3/13/2009 8:42:41 AM


Author: Stone-cold11







Date: 3/13/2009 8:28:45 AM



Author: Daisi2112




I'm not sure if it is definitely too large a spread, I read that it's like actually a millimeter under what a 1.5 RB should be. Could it still be shallow then? ( I don't have the cut numbers unfortunately), maybe I am wrong. Could it possibly be a tad too deep?


So what is it's actual weight?

The weight of the center stone is 1.51 exact.


I think it is shallow angled because it has a very bright and brilliant look with loads of white flashes instead of colored ones, it's def not a deep angled diamond coz there are no dark spots or rings in it.


I kinda wish there was more fire, but at the same time it's a gorgeous diamond and my fiance worked really hard to get it :)

Hmm... is there a typo somewhere? 1mm difference is not small. 1.5c RB are typically around 7.4mm dia.


If it is a typo and a shallow angle stone too, seems like it has a very thick girdle to hide that much weight. These kind of stones should have a better spread not just about the same or smaller, for the same girdle thickness.
Yup! Accidentally made a typo my bad!!! sorry!

The measurements I have for it are 7.12 x 4.95 (carat weight is 1.51 RB). I think the spread is a tiny under, right?

Is there such a thing as a Brilliant Ideal Cut or a Fiery Ideal Cut??
Yes, Garry Holloway explains in this link

http://www.diamond-cut.com.au/23_bicfic.htm

The measurements above should be something like 7.12 x 7.20 etc or similar, so it is facing up small, I will see about calculating the depth if you can add the second diameter figure that is missing. Then El and I might be able to advise further.
 

Daisi2112

Shiny_Rock
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Messages
356
I dunno if this is good or bad, it may not be good, but those figures are the only figured provided on the certificate (it''s certified by GAL - Gemological Appraisal Laboratory).

Is my diamond not really a great diamond?
 

Stone-cold11

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Date: 3/13/2009 1:53:41 PM
Author: Daisi2112
I dunno if this is good or bad, it may not be good, but those figures are the only figured provided on the certificate (it's certified by GAL - Gemological Appraisal Laboratory).

Is my diamond not really a great diamond?
BIC, TIC and FIC are personal preference. TIC is a compromise between the other 2 that most people like.

From what you said, your stone seems to be an BIC but with a lot of hidden weight in a thick girdle, as BIC usually will have bigger face up dimensions compared to TIC, a 1.5c TIC having a 7.4mm diameter. So you are paying for weight that is not visible IMHO.
 

Lorelei

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Date: 3/13/2009 1:53:41 PM
Author: Daisi2112
I dunno if this is good or bad, it may not be good, but those figures are the only figured provided on the certificate (it's certified by GAL - Gemological Appraisal Laboratory).

Is my diamond not really a great diamond?
No, not at all! Also it is purely speculation without a lot more info, no way to tell without the full set of proportions what the personality or ' type' of your diamond might be - again as above it is only guessing, we have no way of knowing without the facts. No reason at all to suppose your diamond isn't beautiful even if it doesn't have the proportions we usually see here.

The thing is very few diamonds are ' perfect', you say your diamond is gorgeous and your fiance worked very hard to get it and to propose to you with it- that makes it priceless. If it is truly bothering you that the diamond isn't showing more fire, then maybe you could enjoy the diamond you have for now if the sale is a done deal, and maybe broach the subject of an upgrade for a future anniversary - if you think he would be amenable to changing it now and the diamond can be returned then if you feel it wouldn't hurt his feelings then you could bring it up perhaps, but think on this very carefully before doing so. If he is ok with it then fine.
 

coatimundi_org

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Unless it's really out of round, the diameter should range fairly close to the 7.12mm. I played around with different diameter combos, and I came up with an approximate 69% depth. That's very deep, and that is why it's not facing up like other rounds of similar weight. Can you exchange the stone? If you want a well cut, fiery diamond, you should have one.


eta: just read Lorelei's post above, and I agree that if you love it, and if you are out of the return period, then enjoy it. ...And upgrading is a great idea for future anniversaries-if you wanted to do that.
 

Stone-cold11

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Date: 3/13/2009 8:28:45 AM
Author: Daisi2112
I''m not sure if it is definitely too large a spread, I read that it''s like actually a millimeter under what a 1.5 RB should be. Could it still be shallow then? ( I don''t have the cut numbers unfortunately), maybe I am wrong. Could it possibly be a tad too deep?

I feel bad giving it back, my fiance got it from his father who is in the jewelry business. I really like the diamond, it''s gorgeous but I just always wondered why it would only produce fire under the lights at Barnes and Nobles.... otherwise it''s just really really bright.
Just re-read this... sticky problem... Get it recut?
 

Daisi2112

Shiny_Rock
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356
If I get it recut then it will be smaller


I really like the diamond, I was just curious as to why it is only fiery in a certain light. I do enjoy the bright white and white flashes :)

Thanks everyone for your help :)
 

Lorelei

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Date: 3/13/2009 2:50:44 PM
Author: Daisi2112
If I get it recut then it will be smaller


I really like the diamond, I was just curious as to why it is only fiery in a certain light. I do enjoy the bright white and white flashes :)

Thanks everyone for your help :)
Also recutting carries an element of risk. I am glad you do really like the diamond, in fact I have had a similar one which was very bright and brilliant but this rock didn''t ever show fire - however it was still beautiful and I loved it.
 

Daisi2112

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Date: 3/13/2009 2:55:19 PM
Author: Lorelei
Date: 3/13/2009 2:50:44 PM

Author: Daisi2112

If I get it recut then it will be smaller



I really like the diamond, I was just curious as to why it is only fiery in a certain light. I do enjoy the bright white and white flashes :)


Thanks everyone for your help :)
Also recutting carries an element of risk. I am glad you do really like the diamond, in fact I have had a similar one which was very bright and brilliant but this rock didn''t ever show fire - however it was still beautiful and I loved it.
Did you keep it?

Yes, the brilliance is beautiful. I just thought maybe something was really wrong and off about my diamond because it''s all brilliant white sparkles/flashes as opposed to a ton of fire.
 

Lorelei

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Date: 3/13/2009 3:02:41 PM
Author: Daisi2112

Date: 3/13/2009 2:55:19 PM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 3/13/2009 2:50:44 PM

Author: Daisi2112

If I get it recut then it will be smaller



I really like the diamond, I was just curious as to why it is only fiery in a certain light. I do enjoy the bright white and white flashes :)


Thanks everyone for your help :)
Also recutting carries an element of risk. I am glad you do really like the diamond, in fact I have had a similar one which was very bright and brilliant but this rock didn''t ever show fire - however it was still beautiful and I loved it.
Did you keep it?

Yes, the brilliance is beautiful. I just thought maybe something was really wrong and off about my diamond because it''s all brilliant white sparkles/flashes as opposed to a ton of fire.
I traded it in to get a much bigger rock
, but I wish I would have kept it, I would have only I wanted one which was much larger! I miss the diamond, it was extremely icy and brilliant, very beautiful and it sparkled like crazy!
 

Daisi2112

Shiny_Rock
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Is the GAL certificate that I have for this diamond as reputable as a GIA Certificate?
 

elle_chris

Ideal_Rock
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Never heard of them.

What do you want to know though? If you''re concered about the color and clarity matching the cert, take it to an independant appraiser for verification.
 

Daisi2112

Shiny_Rock
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Date: 3/13/2009 6:40:30 PM
Author: elle_chris
Never heard of them.


What do you want to know though? If you''re concered about the color and clarity matching the cert, take it to an independant appraiser for verification.

I am pretty positive of the color and clarity (i took it to an independent jeweler for those two things), but it''s just funny coz I don''t have the numbers (regarding what % is the crown, etc...) I thought certificates usually included all the numbers to prove the cut is good, or excellent.

I don''t have any doubt that my diamond is bad, it''s really gorgeous and sparkly. I just always wondered why I didn''t have or know the percentage of angles, etc....
 

purrfectpear

Ideal_Rock
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Messages
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GAL is a certification company in the diamond district of NYC. I sort of get the idea that they''re one of those companies that merchants use to avoid GIA or AGS? Here''s a sample of what your cert should look like, except this isn''t a round.

galcert.jpg
 

Daisi2112

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Date: 3/13/2009 7:47:15 PM
Author: purrfectpear
GAL is a certification company in the diamond district of NYC. I sort of get the idea that they''re one of those companies that merchants use to avoid GIA or AGS? Here''s a sample of what your cert should look like, except this isn''t a round.
Thank you purrfectpear!

Unfortunately, my certificate does not contain all that information.... it contains a picture of the cut (viewed from the top of the table), color, clarity, carat weight, all info for the smaller diamonds on the band, and the worth of the ring (oh yes, forgot, it also contains some numbers saying 7.12x4.95). That''s it!

Do they avoid GIA or AGS to be shady? Is my certificate reliable?
 
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