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What do you guys call the Ultimate Emerald Cut diamond?

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chrono

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This is related to this post:
Urgent: Shopping for Emerald Cut

Ana has suggested asking this question to all PS members because frankly I do not trust my eyes when buying diamonds since I am inexperienced. Anyone can show me a poorly cut stone, tell me it is a stunner and I am liable to believe them. I don''t want to be taken for a ride again so I hope to be given some advice to help me pick up a stunning EC.
 

Ann

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I giggled to myself when I read this post. I am on the hunt for a perfect radiant. It seems I keep "glancing" at emerald cuts when I'm in the stores. Maybe if I saw an ultimate emerald I might be persuaded to keep glancing that way.
 

Diamondsbybree

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Emerald cuts are my favorite. I get alot of questions about what shape my stone is from friends. The shape is not common in my area, but I LOVE them~!
 

Rhino

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The ultimate emerald cut diamond will have ultimate light performance. However I do not know of one gemologist who has studied emerald cuts carefully enough to give you a magic formula. There are many combo's that work and seemingly more that do not. I'm not sure you'll get a straight answer to your question if you're looking for numbers Chrono. Light performance is based on the delicate relationship between all the facets on the diamond so even if someone did give you what they thought was the "ideal" emerald cut there are a lot of measurements and angles they'd be leaving out because the Sarin's and OGI's most people use do not give the details of every single facet. Sorry if that is not the answer you're looking for but its honest.
 

valeria101

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----------------
On 10/25/2004 10:23:48 PM Rhino wrote:



The ultimate emerald cut diamond will have ultimate light performance. However [...] I'm not sure you'll get a straight answer to your question if you're looking for numbers

----------------



Worse still, there is no Iscope refference table for step cuts either.

Between the usual tools talked abut here, what could serve answe the Q better ? Not counting eyesigt alone since it is assumend away


My impression is that direct light conditions (=Brilliance Scope) is not really fair to emerald cuts since it does overstate their light return, but chances are I am wrong. How about the GA ?
 

chrono

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Rhino, I understand you answer and I'd like to thank you for giving some thought to my question.

Ana, that is precisely my question too. There is no Iscope picture for me to compare my EC to so really, what should I look for? And Bscope only works for direct light conditions. There must be some other tools to help an inexperienced person search for that perfect EC.
 

Rhino

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IMO the B'scope is the best tool available for this although it does not account for the issues of *contrast* which are primarily observed in diffuse light conditions. In diffuse light conditions the primary observance is that of darks/lights and what you want is a nice balance of both. A recent (new) posters avatar reminds me of what an off balance emerald cut looks like. Here is the graphic.







Note how dark the center looks.




In suffuse light we find 2 factors diminishing brilliance. It will either be leakage or too much head obstruction. An *ultimate* emerald cut will perform excellently in both direct and suffuse conditions. The market is open for a technology that can accurately reflect this phenomena and report it back to the observer. For now ... I have my trusty 20/20's. If you work with an experienced vendor/gemologist Chrono they will be able to ensure you get the appearance you're looking for.
 

Hest88

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First, go by the numbers as an initial way to pinpoint your EC, and only shop with a jeweler whose eyes you trust, then make sure they have a good evaluation policy, THEN send it to a trusted appraiser. That should cover
 

diagem

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If you keep in the range of the information you got, you will be safe...

remember the proportions and numbers is passed on to you?
as long as you are in these ranges, with the right cert.
you will be safe!!!!\


Good Luck, again
 

didiamond

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Chrono...I wish I could help you more technically but unfortunately I can't. What I can tell you is that I just got an emerald cut that I think really plays in the light. I get so much color and sparkle out of it! When I look into it all I see are the step cuts going down to the middle. When I was scrutinizing it, I was looking not just at the numbers but also with my eyes. I knew that there weren't any tools that could best tell me what this diamond could do. It just mesmerized me with how clear it was and how I could see each facet step down to the center.

Really I'd have to say that you should follow the guidelines of the numbers but you also have to see how it plays in different lighting conditions. In this situation, I think you're going to have to trust your eyes!
 

moremoremore

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I think that you should just start looking at tons of emerald cuts. That way, you can start to trust your eyes to help you out here. Use the gemappraisers chart as a guide and then go with your eyes!!
 

chrono

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Okay. I believe you all, I really do but my jeweler can't afford all the shipping costs of getting many ECs in for me to view.

What should I see in a top EC?
Should I see tons of steps?
Should it look bottomless?
Should I see dark and light lines? Or is that a no-no?

Can anybody post pics of really top ECs?
I've seen a few here that I think are gorgeous. Please tell me if you think I have bad taste/eyes.


KBerly's EC






Laozx's EC
 

diagem

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No, it actualy looks like a decent stone in the pictures.

You will always see dark and light facets in a e/c, depends what angle you look, it should minimize when you look straight at it if the angles are right...

but it does look like a decent + stone
 

valeria101

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Tell me this is WF


I wouldn't know what to improve on this fellow - it should be a bright stone with not much "contrast brilliance" (whatever Jonathan calls that)- at least straight top-down. But for a smaller stone like this bright is great - just one broad falsh from the stone turning on and off with movement. Once set, contrast should appear greater than in these pictures.

What is this going to be set in ?
 

chrono

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Oh, the above two EC's aren't mine.

The first is Kberly's from SC
The second is Laozx's from WF (I think)

I just wanted to look at lots of pictures of top ECs to "teach" my eyes to differentiate between poor, gd, vg and top of the line EC.

I'm getting one around 3/4ct. What should it look like?
So I shouldn't see lots of alternating dark and white lines from the top.
What should I see?

Please bear with me because I'm still very confused.
 

valeria101

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----------------
On 10/27/2004 1:46:06 PM chrono wrote:




So I shouldn't see lots of alternating dark and white lines from the top.
What should I see?

----------------


I can definitely tell you why I thought the WF pic looks good. I have no general rule for reading brilliance in random diamond pictures - it such a rule may exist.

You will see glitter (alternating dark and bright as you say) on any diamond as it moves ever so slightly. But pictures are static, bright white should mean that one that at least in some positions this stone 'lights up' all over. In theory though this is only wishful thinking: pictures are not taken in a standard environment. Besides, a reflective surface under the diamond when photographed makes everything 'light up' (could have been the case above, actually).


Conclusion? Pictures show shape for sure and anything else is left for guessing. Even with non-standrad lighting, Iscopes are a bit more 'readable' than regular pictures.

Can you really pick the 'winner' below ?
 

valeria101

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Pictures definitely show 'something', but between glare from the table and lens reflections it is not easy to tell much of anything.
These below don't seem to have been taken for the use of diamond optics nerds at all
. At the limit, a picture could become sort of a black & white version of the H&A viewer, but that's a loo...oong shot.

6545Ecsm.JPG
 

windowshopper

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valeria 101 please comment on each picture--what about the smaller shoulders?? black bars visible?
 

valeria101

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On 10/27/2004 9:05:54 PM windowshopper wrote:



please comment on each picture--what about the smaller shoulders?? black bars visible?----------------


What did I do !!!


No way - those pictures really don't say much about the diamonds, only shapes and some detail about how they were taken: #1 and #4 are 'whitened' by strong reflection off the table facet (=glare) not light return as understood around here. Pic #3 has some of this too... Then #2 is taken with the stone just slightly tilted E-W so the facets from left and right do not look the same because they catch light differently (tilt can be worked out from projections if one's that keen). Pic #4 has the stone tilted N-S - so the pavilion facets appear lighted differently. The last pic is also a tad tilted (most are - it is very hard to avoid this) and something reflects all over like clouds. The black patches around the last stone should also be due to this reflection.

This is about all I can tell from the pics aside shapes themselves


If you want to see what different pictures of the same diamond look like there is not much better at hand than a Gem Adviser simulation (or a serious course of professional photography), IMO.
 

chrono

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Okay, so then pictures will not do me any good.
So what do I look for in an EC (assuming I already know all the other information and they check out at 1A to 2A cuts)?

When viewing top down (static):
What should I see?
What should I not see?
I should not see lots of dark and light steps alternating? It should be briliant white?
Going back to an older post, Rhino said there should be a balance of light and dark steps. Too much dark in the middle isn't good.


When rotating the EC from side to side:
What should I see?
What should I not see?
This is where I should see the steps light up while other steps darken?

The more questions I ask, the more confused I get.
How can I tell if the EC has a lot of light leakage, medium, very little with my 20/20?
 

chrono

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Oh, I have 2 ECs to look at this afternoon: both are E VS1. One is 0.7ct and the other a 0.72ct in the 1.4:1 ratio which I wanted. I''m going to leave work early. Can anybody PLEASE tell me what a top notch EC should look to my ordinary eyes?
 

Hest88

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Oh Chrono, it''s so hard to describe what you should look for. It should have a balance of light and dark, that morphs mysteriously as you move it around. Think of zebra stripes, almost. In indirect light you should feel like you can drown in it''s depths. In directly light you should get wonderful flashes of light. It should be lively and bright.

You should be able to see through it, which will probably mean it''s too shallow.

It''s too bad you don''t have an Idealscope...

Anyway, it should speak to you---really, really speak to you.

Oh, and for more practical stuff---take your time when looking at inclusions and how visible they may be.
 

chrono

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Thanks Hest. I really needed that boost. You can tell I''m really excited yet nervous about the whole thing.

Wow! I just noticed that I''m an Ideal Rock although I really feel like a Rough Rock right now. A bunch of coal drowning in molten lava would be more precise.
 

Hest88

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Oops! I wrote "you should see through it" but I really meant you "should NOT"! If you can see through to the paper as if it were through a window then you definitely have a yucky one!
 

valeria101

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I don't think I can describe better a receipe of "perfect EC" beyond what you summed up from this thread. Looking at stones is much easier than trying to explain what you see. (surprise, surprise :) ) Obviously one never gets to look at just "size" without shape and brilliance - it's all one package after all.

After all this it is probably clear just how useful that H&A pattern is - at least in those rounds one has something well definined to look for. If there is an equivalent for Ecs, that would take a bit of work to find out. This has not been done.

Why not take some known darlings (of any size, just selected for cut and describe appropriately) for refference and go for it ?
 

chrono

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Hest,
I thought the window/paper test is only for rounds?

Hi Katbadness! Thanks, and I''m glad to see you are done with the greenhouses and can spend more time here.
 

chrono

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Ana, are you mad at me? Please don''t be. I know from your previous post that even pictures are not the right way to gauge the look of "THE" EC.
I did print out some pictures and Iscopes of a few really nice ECs as a reference for this afternoon. Wish me luck.
 

Hest88

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Date: 10/28/2004 1:43:28 PM
Author: Chrono
Hest,
I thought the window/paper test is only for rounds?

Hi Katbadness! Thanks, and I''m glad to see you are done with the greenhouses and can spend more time here.
There''s definitely more of a degree of transparency with ECs, especially along the sides, but the facets should still mask what''s underneath.

Oh, and note the effect of the table, to see how you feel about larger vs. smaller tables.

And don''t forget to be a bit dispassionate and observe white light vs. colored light and quantity of light return.

Of course, if you fall madly in love with one of them, then all this advice should be tossed out the window!
 
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