Urgent: Shopping for Emerald Cut

[chrono]

I am going to look at a few Emerald Cut diamonds early next week. What should I look for? I've read Oldminer's AGA cut class and will follow that as a guide. However, I understand that there are a few other unstated rules. Please help me sort through what will most probably yield a high optical performer. I'm guessing that this vendor probably doesn't have a Sarin nor a IScope (which I don't have because it sounds like it is very difficult to use, i.e, you need to have the correct lighting condition).

I want an EC with tons of fire, above average brilliance and scintillation.

Depth
Around 60% to 65% so that the diamond will have a better spread, right?

Table
Also around 60% to 65% but at the same time 10% less than the depth so that it will have a higher crown height for better optics, right? Will this increase the probability of getting an EC with more fire than brilliance?
I was told that if the table is larger than the depth, the EC will look glassy.
Therefore, if the table is smaller than the depth, what will the EC look like?

Polish & Symmetry
I've seen so many RBs have ID/EX for both yet they seem so rare in fancy cut diamonds. How hard should I push for this? Is VG good enough? How about Good? At what point does this become unacceptable?

Girdle
For ECs, avoid the extremely thin and extremely thick. I should aim for medium. Is thin okay?

Colour
I currently have a G but want something a little icier. I presume F should be plenty icy for a EC. Will most people be able to tell the difference between an E and F side by side FACE UP in an EC?

Clarity
What are my chances of getting an eye clean VS2? Should I open my options to include a VS1?

I'm sure I'll think up of more questions. I'm getting a little nervous because buying fancy diamonds is so difficult and I have to look at a few next week.

 

[windowshopper]

hi
you didnt say what size you are looking for. I personally think that depending on size some factors are a little fluid. Like in a small carat stone you may want a a little shallower to get optimal spread. Perhaps I am wrong but I think size is factors in specs and how the specs affect the appearance.

 

[valeria101]

About AGA... there is a recent thread by david Atlas you may find interesting LINK.

Do you think it is worth asking WF if they would describe This or this as 'eye clean" ?

There definitely is method to the apparent madness of allowing SI step cuts in their Expert Selection. There are a few such trespassers at GoodOldGold too.

And one more: diamonds are the most transparent of crystals (menaing they let the widest range of wavelengths through). A finely polished blade of colorless diamond literally 'dissapears' from view because of this.

Faceted diamonds do not show this amazing property very well, but small, spready step cuts come close

 

[diagem]

I dont think that an e/c diamond should be to spread...

It takes away from the beauty of the gem as an art piece.


Gem

 

[chrono]

I am looking for a 0.7ct to 0.8ct emerald cut because I want to re-use an existing setting that is very unique.

Ana,
"And one more: diamonds are the most transparent of crystals (menaing they let the widest range of wavelengths through). A finely polished blade of colorless diamond literally 'dissapears' from view because of this. Faceted diamonds do not show this amazing property very well, but small, spready step cuts come close"
Can you please explain the above statement? I'm sorry but I don't think I understand it. Do I want a diamond with spready step cuts that shows this disappearing quality or just the opposite?

I don't think it should have too much spread, right? Although ECs are not known as big sparklers, I want one that is impressive and has huge flashes of fire, so what properties should I aim for?

No one has answered Questions #1 through #4.

Please help because I don't have many days left before I shop for them in person. TIA

 

[diagem]

You sound like you are aiming at a well made e/c diamond.
Since you understand that e/c are not the flashiest diamonds around, it should be a well cut gem.

In my opinion a well made e/c diamond should consist of a:

65 - 69% total Depth.
59 - 65% table
But more importantly in my oppinion is the symmetry of any step cut shape of diamond. (step cut faceting arangements on a DIAMOND is considered a harder task than brilliant faceting arrangements )

Because of the long and narrow stretches of the facets, symmetry is a serious part of the attractivness of an e/c diamond

The spreadier the e/c the less of the actuall faceting you will notice, a very important factor in my oppinion.

 

[chrono]

Yes, I want a very well cut EC.

Please tell me if this statement is mostly true or mostly incorrect:
If the table is larger than the depth (ex. 65% T, 60% D), you will get more brilliance.
If the table is smaller than the depth (ex. 60% T, 65% D), you will get more dispersion.

Because of the step cut, I should aim for at least VG or Ex symmetry?

 

[valeria101]

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On 10/22/2004 10:22:50 AM chrono wrote:



Ana,

Can you please explain the above statement?

----------------

Sorry, that was a missplaced joke. I was trying to say that small, shallow step cuts are really watery looking instead of brilliant. For some reason, smaller ECs seem to be cut with huge tables even more often than larger ones - I would really stay away from those if brilliance matters.

Just my 0.2, of course.

As far as I know, the receipe with table <> depth sound dangerous - I would much rather stare into a picture (Iscope or no Iscope) than look at numbers like that. For what I know, a diamond with a large table can have high dispersion - perhaps lots of facets on the crown do the same, but this is not the only way and not a guarantee of 'fire'.

Step cuts are my favorite, but I could not figure out how to guess light return for them based on AGA or HCA-style numbers. This, because the angle of each 'step' counts and cannot be nearly determined from table, depth and crown height alone.

As Diagem says, step cuts are harder to crack

 

[Hest88]

Don't forget that crown height is crucial. You definitely don't want it too shallow.

 

[diagem]

I dont know about this statement, but I do know that as long as the tot. depth of a diamond deepens, with the correct crown and pavilion angles the table becomes smaller in percentages.

As far as the symmetry is concerned, yes in my oppinion you should make sure you have at least a very good symetry to be in the ownership of a well made emerald cut diamond.

 

[valeria101]

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On 10/22/2004 12:45:18 PM diagem wrote:



as long as the tot. depth of a diamond deepens, with the correct crown and pavilion angles the table becomes smaller in percentages.
----------------

May I take this a bit further? There are so few comments on step cuts around here...


What you say is true, but there seems to be more to the story if you are not talking about a square with pointed culet. It does not help that the table % is calculated across the width - so there is no difference in the number assigned to a square and a long EC, while those angles go all over the place as proportions change.

In theory, to keep angles the same on both crossections, you need the culet keel to be exactly as long as the difference between the EC's length and width.

But these things make less sense - I would say - for a step cut than a (modified or not) brilliant. Think of what difference minor facets make in a RBC, and their index cannot vary nearly as much as that of step facets. Even more so for the all important lower girdles. If a step on one EC's pavilion lights up of creates a window depends too much on the facet's index for the average pavilion angle to be useful, IMO. Not to mention that the illusion of depth (false perspective) these facets create is indeed strongly dependent of very slight index variations.

Just my quasi educated opinion. I would love to hear more of the sort

 

[chrono]

This sounds more complicated than ever: this is why I despair of ever getting an excellent performing EC. Let's cut to the chase and spell it out.

1. Use the AGA chart as a guide because nothing is guaranteed.
2. It sounds like I really need an IScope but I might need the special light that comes with it since I'm viewing it in the store with their hot spot lights.

Is there anything else I need to look for/know in order to increase my chances of getting a drop dead gorgeous EC?

With so little personal diamond knowledge, I'm thinking of using an appraisor. The closest one to me is Oldminer in Philly but I want to sit down with the appraisor and talk about the diamond, view it together and discuss it so I would prefer one that isn't too far away. Any idea where to look for an appraisor that is a whole lot closer to me? There's only 2 listed for the state of PA.

 

[diagem]

You dont need any tools, they will confuse the hell out of you more...

You need to walk in a reputable jewelry store and shop around until you come across the e/c that will take your breath away, Believe me it will happen.

No tool can tell you if your e/c is cut properly, no tool whats so ever...

Your eyes are the best judgement, just make sure you purchase from a thrusty source with a thrusty certificate
like GIA, AGS, EGL, IGI, HRD.....

Make sure you stay in the bounderies of the right proportions. and if you have more questions about proportions of e/c, ask and ill do my best to guide you in the right direction.

 

[chrono]

I keep reading about how my eyes will choose for me but really what happens when:

1. Every vendor doesn't have a large inventory of ECs so I have to remember every stone's performance. This is going to be a major PITA.
2. I'm just the ordinary Joe so how do I know which one is the "wow"? At this point, every stone looks really good to me.
3. To save myself (and the vendor), I need to cull the poorer performing stones. How do I do that?

Case in point:
I shopped like this for my current EC. It wowed me. After educating myself now, I've discovered it isn't well cut and has a glassy appearance which means it has a lot of light leakage. And to think I loved this glassy look for so many years? It's because I don't know what a top performing EC should look like. So how will I choose the right one if even a poorly cut stone impresses me?

 

[diagem]

Tastes changes with the years, what you loved before and dont today doesnt make it not a waw for someone else.

Like i said, go to a thrusty jewelry that has a big inventory and high standarts, thats where you know you wont go wrong.

No tool will let you know if your e/c is cut right or wrong.
only a cert will let you know if your in the right parameters or outside of them...

and again thrust your taste and eyes.

 

[chrono]

When it comes to fancy shapes, vendors typically do not stock large inventories and it will cost them a lot of money to call in a lot of stones so I really cannot view that many ECs side by side.
I also do not trust my eyes since I am inexperienced. Anyone can show me a poorly cut stone, tell me it is a stunner and I am liable to believe them. I don't want to be taken for a ride again.

 

[valeria101]

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On 10/25/2004 12:44:46 PM chrono wrote:



I also do not trust my eyes since I am inexperienced. Anyone can show me a poorly cut stone, tell me it is a stunner and I am liable to believe them. I don't want to be taken for a ride again.

----------------

Finding one piece that will stand comparison with almost any other and never let you change your mind about it

... that's the taughest call !

Maybe just start a new thread about "what do you guys call the ultimate emerald cut diamond". Can't hurt.

 

[chrono]

Thanks Ana. I'll do just that.

 

[chrono]

It seems like nobody here likes or knows how to buy top performing emerald cut diamonds from the obvious lack of response here. This is the biggest reason why I've not bought my diamond as yet. I mean, if no one seems to know, how on earth will I know how to buy one?

 

[diagem]

from what i read, The answer was posted.

You sound to insecure, ask and i'll answer.

The problem, you ought to know WHAT to ask.

 

[klayman]

Chrono,
I also had this same problem when I bought my EC. There seemed to be a good number of responses, but everyone had a different idea of what was "ideal" to them. I finally just went and put a few together and let my eyes do the choosing. I know this doesn;t really help you, but here are the specs on the stone I ended up with.

Shape and Cutting Style Emerald Cut
Measurements 7.58 x 6.05 x 3.98
Weight 1.59 carat
Proportions
Depth 65.8%
Table 76%
Girdle Medium to Slightly Thick
Culet None
Clarity Grade VVS1
Color Grade F
Polish Very Good
Symmetry Good
Fluorescence Faint
Comments None

I finally purchased this stone after sending all of the information to 2 different jewelers in my home town. They looked objectively and quoted me a price range that this particular stone fell into. That made me feel better about the "deal" and then my eyes made the final decision

 

[chrono]

Yes, I am insecure. The problem is I don't know what to ask, which is why my question now is more general. How do I go about buying a top performing emerald cut diamond?

 

[diagem]

Again,

Lenght to width ratio: 1;1.35
Total depth: 63-68 %
Table 60-68%
in my oppinion build up crown (so you can visualize the step facets on the crown

I prefer the pavilion corners polished all the way to the culet (some reach the step junction before the culet)

and the corner breaks should be visible when a prong is set over them (i mean large corners)

Very good to excelent symetry
good and better polish

girdle should be no ranges (thin or medum not both)

good luck,

and keep this information,

 

[Hest88]

I'd also add that you want the crown to be well over 10%. Ideally, you'd have a stone with table and pav in the low to mid 60s, with the depth greater than the table.

L/W, though, tends to be personal preference. I like fatter ECs--around 1.35--but I know some people like skinner ones.

 

[diagem]

hest88,

I didnt understand what you mean and i am worried you may confuse more, please explain better what you mean with the 10% crown

 

[chrono]

She meant to get a Sarin report where I can see the meaured crown height and it should be at least 10% or more. Right, Hest?

 

[valeria101]

----------------
On 10/26/2004 8:22:51 AM chrono wrote:

She meant to get a Sarin report where I can see the meaured crown height and it should be at least 10% or more. Right, Hest?----------------

This should mean about the same as "built up crown" - only by numbers.

What to do if I happen to like them long - around 2:1 L/W instead of the often cited 1.3-1.5 ?

 

[chrono]

I don't think L/W plays any part in pricing or the beauty of the stone (or so I've read). I also happen to like the 1.3 to 1.4:1 ratio.

 

[diagem]

You are right, as far as the consumer it doent play a role in the price. but dont forget, you can see the build up crown with your eyes, no need for a loupe.

if you dont see it, it means its not build up...

 

[Hest88]

Yes, Chrono, that's what I meant!