What are your thoughts on how government is handling COVID-19

[MakingTheGrade]

Haha I don’t know how many people here are sci-fi nerds but in The Expanse they talk about being “on basic”. I could see a mod where after 18 you could go “on basic” and be assigned to a dorm style apartment with roommates and get government issue groceries and clothes with basic utilities and healthcare taken care of (think military barrack life). But anything extra you’d have to continue on with some sort of vocation and job if you wanted more than “basic” living. Sure some people would just stay in basic and live simply but I’d bet the vast majority of people would want to qualify to work and earn more to have more choice in life and just experience more things (look how many people are so restless on quarantine. Spending all day on the couch really isn’t what most people want to be doing). Want to get a dog? Play more video games? Get a drink? Travel? All good reasons to do more than Basic.

As science gets better and we can produce more for less, it doesn’t make a lot of sense that we’d continue a state where people can die of starvation or lack of housing and healthcare. I also think so much of mental health burdens would be eased knowing that if you became unemployed or hit a huge unexpected crisis you wouldn’t be homeless or unable to feed yourself or your family.

 

[1ofakind]

It is not implausible that some would choose to work less to retain benefits. It’s an incentive built into the system. A huge part of the problem is that most benefit programs are not phased out gradually as income increases but either they qualify or not.

I had the privilege of meeting a store cashier when I was buying 100 boxes of oatmeal for the supplemental food program I work with. Well that’s an unusual purchase (they were all on clearance, a better price we can usually get) and the cashier joked that I must really like oatmeal. I told her what it is for, the program is well known in our community. She said her kids used to receive the supplemental meals last year but not this year and they really miss it. They have 7 kids and earned $150 over the income line to qualify for free/reduced lunches (We use this list to enroll students in the program). She remarked that they wouldn’t let that happen again. I get it...it wasn’t worth it. They lost a lot more than $150 in needed benefits. They’d have to earn several thousand more to make up the difference in what they lost. They aren’t stupid, they see how the math works.

I took her name and the name of her kids, schools etc. Because we are not a government program we can use some discretion, check out their situation and in the end we put her kids back on the supplemental meal program. I hope it helped a little. What would have helped more is if they had only lost 50% of their increase In benefits. Now thats an incentive to keep striving forward without being punished for not making it.

 

[voce]

In an ideal world we could provide for everyone. But I just fear that the poor would overpopulate, and there's just not enough of the middle-class, and, after a certain population number, even the rich to keep everyone well off and comfortable. I'm afraid of what will happen if there's not enough economic differentiation to make poor people realize that the more kids they have the worse off everyone will be. My point is that in a world of finite resources (numerator in a fraction), it totally depends on the number of people those finite resources have to support (denominator in a fraction) whether we can guarantee a decent basic living for everyone. It totally depends on how much we can produce and how many we can support. Just realize that we cannot indefinitely support everyone this way from now until forever. We need to keep enough incentive for people to educate themselves and stop overpopulating the Earth. Just like with climate change, there is objectively a tipping point somewhere where the system will crash. I don't know exactly where that is, but we shouldn't let people believe there can be infinite welfare, because in reality there's not. If poverty were such an easy problem to solve, it wouldn't still be around!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

She said her kids used to receive the supplemental meals last year but not this year and they really miss it. They have 7 kids and earned $150 over the income line to qualify for free/reduced lunches (We use this list to enroll students in the program). She remarked that they wouldn’t let that happen again. I get it...it wasn’t worth it.

There is a concept originated by a now deceased UK politician called a poverty or welfare trap. This lady and family are examples.
The sliding scale needs to anticipate these limitations and provide incentives not what that schenme does

 

[arkieb1]

$5 bet?

I think it depends if they get the numbers of infection under control, if they get it down to zero quickly like in a month I agree with you, if they cannot track and trace the community spread (as in the case of NSW at the moment) and the numbers continue to slowly rise then it will be a long slower process.

Are we betting when our boarders reopen or when people can go back to work again or both? I'm not entirely sure "betting" is even appropriate we are lucky we are basically a large Island and we should be grateful every day that we do not live in Europe, or for that matter, somewhere like New York where we would have no control on what is currently happening to them there.

 

[BMI]

Also for those who think there shouldn’t be welfare or basic income, here’s a rather sobering take on things:

Thanks for posting this video @MakingTheGrade.
It was very interesting........ definitely sobering and then some!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I think it depends if they get the numbers of infection under control, if they get it down to zero quickly like in a month I agree with you, if they cannot track and trace the community spread (as in the case of NSW at the moment) and the numbers continue to slowly rise then it will be a long slower process.

Are we betting when our boarders reopen or when people can go back to work again or both? I'm not entirely sure "betting" is even appropriate we are lucky we are basically a large Island and we should be grateful every day that we do not live in Europe, or for that matter, somewhere like New York where we would have no control on what is currently happening to them there.

When they first relax restrictions - Before mid July - Australia as of 6 hours ago

 

[arkieb1]

@Garry H (Cut Nut) - our Premier (QLD) said today that they could be enforcing boarder restrictions here for up to 6 months so your definition of "restrictions" and mine might be entirely different.... my mother btw was airlifted to St Vincents in Sydney by the RFDS (they live in remote rural NSW) in critical condition yesterday so I have the issue if I currently leave my state and then try to get back here again especially if I need to bring one or the other parent back with me that is not from here.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

@Garry H (Cut Nut) - our Premier (QLD) said today that they could be enforcing boarder restrictions here for up to 6 months so your definition of "restrictions" and mine might be entirely different....

OK, removing border restrictions

 

[redwood66]

Is it possible that the reason they didn't put a cap on it is because so many who are now unemployed also now have additional health care premiums that they will have to shoulder 100% on their own, instead of sharing the costs with their employers? This was the position DH and I found ourselves in at the beginning of the year, when he was laid off. Not only did we have our usual bills - we had a couple thousand dollars in health insurance premiums every single month additionally, and that's for only two of us. Just a thought.

ETA: There are a lot of economists who track health care spending that are predicting that individuals and families who get COVID-19 - which, over time, will be most of us - and who require hospitalization will have devastating medical bills to pay afterward, even if they have reasonably good health insurance coverage. Perhaps policymakers are anticipating that as well? They may also be hoping that people will feel like they can buy things online, to help keep at least some sectors of online retail and their suppliers going. Again, just thoughts.....

This is definitely possible but IMO not the way to go about it. If covering medical and insurance expenses related to Covid were the goal then provide a portion of the relief funds to go to those things for those affected, not provide overpayment to an unknown number of people all across the country who may or may not have medical/insurance issues.

 

[MakingTheGrade]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/amid-virus-outbreak-secret-service-signed-contract-to-rent-golf-carts-at-home-of-trump-club/2020/04/01/86d249fe-7449-11ea-85cb-8670579b863d_story.html?outputType=amp

Since when is golf an “essential” business? We can’t get PPE cause reasons, but have spare funds for golf carts ...great.

 

[JPie]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/amid-virus-outbreak-secret-service-signed-contract-to-rent-golf-carts-at-home-of-trump-club/2020/04/01/86d249fe-7449-11ea-85cb-8670579b863d_story.html?outputType=amp

Since when is golf an “essential” business?

Is it bad that I think we’re better off if he stays on the golf course instead of having one of his daily rallies with the pillow guy?

 

[redwood66]

True, my point was people were quitting their jobs, to get unemployment in Texas you can't quit your job.

But she didn't say quitting, she said they were trying to figure out how to get laid off so they could collect more $.

 

[1ofakind]

This is definitely possible but IMO not the way to go about it. If covering medical and insurance expenses related to Covid were the goal then provide a portion of the relief funds to go to those things for those affected, not provide overpayment to an unknown number of people all across the country who may or may not have medical/insurance issues.

Even if they do have extra insurance/medical expenses there is no assurance the extra monthly payments will be put towards those costs. I’d also have rather seen a separate benefit for those who end up needing it to cover those expenses.

 

[arkieb1]

OK, removing border restrictions

I guess it helps that the NSW government announced it will lift the tough stay at home restrictions in 90 days..... which is three months not two.

I have school aged kids our school emailed us that they intend to do online classes the first two weeks after Easter holidays and then on a week to week basis, so they possibly suggest children will be sent back to school and classes in less than 90 days time.

 

[1ofakind]

But she didn't say quitting, she said they were trying to figure out how to get laid off so they could collect more $.

Thank you for actually reading, lol.

 

[Calliecake]

It’s being reported that Trump is goIng to be issuing new recommendations on face masks.

Everyone in China has been wearing face masks for months.

 

[yssie]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/amid-virus-outbreak-secret-service-signed-contract-to-rent-golf-carts-at-home-of-trump-club/2020/04/01/86d249fe-7449-11ea-85cb-8670579b863d_story.html?outputType=amp

Since when is golf an “essential” business? We can’t get PPE cause reasons, but have spare funds for golf carts ...great.

His supporters will find a way to either rationalise and embrace or excuse and ignore absolutely anything this buffoon might do. He is truly both inimitable and untouchable.

 

[yssie]

It’s being reported that Trump is goIng to be issuing new recommendations on face masks.

Everyone in China has been wearing face masks for months.

The CDC's recommendations thus far have defied common sense - of course masks help everyone, not just healthcare workers and other essential services providers, we all know the edicts thus far have been driven by supply shortages not best practices - nice that they're - maybe? - finally acknowledging that presenting logic to their audience is valuable

 

[voce]

Personally I think it more likely we’d move to having 3 day work weeks to spread “jobs” around if need be, but the point is legitimate. “Retraining” assumes there’s always “new and better” jobs which is not an inherent truth of reality.

This will probably be controversial, but it's not that I believe there is or will be new and better jobs. I see job availability as another finite resource, and the only way people will become better off is if we can avoid population growth. I see that as the main problem for India's job shortage, where college educated people have to interview for hundreds of jobs just too get one offer, since for any job opening not requiring a highly specialized skill there's thousands who apply.

Education is necessary in order to change the mindset and thus the behavior of the poor, and indirectly manage population growth.

Edited to include this article.

The Behavioral Aspects of Poverty | Brookings

Article by Isabel V. Sawhill, The Public Interest (Fall 2003)

www.brookings.edu

 

[Dancing Fire]

another non sequitur. with gratuitous smack at Biden.

You mean like what the left is doing to Trump?.

 

[Dancing Fire]

You 'hear' from people on Section 8 housing? My brother has been the very lucky recipient of Section 8 housing and he's mentally ill and can't work, or walk due to 2 strokes, I don't know who you hear from but you need to back that statement up with facts because it sounds totally implausible. Also to get Section 8 housing takes YEARS and years, it's not a drop in but you must know that right?

He is a different case of course we must take good care of the mentally ill. I'm talking about those with able bodys who doesn't wanna work and advantage of the system.

 

[Dancing Fire]

I support the model of Nordic and western European countries.

Yeah, that model is working very well in France. They wanna Retire at 50?. I was there last yr saw them protesting.

 

[MaisOuiMadame]

In brighter news, Germany seems to be doing great, rapidly expanding icus beds. Go Merkel. I’m jealous.

The upside of having a a very non -glamourous, matter of fact, highly intelligent physicist as head of state....

 

[MaisOuiMadame]

My good friend who's a CEO in a medicine tech company created a consortium of different firms in tech, their part delivery counterparts, public health adinistration, mechanics etc etc and they're positive that they can up their numbers from producing 100 ventilators / month by themselves to 1000 ventilators /week starting next week. They'll produce at cost.

I cried when she told me. PLEASE SEND DUST to France!!

 

[House Cat]

The numbers are being calculated for unemployment payouts in our state and anyone earning <$50,000 will actually be much better off unemployed right now. Not a bad deal. Word is spreading fast. The county unemployment office is not only flooded with people who are actually unemployed but by those trying to figure out how to get laid off even if they are deemed 'essential.'
Those who think we are not taking care of people are just plain wrong.

What state is that? I’d be interested to look up their unemployment compensation rate. Here in california the maximum pay out rate is $1800 per month. Hardly a $50,000 per year salary.

I poked around at a few other states. They all seemed comparable. Even New York had a rate of $2000 per month and their cost of living is incredibly high

 

[missy]

My good friend who's a CEO in a medicine tech company created a consortium of different firms in tech, their part delivery counterparts, public health adinistration, mechanics etc etc and they're positive that they can up their numbers from producing 100 ventilators / month by themselves to 1000 ventilators /week starting next week. They'll produce at cost.

I cried when she told me. PLEASE SEND DUST to France!!

Sending bucketloads of *****DUST*****!!!!

 

[Asscherhalo_lover]

What state is that? I’d be interested to look up their unemployment compensation rate. Here in california the maximum pay out rate is $1800 per month. Hardly a $50,000 per year salary.

I poked around at a few other states. They all seemed comparable. Even New York had a rate of $2000 per month and their cost of living is incredibly high

Correct, max my husband will get from NY is $504 per week. The extra $600 will help so much.

 

[OoohShiny]

China's all-seeing, all-knowing surveillance system and how it is being used right now:

How China's using surveillance to fight coronavirus

China is using its high tech system to tackle the outbreak, but is the state interference justified?

www.bbc.co.uk

And some graphs showing potential lockdowns / restrictions and their possible effects on ICU bed demand: