What are your thoughts on how government is handling COVID-19

[Dancing Fire]

Non sequitur and gratuitous attack.. smh. and Hillary ran in 16.

Yes I meant 2016. I have dementia like J. Biden.

 

[1ofakind]

@1ofakind - my advise to you is to give it up. They'll pick you apart and then report you for name calling if you continue to debate. I found that it's not worth the time and energy. I have learned to keep my opinions close to my heart and not discuss any politics on this forum. Just sayin!!

I haven’t called anyone a name. I can not say the same is true the other way around. I have to laugh at being called a Trump apologists though. People see what they want I guess.

Before you spread misinformation a POINTER to FACTS is needed to support the above statement. Otherwise I call this as FALSE.

And to "not taking care of people" Trump is spouting useful information now after I think it was Tucker carlson who convinced him this was a real threat, not physicians, not his team, but another fox jerk. Altho I thank Tucker! who knows where we would be without hs flight to Florida.

I specified this is what is happening in our state. I can not provide internal HR documents or personnel information. I am sure you understand that. The state website has temporarily taken down their online calculator and other tables are out of date because this is all new calclulations. I can give you the calculations we ran for our son who works full time, based on info provided by his HR department. No, I will not Be able to provide a copy of the email from his employer. If there are layoffs it would be a lagging affect so while he is fine now it may still happen even after other things start to get back to normal. Right now he earns $850 biweekly (Net-he has a few things taken out like insurance and 401K). No I can not send you a copy of his paystub to support that. Under the current unemployment he would receive $1000 weekly. I could take a pic of the sticky note where I did the simple math...would that suffice? I am glad he is able to work full time and a layoff for him would likely be temporary. It would be very hard for him to get another job as good as this one. He is autistic and doing very well in his current role.
I don’t have any evidence to prove to you that he is autistic, may eventually be laid off or that he is doing well in his current position.

I did just contact my niece as she is in a different state. She confirmed that she will be getting more in emergency unemployment benefits than what she was previously earning. Her employer was trying to give everyone some hours but as soon as that was passed they laid off all but a few because it was better for the employees. She declined to talk to you to verify that.
I am not aware of any conversations between Tucker Carlson and Trump regarding taking care of people via unemployment benefits.

 

[1ofakind]

As one Dem. Prez once said...If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen !. I knew 1ofakind was gonna get skinned alive by the liberals...

Eh, I‘m a glutton for punishment I guess. Besides, I’m not the one putting people on ignore and then still talking about them. Gosh, I must have really got under her skin....imagine what a real Trump apologist could accomplish!

 

[missy]

Just a mini vent and I think this is the right thread in which to share it.

This whole thing is heartbreaking beyond words. I am so sick of the politicians, CEOs and business leaders who for decades sought to destroy medicine and adhere to the strict ‘business model’ by reducing funding, staff, equipment and training etc. Those same politicians who now gratuitously praise those are providing care under the most difficult of circumstances with dwindling and inadequate supplies at risk to their own lives as well as those of their families. Hypocrisy to the max. I am sick to my stomach.

And sick of the blame game. I wish Trump and others like him would silence themselves. We now have to focus on what to do to save lives. The lives of those at the front lines and the lives of the patients our brave healthcare workers are trying to save.

We need PPEs and ventilators and more help. Not enough doctors/nurses and not enough equipment to keep them safe and not enough care and equipment to help those who are ill survive. This crisis is far from peaking and there will only be much more heartache and suffering and loss of life.

Please make production of these items a “wartime” imperative.
And please, shut it down and STAY AT HOME.

 

[redwood66]

Before you spread misinformation a POINTER to FACTS is needed to support the above statement. Otherwise I call this as FALSE.

Because the Covid Relief package is adding $600 per week to any unemployment claim. Max in Idaho is $405 per week plus the $600 is more than many make a week working. They can do this until July 31, and maybe longer if another package is signed.

This is why I am angry at Congress for not making it only 100% of a person's salary.

Are you newly eligible for unemployment insurance? Here's what to know

Here's how the new Pandemic Unemployment Assistance program expands eligibility and calculates weekly benefits for self-employed, freelance and gig workers.

www.cnbc.com

 

[MakingTheGrade]

In brighter news, Germany seems to be doing great, rapidly expanding icus beds. Go Merkel. I’m jealous.

 

[OboeGal]

Dr. Garry’s predictions for Australia:

I predict we will have another rough month and then we will see light at the end of the tunnel and within two or 3 months we will reach the relaxing stage.

• We are flat lining in the infection rates at about 300 new cases a day. That means more and more people are still catching the virus. But we will not be like Spain and Italy. Victoria has only 26 people in hospital and 6 in ICU’s with about 600 respirators.
• Testing testing testing – we are viral throat or nose swab testing at the highest rates in the world: more than 250,000 so far.
• The largest group of people getting infected are doctors nurses and frontline people. But many will be coming out after being mildly ill and have some immunity which means when they go back to work they cannot infect others or have little or no chance of being reinfected.
• They are now mass producing millions of cheap antibody or antigen tests. Anyone can prick their finger and do like a pregnancy test (someone will have to do it for me because I faint). Test takes 15 minutes. The test ID’s if you are late stage or have had Covid-19 (has some other false positives from other flu/colds).
• When an area like say Prahran has high known incidence they can do door to door compulsory testing and when they ID someone in a family or work group who then they do the viral throat swab test and lock that family down if anyone else is confirmed.
• This means we can get under 1.0 – where one person infects one other person, not 2.2 which results in exponential spreading.
• When we to say 0.5 it is likely the government will have the needed systems in place to allow almost social and economic normality as has happened in Korea.
• I predict we will have another rough month and then we will see light at the end of the tunnel and within two or 3 months we will reach the relaxing stage.

This will only be the case if better tests become widely available. Current tests are very accurate with positive results, but only 50-75% accurate for negative results. This has resulted in a LOT of exposures. With current tests, negative results can only be trusted with a lack of symptoms AND two consecutive negatives, swabbed very carefully.

 

[OreoRosies86]

I’m having flashbacks of a PS era gone by... are some old familiar characters coming out to play?

 

[OboeGal]

Trump banned chinese flights in late Jan. but of course the left called him a racist.

CC, If people don't return to work within the next 2 months there will a lot of murders in our country. People will robb and kill for food.

Not if those of us who can afford to are willing to help them out. Which is what a society is supposed to do.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Because the Covid Relief package is adding $600 per week to any unemployment claim. Max in Idaho is $405 per week plus the $600 is more than many make a week working. They can do this until July 31, and maybe longer if another package is signed.

Yup, why work when you can make more money staying home.

 

[OboeGal]

Because the Covid Relief package is adding $600 per week to any unemployment claim. Max in Idaho is $405 per week plus the $600 is more than many make a week working. They can do this until July 31, and maybe longer if another package is signed.

This is why I am angry at Congress for not making it only 100% of a person's salary.

Are you newly eligible for unemployment insurance? Here's what to know

Here's how the new Pandemic Unemployment Assistance program expands eligibility and calculates weekly benefits for self-employed, freelance and gig workers.

www.cnbc.com

Is it possible that the reason they didn't put a cap on it is because so many who are now unemployed also now have additional health care premiums that they will have to shoulder 100% on their own, instead of sharing the costs with their employers? This was the position DH and I found ourselves in at the beginning of the year, when he was laid off. Not only did we have our usual bills - we had a couple thousand dollars in health insurance premiums every single month additionally, and that's for only two of us. Just a thought.

ETA: There are a lot of economists who track health care spending that are predicting that individuals and families who get COVID-19 - which, over time, will be most of us - and who require hospitalization will have devastating medical bills to pay afterward, even if they have reasonably good health insurance coverage. Perhaps policymakers are anticipating that as well? They may also be hoping that people will feel like they can buy things online, to help keep at least some sectors of online retail and their suppliers going. Again, just thoughts.....

 

[Dancing Fire]

Not if those of us who can afford to are willing to help them out. Which is what a society is supposed to do.

Agree, the rich should help the poor through tuff times, but if the rich kept helping the poor the poor will remain poor forever.

 

[OboeGal]

Agree, the rich should help the poor through tuff times, but if the rich kept helping the poor the poor will remain poor forever.

Two logical fallacies here.

1) No one has said a thing about those who can afford to helping the poor out forever. This is obviously a discrete event that will take some time for people to recover from, but with help, they will recover.

2) This assumes that every single poor person is lazy and just doesn't want to work, and that's the one and only reason that they're poor. This is untrue, not backed up by facts or statistics, and is frankly a pervasively ugly, disgusting, and discriminatory attitude. I've seen you, and several others in American society, display this shitty attitude again and again. I'm frankly sick of it and calling you, and them, out on it.

 

[arkieb1]

@OboeGal - what Garry is stating is partially true it is a very different situation in Australia to the US we are still mostly tracking and tracing where the infection has come from in every person, we are slowly lowering the exponential infection rate and are doing a better job than some countries of slowing down the spread of the virus.

Testing here is therefore easier because they can still mostly track and trace who has been infected and who has then been exposed from them. The US lost the chance to do that weeks ago.

I don't share Garry's timeline optimism, they are saying in my state that we will potentially be in lockdown with restrictions for 6 months, possibly more at this point.

@Dancing Fire - the poor didn't "choose" to be poor during a massive global pandemic... everyone should have equal access to the best possible heath services available and things like adequate food, housing and so on. If that means rich people need to pay more tax or spend more of their money so that everyone in society gets through this, then I don't think at this point in time that is an unreasonable expectation.

This isn't a rich versus poor equation here, this is a matter of saving lives and looking after the sick, the elderly, and people that fall through the cracks in the system, including poor people.

I also want to add I know a number of middle class families (my son's friends) who have parents that have lost both jobs or have businesses currently going broke. They are hardworking honest people that are not lazy, will not be better off on welfare and are in situations of absolute despair right now. This theory of yours that all people who are on welfare must be stupid, lazy and so on, to be blunt is completely biased and incorrect. 10 million Australians from all walks of life, are currently unemployed and have just applied for welfare payments in Australia because of COVID 19 - I assume the numbers are even higher in the US.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

@OboeGal - what Garry is stating is partially true it is a very different situation in Australia to the US
I don't share Garry's timeline optimism, they are saying in my state that we will potentially be in lockdown with restrictions for 6 months, possibly more at this point.

$5 bet?

 

[Dancing Fire]

2) This assumes that every single poor person is lazy and just doesn't want to work, and that's the one and only reason that they're poor.

We would be surprised how often I hear from people who are on section 8 "free housing" ...They say why should I work ? if I work I wouldn't qualify for free housing. You aren't helping the poor by making excuses for them.

 

[Asscherhalo_lover]

We would be surprised how often I hear from people who are on section 8 "free housing" ...They say why should I work ? if I work I wouldn't qualify for free housing.

YES however if the jobs they were generally qualified for paid a reasonable living wage that they could afford market rent on this is usually not the choice most people would make. I work with a LARGE percentage of people who live in public housing. Their rent is based on income. I have one co-worker (and I work in public school) who pays $2300 a month for her "section 8" apartment. At times she has paid less and even nothing but she sure as heck had no intention of keeping it that way. There's a LOT more "gray" area than most people realize.

 

[Dancing Fire]

YES however if the jobs they were generally qualified for paid a reasonable living wage that they could afford market rent on this is usually not the choice most people would make. I work with a LARGE percentage of people who live in public housing. Their rent is based on income. I have one co-worker (and I work in public school) who pays $2300 a month for her "section 8" apartment. At times she has paid less and even nothing but she sure as heck had no intention of keeping it that way. There's a LOT more "gray" area than most people realize.

We hope not. People should work their way off of government programs as soon as possible.

 

[voce]

Maybe I'm being cynical, but you can't have unlimited immigration AND reasonable living wage for those menial jobs that the poor are all trying to compete for. The poor need to educate themselves, and not depend on a welfare system. There's only going to be fewer and fewer jobs that don't require skilled labor in an automated economy, which is the kind of future that awaits... The good life is disappearing for people who work without a specialized skill. The numbers just don't make sense, to sponsor their way of life.

If they can live as well as I do, without having to work, then what incentive do I have to work? If we become a socialist society, I'm not willing to sacrifice that much, all for the benefit of others--I'd work less and game the system, too, and everyone will end up poorer. There's not infinite resources available to help the poor. Yes, I'd like for them to be better off, but better off to me means becoming educated and having fewer children, and not overtaxing the Earth or the government. Resources are finite.

People can and should still go to get treated for COVID-19. No one should be without adequate care. Just don't give people incentives to not work, outside of the context of shelter-in-place, which is like bribing people to stay isolated.

 

[OreoRosies86]

Or people could just marry wives with cushy jobs and live comfortably!

 

[Tekate]

Filing for unemployment benefits? Read this first

Unemployment benefits are becoming a financial lifeline for millions of Americans after their employers shut their doors to help stem the spread of the coronavirus.

www.cnn.com

from the above:

In its recent stimulus package, Congress made several unprecedented changes to the unemployment insurance program.

Jobless workers will soon get an extra $600 a week on top of their state benefits, for up to four months. That will significantly boost people's payments.

Lawmakers also added up to 13 weeks of extended benefits, on top of state programs, which vary between up to 12 and 28 weeks.

Plus, the new pandemic unemployment assistance program expands eligibility to those who are unemployed, partially unemployed or unable to work because of the virus and don't qualify for traditional benefits. This also includes independent contractors, the self-employed and gig economy workers. The pandemic program benefits mirror what's available in one's state.

Congress also allowed states to relax some of the rules to make it easier to approve applications.

The extended benefits and pandemic program end by December 31.

If your family member was laid off etc she/he would be eligible for the above. But people cannot quit their jobs, they must be furloughed, fired, laid off there are other reasons according to each state.

I haven’t called anyone a name. I can not say the same is true the other way around. I have to laugh at being called a Trump apologists though. People see what they want I guess.

I specified this is what is happening in our state. I can not provide internal HR documents or personnel information. I am sure you understand that. The state website has temporarily taken down their online calculator and other tables are out of date because this is all new calclulations. I can give you the calculations we ran for our son who works full time, based on info provided by his HR department. No, I will not Be able to provide a copy of the email from his employer. If there are layoffs it would be a lagging affect so while he is fine now it may still happen even after other things start to get back to normal. Right now he earns $850 biweekly (Net-he has a few things taken out like insurance and 401K). No I can not send you a copy of his paystub to support that. Under the current unemployment he would receive $1000 weekly. I could take a pic of the sticky note where I did the simple math...would that suffice? I am glad he is able to work full time and a layoff for him would likely be temporary. It would be very hard for him to get another job as good as this one. He is autistic and doing very well in his current role.
I don’t have any evidence to prove to you that he is autistic, may eventually be laid off or that he is doing well in his current position.

I did just contact my niece as she is in a different state. She confirmed that she will be getting more in emergency unemployment benefits than what she was previously earning. Her employer was trying to give everyone some hours but as soon as that was passed they laid off all but a few because it was better for the employees. She declined to talk to you to verify that.
I am not aware of any conversations between Tucker Carlson and Trump regarding taking care of people via unemployment benefits.

 

[OboeGal]

Maybe I'm being cynical, but you can't have unlimited immigration AND reasonable living wage for those menial jobs that the poor are all trying to compete for. The poor need to educate themselves, and not depend on a welfare system. There's only going to be fewer and fewer jobs that don't require skilled labor in an automated economy, which is the kind of future that awaits... The good life is disappearing for people who work without a specialized skill. The numbers just don't make sense, to sponsor their way of life.

If they can live as well as I do, without having to work, then what incentive do I have to work? If we become a socialist society, I'm not willing to sacrifice that much, all for the benefit of others--I'd work less and game the system, too, and everyone will end up poorer. There's not infinite resources available to help the poor. Yes, I'd like for them to be better off, but better off to me means becoming educated and having fewer children, and not overtaxing the Earth or the government. Resources are finite.

People can and should still go to get treated for COVID-19. No one should be without adequate care. Just don't give people incentives to not work, outside of the context of shelter-in-place, which is like bribing people to stay isolated.

What you say is true for many, if not most; but what about those who, for various reasons, are not capable of learning those more advanced skills or working those skilled jobs? There are many with physical, mental, and/or psychological disabilities; many who might be innately capable of learning those skills and working those jobs, but due to being born into extreme poverty have no educational foundation or resources to get that training to begin with; or who are physically capable of and willing to work and have opportunities for education, but are - as difficult as this is to say - simply not intelligent enough or creative enough or innovative enough or innately skilled enough to do those jobs. What happens to those people and their children? Should they just die? Or do they deserve to have safe shelter, food, and medical care? As it is, in the US at least, people with legitimate disabilities don't even receive enough for subsistence living - they're essentially being punished by society for being disabled. This brings us to the concept of the universal basic income (UBI), which is only going to become more necessary as, like you mention, more and more unskilled jobs disappear due to automation.

 

[Tekate]

another non sequitur. with gratuitous smack at Biden.

Yes I meant 2016. I have dementia like J. Biden.

 

[Tekate]

True, my point was people were quitting their jobs, to get unemployment in Texas you can't quit your job.

Because the Covid Relief package is adding $600 per week to any unemployment claim. Max in Idaho is $405 per week plus the $600 is more than many make a week working. They can do this until July 31, and maybe longer if another package is signed.

This is why I am angry at Congress for not making it only 100% of a person's salary.

Are you newly eligible for unemployment insurance? Here's what to know

Here's how the new Pandemic Unemployment Assistance program expands eligibility and calculates weekly benefits for self-employed, freelance and gig workers.

www.cnbc.com

 

[voce]

@OboeGal I'm a believer of giving them something, but not as much as someone would have if they were working and middle-class. There needs to be a social and economic incentive for people to self improve and do more, or society would become dysfunctional.

A society where everyone had exactly the same thing, no difference in outcome between someone who is talented and works hard and someone who is barely contributing anything... That's the ideology of Communist China, and though in some ways it was a fairer society back then than today (more gender equality, for instance), they were dirt poor until they tried capitalism. You are going to have these differences, but that's the natural order of the world imo. We're all born with different personalities, and it's those who adapt the best who do the best.

 

[Tekate]

I have the same feeling? under new persona maybe?

I’m having flashbacks of a PS era gone by... are some old familiar characters coming out to play?

 

[Tekate]

You 'hear' from people on Section 8 housing? My brother has been the very lucky recipient of Section 8 housing and he's mentally ill and can't work, or walk due to 2 strokes, I don't know who you hear from but you need to back that statement up with facts because it sounds totally implausible. Also to get Section 8 housing takes YEARS and years, it's not a drop in but you must know that right?

We would be surprised how often I hear from people who are on section 8 "free housing" ...They say why should I work ? if I work I wouldn't qualify for free housing. You aren't helping the poor by making excuses for them.

 

[OreoRosies86]

I have the same feeling? under new persona maybe?

Ding ding ding. Or maybe had a few backup accounts!

 

[MakingTheGrade]

It’ll be interesting to see if this helps universal income or universal health care gain traction.

Also for those who think there shouldn’t be welfare or basic income, here’s a rather sobering take on things:

Personally I think it more likely we’d move to having 3 day work weeks to spread “jobs” around if need be, but the point is legitimate. “Retraining” assumes there’s always “new and better” jobs which is not an inherent truth of reality.

 

[OboeGal]

@OboeGal I'm a believer of giving them something, but not as much as someone would have if they were working and middle-class. There needs to be a social and economic incentive for people to self improve and do more, or society would become dysfunctional.

A society where everyone had exactly the same thing, no difference in outcome between someone who is talented and works hard and someone who is barely contributing anything... That's the ideology of Communist China, and though in some ways it was a fairer society back then than today (more gender equality, for instance), they were dirt poor until they tried capitalism. You are going to have these differences, but that's the natural order of the world imo. We're all born with different personalities, and it's those who adapt the best who do the best.

I agree that there should still be market incentives for those who can to contribute to society and be rewarded with a commensurate lifestyle, but I don't believe that those who are simply incapable, through no fault of their own, to work at all or do more than menial work, should be sentenced to a life of barely subsistence living or less. There's a very wide area of possibility between how things work in the US now and socialism/communism. I support the model of Nordic and western European countries.