What are your thoughts on how government is handling COVID-19

[arkieb1]

The government doesn't manufacture masks, ventilators, or anything else. They also don't order these things for hospitals unless it's the VA. No one was prepared for this. No one. If regulations are getting in the way of manufacturing then that is your government at work, long before Trump. He talks like an idiot and there will be things that our government screwed up but all the Trump hate for every little problem is totally irrational. And your talk of Trump voters is par for the course in HO these days. IMO HO looks like it's an intolerant liberal Trump hating hen party/kaffeeklatsch complete with Mother Superiors who rap the knuckles of any diversity of thought. I realize not everyone is like this but from another POV this is what it looks like. And people have a nerve telling me I'm not helpful.

There will be plenty to criticize when this is over.

We have a conservative government in Australia, they (ie someone in the health department) realised that we would run out of masks because here we get them from China, guess what, China isn't selling them to other countries since the virus. There was literally one single company I'm aware of that makes surgical masks here. Our government sent army guys down the the factory to learn along side the regular staff how to manufacture as many masks possible... we are still running short of supplies but imagine how much worse that would have been if someone did not have the forethought weeks ago to do what they did.

Believe it or not this isn't about bashing conservatives or a conservative government, Trump and his administration is woefully incompetent on many many levels, so for that matter was the Italian Government, and a few others I can think of compared to the rest of the world. The Chinese Government lied and probably still is lying to the rest of the world about this disease.... So I don't think it's about Trump bashing at all for me it's about observing how badly he and his staff have handled this, and it's not just the US there are plenty of other Governments that are mishandling this irrespective of which side of politics they are on (the UK comes to mind) as well.

 

[redwood66]

We have a conservative government in Australia, they (ie someone in the health department) realised that we would run out of masks because here we get them from China, guess what, China isn't selling them to other countries since the virus. There was literally one single company I'm aware of that makes surgical masks here. Our government sent army guys down the the factory to learn along side the regular staff how to manufacture as many masks possible... we are still running short of supplies but imagine how much worse that would have been if someone did not have the forethought weeks ago to do what they did.

Believe it or not this isn't about bashing conservatives or a conservative government, Trump and his administration is woefully incompetent on many many levels, so for that matter was the Italian Government, and a few others I can think of compared to the rest of the world. The Chinese Government lied and probably still is lying to the rest of the world about this disease.... So I don't think it's about Trump bashing at all for me it's about observing how badly he and his staff have handled this.

You hit the nail on the head for me. Why is any country relying so much on China for production? Of nearly everything including medical supplies, medication, the list is endless.

 

[voce]

You hit the nail on the head for me. Why is any country relying so much on China for production? Of nearly everything including medical supplies, medication, the list is endless.

For many years now, the global economy (free trade) had made it so that China is the only provider of scalable, cost efficient production that's of reliable quality (not necessarily the best, but reliable compared with the products produced in other countries in Asia). Is the British idea of free trade necessarily the one that works best?

To prevent dysfunctions like what is now happening with medical supplies in a pandemic where one country has all the means, maybe Switzerland and Trump are on to something with protectionism.

 

[OoohShiny]

You hit the nail on the head for me. Why is any country relying so much on China for production? Of nearly everything including medical supplies, medication, the list is endless.

Because cheap.

And because no regard for welfare or Human Rights!

 

[redwood66]

Because cheap.

And because no regard for welfare or Human Rights!

Yep. And everyone is addicted to cheap crap. It is hard to try to buy things not from China.

 

[Tekate]

No more deplorable than Romney referring to 47% of the electorate as scroungers who will never vote for him anyway.

Yes, they’re quite deplorable aren’t they.

 

[jaaron]

Doesn't it seem like there's a middle ground between protectionism and allowing everything to be outsourced to countries with dirt cheap labour and deplorable human rights records? To my mind, truly progressive taxation on personal wealth would accomplish that. Cheap goods and outsourced jobs only really provide two things 1. disposable goods at a time when the environment doesn't needs more things disposed of (I'm starting to feel, as of about 2 laptops ago that Macs are now supposed to be disposable), 2. more personal wealth for a select few. If we really taxed personal wealth above a certain amount, wouldn't it remove the impetus? I mean, Trump may rant about protectionism, but he's never going to make it happen as long as he can build his crappy buildings out of cheap Chinese steel...

 

[Tekate]

Lives vs lives - old vs young - chronically vs healthy is what he's saying. I'm not willing to let people with cystic fibrosis become very ill or die just because of the economy and that is what he's saying in a veiled way imho.

This is an interesting article and raises the issue of Covid19 being designated as a Notifiable Disease, meaning it is recorded on a death certificate even if it is not the cause of death (if I understand it correctly) which might mean it is overrepresented in statistics and apparent severity, especially when compared with 'normal' seasonal flu:

Attention Required!

 

[bludiva]

You hit the nail on the head for me. Why is any country relying so much on China for production? Of nearly everything including medical supplies, medication, the list is endless.

consumers are addicted to cheap goods and business owners are addicted to getting the most margin possible. we all have to give up a little in order to make the business case for high quality local manufacturing work. consumers have the power to make it happen through concerted effort (if we remember the days of boycotting nike and ensuing changes the company made) but it would have to be a huge collective effort

 

[bludiva]

Lives vs lives - old vs young - chronically vs healthy is what he's saying. I'm not willing to let people with cystic fibrosis become very ill or die just because of the economy and that is what he's saying in a veiled way imho.

it's really not clear that that's the tradeoff either.... more than half the cases where i live are people under 50 and we are hearing reports of young people without other conditions dying from this disease...it seems unpredictable or at least our understanding is incomplete at the moment.

 

[1ofakind]

No more deplorable than Romney referring to 47% of the electorate as scroungers who will never vote for him anyway.

That’s an interesting defense. Because one person wrongly denigrates an entire segment of the population it justifies when someone else does the same to another group. Got it.

 

[voce]

@jaaron while I concur on other things you mentioned on your post, I'm skeptical truly progressive taxation on personal wealth would solve the problem. Those people could simply emigrate to another country (like how so many companies are now "based" in Ireland) where they could continue carrying on same as before.

 

[redwood66]

Perhaps the US government should spend less across the board instead of devising ways to take more of taxpayer wealth.

 

[AGBF]

And I understand that POV completely because of this awful crisis. But know that my inherent mistrust of government making too much overreach in that arena makes me leery. Once power is taken it is not lightly given back. Coordination is definitely required so items get to those most in need. Hopefully there will be many lessons learned for future problems.

Then who will coordinate the "war" effort, red, and make sure that supplies reach our sick people? This has been done before in wartime. I understand your fear. I have similar fears when the executive branch attempts to take away other civil liberties from people. It is why I belong to the ACLU.

 

[redwood66]

Then who will coordinate the "war" effort, red, and make sure that supplies reach our sick people? This has been done before in wartime. I understand your fear. I have similar fears when the executive branch attempts to take away other civil liberties from people. It is why I belong to the ACLU.

The government can coordinate through its multiple departments. It was your use of the word Trump can "order" manufacturers to make things that I was referring to. I don't want the POTUS "ordering" the private sector to do anything. That would be for any POTUS. The country is an entirely different place than we were during WWII.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Not this American. Not any of the Americans I know. :/

These are all Asians..

CNN Poll of Polls: Trump's approval up amid coronavirus concerns

President Donald Trump's approval now averages higher than his approval rating has been at any point in CNN's polling during his presidency, as 47% approve and 48% disapprove rating of his handling of the presidency, according to CNN's Poll of Polls.

www.cnn.com

 

[Dancing Fire]

Trudeau said yesterday that Trump wants to put the military along the Canadian border - I guess to stop illegal border crossers? My husband and I agreed its more likely that americans will try to get into Canada for the free healthcare, not the other way around

No need to go into Canada everything is FREE in Ca.

 

[Tekate]

@redwood66 said: IMO HO looks like it's an intolerant liberal Trump hating hen party/kaffeeklatsch complete with Mother Superiors who rap the knuckles of any diversity of thought. I realize not everyone is like this but from another POV this is what it looks like. And people have a nerve telling me I'm not helpful.

Imho the conservatives in HO look like an intolerant democratic hating hen party/kaffeeklatsch complete with Mother Superiors who rap the knuckles of any diversity of thought on HO, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Granted there are not many conservatives in HO I don't feel they were run off, I feel they left or in the case of one poster, banned. Really, both sides find the other incredulous. Both sides find the other intolerant.

Democrats wonder why conservatives don't read medical news, democrats think that conservatives live in a Trump bubble because he is a 'strong leader' 'authoritarian". They only watch conservative shows and read only red sites. I want a leader who brings together and tries to work effectively in all groups. consensus builder.

INSIDE THE MINDS OF HARDCORE TRUMP SUPPORTERS

Inside the Minds of Hardcore Trump Supporters

New research finds the president's earliest and strongest followers embody a particularly belligerent strain of authoritarian thinking.

psmag.com

snips from the pointed to report.

"Consistent with Trump's representation of the world as a dangerous place requiring harsh treatment of deviant minorities," they write, "Trump supporters were high on authoritarian aggression."

I would agree that Trump supporters do see the world as a dangerous place and they want closed borders, with what they consider 'deviant' minorities out of America. Trump voters are high on having an aggressive authoritarian president. As a liberal this is total anathema to me! I believe the world should be communicating, assisting each other, educating each other, working with each other. Big difference between Trump people and for the sake of argument Obama supporters since Biden is unproven at this time.

Strong support for conventionalism/traditionalism was also linked to support for Trump, but high scores on the submission category—that is, respect for authority, and obedience to superiors—was not.

I think this goes to the conservative as more conventional and traditional (no gays, marriage a man and a woman, man head of home (EGADS!), children obeying, all traditional views that I do not hold at all. (Christian country)

last one I'll post you can read the whole thing.

Authoritarianism in the Trump era "is not the wish to follow any and every authority but, rather, the wish to support a strong and determined authority who will 'crush evil and take us back to our true path,'" Smith and his co-author, Eric Hanley, conclude.

Trump voters want a strong and determined authority who will crush evil (again the wall, Chinese virus (evil), Pocahontas, "socialism", Crazy Joe (any Joe), low energy Jeb, Crooked Hillary,to just a teeny few of the disgusting name calling that Trump does, but to his base this is "truth" and people who don't like it are "snowflakes", I see it as rude, mean, bullying, very poor manners and plain disgusting, but I am not a Trump voter. Trump the Destroyer for both sides, to me he's literally destroyed America as I knew it, as my father fought for it and to the Trump voters he destroys his (their) enemies. To the conservative he's a destroyer of socialism, liberals, bureaucracy, terrorists, abortionists, any group that the right believes is eroding 'American Values' as in "Make America Great Again" dog whistle for making America more religious, the way it was back in time (coda for white imho)..

There is no way to change what people want so until we all die there will be this screaming match, because unless Mr Authority starts killing people like me (and I doubt he will) I will continue to STAND up for the America I want and believe is best.

So this is a impasse imho. No way out of this mess till the time when we become progressive, coherent, and caring. Not in my lifetime I think now.

I didn't go into religion either!

 

[Dancing Fire]

Yep. And everyone is addicted to cheap crap. It is hard to try to buy things not from China.

All chinese made products are low quality. I'd buy American made products if available.

 

[redwood66]

@redwood66 said: IMO HO looks like it's an intolerant liberal Trump hating hen party/kaffeeklatsch complete with Mother Superiors who rap the knuckles of any diversity of thought. I realize not everyone is like this but from another POV this is what it looks like. And people have a nerve telling me I'm not helpful.

Imho the conservatives in HO look like an intolerant democratic hating hen party/kaffeeklatsch complete with Mother Superiors who rap the knuckles of any diversity of thought on HO, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Granted there are not many conservatives in HO I don't feel they were run off, I feel they left or in the case of one poster, banned. Really, both sides find the other incredulous. Both sides find the other intolerant.

Democrats wonder why conservatives don't read medical news, democrats think that conservatives live in a Trump bubble because he is a 'strong leader' 'authoritarian". They only watch conservative shows and read only red sites. I want a leader who brings together and tries to work effectively in all groups. consensus builder.

INSIDE THE MINDS OF HARDCORE TRUMP SUPPORTERS

Inside the Minds of Hardcore Trump Supporters

New research finds the president's earliest and strongest followers embody a particularly belligerent strain of authoritarian thinking.

psmag.com

snips from the pointed to report.

"Consistent with Trump's representation of the world as a dangerous place requiring harsh treatment of deviant minorities," they write, "Trump supporters were high on authoritarian aggression."

I would agree that Trump supporters do see the world as a dangerous place and they want closed borders, with what they consider 'deviant' minorities out of America. Trump voters are high on having an aggressive authoritarian president. As a liberal this is total anathema to me! I believe the world should be communicating, assisting each other, educating each other, working with each other. Big difference between Trump people and for the sake of argument Obama supporters since Biden is unproven at this time.

Strong support for conventionalism/traditionalism was also linked to support for Trump, but high scores on the submission category—that is, respect for authority, and obedience to superiors—was not.

I think this goes to the conservative as more conventional and traditional (no gays, marriage a man and a woman, man head of home (EGADS!), children obeying, all traditional views that I do not hold at all. (Christian country)

last one I'll post you can read the whole thing.

Authoritarianism in the Trump era "is not the wish to follow any and every authority but, rather, the wish to support a strong and determined authority who will 'crush evil and take us back to our true path,'" Smith and his co-author, Eric Hanley, conclude.

Trump voters want a strong and determined authority who will crush evil (again the wall, Chinese virus (evil), Pocahontas, "socialism", Crazy Joe (any Joe), low energy Jeb, Crooked Hillary,to just a teeny few of the disgusting name calling that Trump does, but to his base this is "truth" and people who don't like it are "snowflakes", I see it as rude, mean, bullying, very poor manners and plain disgusting, but I am not a Trump voter. Trump the Destroyer for both sides, to me he's literally destroyed America as I knew it, as my father fought for it and to the Trump voters he destroys his (their) enemies. To the conservative he's a destroyer of socialism, liberals, bureaucracy, terrorists, abortionists, any group that the right believes is eroding 'American Values' as in "Make America Great Again" dog whistle for making America more religious, the way it was back in time (coda for white imho)..

There is no way to change what people want so until we all die there will be this screaming match, because unless Mr Authority starts killing people like me (and I doubt he will) I will continue to STAND up for the America I want and believe is best.

So this is a impasse imho. No way out of this mess till the time when we become progressive, coherent, and caring. Not in my lifetime I think now.

I didn't go into religion either!

I don't know anyone like that so all of this is hyperbole. And I'm here tolerant as ever.

 

[voce]

All chinese made products are low quality. I'd buy American made products if available.

Too bad there's no American made iPhones, eh?

I think that's a hasty generalization. Some Chinese made products, such as electronics and industrial chemicals, are high quality. I also try to buy American made products when they're available, but it's simply not true when you say "all" Chinese made products are "low quality" or "crap."

 

[MarionC]

Not to highjack the thread, but how do you make a mask fine enough at home that filters out viruses?

 

[Dancing Fire]

Too bad there's no American made iPhones, eh?

I think that's a hasty generalization. Some Chinese made products, such as electronics and industrial chemicals, are high quality. I also try to buy American made products when they're available, but it's simply not true when you say "all" Chinese made products are "low quality" or "crap."

They are!. i.e. The water pump running my koi pond is made in USA, its been running 24/7 for the past 13 yrs and still going strong. My koi friends who are using cheap chinese pumps usually need a new water pump every 2-3 yrs. Yes my American made pump cost 2X as much as the low quality Chinese made one but in the long run I come out ahead.

As for Iphones???. Iphones doesn't need to last long since most people will upgrade every 2-3 yrs.

 

[voce]

They are!. i.e. The water pump running my koi pond is made in USA, its been running 24/7 for the past 13 yrs and still going strong. My koi friends who are using cheap chinese pumps usually need a new water pump every 2-3 yrs. Yes my American made pump cost 2X as much as the low quality Chinese made one but in the long run I come out ahead.

As for Iphones???. Iphones doesn't need to last long since most people will upgrade every 2-3 yrs.

You can think however you like, but I just want to point out this is anecdotal, unscientific, unrepresentative information. Anecdotally, the Chinese furniture we (as in my family) have imported, such as beds and dining tables, have cost more and have held up way longer and are still good compared to American-made furniture we have purchased locally, which we replaced after 10 years. That doesn't mean anything in the overall picture. Water pumps and furniture don't represent the entire range of what China has produced.

There's quite a range of quality even in Chinese products, so it's irrational to compare the cheapest, poorest quality ones from China to the best quality products elsewhere. As kenny says, people vary. Well, in my opinion, the quality of products varies, too, no matter where they're being produced. It's irrational and discriminatory to classify ANY and ALL products China makes to be inferior.

 

[JPie]

DF is made in China and he's lasted this long. No idea what he's complaining about!

 

[missy]

Not to highjack the thread, but how do you make a mask fine enough at home that filters out viruses?

You cannot make one as good as an N95 mask but you can come close. If you have a vacuum bag you can make a really great against Covid 19 mask or if you are willing to take a bit less protection a tight woven cotton will do. Let me find the info for you. BRB.

Face Masks and other strategies to help slow Covid-19 spread

I want to get the info on face masks. I am guessing this might be of interest to some/many of us. Here is the info I found from the WHO. https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/when-and-how-to-use-masks I was chatting with a good friend yesterday and...

www.pricescope.com

From @Arcadian

DIY How to Sew a Surgical Face Mask for Hospitals in Need

Learn How to Sew a Surgical Face Mask With This Step-By-Step Tutorial With Video featured by top US sewing blog, Sweet Red Poppy. Click here now!!

sweetredpoppy.com

A.B. Mask - for a Nurse by a Nurse

A.B. Mask - for a Nurse by a Nurse: ***This was designed for love, not profit. Respect health care workers. Please respect my intellectual property. Please don't try to make money off of this - don't be that guy.
 A.B. Mask fabric mask and N95 cover sewing pattern designed by a nurs…

www.instructables.com

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

Contrary to the idea that no one planned for a pandemic, the Obama Admin developed and researched something called the Playbook for a Pandemic. It was organized to show which agencies could be used for help. It was presented to the NSC when completed, and was the road map for such a crisis as we now have. It was given to the Trump Administration, which discarded it. A Dr. Emanuel from the Medical Center at the University of Pa. (Med School) was part of putting that playbook together along other other important people. It never was presented to Trumps NSC. But it was there.

The Fed Gov't has always been the coordinator and distributor of essential materials and manpower to aid in any disaster. A Pandemic needs to be coordinated by a Central Entity.
The Pres usually directs the effort.

This Admin does not know how to function under normal circumstances, let alone in an emergency.

I came on here today with the express purpose of voicing something that struck me hard the other day or week. It was one of Trumps first TV Virus Conferences. Each person that came up to the podium had to praise DT , even for things he had obviously not done. One after another they came. Suddenly it dawned on me. Now I never ever like to use what I am about to write because I think it takes away from the extreme importance of what happened in Germany during the war. THE Holocaust. What do you people think Heil Hitler was about. An egomaniac who needed constant praise.
A German electorate who was wounded by losing the first world war and Hitler was promising to restore their honor and make Germany Great Again. Some poster above made references to,our electorate and what they want. It is why they are so resilient in their support for DT. We are on Germanys' path to electing a man who wants to be saluted with Heil Trump. And this man, as we know, will do anything to win.

Keep the criticism up--He approval rating Is extraordinary, but our concern here on HO is to tell each other as much of the truth as we see. Thats all we can do on here.

Annette

 

[Arcadian]

Hey @missy, There might be something better in hosptials already. @MakingTheGrade maybe check to see if you guys have this stuff laying around (sure you might!)

The innovative mask uses Halyard H600 two-ply spun polypropylene that cannot be penetrated by water, bacteria or particles. It blocks 99.9% of particulates, making the masks about 4% more effective at blocking particulate material than the N95 masks, according to Bruce Spiess, M.D., a professor of anesthesiology in the UF College of Medicine, who made that calculation based on the manufacturer’s specifications.

More coronavirus DIY: UF upcycles for masks

With N-95 respiratory masks in short supply, UF Health workers devise way to reuse hospital materials, otherwise discarded.

www.gainesville.com

 

[missy]

@smitcompton I also think people are afraid of him and afraid of retribution if they piss him off. And he "threatened" to withhold supplies to the states IIRC. Donald Trump has big mental issues IMO. And one must handle him with care to get what one needs and wants. Humoring him as best as one can for the greater good right now. And that is getting through this pandemic whole.

 

[Dancing Fire]

DF is made in China and he's lasted this long. No idea what he's complaining about!

I was made in HK.