What are your thoughts on how government is handling COVID-19

[redwood66]

All the red tape and regulations sure shine during a crisis making it difficult to have anything happen speedily. If it can be made to go away in an emergency how necessary was it in the first place?

 

[AGBF]

That's so helpful.

You and Kate make me laugh when I want to cry, red. You are both needed here. I agree with her more than with you, red (as you know). But I so much need both of you here in Hangout. Like peanut butter and jelly.

Which reminds me. I made a loaf of bread yesterday in which the flour did not mix in. Everyone ate all of the loaf anyway. Flour blowing all over the table. So I am trying again. Today I used 1 percent milk instead of adding cream to it to try to "make" whole milk.

Deb

 

[Tekate]

As my late, GREAT, crazy, wonderful, AA card carrying mother always said to us growing up. Show, Fit, Wear.

That's so helpful.

 

[Tekate]

Thank you Deb! we are a triad! we need each other, Red is the ONLY conservative I ever (sorta) met that changed my mind on some things, so I def def def need her, and you ALWAYS make me think and your always back your opinion.. So we are the supersonic TRIAD of PS Hangouts! (of course there are many more members I'm just browning you and Red up) xoxoxoxo and glad your daughter sees humor in what is humorous.

all love Deb, all love.

You and Kate make me laugh when I want to cry, red. You are both needed here. I agree with her more than with you, red (as you know). But I so much need both of you here in Hangout. Like peanut butter and jelly.

Which reminds me. I made a loaf of bread yesterday in which the flour did not mix in. Everyone ate all of the loaf anyway. Flour blowing all over the table. So I am trying again. Today I used 1 percent milk instead of adding cream to it to try to "make" whole milk.

Deb

 

[MakingTheGrade]

“Today, no hospital, no nurse, no doctor can say legitimately say ‘I don’t have protective equipment’,” Cuomo said all hospitals in NY have enough PPE. They are working to increase the supply for the expected surge.
This was yesterdays press conference,

Oh I’d really love to know his sources on this cause my front line friends would say otherwise. So either he’s lying or hospital admin is lying to him or things are in such chaos that nobody actually knows anything for sure.

Also literally a few days ago, nobody in the ED could find me protective eye wear when I went to see a patient on droplet precautions. Is our hospital officially out of PPE? No. Could I find what I needed? Nope. Did I go into the patient room anyways? Yup. (I wear giant glasses and patient was a low risk rule out so I wasn’t too worried. Had this been a confirmed covid case I would not have gone in without taking however long it took to find eyewear. But remember this is the emergency room, it’s really not great if it takes more than a minute to find PPE. Doesn’t matter if technically we have it somewhere in a box in supply chain.)

 

[AGBF]

I have been listening to news and paying special attention to this issue ever since it came up in this thread. It seems to me to be a problem between PPEs arriving at a point where the governor receives them and their being distributed efficiently to hospitals. I believe the disconnect was caused by Governor Cuomo saying he had supplies and the reality being that hospitals did not have supplies,

A renowned physician whose son runs an ER in New York corroborated that he didn't, yet, have enough PPEs. He said that every day (even now) he had his staff gown up and keep on all the same equipment instead of changing between patients, He said his son did not know when he would get more PPEs.

And, of course, these are PPEs, not ventilators. Trump needs to act and he will not unless someone makes him. He needs to implement the Defense Production Act yesterday.

Oh I’d really love to know his sources on this cause my front line friends would say otherwise. So either he’s lying or hospital admin is lying to him or things are in such chaos that nobody actually knows anything for sure.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

i and no doubt thousands of other party faithful got this email from the leader of the opposition last night - i must be on a party supporters list some where

Dear Nicky -- I couldn’t be prouder of Kiwis when we unite together. We are in tough times, but it is that unity and strength that will get us through. There is no room for politics in a National Emergency, and we stand fundamentally with the Government to do all we can to defeat Covid-19. The health and safety of our people, our communities, and our country is just too important. To the essential frontline workers keeping us safe and supplied with the everyday things we need, we thank you for your service to your fellow Kiwis. But as individuals, we must do our bit for our fellow Kiwis. Today was day one, of a four-week lockdown. I know many of you are feeling anxious and uncertain with many questions about the days and weeks ahead, but please know that you are not alone. We are all in this together. Our entire team of Members of Parliament, staff, candidates and volunteers will be working hard to keep connected with our communities, particularly our older and more vulnerable Kiwis, to help them get through this difficult and challenging time. We want to be as accessible as the current situation allows, so if you or someone you know need to contact your local MP for support or advice, you can find their details here. Make sure you also stay up to date with the latest Ministry of Health announcements here at www.covid19.govt.nz. We have a real chance to flatten the curve of infection of Covid-19, but we can only do that if we all play by the same rules. The decisions we make don’t just affect ourselves but also the lives of others in our community. Our message is simple. Stay at home, save lives. Respect the lockdown, only go out for essentials, and look after each other. We’re counting on you. Stay safe. Simon.

 

[OoohShiny]

 

[arkieb1]

Australian media is reporting Trumps approval rating has gone up;

President Trump's Job Approval Rating Up to 49%

Amid the COVID-19 situation, Donald Trump's job approval rating has increased five percentage points from the prior survey.

news.gallup.com

Seriously Americans think this idiot is doing a good job???? WTF!!!!

 

[voce]

Australian media is reporting Trumps approval rating has gone up;

President Trump's Job Approval Rating Up to 49%

Amid the COVID-19 situation, Donald Trump's job approval rating has increased five percentage points from the prior survey.

news.gallup.com

Seriously Americans think this idiot is doing a good job???? WTF!!!!

This doesn't surprise me. There's a lot of Americans who are not well educated, have trouble with understanding statistical data, or have trouble discerning between fact and fiction. Trump just had to offer them enough feel-good lip service without overcommitting himself on actionable tasks, and he'll be fine with them on polls.

 

[1ofakind]

This doesn't surprise me. There's a lot of Americans who are not well educated, have trouble with understanding statistical data, or have trouble discerning between fact and fiction. Trump just had to offer them enough feel-good lip service without overcommitting himself on actionable tasks, and he'll be fine with them on polls.

Yes, they’re quite deplorable aren’t they.

 

[arkieb1]

@voce - I disagree with you there are enough intelligent people who can read and understand statistical data and discern fact from fiction on here that support him to think otherwise. It was demonstrated after he got elected that many people that voted for him were not illiterate redneck hillbillies they were in fact middle class white men and women....

IMHO it's not that they can't discern fact from fiction it's that this guy walks on water and they therefore write their own narrative or re-write their own fiction when it comes to him and everything he says and does.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Australian media is reporting Trumps approval rating has gone up;

President Trump's Job Approval Rating Up to 49%

Amid the COVID-19 situation, Donald Trump's job approval rating has increased five percentage points from the prior survey.

news.gallup.com

Seriously Americans think this idiot is doing a good job???? WTF!!!!

Yes, unless you are a liberal.

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

@voce - I disagree with you there are enough intelligent people who can read and understand statistical data and discern fact from fiction on here that support him to think otherwise. It was demonstrated after he got elected that many people that voted for him were not illiterate redneck hillbillies they were in fact middle class white men and women....

IMHO it's not that they can't discern fact from fiction it's that this guy walks on water and they therefore write their own narrative or re-write their own fiction when it comes to him and everything he says and does.

People tend to gather "evidence" for whatever they believe in. I actually experienced it first hand when I was a new mum. I was at breaking point and decided to sleep train the baby. Baby sleep trained beautifully but I realised some time afterwards that I only read pro sleep training material by because that was what I was going to do anyway. During that time I believed ( and provided myself with enough evidence) that anyone who co slept was a nutter destined to have a child that would never sleep properly because I personally would never tolerate co sleeping.

I think that's why people believe Trump. If it fits with their narrative and comforts them there is no way they'll question it.

 

[missy]

Trump is saying the states don't need as many supplies as they say they need. Really??? OMG.

We need more ventilators in NY (mostly NYC but still the entire state needs more). We don't have enough. The overall projection more than 50% of NYC will be infected. We don't have enough supplies. I know many many (if not all) states are going to need more supplies as this continues. It is only going to get worse before it slows down. Period.

NYC is going to be closed through May at least. The President doesn't get that we have a tough battle ahead? Build those ventilators. Get those supplies to everyone.

How the heck is Trump's approval rating going up???

 

[missy]

Australian media is reporting Trumps approval rating has gone up;

President Trump's Job Approval Rating Up to 49%

Amid the COVID-19 situation, Donald Trump's job approval rating has increased five percentage points from the prior survey.

news.gallup.com

Seriously Americans think this idiot is doing a good job???? WTF!!!!

Not this American. Not any of the Americans I know. :/

 

[missy]

I have been listening to news and paying special attention to this issue ever since it came up in this thread. It seems to me to be a problem between PPEs arriving at a point where the governor receives them and their being distributed efficiently to hospitals. I believe the disconnect was caused by Governor Cuomo saying he had supplies and the reality being that hospitals did not have supplies,

A renowned physician whose son runs an ER in New York corroborated that he didn't, yet, have enough PPEs. He said that every day (even now) he had his staff gown up and keep on all the same equipment instead of changing between patients, He said his son did not know when he would get more PPEs.

And, of course, these are PPEs, not ventilators. Trump needs to act and he will not unless someone makes him. He needs to implement the Defense Production Act yesterday.

My physician friends who are in the hospitals working hard are telling me they are out of PPEs and other supplies. I believe them.

 

[Loves Vintage]

People all over facebook are making face masks out of flannel and cotton for doctors to use. This is America . . . under Trump. Unconscionable.

 

[Loves Vintage]

@voce - I disagree with you there are enough intelligent people who can read and understand statistical data and discern fact from fiction on here that support him to think otherwise. It was demonstrated after he got elected that many people that voted for him were not illiterate redneck hillbillies they were in fact middle class white men and women....

IMHO it's not that they can't discern fact from fiction it's that this guy walks on water and they therefore write their own narrative or re-write their own fiction when it comes to him and everything he says and does.

Yes, but, middle class doesn't necessarily mean you are capable of critical thinking.

 

[OoohShiny]

This is an interesting article and raises the issue of Covid19 being designated as a Notifiable Disease, meaning it is recorded on a death certificate even if it is not the cause of death (if I understand it correctly) which might mean it is overrepresented in statistics and apparent severity, especially when compared with 'normal' seasonal flu:

Attention Required!

 

[soxfan]

My neighbor is a nurse. She gets ONE mask per day. We don't even have a lot of cases here, so I can imagine what it's like in NYC. The trumpers can keep their head in the sand. It will not mean anything to them unless they actually get it and die from it. Because if they get it and recover, they will just go spout off to everyone that it's no worse than the flu, then go on fox news and bow down to their orange lord and savior. Canada sounds better and better every single day.

 

[Niffler75]

Yep same here in the UK. People and politicians need to stop and listen to the reports from health professionals on the front lines! That is where the accurate reports are coming from, not someone number crunching sat behind a desk IMHO!

 

[soxfan]

Trump said on Hannity last night that major hospitals only have TWO ventilators. My daughter spent two weeks in the pediatric intensive care unit at a major hospital. There were three babies on ventilators within the small section of the PICU she was in. I guess you have to actually see it with your own eyes to know he's lying? I mean, I would think it's common sense to KNOW that major hospitals would have to have more than two ventilators, but it's obvious that his fox viewers believe ANYTHING he says.

 

[redwood66]

The government doesn't manufacture masks, ventilators, or anything else. They also don't order these things for hospitals unless it's the VA. No one was prepared for this. No one. If regulations are getting in the way of manufacturing then that is your government at work, long before Trump. He talks like an idiot and there will be things that our government screwed up but all the Trump hate for every little problem is totally irrational. And your talk of Trump voters is par for the course in HO these days. IMO HO looks like it's an intolerant liberal Trump hating hen party/kaffeeklatsch complete with Mother Superiors who rap the knuckles of any diversity of thought. I realize not everyone is like this but from another POV this is what it looks like. And people have a nerve telling me I'm not helpful.

There will be plenty to criticize when this is over.

 

[missy]

The government doesn't manufacture masks, ventilators, or anything else.

@redwood66, they don't manufacture it themselves true. But c'mon, they can make it happen.

After Considering $1 Billion Price Tag for Ventilators, White House Has Second Thoughts (Published 2020)

A deal with General Motors and Ventec Life Systems to produce tens of thousands of the critical lifesaving devices seemed imminent. Then the announcement was pulled back.

www.nytimes.com

After Considering $1 Billion Price Tag for Ventilators, White House Has Second Thoughts
A deal with General Motors and Ventec Life Systems to produce tens of thousands of the critical lifesaving devices seemed imminent. Then the announcement was pulled back.

A ventilator and other medical supplies on display at a news conference on Monday in Manhattan. The shortage of ventilators has emerged as one of the major criticism of the Trump administration’s response to the coronavirus.Credit...John Minchillo/Associated Press

By David E. Sanger, Maggie Haberman and Zolan Kanno-Youngs

• Published March 26, 2020Updated March 27, 2020, 9:33 a.m. ET
• • 
    
  • 
    
  • 760

WASHINGTON — The White House had been preparing to reveal on Wednesday a joint venture between General Motors and Ventec Life Systems that would allow for the production of as many as 80,000 desperately needed ventilators to respond to an escalating pandemic when word suddenly came down that the announcement was off.
The decision to cancel the announcement, government officials say, came after the Federal Emergency Management Agency said it needed more time to assess whether the estimated cost was prohibitive. That price tag was more than $1 billion, with several hundred million dollars to be paid upfront to General Motors to retool a car parts plant in Kokomo, Ind., where the ventilators would be made with Ventec’s technology.
Government officials said that the deal might still happen but that they are examining at least a dozen other proposals. And they contend that an initial promise that the joint venture could turn out 20,000 ventilators in short order had shrunk to 7,500, with even that number in doubt. Longtime emergency managers at FEMA are working with military officials to sort through the competing offers and federal procurement rules while under pressure to give President Trump something to announce.
But in an interview Thursday night with Sean Hannity, the president played down the need for ventilators.
ADVERTISEMENT
Continue reading the main story


“I don’t believe you need 40,000 or 30,000 ventilators,” he said, a reference to New York, where Gov. Andrew Cuomo has appealed for federal help in obtaining them. “You go into major hospitals sometimes, and they’ll have two ventilators. And now all of a sudden they’re saying, ‘Can we order 30,000 ventilators?’”
A General Motors spokesman said that “Project V,” as the ventilator program is known, was moving very fast, and a company official said “there’s no issue with retooling.”

A Ventec representative agreed.
“Ventec and G.M. have been working at breakneck speed to leverage our collective expertise in ventilation and manufacturing to meet the needs of the country as quickly as possible and arm medical professionals with the number of ventilators needed to save lives,” said Chris O. Brooks, Ventec’s chief strategy officer.
Latest Updates: Coronavirus Outbreak

• Largest relief package in U.S. history moves to Congress as global crisis deepens.
• How did the U.S. overtake the world in new infections?
• States plead for more federal help, but White House pushes back ventilator production plan.

Updated 11m ago

The only thing missing was clarity from the government about how many ventilators they needed — and who would be paid to build them.
The shortage of ventilators has emerged as one of the major criticisms of the Trump administration’s response to the coronavirus. The need to quickly equip hospitals across the country with tens of thousands more of the devices to treat those most seriously ill with the virus was not anticipated despite the Trump administration’s own projection in a simulation last yearthat millions of people could be hospitalized. And even now, the effort to produce them has been confused and disorganized.



At the center of the discussion about how to ramp up the production of ventilators is Jared Kushner, the president’s son-in-law and a senior White House aide, who has told people that he was called in two weeks ago by Vice President Mike Pence to produce more coronavirus test kits and who has now turned his attention to ventilators.
He has been directing officials at FEMA in the effort. Two officials said the suggestion to wait on the General Motors offer came from Col. Patrick Work, who is working at FEMA. Some government officials expressed concern about the possibility of ordering too many ventilators, leaving them with an expensive surplus.
Sign up to receive our daily Coronavirus Briefing, an informed guide with the latest developments and expert advice.


As the agency has sorted through offers, trying to weigh production ability and costs, hospitals in New York and elsewhere are reporting a desperate need for more ventilators, which are critical in treating respiratory problems in a fast-rising tide of severe coronavirus cases.
A spokeswoman for FEMA said Colonel Work presented information on each contract in such meetings but did not make any recommendations. A White House spokesman declined to comment.
The involvement of General Motors was first floated this month as the carmaker’s factory floor in Kokomo was grinding to a halt and workers were being sent home — partly because the market was collapsing but also because workers would otherwise risk exposure to the coronavirus.
Last week, General Motors, Ventec Life Systems and a coalition of business executives called StopTheSpread.org issued a statement saying that Ventec would “leverage G.M.’s logistics, purchasing and manufacturing expertise to build more of their critically important ventilators,” including some portable units.
By Sunday, Mr. Trump appeared to suggest on Twitter that a deal had been completed to mass-produce the ventilators, even though it was unclear who would pay to equip the General Motors plant or how long that process would take.



“Ford, General Motors and Tesla are being given the go ahead to make ventilators and other metal products, FAST! @fema,” he wrote. “Go for it auto execs, lets see how good you are?”
Not for the first time has Mr. Trump jumped the gun.
Tesla officials had in fact met with engineers from the medical device company Medtronic in a separate negotiation, but no partnership has yet been announced. And while the chief executive of General Motors, Mary T. Barra, was enthused about the ventilator idea, Mr. Trump’s own aides had not embraced the G.M.-Ventec partnership — in part because they had not seen the specifics of the proposal.
Administration officials said Thursday that they were struggling to understand just how many ventilators the new venture could make.
The initial projection, one senior administration official said, was that after three weeks of preparation it could produce an initial run of 20,000 ventilators, or about two-thirds of what Gov. Andrew Cuomo of New York recently said his state alone needed to cover the influx of coronavirus patients expected in two weeks, if not sooner.
That number then shrank to 7,500 ventilators in the initial run, or maybe 5,000, an apparent recognition that auto transmissions and ventilators had very little in common. Those numbers are in flux and so are the Trump administration’s because the White House cannot decide how many ventilators it wants.
Targets have changed by the hour, officials said, as the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the Department of Health and Human Services, the Food and Drug Administration, which approves the use of medical devices, and the White House try to figure out how many ventilators to request and how much they should cost.
Those issues appeared to come to a head on Wednesday afternoon, when FEMA told the White House that it was premature to make a decision.



The $1.5 billion price tag comes to around $18,000 a ventilator. And the overall cost, by comparison, is roughly equal to buying 18 F-35s, the Pentagon’s most advanced fighter jet.
So on Wednesday, despite the president’s tweet three days earlier, FEMA was still weighing competing offers in order to make a recommendation to Mr. Kushner. And it seemed clear to several officials that the agency would have to select multiple manufacturers, in part to avoid the risk that one production line runs into technical troubles, or that its workers contract the very virus the ventilators are being built to defeat.

Defense Production Act could help amid coronavirus, even as President Trump resists: experts

President Donald Trump has resisted employing the Defense Production Act amid coronavirus, but experts say it could help.

abcnews.go.com

President Trump Says ‘We Don't Need’ The Defense Production Act As States Struggle With Supply Shortages

Senators, governors and over a hundred former national security officials are urging Trump to fully invoke the act.

www.forbes.com

 

[OreoRosies86]

Every single person I know who is a Trump supporter says “Well, he just talks off the cuff...”

How is that not an insanely irresponsible thing to do at a time like this?

 

[AGBF]

I understand your point of view, red, but I want to point out some things that I think matter.

Although the government does not, itself, manufacture PPEs, the government now has the power to order factories to do so and also has the power to act as a distribution center making sure that the manufactured essential items go where they are most needed and that states do no engage in price wars with each other for the essential items.

We need this centralization and coordination of efforts.

The government doesn't manufacture masks, ventilators, or anything else. They also don't order these things for hospitals unless it's the VA. No one was prepared for this. No one. If regulations are getting in the way of manufacturing then that is your government at work, long before Trump. He talks like an idiot and there will be things that our government screwed up but all the Trump hate for every little problem is totally irrational. And your talk of Trump voters is par for the course in HO these days. IMO HO looks like it's an intolerant liberal Trump hating hen party/kaffeeklatsch complete with Mother Superiors who rap the knuckles of any diversity of thought. I realize not everyone is like this but from another POV this is what it looks like. And people have a nerve telling me I'm not helpful.

There will be plenty to criticize when this is over.

 

[redwood66]

I understand your point of view, red, but I want to point out some things that I think matter.

Although the government does not, itself, manufacture PPEs, the government now has the power to order factories to do so and also has the power to act as a distribution center making sure that the manufactured essential items go where they are most needed and that states do no engage in price wars with each other for the essential items.

We need this centralization and coordination of efforts.

And I understand that POV completely because of this awful crisis. But know that my inherent mistrust of government making too much overreach in that arena makes me leery. Once power is taken it is not lightly given back. Coordination is definitely required so items get to those most in need. Hopefully there will be many lessons learned for future problems.

 

[voce]

@arkieb1 the part where you mention people writing their own narratives and fiction related to Trump? That's exactly what I mean by not discerning between fact and fiction. Belief is fiction, not fact, not knowledge. The phenomenon where people only remember the convenient things to support their own narratives, not the ones that disprove their own narratives, that's not discerning fact and fiction, and it's a universal tendency of the human mind.

I used "or" in my last post. A very intelligent and well educated person at my company at the beginning of the states' lockdown period was still citing the crude death rate of 4% instead of the death rate for closed cases, which was 8% and has since climbed to 16% worldwide, while the crude death rate hasn't changed by that much. If you use the crude death rate, you'll be grossly underestimating the real death toll of the disease. As more people progress to the later stages of the disease the death rate only climbs higher.

Thanks all who commented about the situation in Germany. I believe some of the same reasons, such as China not performing post mortem testing in Wuhan, is partially the reason the death rate is so low for China.

I actually agree with @redwood66 that to place the blame for every little thing that goes wrong on Trump is not right. There's a lot of it that's actually due to American bureaucracy, its inefficiency compared with other bureaucracies.

I'm trying to tune out most of the news where the mainstream media makes a riot of what Trump says or does. Their criticism is not helpful, and I'd rather hear reporting about success cases, what people are doing right, being disseminated, which is helpful, than complaints without actionable conclusions to be drawn, which is unhelpful. Liberals already know they should be voting against Trump in the general elections. Press the point too far, and they'll lose the independents.

 

[telephone89]

Canada sounds better and better every single day.

Trudeau said yesterday that Trump wants to put the military along the Canadian border - I guess to stop illegal border crossers? My husband and I agreed its more likely that americans will try to get into Canada for the free healthcare, not the other way around