what a joke and only can happen in this beloved country of ours...

[princesss]

Okay, I''ve been thinking about this all day, trying to articulate what I feel about all of this without my post becoming completely convoluted.

To me, it is worth it to support some people who abuse the system if it means that people who truly need the help can get it. It is not worth it to me to strand the people who need assistance in order to keep people from abusing the system. I am willing to see my tax dollars to go help both groups in order to ensure that people who need help get it.

This will probably be my last post in this thread, but I had to get that out there.

 

[beebrisk]

Wow..Last night when I was posting my little fingers off (until 3 AM !!), we were on page 2 or 3 here. I got up, went to work and came home to find 3 more pages.

It''s an interesting subject and sure has stirred up some passion on these pages. Tonight however, I need to get some sleep--So, I''ve decided I''m just gonna watch everyone duke it out amongst themselves this evening.

I just wanted to offer my own personal props and shout-outs to some of the people that consistantly make this forum so vibrant.

Dancing Fire: For being brave enough to hit ''submit'' on this post to begin with.

Haven: God bless you. I don''t know how you do what you do every day. What you deal with would make me sad and angry and I know for sure that I couldn''t do it. Godspeed.

Holly S. and Miranda: for going against the popular grain.

Traveling Gal: You really do call it as you see it.

This sure is an interesting group and although opinions vary widely (and wildly!) I''m sure we all feel each is appreciated.

So, in the spirit of a public forum: Have at it Y''all. Let the fur fly!!

I''ll check in around 6am, but for now I need some Zzzzz''s

 

[risingsun]

It''s been a long time since I worked for the Dept of Social Services. Does anyone know the amount a family of four or five would receive in assistance now? As I recall, people on AFDC were not receiving a whole lot of money. Let''s take a look at the facts before pointing fingers.

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 8/18/2008 6:58:28 PM
Author: Skippy123
What about Costco? they have great salmon and huge thing of precut fruit, yum!

Are you talking about the original Whole Foods, I was just there yesterday?

I have used Costco before--but we don''t have a membership, so if we can convince BF''s sister to take us, then we can go get stuff. We would probably get our own membership, except that we don''t have a freezer (they have those huge bags of frozen scallops-OMG- Yum!) and we can''t eat huge things of fruit/veggies fast enough, so it''d be a bit of a waste.

We''ve thought about it though!

I used to live in the apartments that are right behind Smiths/Walmart at Academy, and now we''re over at Girard and Indian School-so only a few blocks away from the Whole Foods at Indian School and Carlisle.

Do you go over to Whole Foods often Skippy? BF loves the Banana Bread they have at this one by us--I don''t think they have it over at the other one (but I have no idea because we haven''t been there in forever!)

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 8/18/2008 8:23:04 PM
Author: risingsun
It''s been a long time since I worked for the Dept of Social Services. Does anyone know the amount a family of four or five would receive in assistance now? As I recall, people on AFDC were not receiving a whole lot of money. Let''s take a look at the facts before pointing fingers.

http://www.dhs.state.il.us/page.aspx?item=30357
Not a lot.
But there is also wic on top of that for smaller children.

 

[risingsun]

Date: 8/18/2008 9:00:53 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 8/18/2008 8:23:04 PM
Author: risingsun
It''s been a long time since I worked for the Dept of Social Services. Does anyone know the amount a family of four or five would receive in assistance now? As I recall, people on AFDC were not receiving a whole lot of money. Let''s take a look at the facts before pointing fingers.

http://www.dhs.state.il.us/page.aspx?item=30357
Not a lot.
But there is also wic on top of that for smaller children.

Thanks, strm. This is very helpful to me--and I hope others. Did you see anything about the amount of the monthly welfare assistance in your research?

 

[iheartscience]

Below is copied and pasted from the website storm linked to. This is the number of people in a household and the maximum monthly benefit possible. (Therefore, if people make a certain amount of money, they qualify for less.)

Unit Size 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Max. Benefit $162 $298 $426 $542 $643 $772 $853 $975 $1,097 $1,219

ETA that I can't get the numbers to line up, but you can figure it out.

 

[ksinger]

Date: 8/17/2008 10:16:26 PM
Author: Haven

Date: 8/17/2008 9:24:35 PM
Author: miraclesrule
There will always be people who abuse something. But to lump any and all people into one category is naive and/or ignorant.

If there were such a thing as judgment day, wouldn''t it be a trip to find out that we were all going to be judged on how judgmental we were??

Ditto, Miracles. And I love that last line.

I''m sure I''m more sensitive to this type of gross generalization and stereotyping because I teach students who are on welfare and I see the negative effects of poverty on their lives every day, but seriously--have a little compassion.

And if you HAVE been there, and you still don''t have any compassion, then I suppose you and I are just cut from different cloth.

Poverty affects more than a person''s regular diet. If only that lobster dinner could act as a substitute for all of the opportunities that person''s children are missing out on in the rest of their lives, that would be a blessing.

I''m happy to contribute to public aid. I realize that all of the privileges I currently enjoy in my life are in direct proportion with the socioeconomic class to which I was born. If you think anyone can claw their way out of poverty with a little hard work and a lot of heart, think again. Do some people do it? Of course. But many more fail, and the things that hold them back go so far beyond educational opportunities and believing in yourself.

You are sitting behind a computer right now, hooked up to an Internet service. My guess is that you ate three meals today, or you at least had the opportunity to do so. The ''entitled, welfare queen'' rhetoric is so narrow-minded and holier-than-thou it makes me absolutely sick to read about it. If you want to see what it''s really like living in poverty, go work with the people who really get the biggest hit, the children. Teach in an impoverished school district. Get to know some kids. Listen to them talk about their dreams, and then watch them systematically become beaten down by a system in which all of the odds are against them. Work with them for an entire year, watch them change. Watch them go out into the real world and realize that all of the ''dream big!'' and ''you can do it!'' cheers the public school system has been feeding them are really meant for the middle class.

And then go back for a second year. And a third, etc. etc.

Then come back and talk about how entitled these abusers of welfare really are. Then tell me that poverty is really just a myth, that these are just people who are too lazy to work, or who LOVE the situation that they''re in. Please. I can''t wait to hear what you''ll have to say.

Miracles loves you and so do I. The stories I hear from my husband are exactly what you describe. Before a child ever hits the public school system, by the time they''re 5, it can be predicted with numbingly depressing regularity, who will graduate and go to college and who will fall through the cracks. And it pretty much all has to do with the class that you were born into. Truly jumping a socio-economic class is much much harder than the myth of "opportunity" would have it. I''d venture to say not many on this board have done it, at least not by only their own efforts. - Most everyone on this board is in the top 20% in this country, with at least a bachelor''s. We mostly all had parents who encouraged us, supported us, pushed us - who CARED. We were blessed to not be born into poverty. There but for the grace of God...

Back to reading the rest of the thread.

 

[Skippy123]

Date: 8/18/2008 8:55:38 PM
Author: FrekeChild

Date: 8/18/2008 6:58:28 PM
Author: Skippy123
What about Costco? they have great salmon and huge thing of precut fruit, yum!

Are you talking about the original Whole Foods, I was just there yesterday?

I have used Costco before--but we don''t have a membership, so if we can convince BF''s sister to take us, then we can go get stuff. We would probably get our own membership, except that we don''t have a freezer (they have those huge bags of frozen scallops-OMG- Yum!) and we can''t eat huge things of fruit/veggies fast enough, so it''d be a bit of a waste.

We''ve thought about it though!

I used to live in the apartments that are right behind Smiths/Walmart at Academy, and now we''re over at Girard and Indian School-so only a few blocks away from the Whole Foods at Indian School and Carlisle.

Do you go over to Whole Foods often Skippy? BF loves the Banana Bread they have at this one by us--I don''t think they have it over at the other one (but I have no idea because we haven''t been there in forever!)

The only things I buy from WF''s are chicken and beef, their Italian sausage, breads, cheese and some veggies; it isn''t far at all. I never looked for their Bbread; Christy Mae''s is the place for BBread and I use the lady and sons receipe to make mine! hehe

I am at Costco weekly. hehe I love Costco! Have his sis take ya! Oh, I eat all that fruit by myself. LOL

eta; thanks Storm for that info!!! Thanks Risingsun for asking about that; it is pretty shocking!

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 8/18/2008 9:31:43 PM
Author: thing2of2
Below is copied and pasted from the website storm linked to. This is the number of people in a household and the maximum monthly benefit possible. (Therefore, if people make a certain amount of money, they qualify for less.)


Unit Size 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

Max. Benefit $162 $298 $426 $542 $643 $772 $853 $975 $1,097 $1,219


ETA that I can't get the numbers to line up, but you can figure it out.

Just got an email back from a friend who is familiar with this.
He says that those amounts are roughly cut in 1/2 at just under the max earnings listed and fall off very quickly to that level.
Hardly anyone gets the full amount.
How well can you eat on $80 a month?

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 8/18/2008 11:11:46 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 8/18/2008 9:31:43 PM

Author: thing2of2

Below is copied and pasted from the website storm linked to. This is the number of people in a household and the maximum monthly benefit possible. (Therefore, if people make a certain amount of money, they qualify for less.)



Unit Size 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10


Max. Benefit $162 $298 $426 $542 $643 $772 $853 $975 $1,097 $1,219



ETA that I can't get the numbers to line up, but you can figure it out.

Just got an email back from a friend who is familiar with this.

He says that those amounts are roughly cut in 1/2 at just under the max earnings listed and fall off very quickly to that level.

Hardly anyone gets the full amount.

How well can you eat on $80 a month?

I completely agree-I don't think anyone can eat on $80 a month, let alone eat well.

 

[Skippy123]

Date: 8/18/2008 11:11:46 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 8/18/2008 9:31:43 PM
Author: thing2of2
Below is copied and pasted from the website storm linked to. This is the number of people in a household and the maximum monthly benefit possible. (Therefore, if people make a certain amount of money, they qualify for less.)


Unit Size 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

Max. Benefit $162 $298 $426 $542 $643 $772 $853 $975 $1,097 $1,219


ETA that I can''t get the numbers to line up, but you can figure it out.

Just got an email back from a friend who is familiar with this.
He says that those amounts are roughly cut in 1/2 at just under the max earnings listed and fall off very quickly to that level.
Hardly anyone gets the full amount.
How well can you eat on $80 a month?

Storm that is why I said it was shocking!!

 

[miraclesrule]

I can eat for that amount with weekly trips to the Farmer''s Market, but I couldn''t drink my wine for that amount.

 

[strmrdr]

now my 2c about the program,
I would double the benefit and tie it to COL then I would increase the max by 1.5 and tie it to inflation then I would put a 12 month out of 24 months limit unless someone was on SSI or had a valid medical reason why they could not work full time.
Illegal aliens do not qualify for any benefits.
I would also increase funding for day care.


I would set up a special investigation unit of the state police to track down and throw in jail those that commit fraud to obtain aid.

 

[risingsun]

Date: 8/18/2008 9:31:43 PM
Author: thing2of2
Below is copied and pasted from the website storm linked to. This is the number of people in a household and the maximum monthly benefit possible. (Therefore, if people make a certain amount of money, they qualify for less.)

Unit Size 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Max. Benefit $162 $298 $426 $542 $643 $772 $853 $975 $1,097 $1,219

ETA that I can't get the numbers to line up, but you can figure it out.

Thanks 2of2. People on public assistance are hardly making do with what they receive. Factor in the cost of chlild care when trying to find a job, you have the working poor who are often without insurance. This is the "undoing" of our country? I don't think so.

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 8/18/2008 11:51:02 PM
Author: risingsun

Date: 8/18/2008 9:31:43 PM

Author: thing2of2

Below is copied and pasted from the website storm linked to. This is the number of people in a household and the maximum monthly benefit possible. (Therefore, if people make a certain amount of money, they qualify for less.)


Unit Size 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

Max. Benefit $162 $298 $426 $542 $643 $772 $853 $975 $1,097 $1,219


ETA that I can''t get the numbers to line up, but you can figure it out.

Thanks 2of2. People on public assistance are hardly making do with what they receive. Factor in the cost of chlild care when trying to find a job, you have the working poor who are often without insurance. This is the ''undoing'' of our country? I don''t think so.

I completely agree with you.

 

[Anna0499]

Wow...this thread really has expanded to cover ALL things on which the government spends money. I just wanted to note that no one has said that families receive large amounts of foodstamps every month. I know that it is a relatively small amount, which makes buying expensive foods even more illogical, IMHO. My reaction to the OP was not out of any sense of illegality of the question asked or whatever ideas the man in the OP had, but out of my opinion that it is fiscally irresponsible to buy expensive food with their $100/month of foodstamps which could be used to buy much more. I guess if the man has no children the money might go further, but if he is not disabled, handicapped, etc. I would wonder why he would be receiving foodstamps in the first place (I don''t pay attention to what people buy at the grocery store because I am too busy to care, but I am looking at it in context of the OP''s post and government assistance as a whole).

I have enjoyed this thread & hope that people are able to read all the posts before posting to it, because I haven''t read a post that calls for the abolition of government financial assistance, nor one condemning all people who are on this assistance as abusers.

 

[akmiss]

The going price of lobster is down to $5.50 a pound according to another thread.

 

[krispi]

I''m sure that my background and experiences, like all of us, have certainly tainted my view. Some of those who have talked about their immigrant families reminded me of my own family, except that we were all (back to pre-Civil War, at least) born in America.

I was very close to my grandparents growing up; they were like second parents to me more than grandparents. They were very poor, but they were some of the happiest, most well-adjusted people I''ve ever met. Like some others have mentioned, my grandfather had a very strong work ethic. As the oldest of 11 children, he had to drop out of high school to support his family when my great-grandfather was injured in a farming accident. He never had a chance to get his diploma, so he didn''t have a wide range of job opportunites available to him, but I don''t think he let that hold him back. By the time I came along, he was a mechanic and worked every day well into his 70''s. My grandparents didn''t have a lot, but they were very proud of what they did have. They never would have accepted any type of government assistance; they didn''t believe in it. (Seriously, they would have come to live with us or something first, and they wouldn''t even do that when they were older and needed someone to care for them.) They taught me that you didn''t have to have the biggest house or the newest car to have a good life and be happy. That said, their 3 daughters did fare financially better in life than they did (if not emotionally). I would consider my parents to be typical middle-class. My mom did finish high school and has worked in an accounting position for many years. My brother and I both have college degrees and pretty good jobs - I''m in middle management, and he''s an engineer - both still in our 20''s. Based on my background, I don''t believe that being born poor necessarily means you have to stay that way. I do believe that if you have a good work ethic, you can be rewarded. You probably won''t ever be the richest person in the world, but it doesn''t mean that you have to have a victim mentality on the other hand.

The people I have personally known who were on welfare didn''t really need it. A friend of mine from high school was on WIC when her kids were younger because she didn''t want to work. She wanted to be a stay at home mom. My ex''s aunt would make up fake job interviews that she had gone on to keep drawing unemployment for the same reason. The worst case I''ve ever seen was my great uncle. Granted, that was a much different time back then, but my great-grandmother held him out of school because she didn''t think he needed to go. She wanted him to stay home and keep her company. She claimed he was too sickly to go to school, but I think that was just a self-fulfilling prophecy - he never had more health problems than anyone else his age who was a lifetime, chronic smoker. My great uncle never so much as learned to read and certainly never held a job. He existed his whole life off welfare. After a lifetime of enablers, he couldn''t really do much for himself at all. He needed someone to take care of him. (I seriously remember being a kid in elementarty school and trying to argue with him that the world really was round - he didn''t believe me.) If he had just gone to school like a normal kid or had to hold a job and support himself, I''m sure he could have amounted to a lot more.

I do believe very much in charity and have worked with lots of organizations over the years. It''s not that I don''t believe in helping the less fortunate; it''s just that I think our system is seriously flawed. I worry that we''re past "the point of no return" in fixing it too. Seriously, so many people out there these days have a victim mentality instead of taking ownership of their situation and doing something about it. That''s what bothers me! I don''t claim to have all the answers, but I do know there''s something wrong with the things we as a society have been trying. Someone earlier (Bizou sp??) mentioned depending more on the family unit than the government, and I think there''s a lot of merit to that. It''s very typical in a lot of other cultures too. I reading this thread and thinking about what I''d do if something bad like that ever happened to me. I''d move in with my parents, work 2 jobs if I had to, and get myself out of the bad times. I''ve done it before, and I know I could do it again. I know some people don''t have the luxury of a supportive family, and I don''t begrudge them public assistance whatsoever. I do think it should be a last resort and a temporary one though. It makes me so mad when people abuse the system because they are essentially taking money away from people who really need it. If welfare only went to those who were in true need, I can see one of two things (or both!) happening: 1. Those who need the money receive more of it, because there are less people they have to share it with, and are able to put that money to good use and get themselves into a better situation that much sooner and 2. Without having to support as many people, taxes could decrease and the money stays with those who have earned it to hopefully better their own situations.

 

[Richard Sherwood]

I used to buy all my pot with food stamps.

 

[Dee*Jay]

Date: 8/19/2008 7:20:42 PM
Author: Richard Sherwood
I used to buy all my pot with food stamps.

I hope you kept a couple to get snacks with when the munchies hit!

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 8/19/2008 7:20:42 PM
Author: Richard Sherwood
I used to buy all my pot with food stamps.

anything was legal back then.