what a joke and only can happen in this beloved country of ours...

[TravelingGal]

Date: 8/18/2008 2:32:38 PM
Author: fieryred33143

Date: 8/18/2008 2:26:10 PM
Author: meresal

Date: 8/18/2008 2:08:06 PM
Author: fieryred33143

Date: 8/18/2008 2:00:54 PM
Author: CrookedRock
Fiery, I don''t think anyone (and I know I didn''t), put down the people who genuinely need help such as Alicia''s Mother. Those people absolutely need help and should get help. It''s what the American spirit used to be all about... Helping one another.
I just wanted to point out that no one has put down those who are truly in need. It''s the abuse that bothers people, and one reason is bc it creates stereotypes.

That''s exactly right. Stereotypes. And its because of those stereotypes that everyone assumed this person asking if they could purchase a lobster with their assistance is abusing the system. This entire debate was because of the stereotype that DF lumped everyone into.

I think MC said it best a few pages ago. We are all debating over something when we have no idea what really happened and none of us were even there.

Fiery, I don''t mean to be a Bia, and I sure hope I don''t come off that way... but not everyone that posted in this thread said things like that and that may have been stereotypical. Many of us agreed with what MC said about not knowing the situation. We just didn''t post multiple paragraphs, that were as noticable.

Perhaps my use of ''everyone'' wasn''t accurate. I didn''t mean everyone. I always use the word ''everyone'' I need to check that

crown-I respect your thoughts as well and your ideas on how to contribute back were spot on. You''re right, not all will see eye to eye or even have to. But there are people, DF in particular, who refuse to see/respect other opinions and instead resort to ''

'' only when someone agrees with them. Beebrisk and I didn''t see eye to eye but I agreed with everything she (??) said as a response to my post because it was a thorough, legitimate, and honest argument.

Honestly, I doubt this whole ''lobster'' thing even happen

I think we''re way past talking about lobster guy, specifically. Just talking about the abuse of the system in general. And yeah, while we don''t know the specific''s of lobster guy''s situation, I think it''s fine to speculate and draw hypothetical conclusions...it''s interesting discussion anyway.

And about the whole "America, love it or leave it" type of sentiment, please. I love this country and will always be grateful to my father for bringing me here and for the opportunities America has for immigrants. Perhaps immigrants can be more critical of America because so many of us come in through the bottom and see things that many natives do not (if that makes sense). I would say the the vast majority of immigrants love their adopted country more than their native one (because, duh, there''s a reason why we left) but a lot of us don''t have that crazy nationalistic pride that so many natives do...but that doesn''t mean we aren''t proud to be an American. When we named our daughter using a combination of our home countries, I picked America, not Korea, because America is my home. Um, that and "Amelia" sounded a lot better than "Korelia."

We should have been on welfare when we first entered the country, but as an immigrant my father firmly felt that he should be a productive and contributing member of society and not mooch off his new country. It probably would have made our lives easier if he did take welfare! Like another poster said, I am all for welfare to assist, but I draw the line when it becomes a lifestyle where people work to stay ON welfare.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Date: 8/18/2008 11:37:22 AM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 8/17/2008 10:13:48 PM
Author: MC



this entire thread is annoying. Haven't you posted that you're supported by your wife???? Many times, I recall.

MC
do you really believe that ?

and do you also recall many times i said....wife and i have separate accounts ?

DF - you posted in your "who's who?" bio that in 2002-2003 you lost all your money in the stock market, so I concluded, based on that bit of information along with your numerous posts about being supported by your wife, that you were indeed supported by her. Glad to hear that is not the case! I guess that means you can enjoy lobster guilt free

 

[winternight]

It sounds like some people are upset because they personally cannot "afford" a lobster dinner. Unless you NEVER eat out that''s sort of a ridiculous statement. I don''t know how many times I read in this thread, ''oh poor me I pay taxes and I don''t want my tax money going to some welfare person because I can never afford lobster myself, poor me.'' I''ve seen lobster on sale for $9.99 a lb. This is not a bottle of $200 champagne people, it seems to be on par with some cuts of meat. Personally as a taxpayer who pays through the nose because I''m in a higher tax bracket I have more to worry about than lobster dinners for someone who qualifies for welfare. Have some compassion.

 

[vespergirl]

Date: 8/18/2008 3:44:17 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 8/18/2008 2:32:38 PM
Author: fieryred33143

Date: 8/18/2008 2:26:10 PM
Author: meresal

Date: 8/18/2008 2:08:06 PM
Author: fieryred33143

Date: 8/18/2008 2:00:54 PM
Author: CrookedRock
Fiery, I don''t think anyone (and I know I didn''t), put down the people who genuinely need help such as Alicia''s Mother. Those people absolutely need help and should get help. It''s what the American spirit used to be all about... Helping one another.
I just wanted to point out that no one has put down those who are truly in need. It''s the abuse that bothers people, and one reason is bc it creates stereotypes.

That''s exactly right. Stereotypes. And its because of those stereotypes that everyone assumed this person asking if they could purchase a lobster with their assistance is abusing the system. This entire debate was because of the stereotype that DF lumped everyone into.

I think MC said it best a few pages ago. We are all debating over something when we have no idea what really happened and none of us were even there.

Fiery, I don''t mean to be a Bia, and I sure hope I don''t come off that way... but not everyone that posted in this thread said things like that and that may have been stereotypical. Many of us agreed with what MC said about not knowing the situation. We just didn''t post multiple paragraphs, that were as noticable.

Perhaps my use of ''everyone'' wasn''t accurate. I didn''t mean everyone. I always use the word ''everyone'' I need to check that

crown-I respect your thoughts as well and your ideas on how to contribute back were spot on. You''re right, not all will see eye to eye or even have to. But there are people, DF in particular, who refuse to see/respect other opinions and instead resort to ''

'' only when someone agrees with them. Beebrisk and I didn''t see eye to eye but I agreed with everything she (??) said as a response to my post because it was a thorough, legitimate, and honest argument.

Honestly, I doubt this whole ''lobster'' thing even happen

I think we''re way past talking about lobster guy, specifically. Just talking about the abuse of the system in general. And yeah, while we don''t know the specific''s of lobster guy''s situation, I think it''s fine to speculate and draw hypothetical conclusions...it''s interesting discussion anyway.

And about the whole ''America, love it or leave it'' type of sentiment, please. I love this country and will always be grateful to my father for bringing me here and for the opportunities America has for immigrants. Perhaps immigrants can be more critical of America because so many of us come in through the bottom and see things that many natives do not (if that makes sense). I would say the the vast majority of immigrants love their adopted country more than their native one (because, duh, there''s a reason why we left) but a lot of us don''t have that crazy nationalistic pride that so many natives do...but that doesn''t mean we aren''t proud to be an American. When we named our daughter using a combination of our home countries, I picked America, not Korea, because America is my home. Um, that and ''Amelia'' sounded a lot better than ''Korelia.''

We should have been on welfare when we first entered the country, but as an immigrant my father firmly felt that he should be a productive and contributing member of society and not mooch off his new country. It probably would have made our lives easier if he did take welfare! Like another poster said, I am all for welfare to assist, but I draw the line when it becomes a lifestyle where people work to stay ON welfare.

TravelingGal, I totally agree with you - I think that immigrants and children of immigrants have a totally different perspective. My parents are immigrants from Eastern Euroope, and I was born in NYC. We would have starved before we would have taken a cent of government money, but we never had to, because my father worked his butt off, and so did my grandparents who came here with my parents. They had crappy jobs (a maid and a coat-check attendant), and my father was a shoe-shine boy, but they saved their money to send my dad to college finally, and he became a business man who earned well into the six figures. When he immigrated here, he was a teenager, who spoke no English, and they lived in Hell''s Kitchen, so it''s not like he had any advantages. In fact, he was less advantaged than the other poor children he went to high school with, because he didn''t speak any English yet. Many of his peers at the time were "generational poverty" people, who laughed at him for going to school, studying, learning the language, and working before & after school. Many of those people would never work that hard, or want to put in the hours he did, because their parents didn''t stress education, or trying to succeed - they just expected to go on welfare like their own parents, because they felt that they deserved entitlements, like America owed them something.

We were raised with a very strong work & education ethic, and I have to say, I see a lot of poor people who don''t seem that motivated to get a job - like working as a maid or a gardener is below them. I''m sure that my father & grandparents didn''t love doing that kind of work, but it filled them with pride to know that their hard work was providing educations and futures for their children and grandchildren. I think that many people who are living below the poverty line are there for a reason - lack of drive and education. At times that money was tight in my family, they just ate homemade pasta for weeks, or home-baked bread, because sometimes flour and salt was all they could afford. But, they didn''t stay poor, because if they wanted a better lifestyle, they knew they would have to work for it - welfare or food stamps were simply not an option in their minds. They saw America as a land of opportunity, and it is, for those who want to grab it.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 8/18/2008 1:47:30 PM
Author: fieryred33143
This entire thread makes me incredibly sad because to be 100% honest, most of you are talking out of where the sun doesn''t shine.

I am very glad that the majority of you have never had to experience any of this and I would never wish something like government assistance on any of you. I lost a lot of respect for people on here that were usually some of my very favorite posters with this thread.

You can get all political all you want. But when your kids are starving and you have to swallow your pride and ask for assistance, it doesn''t matter who the president is, whether you are a republican or democrat, or if there are millions of Welfare Queens in the world. You do what you have to do for your family.

fiery
i''m all for a welfare program in our country.some people do go through tough times,but don''t make a career out of it.when a welfare recipients popping out 1/2 dozen kids were an avg working couple can''t afford to,then IMO something is wrong with the system.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 8/18/2008 4:11:16 PM
Author: vespergirl

TravelingGal, I totally agree with you - I think that immigrants and children of immigrants have a totally different perspective. My parents are immigrants from Eastern Euroope, and I was born in NYC. We would have starved before we would have taken a cent of government money, but we never had to, because my father worked his butt off, and so did my grandparents who came here with my parents. They had crappy jobs (a maid and a coat-check attendant), and my father was a shoe-shine boy, but they saved their money to send my dad to college finally, and he became a business man who earned well into the six figures. When he immigrated here, he was a teenager, who spoke no English, and they lived in Hell''s Kitchen, so it''s not like he had any advantages. In fact, he was less advantaged than the other poor children he went to high school with, because he didn''t speak any English yet. Many of his peers at the time were ''generational poverty'' people, who laughed at him for going to school, studying, learning the language, and working before & after school. Many of those people would never work that hard, or want to put in the hours he did, because their parents didn''t stress education, or trying to succeed - they just expected to go on welfare like their own parents, because they felt that they deserved entitlements, like America owed them something.

We were raised with a very strong work & education ethic, and I have to say, I see a lot of poor people who don''t seem that motivated to get a job - like working as a maid or a gardener is below them. I''m sure that my father & grandparents didn''t love doing that kind of work, but it filled them with pride to know that their hard work was providing educations and futures for their children and grandchildren. I think that many people who are living below the poverty line are there for a reason - lack of drive and education. At times that money was tight in my family, they just ate homemade pasta for weeks, or home-baked bread, because sometimes flour and salt was all they could afford. But, they didn''t stay poor, because if they wanted a better lifestyle, they knew they would have to work for it - welfare or food stamps were simply not an option in their minds. They saw America as a land of opportunity, and it is, for those who want to grab it.

Ha, you''re opening a can of worms with that comment!

There are probably plenty of immigrants who use and abuse the system. I only know my views are colored by my experiences. When my father died 2 months ago, he had $112 dollars to his name. But he also left two grown children who are productive members of this society and I will always be proud of him for doing it all on his own.

 

[FrekeChild]

Ok. Now I''m weird and I''ll fully admit it, but when I had less than $100 a month to eat with...I would go about twice a month to Whole Foods and buy Salmon, Asparagus and a thing of precut fruit. And the rest of the month I''d live off of Saltines and whatever I could mooch off my parents. I decided that if I had no money I''d rather eat a couple of good meals a month instead of a whole month of Ramen noodles.

This also probably stemmed from going to culinary school...

So, if you guys see a girl in a grocery store trying to buy salmon, asparagus, whole wheat saltines and precut fruit with food stamps, that''s me. Come and say hi!

 

[Dancing Fire]

lunch time!!

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 8/18/2008 4:24:58 PM
Author: FrekeChild
Ok. Now I''m weird and I''ll fully admit it, but when I had less than $100 a month to eat with...I would go about twice a month to Whole Foods and buy Salmon, Asparagus and a thing of precut fruit. And the rest of the month I''d live off of Saltines and whatever I could mooch off my parents. I decided that if I had no money I''d rather eat a couple of good meals a month instead of a whole month of Ramen noodles.

This also probably stemmed from going to culinary school...

So, if you guys see a girl in a grocery store trying to buy salmon, asparagus, whole wheat saltines and precut fruit with food stamps, that''s me. Come and say hi!

Now that is just bloody irresponsible!!! You can get salmon, asparagus and precut fruit for far less at a regular supermarket!!!

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 8/18/2008 4:07:17 PM
Author: winternight
It sounds like some people are upset because they personally cannot 'afford' a lobster dinner. Unless you NEVER eat out that's sort of a ridiculous statement. I don't know how many times I read in this thread, 'oh poor me I pay taxes and I don't want my tax money going to some welfare person because I can never afford lobster myself, poor me.' I've seen lobster on sale for $9.99 a lb. This is not a bottle of $200 champagne people, it seems to be on par with some cuts of meat. Personally as a taxpayer who pays through the nose because I'm in a higher tax bracket I have more to worry about than lobster dinners for someone who qualifies for welfare. Have some compassion.

Actually, if you read more carefully, no one is upset because they don't eat lobster...posters have stated that given their own budget restraint when purchasing food, they didn't expect those earning even lower incomes to not do the same on someone else's dime. This is a valid concern when it is your own money going towards these government programs. Families who make just enough to be above the welfare cutoff but still live on a below average income can probably understand this sentiment best. Of course everyone has "more to worry about," but this thread was about an issue seen as an important topic to many people, so why can't it be discussed without people being accused of lacking compassion?

 

[Miranda]

Ya know, the problem is the system. I often wonder if social programs like welfare, social security (touched on in another thread by DF), disability, medical and medicare would be better run by an entity other than our government. Put in the hands of the private sector, I believe charities could do so much more good than our current system allows. There is no more accountability in the government offices running these programs than there is for the welfare recipient. I think we all agree that there is a need for aid in some cases. I think we all agree that there is a large abuse of that same aid. The problem is defining both and accountability for both. Through the grape vine I know of 4 people accepting disability benefits. All 4 of these people could be working at a job and are working under the table. Now, if they chose work legitimately they would make less than they do on government aid. This system we currently have is set up to keep people on welfare. Not to get them back on their feet. I do not think it is some kind of evil conspiracy, but, it has morphed into an out of control monster of entitlement.

I don''t know if this guy bought the lobster or not and frankly it is splitting hairs to analyze that. All those who suggested it was a special occasion or he brought it to his dying mother, etc. are correct. We do not know the situation. I personally, try to be an optimist. When there is a crazy driver speeding I tell the kids he (or she) must be on the way to the E.R. to be driving like that. I know that they are probably not, though.

In situations like this I wish I had the gentle sweet nature of our beloved Skippy! Most of us do make judgments. It is how we decide in our own minds what is right and what is wrong by our own standards. Should we? Judgments control our actions so I don''t know that they''re bad.


I think the heart of what is bothering people is that we''ve all been in situations where we know of or have heard of this type of system abuse. The lobster situation is a metaphor for that. I know it doesn''t bother some people, but, to me it is incredibly irresponsible to buy lobster while you are accepting food stamps. We all make our dollar stretch when we need to. The same social norm should apply to all citizens.

 

[wishful]

Date: 8/18/2008 1:00:57 AM
Author: HollyS

There is affordable birth control for unmarried mothers having baby after baby, almost all of them by different fathers . . . .it''s called keeping one''s panties on. Or, do you have some silly argument that sex is their right and privilege, too? How about they forgo their right and privilege of sexual expression and try a little self esteem and self control instead? AND do what is right for the children they already have. Hmmmm?

We are NOT talking about ordinary families having difficulties here; or loving mothers doting on the children they bring into the world.

And lobster is not a ''new and different'' food to try. If you don''t live where it''s fresh and plentiful, it''s expensive. And a stupid choice for someone on ''assistance''.

DITTO, THRITTO, QUADRITTO! You said it woman!

 

[Shoopy]

Date: 8/18/2008 4:12:59 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 8/18/2008 1:47:30 PM
Author: fieryred33143
This entire thread makes me incredibly sad because to be 100% honest, most of you are talking out of where the sun doesn''t shine.

I am very glad that the majority of you have never had to experience any of this and I would never wish something like government assistance on any of you. I lost a lot of respect for people on here that were usually some of my very favorite posters with this thread.

You can get all political all you want. But when your kids are starving and you have to swallow your pride and ask for assistance, it doesn''t matter who the president is, whether you are a republican or democrat, or if there are millions of Welfare Queens in the world. You do what you have to do for your family.

fiery
i''m all for a welfare program in our country.some people do go through tough times,but don''t make a career out of it.when a welfare recipients popping out 1/2 dozen kids were an avg working couple can''t afford to,then IMO something is wrong with the system.

DF

I give you a

cause I agree with that statement wholeheartedly.

 

[wishful]

Date: 8/18/2008 2:08:38 AM
Author: beebrisk

Date: 8/18/2008 1:25:12 AM
Author: fieryred33143
Well bee, next time you are at the checkout counter and making your decisions of what to buy versus what not to buy, look around you and see if anyone is paying attention to your cart or even cares. As opposed to those families on assistance that have an entire store of people looking and pointing when they decide that this week they’re going to splurge on Kellogg’s cereal instead of the $1 bag of cereal…you know as a little treat for the kids. Or that they’re going to get the deli cheese for the first week of school instead of the gov’t cheese. Or that *God forbid* they’re going to treat their family to a nice meal instead of the usual rice/beans/chicken meal.

There''s a young woman that works for my company. She is 26 years old. She has 3 out-of-wedlock children. There are 2 daddies. One of those daddies is in jail.

She receives Section 8 (subsidized) housing and food stamps and will not work more than 30 hours per week for fear that her benefits will be taken away (such is the genius of the system).

In the meantime, every day at lunch she runs out to smoke several cigarettes. I live in NY where cigarettes are now close to $10/pack. She also spends a great deal of time typing away on her TMobile Sidekick.

And you know what? It makes me angry. Very angry on many levels.

She has three fatherless children. She will not work longer hours because the government will stop her entitlements.

She is taking food out of her own kids mouths by buying cigarettes!!! This should make anyone angry. And it should make you angry too, because you are paying for it. Over and over again.

The welfare system has been in place over 50 years and look at us! Nothing has changed. In fact, it''s worse!

Welfare was meant to be a ''leg up'', not a lifestyle!

If welfare worked to end the cycle then I''d be all for it. But history has shown that it doesn''t. 40+ years and several generations later we are still in the same boat.

I work over 40 hours a week, but I only get paid starting on Wednesday morning. From Monday morning until then, any money I''ve made goes to the government in taxes. When I see someone making foolish choices that hurts her own children, and I am paying for many of those choices, I have the right as a citizen of this great country to get angry.

If you cannot afford children, don''t have them. If you can''t afford lobster, don''t eat it. If you can''t be responsible don''t ask me to pay for it.

PS- I love lobster. I can''t afford it. I don''t buy it.

Totally 100% agree.

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 8/18/2008 4:27:28 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 8/18/2008 4:24:58 PM
Author: FrekeChild
Ok. Now I''m weird and I''ll fully admit it, but when I had less than $100 a month to eat with...I would go about twice a month to Whole Foods and buy Salmon, Asparagus and a thing of precut fruit. And the rest of the month I''d live off of Saltines and whatever I could mooch off my parents. I decided that if I had no money I''d rather eat a couple of good meals a month instead of a whole month of Ramen noodles.

This also probably stemmed from going to culinary school...

So, if you guys see a girl in a grocery store trying to buy salmon, asparagus, whole wheat saltines and precut fruit with food stamps, that''s me. Come and say hi!

Now that is just bloody irresponsible!!! You can get salmon, asparagus and precut fruit for far less at a regular supermarket!!!

Oh I tried TGal! Once I went to Smiths, and paid $5 for a 1/2 pound salmon tranch, got asparagus and lemons as well-got it home, cut open the salmon packaging--and the salmon had gone bad. Like, rotten, instant gag reflex bad.

Because of that I got really really picky, and only buy salmon that''s fresh (mind you we''re talking the $11.99 per pound salmon instead of the $19.99 per pound salmon at Whole Foods), and I smell it thoroughly before cooking it. This was when Smith''s was literally a 5 minute walk from my apartment, and Whole Foods was across a busy intersection. Now Whole Foods is about 2 blocks away, and Smith''s is a few miles away, and if gas starts going up again, Whole Foods starts to look like a bargain!

Dude. I''m so weird.

 

[Efe]

The system is broken because we, the people, are broken. This is a personal story but I think very relevant. Several years ago, my husband met a homeless guy living in the park in DC. After having passed by every day for months, the guy finally started responding to my husband''s hellos. My husband started bringing him food and clothing. More time went by and he finally asked my husband to help him get off the street. We spent hours on end trying to get him the services and the help he needed, but he didn''t have any id, or any way to get necessary documentation. We finally managed to get him into subsidized housing, but he was not well enough to maintain a job, even if he could get one. So, we had this formerly homeless person, in limbo, with no support. Finally, my husband and I just looked at each other one day and realized how blessed we are and decided that we would support him as long as he needed help. We have done this for more than 2 years now and are commited to taking care of him possibly for the rest of his life.

What we realized is that you can work with the system, fight the system, rail again the system, or you could actually do something to help out another human being. We have come to love this gentlemen. We are from different cultures and different races, but we are now family.

 

[Miranda]

Date: 8/18/2008 4:07:17 PM
Author: winternight
It sounds like some people are upset because they personally cannot ''afford'' a lobster dinner. Unless you NEVER eat out that''s sort of a ridiculous statement. I don''t know how many times I read in this thread, ''oh poor me I pay taxes and I don''t want my tax money going to some welfare person because I can never afford lobster myself, poor me.'' I''ve seen lobster on sale for $9.99 a lb. This is not a bottle of $200 champagne people, it seems to be on par with some cuts of meat. Personally as a taxpayer who pays through the nose because I''m in a higher tax bracket I have more to worry about than lobster dinners for someone who qualifies for welfare. Have some compassion.

Good quality 10% fat ground beef is $2 or $3 a pound. Lobster is not anywhere near on par with affordable, nutritious cuts of meat. You say compassion, I say enabling.

 

[Miranda]

Date: 8/18/2008 4:52:00 PM
Author: BizouMom
The system is broken because we, the people, are broken. This is a personal story but I think very relevant. Several years ago, my husband met a homeless guy living in the park in DC. After having passed by every day for months, the guy finally started responding to my husband''s hellos. My husband started bringing him food and clothing. More time went by and he finally asked my husband to help him get off the street. We spent hours on end trying to get him the services and the help he needed, but he didn''t have any id, or any way to get necessary documentation. We finally managed to get him into subsidized housing, but he was not well enough to maintain a job, even if he could get one. So, we had this formerly homeless person, in limbo, with no support. Finally, my husband and I just looked at each other one day and realized how blessed we are and decided that we would support him as long as he needed help. We have done this for more than 2 years now and are commited to taking care of him possibly for the rest of his life.

What we realized is that you can work with the system, fight the system, rail again the system, or you could actually do something to help out another human being. We have come to love this gentlemen. We are from different cultures and different races, but we are now family.

What a touching story!

 

[FrekeChild]

Ditto to Miranda. I think what you and your husband are doing is incredibly admirable BizouMom!

 

[meresal]

Date: 8/18/2008 4:52:00 PM
Author: BizouMom
The system is broken because we, the people, are broken. This is a personal story but I think very relevant. Several years ago, my husband met a homeless guy living in the park in DC. After having passed by every day for months, the guy finally started responding to my husband's hellos. My husband started bringing him food and clothing. More time went by and he finally asked my husband to help him get off the street. We spent hours on end trying to get him the services and the help he needed, but he didn't have any id, or any way to get necessary documentation. We finally managed to get him into subsidized housing, but he was not well enough to maintain a job, even if he could get one. So, we had this formerly homeless person, in limbo, with no support. Finally, my husband and I just looked at each other one day and realized how blessed we are and decided that we would support him as long as he needed help. We have done this for more than 2 years now and are commited to taking care of him possibly for the rest of his life.

What we realized is that you can work with the system, fight the system, rail again the system, or you could actually do something to help out another human being. We have come to love this gentlemen. We are from different cultures and different races, but we are now family.

This is indeed a very touching story and extremely commendable... however, I hope you aren't considering the peoeple in our country broken, because we aren't willing to pick a homeless person off the street and take them under our wing? Am I reaching with this one... I guess it hit a little close to my heart, because there is a person that I buy lunch for when I see him, but there is NO WAY I could offer to financially fund him.

ETA: There are many of us that do as much as we can, but I don't think it makes us broken becuase we can't go above and beyond. I wasn't around before my own generation so I can't speak for how people used to be... but maybe no one is actually "broken", but infact the circumstances have changed and people weren't in the position to make these kind of choices before.

 

[Loves Vintage]

Date: 8/18/2008 4:52:00 PM
Author: BizouMom
The system is broken because we, the people, are broken. This is a personal story but I think very relevant. Several years ago, my husband met a homeless guy living in the park in DC. After having passed by every day for months, the guy finally started responding to my husband''s hellos. My husband started bringing him food and clothing. More time went by and he finally asked my husband to help him get off the street. We spent hours on end trying to get him the services and the help he needed, but he didn''t have any id, or any way to get necessary documentation. We finally managed to get him into subsidized housing, but he was not well enough to maintain a job, even if he could get one. So, we had this formerly homeless person, in limbo, with no support. Finally, my husband and I just looked at each other one day and realized how blessed we are and decided that we would support him as long as he needed help. We have done this for more than 2 years now and are commited to taking care of him possibly for the rest of his life.

What we realized is that you can work with the system, fight the system, rail again the system, or you could actually do something to help out another human being. We have come to love this gentlemen. We are from different cultures and different races, but we are now family.

Wow, BizouMom! I have never heard of anyone doing something like that before. How wonderful of you and your husband to reach out and help a stranger in this way. Your post is the best thing to come out of this thread! It makes me smile that there are people as kind and caring as you and your husband.

 

[littlelysser]

Date: 8/18/2008 4:52:00 PM
Author: BizouMom
The system is broken because we, the people, are broken. This is a personal story but I think very relevant. Several years ago, my husband met a homeless guy living in the park in DC. After having passed by every day for months, the guy finally started responding to my husband's hellos. My husband started bringing him food and clothing. More time went by and he finally asked my husband to help him get off the street. We spent hours on end trying to get him the services and the help he needed, but he didn't have any id, or any way to get necessary documentation. We finally managed to get him into subsidized housing, but he was not well enough to maintain a job, even if he could get one. So, we had this formerly homeless person, in limbo, with no support. Finally, my husband and I just looked at each other one day and realized how blessed we are and decided that we would support him as long as he needed help. We have done this for more than 2 years now and are commited to taking care of him possibly for the rest of his life.


What we realized is that you can work with the system, fight the system, rail again the system, or you could actually do something to help out another human being. We have come to love this gentlemen. We are from different cultures and different races, but we are now family.

Amazing.

THAT is how you make a change.

Much more efficient and positive than just coming online and griping about perceived injustices...

 

[Skippy123]

Date: 8/18/2008 4:54:41 PM
Author: Miranda

Date: 8/18/2008 4:52:00 PM
Author: BizouMom
The system is broken because we, the people, are broken. This is a personal story but I think very relevant. Several years ago, my husband met a homeless guy living in the park in DC. After having passed by every day for months, the guy finally started responding to my husband''s hellos. My husband started bringing him food and clothing. More time went by and he finally asked my husband to help him get off the street. We spent hours on end trying to get him the services and the help he needed, but he didn''t have any id, or any way to get necessary documentation. We finally managed to get him into subsidized housing, but he was not well enough to maintain a job, even if he could get one. So, we had this formerly homeless person, in limbo, with no support. Finally, my husband and I just looked at each other one day and realized how blessed we are and decided that we would support him as long as he needed help. We have done this for more than 2 years now and are commited to taking care of him possibly for the rest of his life.

What we realized is that you can work with the system, fight the system, rail again the system, or you could actually do something to help out another human being. We have come to love this gentlemen. We are from different cultures and different races, but we are now family.

What a touching story!

Wow, that is very admirable of you and your hubby BizouMom!

 

[Tuckins1]

I just want to say that I know this is a sensitive subject for some, so this is not meant to hurt or be judgmental. I know that many people who are on government assistance programs are truly in a hard situation and need help. That is fine and I as a tax payer am glad to help. However, I have personally known quite a few people who do abuse the system. They do not work or go to school, they are not disabled in any way and have no reason that they cannot work other than sheer laziness. (My neighbors are a prime example... They are proud of it!!!) Government assistance is supposed to be a temporary fix to help families/individuals in a bad situation. It's not supposed to be long term unless a person is disabled or otherwise unable to work. I think that spending your government money on things such as lobster (as in this case) is wasteful... That money could be used for other things like more food, or put away to go towards education or something. I don't judge, and I can only comment on what I have seen personally. Just my .02

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 8/18/2008 3:44:17 PM
Author: TravelingGal


I think we're way past talking about lobster guy, specifically. Just talking about the abuse of the system in general. And yeah, while we don't know the specific's of lobster guy's situation, I think it's fine to speculate and draw hypothetical conclusions...it's interesting discussion anyway.

And about the whole 'America, love it or leave it' type of sentiment, please. I love this country and will always be grateful to my father for bringing me here and for the opportunities America has for immigrants. Perhaps immigrants can be more critical of America because so many of us come in through the bottom and see things that many natives do not (if that makes sense). I would say the the vast majority of immigrants love their adopted country more than their native one (because, duh, there's a reason why we left) but a lot of us don't have that crazy nationalistic pride that so many natives do...but that doesn't mean we aren't proud to be an American. When we named our daughter using a combination of our home countries, I picked America, not Korea, because America is my home. Um, that and 'Amelia' sounded a lot better than 'Korelia.'

We should have been on welfare when we first entered the country, but as an immigrant my father firmly felt that he should be a productive and contributing member of society and not mooch off his new country. It probably would have made our lives easier if he did take welfare! Like another poster said, I am all for welfare to assist, but I draw the line when it becomes a lifestyle where people work to stay ON welfare.

TG
yep!! you took the words right out of my mouth

 

[Skippy123]

Date: 8/18/2008 4:24:58 PM
Author: FrekeChild
Ok. Now I''m weird and I''ll fully admit it, but when I had less than $100 a month to eat with...I would go about twice a month to Whole Foods and buy Salmon, Asparagus and a thing of precut fruit. And the rest of the month I''d live off of Saltines and whatever I could mooch off my parents. I decided that if I had no money I''d rather eat a couple of good meals a month instead of a whole month of Ramen noodles.

This also probably stemmed from going to culinary school...

So, if you guys see a girl in a grocery store trying to buy salmon, asparagus, whole wheat saltines and precut fruit with food stamps, that''s me. Come and say hi!

What about Costco? they have great salmon and huge thing of precut fruit, yum!

Are you talking about the original Whole Foods, I was just there yesterday?

 

[luckystar112]

I''m so late. lol.

Bizou amazing story....I wish there were more people like you out there!

Now for my opinion...

In regards to abusing the system. I''ve been around it all my life. Growing up with a single mom, we were forced to live in a not-so-beautiful neighborhood in subsidized housing. My best friend''s mother had four kids with four different men. In fact, it was almost normal for my friends'' siblings to only be half siblings. My mother went on food stamps for a short period (this was pre 1996 so I don''t think she was required to work) and worked a full time job where she was paid under the counter. She would frequently trade out her food stamps for cash. I could make excuses for why she did it, but my guess is that 1) She was embarassed to be carrying around the food stamps, although I reluctantly stood in line with her and saw her use them, something I found extremely MORTIFYING growing up. and/or 2) She just figured out that it was an easy way to get cash for doing nothing.
Now don''t get me wrong, I had a great childhood and I love my mom, but I just remember that my clothes were hand me downs from my cousins, whereas my mom had suede dresses and boots, and a brand new car. Something was wrong here. I really resented it for a long time, even after we got out of that struggle and moved to a nice area and got nicer things (from my mom getting a new job).

Maine has a very generous (perhaps too generous) program called Maine Care. It appears that if you get pregnant, you get Maine Care. That''s it. If they have any restrictions I haven''t seen them.

I know a girl who is married and living in her father''s house with her husband (they all work!) and they recieve Main Care. Yet, she get her hair and nails done every week, and buys a new outfit to go out to the clubs. I''ve never seen that girl wear an outfit twice. Why the hell is she receiving assistance? My cousins, some friends, it appears that every person I know abuses this system. I can''t for the life of me figure out why no one has complained yet.

After Hurricane Katrina I witnessed lots of abuse of the system. Living in Houston, I personally saw victims using their Government issued debit cards to buy frivolous items. A lot of people from New Orleans have started their lives over and are working toward a goal. However, there are plenty who plan on riding that gravy train to the last stop. But we''re supposed to feel bad for them because they were victims three years ago. I don''t. Sorry. These are the people who abused the system in New Orleans as well. They came here with nothing and will do nothing to get their lives on track, as long as they don''t have to. They put frivolous items on their debit cards because they had never had that much money in their hands before.

But to me, the worst abusers, and by far the most vile...are those that foster parent for profit. I''ve met multiple families that do this. Gives all foster parents a bad name!

So I doubt that this lobster story is made up. I see stuff like this all the time.
Think about it....what is easier for you to do as a single mom--get a job and put your kid in daycare at $600 a month, or have another kid and double your assistance? It is very hard to not be aware or birth control methods this day and age. It isn''t a lack of education, it''s carelessness. Geez, I could keep going for hours, but I just remember reading this article in Time about a guy from NY who gave like 12 girls AIDS. Apparently they were told about their condition, forced to see counselors, educated on how to prevent spreading it...and something like four had already gotten pregnant, most admitted to continuing to have unprotected sex....etc. It''s just ridiculous.

 

[katamari]

Here is a link where everyone can go and learn about our welfare system link

There is so much speculation about things that are illegal under TANF (from both 'camps'). I personally am too invested in this issue, so I am choosing to not to respond with my my own thoughts. But, I would encourage people to learn about policies before thy choose whether or not they support them.

ETA: Education should span far beyond personal experience, in my opinion, because we all have different experiences.

 

[Efe]

Date: 8/18/2008 4:58:08 PM
Author: meresal

This is indeed a very touching story and extremely commendable... however, I hope you aren''t considering the peoeple in our country broken, because we aren''t willing to pick a homeless person off the street and take them under our wing? Am I reaching with this one... I guess it hit a little close to my heart, because there is a person that I buy lunch for when I see him, but there is NO WAY I could offer to financially fund him.

ETA: There are many of us that do as much as we can, but I don''t think it makes us broken becuase we can''t go above and beyond. I wasn''t around before my own generation so I can''t speak for how people used to be... but maybe no one is actually ''broken'', but infact the circumstances have changed and people weren''t in the position to make these kind of choices before.

Of course not. I believe that people should do whatever their heart leads them to do. Buying someone lunch whenever you see them is certainly doing something as far as I am concerned. My broken people comment is more from a spiritual/family perspective. In my parents'' generation, people lived either with or close to their families and were taken care of in time of need by their families, or by their churches, and during the depression, by the community as a whole. Now, family members can be scattered all over the world and that community dynamic is sometimes no more.

 

[coatimundi_org]

Date: 8/18/2008 9:38:23 AM
Author: thing2of2
All this talk about tax dollars got me thinking about how much money is being spent on the Iraq war. I did a little poking around and it looks like most estimates say about $300 million a DAY is spent on the Iraq war. Estimates also say we''ve spent almost $1 TRILLION so far. What welfare recipients do with their food stamps is the least of my worries when it comes to misuse of taxpayer dollars.


This country is in the crapper and all people are worried about is ''welfare queens'' popping out kids and buying lobster for dinner? Hilarious.

Yah Thing2o''2!

Just to add:

Why did Halliburton move their headquarters to Dubai? So they don''t have to pay taxes--that''s why!

Who''s paying for the bail out of Bear Stearns? We are! Why? Because the government gave them WELFARE.

Lobster anyone? Will be served at the Republican and Democratic National Conventions this year, courtesy of Exxon Mobil, one of the largest recipients of government handouts-no matter how you slice it.