what a joke and only can happen in this beloved country of ours...

[Anna0499]

Date: 8/18/2008 12:32:16 AM
Author: miraclesrule
Yeah, if I had the choice to react with disdain OR offer to buy the person enough lobster to feed their family a lobster dinner,

I would choose the latter every time. If I ever become the former, I would rather not exist.

Of course, I would also strike up a conversation to learn their story.

True, but the choice I see is between paying a person for a half cart of groceries that could feed their family for a week vs. a few lobsters that will feed them for one meal. Given those choices I would choose the former everytime.

Is it my business what is in another's shopping cart when I am paying for part of it? If not, then why are tobacco and alcohol prohibited? I'm not trying to sound like a b*tch, but I think a line has to be drawn somewhere. To me, it's not about being politically correct (?), but about being fiscally responsible. I really don't get why those of us who had a problem with foodstamp lobster were labelled as not caring about disadvantaged people & unknowledgeable about their everyday lives (an assumption in itself)...there is such a thing as responsible decision-making, especially when children are involved. Personally, I would rather my tax dollars go towards bread and luncheon meat than lobster...does that make me a bad person?

ETA: I think that weekend backpack food program is wonderful. I actually have worked with several inner city children through my law school's Teen Court program to keep misled juveniles out of the criminal justice system if possible. I love any program that helps children in ways other than simply giving them money.

 

[Elmorton]

After working with people who have grown up in poverty and raised themselves from their bootstraps so they can go to college, let me tell you that I''m perfectly happy to have my taxes raised because yes, the money is needed more for them than it is my future children.

The line in Haven''s post that got to me was "I realize that all of the privileges I currently enjoy in my life are in direct proportion with the socioeconomic class to which I was born." If only more people truly could understand this. In fact, I never truly understood until I had to answer questions from my students about how I''m 25 and teaching in a college classroom. The truth is that I''m there because my parents, my grandparents, and their parents paved the way - it really has very little to do with the work on my part. The effort I put forth in school is basically the smallest piece of the puzzle that got me to where I am today. Poverty works on the same cycle. People really don''t have much of a choice about their future when you really look at it.

And, I suppose if we really want to get into some nice slippery slope arguments, I could say that we could vote for McCain if we want to adopt India''s caste system.

In regard to women having children they can''t afford - if my middle-class, graduate-educated friends and I are having a hard time finding affordable birth control, I''d imagine that impoverished people have an even harder time procuring it. Perhaps if birth control was a more affordable option than having a child, we''d have less unwanted pregnancies in this country. I find it disgusting that the same people who complain about young, poor women having too many children are the same who complain about planned parenthood and sex education in schools. Every child deserves to be born into arms where she or he is loved and cared for - and affordable birth control is a step in that direction.

In regard to the original question about lobster - why shouldn''t a person or family on assistance be able to get it? It''s not crack or booze or even really ALL that bad for you. It''s a natural food. DH and I have scraped by in the past few months, but one thing we never sacrificed was having good food because we valued it. We valued meals together and we wanted to learn to make restaurant quality meals without going out. I''m really proud of what we did. So if lobster fits in a family''s budget on government assistance, so be it. I actually think that it''s AWESOME that a family would be able to try new and different foods while on government assistance, and I''d be glad for my tax money to go for that.

 

[beebrisk]

Date: 8/18/2008 12:32:16 AM
Author: miraclesrule
Yeah, if I had the choice to react with disdain OR offer to buy the person enough lobster to feed their family a lobster dinner,


I would choose the latter every time. If I ever become the former, I would rather not exist.

Do some posters here actually believe that there are others who would begrudge someone having food on their table?

I understand the point the OP was trying to make so I guess that makes me someone who actually enjoys seeing children go hungry.

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 8/18/2008 12:41:59 AM
Author: Elmorton
After working with people who have grown up in poverty and raised themselves from their bootstraps so they can go to college, let me tell you that I'm perfectly happy to have my taxes raised because yes, the money is needed more for them than it is my future children.

The line in Haven's post that got to me was 'I realize that all of the privileges I currently enjoy in my life are in direct proportion with the socioeconomic class to which I was born.' If only more people truly could understand this. In fact, I never truly understood until I had to answer questions from my students about how I'm 25 and teaching in a college classroom. The truth is that I'm there because my parents, my grandparents, and their parents paved the way - it really has very little to do with the work on my part. The effort I put forth in school is basically the smallest piece of the puzzle that got me to where I am today. Poverty works on the same cycle. People really don't have much of a choice about their future when you really look at it.

And, I suppose if we really want to get into some nice slippery slope arguments, I could say that we could vote for McCain if we want to adopt India's caste system.

In regard to women having children they can't afford - if my middle-class, graduate-educated friends and I are having a hard time finding affordable birth control, I'd imagine that impoverished people have an even harder time procuring it. Perhaps if birth control was a more affordable option than having a child, we'd have less unwanted pregnancies in this country. I find it disgusting that the same people who complain about young, poor women having too many children are the same who complain about planned parenthood and sex education in schools. Every child deserves to be born into arms where she or he is loved and cared for - and affordable birth control is a step in that direction.

In regard to the original question about lobster - why shouldn't a person or family on assistance be able to get it? It's not crack or booze or even really ALL that bad for you. It's a natural food. DH and I have scraped by in the past few months, but one thing we never sacrificed was having good food because we valued it. We valued meals together and we wanted to learn to make restaurant quality meals without going out. I'm really proud of what we did. So if lobster fits in a family's budget on government assistance, so be it. I actually think that it's AWESOME that a family would be able to try new and different foods while on government assistance, and I'd be glad for my tax money to go for that.

I know what you are trying to say, but I have to say I think the bolded part is a HUGE assumption on your part. I did want to add that I know Planned Parenthood offers BC at under $25/month for low-income families & even college students who just don't want their parents' insurance finding out about them.

ETA: I also think that the cycle of lower socioeconomic families would prove in itself that the welfare system needs work...

 

[beebrisk]

Date: 8/18/2008 12:41:59 AM
Author: Elmorton
After working with people who have grown up in poverty and raised themselves from their bootstraps so they can go to college, let me tell you that I''m perfectly happy to have my taxes raised because yes, the money is needed more for them than it is my future children.


The line in Haven''s post that got to me was ''I realize that all of the privileges I currently enjoy in my life are in direct proportion with the socioeconomic class to which I was born.'' If only more people truly could understand this. In fact, I never truly understood until I had to answer questions from my students about how I''m 25 and teaching in a college classroom. The truth is that I''m there because my parents, my grandparents, and their parents paved the way - it really has very little to do with the work on my part. The effort I put forth in school is basically the smallest piece of the puzzle that got me to where I am today. Poverty works on the same cycle. People really don''t have much of a choice about their future when you really look at it.


And, I suppose if we really want to get into some nice slippery slope arguments, I could say that we could vote for McCain if we want to adopt India''s caste system.


In regard to women having children they can''t afford - if my middle-class, graduate-educated friends and I are having a hard time finding affordable birth control, I''d imagine that impoverished people have an even harder time procuring it. Perhaps if birth control was a more affordable option than having a child, we''d have less unwanted pregnancies in this country. I find it disgusting that the same people who complain about young, poor women having too many children are the same who complain about planned parenthood and sex education in schools. Every child deserves to be born into arms where she or he is loved and cared for - and affordable birth control is a step in that direction.


In regard to the original question about lobster - why shouldn''t a person or family on assistance be able to get it? It''s not crack or booze or even really ALL that bad for you. It''s a natural food. DH and I have scraped by in the past few months, but one thing we never sacrificed was having good food because we valued it. We valued meals together and we wanted to learn to make restaurant quality meals without going out. I''m really proud of what we did. So if lobster fits in a family''s budget on government assistance, so be it. I actually think that it''s AWESOME that a family would be able to try new and different foods while on government assistance, and I''d be glad for my tax money to go for that.

By all means, if you wish to increase your taxes because you don''t need the money, then why not write a check?

If you want to help and you have the means, there are charities (ironically tax deductible) you can contribute to that will go directly to those that need your help. That way you can at least be sure that your dollars are in fact going to someone who needs it.

Instead, the ''liberal/socialist'' view is to have the government "take" the money from everyone (even those who aren''t as well off as you) and in their infinite wisdom, decide who it goes to.

And "India''s caste system"?? Are you kidding me??

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 8/17/2008 10:16:26 PM
Author: Haven

Poverty affects more than a person''s regular diet. If only that lobster dinner could act as a substitute for all of the opportunities that person''s children are missing out on in the rest of their lives, that would be a blessing.

And then go back for a second year. And a third, etc. etc.

Then come back and talk about how entitled these abusers of welfare really are. Then tell me that poverty is really just a myth, that these are just people who are too lazy to work, or who LOVE the situation that they''re in. Please. I can''t wait to hear what you''ll have to say.

Haven...poverty ??

do these kids live in a house with running water ?
do they have electricity in their house?
do they have a toilet in the house?

if the answer is YES to these Qs then you haven''t seen poverty yet.

in 1965 my mom took me to China to visit relatives in our village. we live there for a month. i''ve seen real poverty

 

[fieryred33143]

Date: 8/18/2008 12:41:09 AM
Author: IndyGirl22

Date: 8/18/2008 12:32:16 AM
Author: miraclesrule
Yeah, if I had the choice to react with disdain OR offer to buy the person enough lobster to feed their family a lobster dinner,

I would choose the latter every time. If I ever become the former, I would rather not exist.

Of course, I would also strike up a conversation to learn their story.

True, but the choice I see is between paying a person for a half cart of groceries that could feed their family for a week vs. a few lobsters that will feed them for one meal. Given those choices I would choose the former everytime.

Is it my business what is in another's shopping cart when I am paying for part of it? If not, then why are tobacco and alcohol prohibited? I'm not trying to sound like a b*tch, but I think a line has to be drawn somewhere. To me, it's not about being politically correct (?), but about being fiscally responsible. I really don't get why those of us who had a problem with foodstamp lobster were labelled as not caring about disadvantaged people & unknowledgeable about their everyday lives (an assumption in itself)...there is such a thing as responsible decision-making, especially when children are involved. Personally, I would rather my tax dollars go towards bread and luncheon meat than lobster...does that make me a bad person?

ETA: I think that weekend backpack food program is wonderful. I actually have worked with several inner city children through my law school's Teen Court program to keep misled juveniles out of the criminal justice system if possible. I love any program that helps children in ways other than simply giving them money.

I just want to say that I hope no one thought I felt that way about those that got angry with the lobster situation. I don't think its that you guys don't care.

From my POV, I was just trying to explain that w/out knowing that person's situation, it isn't fair to say he was abusing. DF implied he was abusing the system. Who knows? Maybe it was a celebration? Maybe he did purchase the stamps from someone? Maybe all of the groceries needed for the week/month were purchased and the family wanted to use the rest of the money on something good? Maybe he and his family were joking about what you can get with food stamps and asked as a joke?

It just isn't right to assume that everyone on government assitance are people that don't care about working or feeding their families and just want to abuse the system. I think that everyone made a lot of great points on here no matter what end of the spectrum you fall in. But I think that the original post was very ignorant and was made strictly to get a rise out of people (this was even more obvious to me after the two follow-up ghetto neighborhood stories). Job well done I suppose.

ETA: I also think that threads like these are always going to offend people and I almost feel silly for even contributing to it because I knew where it was headed. The subject of gov’t assistance is just one that hits me really close to home and as I mentioned earlier we went through listening to ignorant comments about this all the time so it really is ‘my bad’ if I went off on a tangent that perhaps wasn’t what the OP was about. And yes there are people that abuse the system but for those families that don’t, they deserve a break every once in a while, even if it means a little lobster every now and then. I’m sure that those families know that if they dish out the money for this “luxury” item know very well that they will have to stretch the rest of the money.
I suppose that turkey for Thanksgiving would also be considered a luxury when they could very well eat Spam and eggs.

 

[HollyS]

Date: 8/18/2008 12:41:59 AM
Author: Elmorton
After working with people who have grown up in poverty and raised themselves from their bootstraps so they can go to college, let me tell you that I''m perfectly happy to have my taxes raised because yes, the money is needed more for them than it is my future children.

The line in Haven''s post that got to me was ''I realize that all of the privileges I currently enjoy in my life are in direct proportion with the socioeconomic class to which I was born.'' If only more people truly could understand this. In fact, I never truly understood until I had to answer questions from my students about how I''m 25 and teaching in a college classroom. The truth is that I''m there because my parents, my grandparents, and their parents paved the way - it really has very little to do with the work on my part. The effort I put forth in school is basically the smallest piece of the puzzle that got me to where I am today. Poverty works on the same cycle. People really don''t have much of a choice about their future when you really look at it.

And, I suppose if we really want to get into some nice slippery slope arguments, I could say that we could vote for McCain if we want to adopt India''s caste system.

In regard to women having children they can''t afford - if my middle-class, graduate-educated friends and I are having a hard time finding affordable birth control, I''d imagine that impoverished people have an even harder time procuring it. Perhaps if birth control was a more affordable option than having a child, we''d have less unwanted pregnancies in this country. I find it disgusting that the same people who complain about young, poor women having too many children are the same who complain about planned parenthood and sex education in schools. Every child deserves to be born into arms where she or he is loved and cared for - and affordable birth control is a step in that direction.

In regard to the original question about lobster - why shouldn''t a person or family on assistance be able to get it? It''s not crack or booze or even really ALL that bad for you. It''s a natural food. DH and I have scraped by in the past few months, but one thing we never sacrificed was having good food because we valued it. We valued meals together and we wanted to learn to make restaurant quality meals without going out. I''m really proud of what we did. So if lobster fits in a family''s budget on government assistance, so be it. I actually think that it''s AWESOME that a family would be able to try new and different foods while on government assistance, and I''d be glad for my tax money to go for that.

There is affordable birth control for unmarried mothers having baby after baby, almost all of them by different fathers . . . .it''s called keeping one''s panties on. Or, do you have some silly argument that sex is their right and privilege, too? How about they forgo their right and privilege of sexual expression and try a little self esteem and self control instead? AND do what is right for the children they already have. Hmmmm?

We are NOT talking about ordinary families having difficulties here; or loving mothers doting on the children they bring into the world.

And lobster is not a ''new and different'' food to try. If you don''t live where it''s fresh and plentiful, it''s expensive. And a stupid choice for someone on ''assistance''.

 

[OUpearlgirl]

Date: 8/18/2008 12:59:38 AM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 8/17/2008 10:16:26 PM
Author: Haven



Poverty affects more than a person's regular diet. If only that lobster dinner could act as a substitute for all of the opportunities that person's children are missing out on in the rest of their lives, that would be a blessing.

And then go back for a second year. And a third, etc. etc.

Then come back and talk about how entitled these abusers of welfare really are. Then tell me that poverty is really just a myth, that these are just people who are too lazy to work, or who LOVE the situation that they're in. Please. I can't wait to hear what you'll have to say.

Haven...poverty ??

do these kids live in a house with running water ?
do they have electricity in their house?
do they have a toilet in the house?

if the answer is YES to these Qs then you haven't seen poverty yet.

in 1965 my mom took me to China to visit relatives in our village. we live there for a month. i've seen real poverty

DF, why does it have to be a contest of who has seen the worst poverty?

I've built cinder block homes for families in Mexico who lived in cardboard houses... Do I win? I'm sorry for any one in any form of poverty, at any level. I don't think it's fair to say Haven hasn't seen poverty just because there's a chance some of her students have running water or electricity. Just because these children are not the poorest in the world does not mean they are not suffering.

 

[beebrisk]

Date: 8/18/2008 1:00:57 AM
Author: HollyS

Date: 8/18/2008 12:41:59 AM

Author: Elmorton

After working with people who have grown up in poverty and raised themselves from their bootstraps so they can go to college, let me tell you that I''m perfectly happy to have my taxes raised because yes, the money is needed more for them than it is my future children.


The line in Haven''s post that got to me was ''I realize that all of the privileges I currently enjoy in my life are in direct proportion with the socioeconomic class to which I was born.'' If only more people truly could understand this. In fact, I never truly understood until I had to answer questions from my students about how I''m 25 and teaching in a college classroom. The truth is that I''m there because my parents, my grandparents, and their parents paved the way - it really has very little to do with the work on my part. The effort I put forth in school is basically the smallest piece of the puzzle that got me to where I am today. Poverty works on the same cycle. People really don''t have much of a choice about their future when you really look at it.


And, I suppose if we really want to get into some nice slippery slope arguments, I could say that we could vote for McCain if we want to adopt India''s caste system.


In regard to women having children they can''t afford - if my middle-class, graduate-educated friends and I are having a hard time finding affordable birth control, I''d imagine that impoverished people have an even harder time procuring it. Perhaps if birth control was a more affordable option than having a child, we''d have less unwanted pregnancies in this country. I find it disgusting that the same people who complain about young, poor women having too many children are the same who complain about planned parenthood and sex education in schools. Every child deserves to be born into arms where she or he is loved and cared for - and affordable birth control is a step in that direction.


In regard to the original question about lobster - why shouldn''t a person or family on assistance be able to get it? It''s not crack or booze or even really ALL that bad for you. It''s a natural food. DH and I have scraped by in the past few months, but one thing we never sacrificed was having good food because we valued it. We valued meals together and we wanted to learn to make restaurant quality meals without going out. I''m really proud of what we did. So if lobster fits in a family''s budget on government assistance, so be it. I actually think that it''s AWESOME that a family would be able to try new and different foods while on government assistance, and I''d be glad for my tax money to go for that.

There is affordable birth control for unmarried mothers having baby after baby, almost all of them by different fathers . . . .it''s called keeping one''s panties on. Or, do you have some silly argument that sex is their right and privilege, too? How about they forgo their right and privilege of sexual expression and try a little self esteem and self control instead? AND do what is right for the children they already have. Hmmmm?


We are NOT talking about ordinary families having difficulties here; or loving mothers doting on the children they bring into the world.



And lobster is not a ''new and different'' food to try. If you don''t live where it''s fresh and plentiful, it''s expensive. And a stupid choice for someone on ''assistance''.

Bless you, Holly S!

Trust me, if money is tight next week, I''m scratching the lobster, champagne and even (sadly) the rare French truffles off my shopping list! Some people are entitled. I myself, take a little personal responsibility and at the very least, try to make smart choices at the checkout counter.

Forgive me for thinking others should do the same...I know it''s wrong and hateful and consummately non-compassionate!

 

[fieryred33143]

Well bee, next time you are at the checkout counter and making your decisions of what to buy versus what not to buy, look around you and see if anyone is paying attention to your cart or even cares. As opposed to those families on assistance that have an entire store of people looking and pointing when they decide that this week they’re going to splurge on Kellogg’s cereal instead of the $1 bag of cereal…you know as a little treat for the kids. Or that they’re going to get the deli cheese for the first week of school instead of the gov’t cheese. Or that *God forbid* they’re going to treat their family to a nice meal instead of the usual rice/beans/chicken meal.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 8/17/2008 10:24:40 PM
Author: IndyGirl22

Date: 8/17/2008 10:19:20 PM
Author: blondebunny

Date: 8/17/2008 10:13:48 PM
Author: MC
this entire thread is annoying. Haven''t you posted that you''re supported by your wife???? Many times, I recall.

not to be rude, but if your annoyed by it, then why do you keep posting in it? You could simply ignore it?? and I dont really see what the comment about how he''s supported by his wife has anything to do with the OP...

I agree blondebunny! If you are annoyed by this ''drama post,'' stop clicking on it & reading it! I like reading different viewpoints on the topic & posting my own. I guess it''s okay to judge DF for his feelings.

Who cares if he is ''supported by [his] wife''? I guess people who don''t earn a paycheck can''t comment on the state of welfare in the U.S.

ETA: I don''t recall DF saying anything about ''welfare queens''...I don''t agree with everything he has posted, but instead of posting their own feelings on the subject I feel like some people are just focusing on attacking DF.

ladies don''t worry about hurting my feelings, cuz nothing you say would even bother me.

as for MC....everytime i see her post it always reminds me of the time she SMASHED her TV with a sledge hammer b/c her son was watching too much TV. her TV smashing thread was one of thee most menorable thread on PS.

 

[crown1]

not that anyone here is listening to me but if the us does not wake up and smell the coffee there won''t be enough jobs here to collect enough taxes to give assistance to anyone. we are all only one day away from poverty. no one is immune. we all need to try to keep the jobs that are producing our goods here and be happy to work and make a living. the poor people in china are making progress and we are sleeping and fighting with each other.

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 8/18/2008 1:25:12 AM
Author: fieryred33143
Well bee, next time you are at the checkout counter and making your decisions of what to buy versus what not to buy, look around you and see if anyone is paying attention to your cart or even cares. As opposed to those families on assistance that have an entire store of people looking and pointing when they decide that this week they’re going to splurge on Kellogg’s cereal instead of the $1 bag of cereal…you know as a little treat for the kids. Or that they’re going to get the deli cheese for the first week of school instead of the gov’t cheese. Or that *God forbid* they’re going to treat their family to a nice meal instead of the usual rice/beans/chicken meal.

Fieryred - I didn''t have a problem with your post in particular, I just felt that some people were construing some posts on here as a choice between no foodstamps vs. foodstamp lobster & to me, that wasn''t the issue. I just thought some posters thought that anti-foodstamp lobster (LOL) posters had no perspective on poverty in America when they do. Of course I would not disapprove of helping those in need who need it & who will use it wisely. I appreciate hearing your personal experiences on the topic & you definitely had something to contribute so thanks! However, I don''t think families on assistance have people actively checking their shopping carts to see what they have bought, especially b/c nowadays it is unlikely that anyone knows who is on assistance, but like I said earlier, if someone wants to buy something with their own money I don''t think it''s anyone''s business but since it is technically funded by other people''s money I would just hope that responsible choices are made for the sake of those families. IMHO, turkey on Thanksgiving = responsible; lobster for no reason = irresponsible. That is a judgment of sorts on my part, but it is my opinion just like anyone else''s here & I would like to think that I at least have the right to express it w/o being labeled as "annoying." I understand what you are saying & I think you make some valid points, my parents just taught me that if you wanted nice things then you worked until you could afford them yourself...whenever that may be.

 

[Anna0499]

Date: 8/18/2008 1:30:57 AM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 8/17/2008 10:24:40 PM
Author: IndyGirl22

I agree blondebunny! If you are annoyed by this 'drama post,' stop clicking on it & reading it! I like reading different viewpoints on the topic & posting my own. I guess it's okay to judge DF for his feelings.

Who cares if he is 'supported by [his] wife'? I guess people who don't earn a paycheck can't comment on the state of welfare in the U.S.

ETA: I don't recall DF saying anything about 'welfare queens'...I don't agree with everything he has posted, but instead of posting their own feelings on the subject I feel like some people are just focusing on attacking DF.

ladies don't worry about hurting my feelings, cuz nothing you say would even bother me.

as for MC....everytime i see her post it always reminds me of the time she SMASHED her TV with a sledge hammer b/c her son was watching too much TV. her TV smashing thread was one of thee most menorable thread on PS.

Haha I know DF! I just wanted to point out the funny dynamic that it was not okay to give opinions (aka judge) about foodstamp lobster, but it was okay to give opinions (aka judge) concerning your lifestyle & feelings.

 

[rockzilla]

Just read this article, thought it would be really interesting given the topic:

http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2008/08/18/heather_ryan/index.html

"Our cupboard was bare

I had a master''s degree. I had a job. But to feed my three children, I had to swallow my pride and go to a soup kitchen."

 

[beebrisk]

Date: 8/18/2008 1:25:12 AM
Author: fieryred33143
Well bee, next time you are at the checkout counter and making your decisions of what to buy versus what not to buy, look around you and see if anyone is paying attention to your cart or even cares. As opposed to those families on assistance that have an entire store of people looking and pointing when they decide that this week they’re going to splurge on Kellogg’s cereal instead of the $1 bag of cereal…you know as a little treat for the kids. Or that they’re going to get the deli cheese for the first week of school instead of the gov’t cheese. Or that *God forbid* they’re going to treat their family to a nice meal instead of the usual rice/beans/chicken meal.

There''s a young woman that works for my company. She is 26 years old. She has 3 out-of-wedlock children. There are 2 daddies. One of those daddies is in jail.

She receives Section 8 (subsidized) housing and food stamps and will not work more than 30 hours per week for fear that her benefits will be taken away (such is the genius of the system).

In the meantime, every day at lunch she runs out to smoke several cigarettes. I live in NY where cigarettes are now close to $10/pack. She also spends a great deal of time typing away on her TMobile Sidekick.

And you know what? It makes me angry. Very angry on many levels.

She has three fatherless children. She will not work longer hours because the government will stop her entitlements.

She is taking food out of her own kids mouths by buying cigarettes!!! This should make anyone angry. And it should make you angry too, because you are paying for it. Over and over again.

The welfare system has been in place over 50 years and look at us! Nothing has changed. In fact, it''s worse!

Welfare was meant to be a ''leg up'', not a lifestyle!

If welfare worked to end the cycle then I''d be all for it. But history has shown that it doesn''t. 40+ years and several generations later we are still in the same boat.

I work over 40 hours a week, but I only get paid starting on Wednesday morning. From Monday morning until then, any money I''ve made goes to the government in taxes. When I see someone making foolish choices that hurts her own children, and I am paying for many of those choices, I have the right as a citizen of this great country to get angry.

If you cannot afford children, don''t have them. If you can''t afford lobster, don''t eat it. If you can''t be responsible don''t ask me to pay for it.

PS- I love lobster. I can''t afford it. I don''t buy it.

 

[fieryred33143]

Date: 8/18/2008 2:08:38 AM
Author: beebrisk

Date: 8/18/2008 1:25:12 AM
Author: fieryred33143
Well bee, next time you are at the checkout counter and making your decisions of what to buy versus what not to buy, look around you and see if anyone is paying attention to your cart or even cares. As opposed to those families on assistance that have an entire store of people looking and pointing when they decide that this week they’re going to splurge on Kellogg’s cereal instead of the $1 bag of cereal…you know as a little treat for the kids. Or that they’re going to get the deli cheese for the first week of school instead of the gov’t cheese. Or that *God forbid* they’re going to treat their family to a nice meal instead of the usual rice/beans/chicken meal.

There''s a young woman that works for my company. She is 26 years old. She has 3 out-of-wedlock children. There are 2 daddies. One of those daddies is in jail.

She receives Section 8 (subsidized) housing and food stamps and will not work more than 30 hours per week for fear that her benefits will be taken away (such is the genius of the system).

In the meantime, every day at lunch she runs out to smoke several cigarettes. I live in NY where cigarettes are now close to $10/pack. She also spends a great deal of time typing away on her TMobile Sidekick.

And you know what? It makes me angry. Very angry on many levels.

She has three fatherless children. She will not work longer hours because the government will stop her entitlements.

She is taking food out of her own kids mouths by buying cigarettes!!! This should make anyone angry. And it should make you angry too, because you are paying for it. Over and over again.

The welfare system has been in place over 50 years and look at us! Nothing has changed. In fact, it''s worse!

Welfare was meant to be a ''leg up'', not a lifestyle!

If welfare worked to end the cycle then I''d be all for it. But history has shown that it doesn''t. 40+ years and several generations later we are still in the same boat.

I work over 40 hours a week, but I only get paid starting on Wednesday morning. From Monday morning until then, any money I''ve made goes to the government in taxes. When I see someone making foolish choices that hurts her own children, and I am paying for many of those choices, I have the right as a citizen of this great country to get angry.

If you cannot afford children, don''t have them. If you can''t afford lobster, don''t eat it. If you can''t be responsible don''t ask me to pay for it.

PS- I love lobster. I can''t afford it. I don''t buy it.

I agree 100% with everything you just said.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 8/17/2008 11:17:11 PM
Author: purrfectpear
Personally I don''t care what they spend their food allotment on. If they splurge on lobster then they better be good at stretching it for the rest of the month

That said, there ARE still abuses of government support (unfortunately). My former SIL is a Los Angeles county social worker and she had some stories to tell that would amaze you. It''s not what they do with the support, it''s how they learn to work the system by having one child after another. I''m sure some people think ''every child is a gift from God'' but personally I would like to think that after the first 3 or 4 on welfare, the mommy would learn to use BC or something. Multiple pregancies can keep your welfare going for a good 20 years or so. I don''t think that the people who intentionally work the system represent more than 10% of the whole. I wouldn''t lump everyone in the same bag as a cheater.

thats another thing that bothers me about the welfare system....

if my wife and i decided to have another child (not that we''re,too old

) we would need to talk it over to see if we can afford to support another child, but if we were on welfare we know the taxpayers will support the child. sad to see an avg working couple that wants 2-3 kids may not able to afford having them,but if you''re on welfare you can have 1/2 dozen kids. something is wrong with the system.

 

[akmiss]

Date: 8/17/2008 9:02:28 PM
Author: Dancing Fire
fiery and wishful...

let me tell you a story.this was before the credit card system...i have a postmen friend that delivers mail in the getto area.on the first day of each month (welfare check day) he would get so scare to deliver mail into those apartment complex. the welfare recipients would surround him, saying....you better have our checks or else you ain''t walk out of here alive.

i mean this is B.S the taxpayers don''t owe them anything. they just sit at home waiting to get paid for doing nothing.

another guy said to him....i hate to be delivering mail in this 105* heat, it sure feels good with this cold beer in my hand. my friend said...if he had a gun he would of shoot his AS.

i feel sorry for those people that are working for $7 an hr whom probably couldn''t afford to buy lobster for dinner and the ones that don''t work can afford to eat lobster for dinner. something is wrong with our welfare system.

Are we talking about welfare or food stamps? Most people who make $7 an hour qualify for food stamps but will not receive cash assistance. They also pay taxes too. I once read that less than 10% of what you pay in taxes goes to all social programs. I am more angered by the trillions of $$$ wasted overseas, jacked-up gas prices, and a sluggish economy than what a poor person chooses to buy with his food stamps. I don''t know this person''s life story and it is not my position to judge. I do know a little about compassion and hope the best for all people (even if they don''t pay taxes.) I am not a bleeding heart but we are all in this together and it is better to live and let live then feel bitterness or *gasp* hatred.

I predict that many more working people will be turning to food stamps to feed their families.

 

[oobiecoo]

I wanted to comment because I have experience with welfare. My brother and his family were on welfare for QUITE a while because of pure laziness and irresponsibility. He had a dog but wasn''t allowed to buy dog food with food stamps... so he bought the dog STEAK. They were on food stamps for a while but sure didn''t have a hard time finding the money for video games, beer, satellite tv, cigarettes.... or drugs. I also grew up right on the edge of a very poor neighborhood and knew several people families who were on welfare but ALWAYS sat on their front porch drinking beer and talking about their satellite tv.

I totally know that not everyone abuses the welfare system, but from my experience it seems that almost half does take advantage in some way (obviously I don''t know the facts though). And seeing this abuse has made me bitter toward the system and toward many people who are on it. I would have had the same reaction as the OP''s if I had seen someone try to purchase lobster with food stamps. I can understand wanting to have a nice meal for a special celebration, but steak would have been a much more responsible purchase and still a bit of a splurge.

And as for welfare recipients being required to have a job or be actively searching.... that''s not always the case depending on who your caseworker is. Many caseworkers will call up the individual and simple ask if they are LOOKING for a job... the person says "yes" and the caseworker says "Ok" and doesn''t require any proof.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 8/17/2008 11:59:24 PM
Author: miraclesrule
::::::::::::: biting my tongue :::::::::::::::::::::

look out miracle...the Republicans are coming to get ya.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 8/18/2008 12:22:50 AM
Author: beebrisk

LOL Holly...

Indeed, I''ve never been one to hide behind my conservative views, even at the risk of being called ''judgmental, hateful, intolerant'' and so on and so on....I''ve heard it all...I can take it !

As I mentioned earlier, I work in the South Bronx and see the abuses first hand. The sale of food stamps to purchase drugs, young woman who choose to get pregnant (over and over again) in order to collect a check from the government instead of working. It''s a reality and a fact of life and just another thing that that the liberal viewpoint glosses over with misplaced ''compassion''.

Welfare was meant to ''assist'', not to sustain for an infinite amount of time, generation after generation.

Thanks for the shout-out Holly. I guess I''m a born pot-stirer!

BB

where have you been all these yrs.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 8/17/2008 10:34:59 PM
Author: princesss
Haven, I really wish I could give all teachers a big

But since I can''t, I want you know that you should get one every day. Really and truly, the work you do is amazing.

Wishful, everything I read about you makes me certain that you would be a fascinating person to know IRL.

/end threadjack

agree !! i believe teachers are way under paid.

 

[VRBeauty]

Back in the day... I considered a position with CORO, a leadership training program that generally places recent college graduates with community groups. Part of my compensation would have been in food stamps. A friend, a lawyer who was working with neighborhood legal assistance as part of a Americorp/Vista type program, was paid partially in food stamps.

I''m just sayin''....

 

[TravelingGal]

There is a poem called "Grocer''s Children" that goes something like this,

"The grocer''s children eat day-old bread, moldy cakes and cheese, soft black bananas on stale shredded wheat, weeviled rice, their plates heaped high with wilted greens, bruised fruit, surprise treats from unlabeled cans, tainted meat. The grocer''s children never go hungry."

I always remembered this poem because of the "surprise treats from unlabeled cans" bit. I was a grocer''s child for many many years and while it wasn''t as bad as this poem, we did eat a lot of stuff that was on the verge of going bad.

I worked at that store a lot (and hated it). I saw abuse run rampant as well and it perplexed and irked me even when I was that young that we apparently weren''t poor ENOUGH. We couldn''t go to the free health clinic across the street but we couldn''t afford health insurance.

There were plenty of people who needed the help and who were honest. For every 3 of those people there was one who was a bit shady (so there were a LOT of shady people, it seemed.) The thing that I hated to see was people bring in a dollar food stamp and buying something super cheap, like a 10 cent candy. Then you had to give them back change in coin ("real" money). They''d keep doing that and then buy alcohol.

But I guess I''m just biased and sour...eating enough moldy cakes and cheese will get to ya after awhile.

 

[trillionaire]

Gov't peanut butter was gross. Government cheese was pretty damned delicious!

Anyway, if someone had food stamps and could get lobster, and they would rather have that than eat for 4 more days during the week, that is there prerogative. After being hungry for a few days, I bet they would figure out priorities on their own, without outside interference.

the bible says, Judge not, lest ye be judged.

(Sometimes, I am glad to be a heathen!!!

)

ETA: I don't even think lobster tastes that good... lol

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 8/18/2008 2:08:38 AM
Author: beebrisk

Date: 8/18/2008 1:25:12 AM
Author: fieryred33143
Well bee, next time you are at the checkout counter and making your decisions of what to buy versus what not to buy, look around you and see if anyone is paying attention to your cart or even cares. As opposed to those families on assistance that have an entire store of people looking and pointing when they decide that this week they’re going to splurge on Kellogg’s cereal instead of the $1 bag of cereal…you know as a little treat for the kids. Or that they’re going to get the deli cheese for the first week of school instead of the gov’t cheese. Or that *God forbid* they’re going to treat their family to a nice meal instead of the usual rice/beans/chicken meal.

There''s a young woman that works for my company. She is 26 years old. She has 3 out-of-wedlock children. There are 2 daddies. One of those daddies is in jail.

She receives Section 8 (subsidized) housing and food stamps and will not work more than 30 hours per week for fear that her benefits will be taken away (such is the genius of the system).

In the meantime, every day at lunch she runs out to smoke several cigarettes. I live in NY where cigarettes are now close to $10/pack. She also spends a great deal of time typing away on her TMobile Sidekick.

And you know what? It makes me angry. Very angry on many levels.

She has three fatherless children. She will not work longer hours because the government will stop her entitlements.

She is taking food out of her own kids mouths by buying cigarettes!!! This should make anyone angry. And it should make you angry too, because you are paying for it. Over and over again.

The welfare system has been in place over 50 years and look at us! Nothing has changed. In fact, it''s worse!

Welfare was meant to be a ''leg up'', not a lifestyle!

If welfare worked to end the cycle then I''d be all for it. But history has shown that it doesn''t. 40+ years and several generations later we are still in the same boat.

I work over 40 hours a week, but I only get paid starting on Wednesday morning. From Monday morning until then, any money I''ve made goes to the government in taxes. When I see someone making foolish choices that hurts her own children, and I am paying for many of those choices, I have the right as a citizen of this great country to get angry.

If you cannot afford children, don''t have them. If you can''t afford lobster, don''t eat it. If you can''t be responsible don''t ask me to pay for it.

PS- I love lobster. I can''t afford it. I don''t buy it.

Bee

are you running for President in Nov ?

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 8/18/2008 2:41:37 AM
Author: oobiecoo
I wanted to comment because I have experience with welfare. My brother and his family were on welfare for QUITE a while because of pure laziness and irresponsibility. He had a dog but wasn''t allowed to buy dog food with food stamps... so he bought the dog STEAK. They were on food stamps for a while but sure didn''t have a hard time finding the money for video games, beer, satellite tv, cigarettes.... or drugs. I also grew up right on the edge of a very poor neighborhood and knew several people families who were on welfare but ALWAYS sat on their front porch drinking beer and talking about their satellite tv.

I totally know that not everyone abuses the welfare system, but from my experience it seems that almost half does take advantage in some way (obviously I don''t know the facts though). And seeing this abuse has made me bitter toward the system and toward many people who are on it. I would have had the same reaction as the OP''s if I had seen someone try to purchase lobster with food stamps. I can understand wanting to have a nice meal for a special celebration, but steak would have been a much more responsible purchase and still a bit of a splurge.

And as for welfare recipients being required to have a job or be actively searching.... that''s not always the case depending on who your caseworker is. Many caseworkers will call up the individual and simple ask if they are LOOKING for a job... the person says ''yes'' and the caseworker says ''Ok'' and doesn''t require any proof.

well....he might get a nice piece of Rib eye steak along with his lobster for tomorrow nights dinner. if he can afford to buy lobster for dinner then he''s recieving too much assistance from the government.

 

[beebrisk]

Date: 8/18/2008 2:44:38 AM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 8/17/2008 11:59:24 PM

Author: miraclesrule

::::::::::::: biting my tongue :::::::::::::::::::::

look out miracle...the Republicans are coming to get ya.

Yup! Those mean, hateful, judgmental Republicans who have the audacity to believe that that the benefits of living in this wonderful country should require accepting your share of responsibility now matter what end of the economic spectrum you''re on.

So evil, aren''t we?